Benazir Bhutto in Sacramento

ylh;

We are obviously debating at cross wires. Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan is 60 years dead. I am sorry for any unwarranted assumptions I made about your political stance but my posts stay valid. Thanks for the debate.

;-)

Ylh,

Must a certified lunatic such as Zico be replied to, on every single one of his tantrums and vagaries. I think not! I would rather ignore the innocuous buffoon and just read his posts for their sheer amusement value if not for any factual or informational content. I suggest you do the same! and save your breath for people who can think beyond their own nose.

People! would you stop bickering and concentrate on the business at hand. Those with existensial memories should barely recall that the discussion was revolving around the Benazir-Nama written by Mr Ras. Siddique, Madame`s official spokesperson in the bay area. :)

Mille Grazie,

Asim

````Like the whose eye was taken out by Odysseus, the US is going about like a wounded giant and will not be appeased unless it has had its revenge```` (Ayaz Amir quoed by Zico)

One Cyclop Mulla deserves another Cyclop Polyphemus -- this time this Odorous Odysseus with his companions will be vaporized in their caves.

Bombings WILL continue in Holy Ramadan.

Ayaz Amir should not fret -- it may turn out to be a blessing for the barbarian Afghans -- look what happened to the Japanese Odius Odysseus who tried to poke the Giants`s eye -- in Pearl Harbor!!

And finally this gem:



Zico

ylh;

{but what about the Muslims in India... Are they all Pakistanis then? Because they are not! Then are they all Indians? but then Pakistan is Islam and Islam is Pakistan ? so then by your logic Indian Muslims are not Indians}

-That is right ylh, none of Pakistans foreign policies towards India and the world have been guided by the principles of fighting for Islam, Hindu is not a dirty word in Pakistan.`



Ah Pakistan again... the question was not about Pakistan but Indian Muslims... Again like I have said repeatedly I have no problem if people want to associate Pakistan with Islam.

Ah but poor Pakistan obsessed minds!

-YLH

`Seriously dude, tell that to the people in Peshawar,`

But I thought the people of Peshawar were the staunch followers of Frontier Gandhi and the Congress Party? Again I am confused.

Zico,

I was showing how convoluted your logic was. Custodians of Islam or not, we are not debating that. I am a Pakistani, and I am concerned about Pakistan and Pakistan alone. I have no problem with anyone associating Pakistan with Islam, but I think it is a tad bit hypocritical when it comes from people like you who otherwise lay some lofty claims to secularism.

Whatever your assumptions about our perceptions, the truth is that there is no Pakistani in Pakistan who faults Bangladeshis for breaking away. Similarly there is no effort on the part of Pakistanis to reunify Bangladesh with the Union. The `betrayal of Islam` is in Indian imaginations and a Hindu psyche which saw its victory over Pakistan to be hinduism`s great blow to Islam.

You are absolutely right we view India to be Hindu India and hence a threat to Islam but on the question of Pakistan being the representative of Islam, the opinion is mixed. Our whole premise for breaking away logically is that India is Hindu India... so logically it wouldnt make sense for Pakistan to be Islamic Pakistan, but then `Chamberlainism` that Pakistan`s elite has shown knows no boundaries and hence we have the Islamic republic.

To cut the long story short, if Pakistan and Islam are interchangeable why were the Deobani Ulema (the fore runner of the Taliban movement) against the creation of Pakistan? Why was Majlis e Ahrar allied with the Congress? Why was Jamaat e Islami bitterly opposed to Jinnah? Why did the Ulema call Jinnah `Kafir e Azam` and Pakistan `Kafiristan`?

Isnt it ironic that those who didnot participate in the Pan Islamic Khilafat Movement were in the forefronts of the Pakistan Movement.

Your simplistic notions and naive ideas fall apart Zico.

Here is a gem from Ayaz Amirs latest column in the Dawn. I dont always agree with him, but his erudition and eloquency and prose are superb. Dropping Classical Greek mythological references in, what a guy!

..................................................

