Whither Democracy?

Stuka: What is Jhanki in [Aao Bachon, Tumhey Dikhayen Jhanki Hindustan Kee``]? You better explain it quickly before someone else brands it a species of heeng or a dish containing dal, imli, achar, steamed rice and bhaji rolled into a ball and thrown mouthward in the form of a projectile.

You need to find a HMV cassette of songs by Pradeep. I believe he wrote as well as sang that poem. Some of his other songs were pretty good also, like pinjre kay panchee ray, tera dard na janey koi``. He was more of a Hindi/ Sanskrit poet than Hindi/ Hindustani/ Urdu poet.

I am not sure if Pakistani or Indian version of indoctrinating children through this song came first. Both sides used history, though Arab history in Pakistani song, with MB Qasim type. If you want to listen to a good Pakistani patriotic song, listen to ``Ae nigar-e-watan, tu salamat rahe`` by Habib Wali Mohammad. IMHO, the best ever patriotic song without bringing in the invaders and relating to them through nth generation.

Or better listen to ``What is going on`` and contribute to noble causes by buying CD of this remake of old Marvin Gay`s song. Just do not waste time and money going to Junoon shunoon concert.

If you have RealPlayer (video) and a reasonable internet connect, take a look at

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/news/print_110701_nw_investigation.html

There appears to be a terrorist base in a village in California, connected to past killings of people of Indian origin in the US, fire-bombing of a Hindu temple, Hindu-owned motel, etc.

-Arun Gupta

Re: stuka

``What the...YLH gives you galis, and you invite him for drinks. Even I have made lame Delhi wala jokes, but I get no invite to drinking and partying?? Esp since you know that I`m from Delhi, and there is shortage of happening places. :(``

ok ok...whenever this partying happens, you can come too...in fact, all the guys can come, provided they meet 1 condition:

you either don`t have a wife/girlfriend/fiance or if you do have one, are willing to leave her home and can assure she will not find out about your activities.

i`ll pick up the drinks and find the venue with hotties, but dealing with the snooty and mean NYC girls is your responsibility

Nasah

`For liberating the WOMEN OF MAZARE SHARIF.`

Are you assuming that Northern Alliance is better than the Taliban?

Maybe we should have Chowk reunion in New York City

Shammi/Stuka

all the Hindus in Pakistan I have come across have been very patriotic Pakistanis...

`both these ladies have contributed enormously to enriching lives of millions over the past 50 years, and who cares what passport they carry`

Though when Nur Jehan died, many Indians on this side jumped up and down to claim that Nur Jehan really was an Indian... (forget her war songs in 1965 which were played over and over again in the war on Pakistan radio) ... I believe Music like science knows no boundaries... but then why do Indians feel like its their duty to rip Pakistan off of whatever little good we have produced in the Music department?

-YLH

Saminaji

A couple of questions for you. What is ``progressive``? Should authors only with a particular political view get literary prizes?

Regards

Maybe Democracy should be postponed till 2015.. well maybe we can have a lame duck prime minister and lame duck parliament.

Pakistan to achieve 86% adult literacy rate by 2015

ISLAMABAD, Nov 8 (APP): The number of adult literates in the country will increase upto 81 million over the next fifteen years, raising the current literacy rate of 49 percent to 86 percent, official sources said here Wednesday. Early childhood education will be raised from the current 25 percent coverage to 50 percent by 2015, the sources said, adding, it will involve opening of 2,500 early childhood centres in the public sector and 1,500 in the private sector. According to the sources, the cost of these efforts is estimated at $ 7 billion of which 40 percent will come from national resources, while the remaining $ 4.5 billion will have to come from external funding. The sources said, the main objectives of Education for All (EFA) action plan is to reach disadvantaged populations in rural and urban areas, with emphasis on girls and women; to promote community participation at the grassroots level and to improve the quality and relevance of basic education. The priorities are primary education, adult literacy and early childhood education, the sources said, adding, universal primary education will be a reality for boys by 2010 and for girls by 2015. Some 8,250 new primary schools in the public and private sectors will be opened to accommodate the new enrolments, and 100,000 primary schools will be upgraded and double shifts in existing schools to be introduced.

bong_dong

How are Chomsky`s views on current events in anyway related to his admittedly brilliant Ph.D. dissertation on generative grammar?

Saminaji

Why should the foreign policy views of a person, trained as a linguist and whose most important work has been on innate structures in languages and their mathematical foundations, be so important? I fully understand Ed Said and Faoud Ajami (sp?) being considered seriously as foreign policy and middle east experts. I have the same problem with Arundhati Roy passing off as a serious policy analyst. She is a trained architect, who has written one brilliant novel and perhaps two average screenplays. She rails against western capitalism now but did not have any problems with the exploitative western capitalist behemoth when western capitalist publishers paid her tons of money and promoted her book which got her all the fame.

TAhmed:

``And in all cases, the basic fact you point towards - that people are people and not stereotypes - remains true. Anyone not recognizing this will never be able to discuss anything other than at a superficial level.``

That`s it, precisely. I honestly realized that after coming to the States. Before that Pakistan was ``Enemy # 1`` a homogenous country, rather than a mosaic of individuals. I appreciate the same everyday on Chowk. Regarding the Lata CDs, well the artist is umimportant, compared to the locale and the imagery.

BTW, I am sure you have heard a song called ``Aao Bacho Sehr Karein``, it is on Pakstanimusic.com (bless AnNy for telling me about the site), and is exactly the same as an Indian song called `` Aao Bachon, Tumhey Dikhayen Jhanki Hindustan Kee``. I haven`t found the Indian version yet, but enjoy listening to the Pakistani version.

Cheers and have a good weekend

Shammi:

``That said, `they don`t deserver any better` is outright cruel, cold and lacks any compassion.``

You`re right, and I didn`t really mean the way it came out. My point is that our own record is not perfect, therefore, like the Chinese, should refarin from commenting on the internal affairs of other countries. The fact that the suffering people are hindus should not make a difference. They are Pakistani/Bangladeshi citizens first, Hindus second.

The thrust was against selective compassion, not compassion per se.

Some recent Hitchens pieces

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20011022&s=hitchens

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20011008&s=hitchens

Samiashah

... Do you have any suggestions on theorists who have been contributing new perspectives? ...

Maam I have a day job and a fiancee (both of which I have been inattentive towards) so...

soysauce

``Chomsky is a self-hating jew to the zionists``

I had no idea Chomsky was Jewish!! The Hitchens-Chomsky debate is well covered on the nation website www.thenation.com. My argument is with Chomskys radicalism and his penchant for hyperbole much like our own Ms Roy. He destroys his own credibility (in my eyes atleast) by his hyperbole. For instance his claim that some XX million Somali`s died bue to bombing of the Al-Shifa plant.

Stuka #267 The point you make is an important one: see people as people first and last, not as members of this group or that group. We are all born as humans and we all die as humans - religions, nationalities, linguistic groups etc. - are as superficial as the clothes we put on between birth and death. Differences in culture (nationality, religion etc.) can enrich our lives if we learn to appreciate - even love - the good things in all cultures and impoverish us if we chose to be cynical or search for negatives (as I feel happens too often on chowk).

And in all cases, the basic fact you point towards - that people are people and not stereotypes - remains true. Anyone not recognizing this will never be able to discuss anything other than at a superficial level.

Thanks again for a good post making some badly needed points.

PS: Incidentally, the cds you mention myself buying were of Lata, not Nur Jehan, and I bought them in Rawalpindi not Lahore, but those are details :-). Both these ladies have contributed enormously to enriching lives of millions over the past 50 years, and who cares what passport they carry.