A Journey Into Afghanistan

Beautiful write up!

It was engaging and affecting. Some paragraphs made the hair on my neck stand up, even tho i usually find the history of conquest and conquerors dry and dull.

As someone else said, it would be interesting to see what the pathans think of indians. Tagore made the pathans a gentle people to all of us. It is dangerous to equate political hostility and cultural & civilizational hostility. I hope that the pathans don`t see indians as their enemy.

satyavadi #28

Thanks. Yes I did read Khaled Ahmed in the Friday Times. He has been outdoing himself week after week in the last month or so, and IMO, his clarity and courage are truly admirable.

This is a very one-sided article if one gives reality the upper hand and adds reasoning.
I would suggest that the author read a bit more about the history of the Northern Alliance and the number of ``Promised Lands`` they have defined in the past two decades.
India can help somewhat in Afghanistan and should
continue to assist ALL Afghans when and where it can. It should not make the same mistake as Pakistan and rely on the etnic rivalry between the Pashtuns and everyone else.
And if any of the 2.5 million plus Afghan refugees in Pakistan want to move to the ``promised land`` of India and meet Shah Rukh and Raveena, the Government of Pakistan should assist them in making the journey. The economic burden of taking care of so many refugees has been staggering in Pakistan.

Ras

(Heck I would not mind meeting Raveena either)

Zico (plus other reactions at Chowk)

You completely missed the point. That was a very angry and defensive reply to just pointing out a fact.

Let me spell out what I think anyone who has read me previously at Chowk would deduce. I am not defending Pakistan. I am only critiquing the rationality of the argument put forth by the writer at Hindustantimes. I cant help but notice the self-congratulatory undertone of reactions in the Indian Press. Yes all the emotions I mention are true—can anyone deny that?. The fact that these articles are written without objectivity/compassion/empathy, reduces their quality. At the earliest opportunity I want to write an article about the coverage of these events in India, Pakistan and America which might help to soothe your sense of umbrage at pointing out the obvious.

From todays NYT: ``Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, a nuclear engineer who was one of three Pakistani scientists arrested last week because of their suspected connections with the Taliban, is an expert on nuclear weapons production, but also a fundamentalist Muslim with unorthodox scientific views, scientists familiar with the Pakistani scientific circles said today...Mr. Bashiruddin Mahmood has published papers concerning djinni, which are described in the Koran as beings made of fire. He has proposed that these entities could be tapped to solve the energy crisis, and he has written on how to understand the mechanics of life after death.``

Ha! Ha! Mad scientists are bad enough, Mad Mullah Scientists are something else. Let us hope they put him away in a nuthouse and throw away the key.

Sadhana #22:

Couldn`t have said it better myself. Did you read about the direct Pakistani involvement in the Bombay blasts in the latest Khaled Ahmed article in The Friday Times?

Satyavadi

PAKISTAN A TERRORIST STATE: FROM THE HORSE`S MOUTH

RESPECTED PAKISTANI WRITER KHALED AHMED WRITES IN THE FRIDAY TIMES ABOUT PAKISTANI TERRORISM IN INDIA

Please go to www.thefridaytimes.com for the whole article.

Here is an excerpt:

[[[That`s what happened in 1993 when a certain Brigadier Kamal Alam that India would simply collapse after the Bombay mayhem. In the event, it turned out to be another Pearl Harbour, a act-of-anger operation that gained Pakistan nothing, except that General Javed Nasir got the sack soon after the Nawaz Sharif government fell. The man who fronted the operation, Indian underworld king Dawood Ibrahim, was bequeathed to Pakistan by the agency as the most negative fallout of the ill-conceived operation. In 2001, he is perhaps the most powerful man in Karachi owning large estates and keeping army and police personnel on his payroll.]]]]

Saima Shah #16::

[[[[I am so disgusted with Hindustan Time`s coverage of the issues that I have left reading it. It was embarassing to see the glee and joy at the opportunity to call Pakistan a terrorist state. The self righteousness was disgusting]]]].

Dont believe Hindustan Times, how about the The Friday Times.

Here is an esteemed Pakistani writer Khaled Ahmed

admitting to Pakistan`s involvement in the Bombay blasts of 1993. Read the article before its offline since TFT doesnot archive its articles.

Here`s an excerpt for you:::

[[That`s what happened in 1993 when a certain Brigadier Kamal Alam that India would simply collapse after the Bombay mayhem. In the event, it turned out to be another Pearl Harbour, a act-of-anger operation that gained Pakistan nothing, except that General Javed Nasir got the sack soon after the Nawaz Sharif government fell. The man who fronted the operation, Indian underworld king Dawood Ibrahim, was bequeathed to Pakistan by the agency as the most negative fallout of the ill-conceived operation. In 2001, he is perhaps the most powerful man in Karachi owning large estates and keeping army and police personnel on his payroll.]]]]

Alright, so shall we call this terrorism or not?

Ref Zico #: 17

[By all means hate India and call us hypocrites, human rights abusers and I agree with you, we are all those things, we are Jahil people and evil and we eat Muslim babies for breakfast.]

Hey; some of us are vegetarians!

RSaxena,

Saxena, think in STATISTICAL terms. Out of millions of people, does it not stand to reason that we will have some of every sort in any community? I agree that that `some` can be a very large number in God`s own special place that is India, but when we speak of a community, it helps to keep the focus on the middle range, not on outliers. The latter simply can not be ignored. Therefore, I have no problem coming down hard on any wackos who threaten the integrity of the nation, irrespective of the community they belong to, but we must be careful when we address communities in general. Else, we will lose our ability to differentiate between our friends and our foes.