``Like the Cyclops Polyphemus whose eye was taken out by Odysseus, the US is going about like a wounded giant and will not be appeased unless it has had its revenge``

..................................................

Superb!

;-)

Karakoram;

{This whore allegory seems to be quite popular in India, what with some minister talking about India gyrating her hips to be taken up by the US}

- It was Arundhati Roy the writer. I think she was right. I agree with her.

{Let me know if I`m getting this allegory right}

-You are getting it wrong. America is a bully and wherever she stations her planes and canons ends up in a mess.

{Who knows if Pakistan the whore doesn`t do a good job, India the whore might get her chane to `work the streets`}

-No, Pakistan is doing a good job for now, and she is getting paid very well. What it means for her long term sexual health....lets see. Not a good record so far. Last encounter you had she left you with Kalashnikov culture and highest heroin addiction rate in Asia, and an instinctively moderate society blighted by fundos.

{A final point since India is bigger than Pakistan does that necessarily make her a better whore ?}

- India is actually just a prick-tease. Richard Nixon called Indira a ``b1tch`` and ``whore`` in 1972 when they sailed the seventh fleet into the Bay of Bengal, huffing and puffing unsuccesfully. The Russians left with just a little foreplay, and no full consummation. You on the other hand paid China to do the dirty with a slice of Kashmir, let the Arabs do it for free, and the Americans, well they roll in whenever they feel horny.

Dont get me wrong, I feel sorry for the predicament Pakistan finds itself in, and it is all detrimental to India in the long run. But what can I say? Ok, theek hai, we are all whores. Hope that blunts your anger.

ylh;

{but what about the Muslims in India... Are they all Pakistanis then? Because they are not! Then are they all Indians? but then Pakistan is Islam and Islam is Pakistan ? so then by your logic Indian Muslims are not Indians}

-That is right ylh, none of Pakistans foreign policies towards India and the world have been guided by the principles of fighting for Islam, Hindu is not a dirty word in Pakistan.

Your convoluted response was quite bewildering, I am sure it had an internal logic, but it escapes me entirely.

Seriously dude, tell that to the people in Peshawar, tell it to the ISI, Musharaff et al, that Pakistan is not Islam. The opinion formers, the Maulvis, the Cambridge intellectuals who hate India, the frustrated Mughals, the whole ``not India (read Hindu) paradigm in Pakistan. I would say that Huntingtons Clash of Civilisations theory has been common currency in Pakistani society for a long time viv-a-vis ``Hindu`` India.

My point was about how Pakistan and its institutions and policies are guided by the perception (self proclaimed) that it is the keeper of the flame of Islam on the sub-continent. This is the reasoning that saw Bangladesh as a betrayal of Islam and an act of apostasy, and fuels your faux concern for the Muslims of India and your el-dorado, Kashmir. In all seriousness, lets not be cute about this?

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Killing American troops is `sawab`

Quoted in Ausaf, Maulana Shah Ahmad Noorani of JUP said that all Pakistanis who see American troops anywhere should immediately kill them. If they do so, they will be given sawab (divine reward). He said that this activity of killing the Americans was made farz (duty) by Allah of which he had knowledge. He said in the 12th century AD, Salahuddin Ayubi was Islam`s hero; today it was Osama bin Laden.

Aitchisonians condemn America!

Editor Hamid Mir of Ausaf wrote in his column that CNN reporter Christiane Amanpour was greatly disabused when she interviewed children from Aitchison College Lahore and heard them say that America was unreliable and had eaten up Pakistan`s money which it had paid for the F-16s. They said they condemned the 11 September attack but would condemn Osama bin Laden only when they saw the proof that he had been guilty. The editor asked General Musharraf to add the boys to the 10 percent extremists who oppose him.

Jaish changes name!

According to Ausaf banned organisation Jaish-e-Muhammad led by Osama`s associate Maulana Masood Azhar had changed its name to Tahreekul Furqan. Jaish was created out of Harkat al-Mujahideen which was earlier Harkatul Ansar but was declared terrorist by the United States. Maulana Masood Azhar will be convener of the Tahreekul Furqan while the most powerful Deobandi cleric Mufti Shamzai will be its patron. The change of name was carried out because of the fear that Pakistan would confiscate the accounts of Jaish after Washington declared it terrorist.

Historian gets it wrong!

Famous historian Dr Safdar Mehmood writing in Jang said that an Indian patriot killed the butcher of Jallianwala Bagh, General Dyer, in Britain and was called a terrorist by the British government although for the Indian masses he was a hero. The truth is that Udham Singh did not assassinate General Reginald Dyer in London many years after his killing of hundreds of innocent people in Amritsar. Dyer had meanwhile died as a consequence of high blood pressure. The man Udham Singh killed was Sir Michael O`Dwyer who was governor of Punjab at the time his corps commander Julundhar, Dyer, did his sorry deed in Jallianwala Bagh.

Ads with women not allowed!

According to Khabrain, during a pro-Taliban protest march in Lahore, the processionists blacked out all the women on the hoardings on the city roads with paint and wrote Jehad Jamaat Islami on top to show their anger at the use of women in fuhush (obscene) advertisements.

He is mine!

According to Khabrain, poetess Rukhsana Nazi said that politician Malik Ghulam Mustafa Khar was a charming person who could possess any woman he liked. She said that once when he gave her his calling card another woman started fighting with her saying, `He is mine`.

Bush will leave office!

Daily Khabrain quoted a number of astrologers, including a lady called M.M. Bengalan, as saying that Osama would attack America next year too and that he would not be killed because he is protected with ghaibi taqat (invisible power). He would return to an Arab country after a successful war against America. Astrologer Sheikh Tariq Iqbal said in daily Pakistan that after November 15 the American invasion of Afghanistan will bog down and the decline and fall of President Bush will begin. After the American troops run away from Afghanistan, Bush will leave presidency. According to the astrologer, Mulla Umar will be in great difficulty and might even give way to a new government, but if he survived 2001, then victory would be his in the following years.

New justice in Sindh

According to Juhud-e-Haq monthly one Sardar Sher Muhammad Rind hands down novel verdicts for people living on his land. One Yusuf Rind went to the house of Mirza Rind and tried to rape his wife. Sher Muhammad Rind arranged for Yusuf to walk on fire. Before walking on fire, Yusuf`s feet were covered with blood of goat. After walking on fire, his feet were examined and were found unburnt. Yusuf was let go free because of the miracle. On other occasions, Sardar Sher Muhammad had thrown people into a tank full of crocodiles and if the culprit was not eaten up he was allowed to go free.

Have gun will travel!

According to Juhud-e-Haq, Darra Adam Khel of Pakistan`s Tribal Area had 40,000 families linked to the industry of making guns. Children were either not allowed to go to school or were inducted into manufacture of guns after school hours. After two years, all children became expert gun makers and got Rs 20 per day as salary. The tribes living in Darra Adam Khel are Zughunkhel, Akhurwal, Sheraki, Turchapar and Boshnikhel. Other trades included opium, heroin and alcohol. All boys stopped education after primary school. They also travelled with trucks and sometimes ended up in Karachi.

Sectarian mayhem in Karachi

Monthly Juhud-e-Haq gave the following account of sectarian killings in Karachi in which 14 people were killed in two months, August and September 2001. August 3, Dawat Islami (Barelvi Green Turbans) member Yusuf was killed while hoisting party flag. August 9, a Shia was killed in Eidgah area. August 13, three members of Dawat Islami (Barelvi Green Turban) were gunned down. The same day Qayyum Baba was killed in Orangi. The same day MQM`s Nasiruddin was killed. August 19 Dr Riaz, prominent Shia doctor, was done to death. August 21 Shia Jinn Baba Pir was killed. On August 24 Sikandar Awan was killed in Landhi while on September 10 Altaf Hussain was killed on University Road. On September 3, Allama Ali Hasnain Naqvi was shot near Arshi Cinema. On 12 September Maulana Razi Haider Naqvi was killed on Mehreen Chowk. He and his son were shot. On first September three people were killed the same day. Most of the people killed were Shia.