Outliers should be identified as outliers and dealt accordingly. But if we confuse outliers with the rest of the distribution, we will get it all wrong.

Speaking of societal outliers, The Nation has published the following letter from an Indian. Is this guy a wacko or what?!

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/today/editor/let7.htm

Beware of India

We have suffered a lot from the terrorists which Pakistanis call freedom fighters. Kashmir is an integral part of India and will remain so. If you think you can get away with promoting cross-border terrorism, think again. India is a nuclear power and is capable of wiping out Pakistan in the blink of an eye!—VINOD D. GUPTA, Bangalore, India, via e-mail, October 17.

Saima #16
``It was embarassing to see the glee and joy at the opportunity to call Pakistan a terrorist state. The self righteousness was disgusting. ...Sep 11 was so obviously an excuse to run down anything about muslims. I cant help getting the strong impression that the only good muslim in India, is one who is ashamed to be one. ``

Saima, I donot hold any brief for the Indian press or any Indian columnists for their views on Indian Hindu-Muslim issues.

Regarding Pakistan, the fact of the matter is that unfriendly words from India cannot be spoken about in isolation from unfriendly actions from Pakistan. As far as I have observed, Indians are fed up of being targets of visitors bearing arms and ideologies from Pakistan. No self-righteousness in rhetoric can exceed the self-righeousness of armed intervention. India is hobbled by international political constraints not to respond in a decisive way militarily, and hence is making the most of any international leverage it can get to put pressure on Pakistan. If a few armed groups can be stopped from collecting their jihad dollars in the West for a holy war against India, well I am not complaining.

There is no sympathy for Pakistan`s `principled stand` in India, nor for any violence in support of it cloaked as religious war. Indians see Pakistanis donot choose to uphold democratic principles in their own country nor are demanding any say in their own affairs, its seems craven and selfish expedience to justify killing dissenters from the jihadi line in Kashmir in the name of principles which are violated in Pakistan repeatedly. Noone supports Army/state atrocities in Kashmir, but they donot think jihadis from Sindh and Punjab are the solution and they hate Pakistanis for putting them there.

Putting the fate and status of 120?140 million Indian Muslims in jeopardy in the name of `unfinished business of Partition whining from Pakistan` is not seen as a solution either and Indians hate Pakistanis for arming thugs in the name of Islam and Msulim rights to force India to do precisely that.

Pakistani leaders and opinionmakers donot seem to have the slightest clue of the extent of Indian disaffection for Pakistan and its India policy due to these issues and since Kargil, the hijacking and the regular news of attacks, not just restricted to Kashmir. The fact that those who engineer attacks in India including Dawood Ibrahim of the Mumbai blasts and Masood Azhar live and function with offical patronage in Pakistan doesnot help. The fact that most Pakistanis donot seem to make a material difference to their government`s policies, or donot care to, doesnot make Indians more convinced that Pakistanis and their government are a friendly people worth supporting by glossing over holy wars.

I for one think its incredible that the Indian media doesnot reflect the widespread(IMO) Indian disaffection with Pakistan more strongly, and was so willing to lose objectivity in a rush of sentiment during the Agra Summit. Those who still keep faith in Indo-Pak detente have to be incredible people.

Re: A. Patel

That was a very informative article, specially in describing the Afghan countryside, and it was really interesting to learn that the Afghans like India and Indians.

Your article would have been even better and more balanced had you asked the Taliban about their opinions about India. Sadly, you seemed to have generalized the opinions of the Tajiks and Uzbeks, in the north, to be the same as the opinions of the Durrani and Ghazili Afghans in the south. Since you did not, as the western reporters would opine, there is no way for the rest of us to independently confirm your observations that Afghan really adore India. We have just your word and if you will pardon me, truth is often the first casuality in any war, so I hope that you can understand why I am a bit skeptical on your observations.

If the Afghans really do adore India, then I am very happy, because there is atleast one nation, in the region, who does like India! LOL :)

Ciao

India said that they sent food to Afhans.

At present, 24 have have dysentry and 4 have constipation.

Re: Eklayva

``If there is one thing Muslim Indians have shown, it is that they are not sheep driven by some Arabs.``

That is not true. Most Indian Muslims have shown that, some of have shown the opposite (i.e. Farzana Versey demanding rights to carry out jihad in India on the other board). Also, there is a subtle but important difference between an Indian Muslim and a Muslim Indian.

Hasan #12,

Hi Hasan, do you have the same opinion of Americans asking Muslims to speak up and distance themselves from OBL?

Saima Shah

{ Its a shame that the ``free liberal press`` Hindustan Times is so biased, it`s scary}

- Just because a newspaper does not follow the Pakistani military junta party line is not of itself wrong, what does this have to do with a ``free liberal press``? Its a point of view. No wait. It shows the reality of the horrible Hindoos and their true face etc etc....[continue Pakistani whinge ad nauseum.......]

{I am so disgusted with Hindustan Time`s coverage of the issues that I have left reading it}

-Stick to reading the reasoned, liberal, rationalist and not at all bigoted commentaries of the Pakistani Urdu press then.

{ It was embarassing to see the glee and joy at the opportunity to call Pakistan a terrorist state}

Why? A country that is implicated by the entire world in being complicit in atrocities in Kashmir, a deep intimate relationship between the military intelligence service and the Taliban and Al