Mulla Umar will die!

Astrologer Mutiur Rehman speaking to daily Pakistan said that America will conquer Afghanistan and Mulla Umar will become shaheed while Osama bin Laden will escape. A lot of Americans will get killed, but Pakistan will come out of the crisis unharmed. Astrologer Fazal Karim said Osama will also become shaheed betrayed by a close friend with light eyes, black beard and a mole on his face. A girl will also become informer on him.

Masood Azhar flees Bahawalpur

According to Nawa-e-Waqt, chief of Jaish-e-Muhammad, renamed Tahreekul Furqan, Maulana Masood Azhar left his home in Bahawalpur along with his brother for an unknown destination. His militia`s name had already been changed by his patron Mufti Shamzai of Banuri Mosque in Karachi. His brother had participated in the hijacking of an aircraft that had led to Masood Azhar`s release from an Indian jail.

Where did the dollars go?

According to Jang, 60 billion dollars came into Pakistan during the last Afghan war but no one knew how the money was spent. The dollars poured in from the US, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and the rich Arabs to fund the Afghan jehad. The question is what will happen to the money that Pakistan will get this time around for joining the world coalition against terrorism?

Osama is no prophet!

Quoted in Ausaf Allama Tahirul Qadiri said that Osama bin Laden was no prophet that millions should die for him. He said American attack on the cities of Afghanistan was no terrorism, and if the Afghan civilians were dying the fault was Mulla Umar`s. He said it was no jehad to blow up buildings and kill innocent people in America. Ausaf also reported Dr Israr Ahmad from Lahore that after America`s attack on Afghanistan the qital (massacre) of Americans and the British had become farz (obligatory) on the Muslims.

Taliban and royal ladies

Editor Ausaf Hamid Mir wrote in his column that great Pakistani soldier of Islam active in Herat Colonel (Retd) Sultan Amir Imam (once Pakistan`s consul general in Herat but now fighting for Taliban on his own) told him that the ladies of the royal family of Afghanistan resident in Herat told him that while they used the veil in front of all men they did not do so in front of the Taliban boys because they were so pious. They said if the Taliban went away the old mujahideen will return to dishonour them.

Gailani`s infamous commander

Revealed by editor Ausaf in his column, Pir Syed Ahmad Gailani, a leader of the old Afghan jehad was putting together an anti-Taliban moderate leadership in Peshawar. This was understandable because he hated the Taliban because Mulla Umar had put one of his right hand man Gul Agha to death because Gul was found to have married a boy in Kandahar and had spread havoc in the city with his homosexual pursuits.

Moderate plots against Taliban

According to Ausaf, moderate Afghans were busy plotting against the Taliban in the various cities of Pakistan. Pir Gailani and Commander Abdul Haq were active in Peshawar and Gul Shirazi in Quetta were spearheading this conspiracy and were spreading rumours that foreign minister Vakil Ahmad Mutawakkil and Maulvi Abdul Kabir had turned moderate and were joining the anti-Taliban movement.

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RELEASE NAVEED QAMAR NOW ! ! !



From Dawn today


PPP, govt `very close` to finalizing deal


By Rafaqat Ali

ISLAMABAD, Nov 8: The government and PPP are reportedly ``very close`` to finalizing a deal under which Ms Benazir Bhutto will be able to come back to the country without any fear of going to jail and Asif Ali Zardari, imprisoned since 1996, will come out of jail, Dawn has learnt from reliable sources.

Negotiations are still going on to finalize the deal. After PPP team`s meeting with President Pervez Musharraf on Monday, PPP leaders sounded very ``optimistic.``

According to an insider dealing with legal affairs of the party, it has been agreed that Ms Bhutto would not be arrested on her return.

She would file an application in the Accountability Court, Rawalpindi, demanding that her conviction on the charges of non-appearance in the court should be recalled.

The government, the sources said, had given an assurance that the application would be accepted and conviction order passed under section 31 of the NAB Ordinance recalled.

Ms Bhutto, facing four corruption cases, was convicted in April 1999 by an Ehtesab Bench headed by Justice Malik Mohammad Qayyum on the charges of awarding pre-shipment contract to a Swiss firm for personal considerations.

The conviction was not only set aside but also the judge who had handed down the judgement, had to leave the judicial institution after being declared ``biased`` by the SC on the appeals of Ms Bhutto and Asif Ali Zardari.

Mr Zardari, behind the bar since 1996, is carrying no conviction so far. His conviction in pre-shipment case in 1999, was set aside by the Supreme Court and matter was remanded to the competent court.

The accountability court, however, has taken up the case but it is still at ``notice stage``.

There are a total of 12 cases against Mr Zardari. Six pertain to his alleged corruption and six others are criminal cases, including four murder cases.

He has been granted bail by courts in 10 cases so far and the bail application in the 11th case will be taken up on Nov 23.

The chances of his getting bail from the Lahore High Court, Rawalpindi bench, in the 11th case, (Polo ground reference), are also bright.

The other case in which Mr Zardari has not been granted bail is about Narcotics, which is pending in the sessions court, Lahore. The bail application is pending for one year in the case and if the deal is struck Mr Zardari would be given bail in that case also.

In murder cases, Mr Zardari was granted bail in Justice Nizam, Murtaza Bhutto and secretary Alam Baloch`s cases. He is also facing a case of suicide.

Soon after the PPP leaders` meeting with President Pervez Musharraf, Hakim Ali Zardari, father of Asif Ali Zardari, was shifted to his house.

The other beneficiaries of the deal would be Naveed Qamar, former chairman of Privatisation Commission, and Syed Yousaf Raza Gillani, former Speaker of the National Assembly.

Mr Qamar is behind the bar for the last two years, but his case is still nowhere and he would be out of the jail on bail. Similarly, Mr Yousaf Raza Gillani, who held a very important constitutional post, is being prosecuted for misuse of official telephone facility.

ylh

Post whatever you want by * reputed * authors like Bhim Singh and *reputed * columnists like Udaykumar. Your hands and hands of your tinpot military dictators are red with the blood of 70,002 Kashmiri men, women, and children.

shah exclamation marker !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is funny. Pakistanis say whatever silliness talking of Islam but when an Indian says something you begin bleating like bearded bakra about Indian Muslims.

Zico # 179

``Pimps are misogynistic brutes. They keep their women in line through violence. It is an exploitative relationship between a bully and a weakling with no self esteem.``

Sir! you seem to have a great expertise on the subject matter:))

Regards.

Re: ylh

Saying that Pakistan is for Muslims and only Muslims and is an Islamic republic which hates secularism and democracy has little to do with Indian Muslims. The latter chose what they wanted and in doing so, proved the TNT to be bull$hit. Having said that, good riddance that you Mullahs who now occupy Pakistan left...last thing India needed or needs. Good luck to you and your Taliban buddies.

Karakoram and Zico,

Pardon my intrusion, but your exchange reminded me of a discussion that is taking place re: the US and bin laden, Saddam and the Taliban.

I agree that the genderized prostitute trope has been a popular one and it is based on a concept of power and degradation. Another one has developed and it is equally disturbing; that of the Saddam/bin laden/Afghanistan getting ``assaulted`` sexually by the US. Some examples would be the various cartoons, t shirts, illustrations communicating this idea. Someone mentioned a drawn picture distributed thru the Associated Press in which a military worker is working on a missile that has the message ``Hijack this, f/ *s``. Interesting and confusing messages; firstly, that the assertion that the people responsible for the Wtc attack and the Taliban are gay, and gayness is equated with criminality. The second is a bit more confusing; what role does that leave for the ``straight`` US to take when they send these phallic shaped bombs framed in these homophobic words? Apparently, according to one of my professors, several gay rights orgs have been interrogating these metaphors.

regards