When the Lights Hurt the Eyes

something for India & Pak to fight against together?

{{Punishment brings BCCI, PCB together

ISLAMABAD: The harsh punishment meted out to six players of the Indian cricket team has brought cricket boards of India and Pakistan closer, with the two exchanging detailed notes and reportedly agreeing to fight the ``biased`` attitude against players from the subcontinent.

While the Pakistan Cricket Board declined to officially react to the controversy, PCB chief Lt Gen Tauqir Zia said he had a lengthy telephonic talk with president of the Board of Control for Cricket in India Jagmohan Dalmiya on Wednesday.

``Yes, Dalmiya rang me up and we had a very positive conversation,`` Gen Zia was quoted as saying by the daily The News here on Thursday.}}

re: Shima #272

Good to see you brightening up. May be Chandni and Aman -the blessed couple- can make the beautiful chaman Sardar Jafri spoke about during some of the darkest days of Indo-Pak relationship :) -

Tum aao gulshan-e-Lahore se chaman bardosh,

Hum aayen subh-e-Banaras ki roshnee le kar

Himalay ki havaaon ki taazgee le kar

Aur iske baad yeh poochein ki kaun dushman hai?

-You come from the garden of Lahore laden with flowers,

-I will come bearing the light of a Benares morning

-With fresh breezes from Himalayan heights

-And then, together we can ask, who is the enemy?

re: hamzad afaqui # 266, #263, other

If, like you, all of us come to realize that we are all, in various ways, pursuing the same God, the same ultimate reality, we would have reached quite a milestone in the spiritual and religious development of human consciousness.

That will not be an easy achievement, though. The Maya jaal - the veil of ingorance - that you speak of keeps the ultimate reality, the essence of things inaccessible to most of us, most of the time. Trapped securely to the wheel of time and tradition (samsara), motivated by passions and greed (kaam and lobha), we fall in blind love (moha) with the shifting, changing phenomenological web we spin (maya) around the material world (prakriti). Thence arises the ignorance and forgetfulness(avidya) of the One and Only absolute, eternal, unchanging reality (Brahman). We forget the substance, worship the form. Since the essence is one but the forms differ, and we get excessively attached to our own forms, vanity and anger (madd and krodh) in the celebration and defence of our forms becomes our lot.

As you can see, we are speaking of the same things. It is this oneness that we must grasp, that we must seek, that we must dedicate our lives to, if we wish to align ourselves to the Ulimate Reality, God, Ishwar, or Allah.

Meanwhile, a thumbs up for WW - another guy not much sold to the charms of capitalism:

The world is too much with us; late and soon,

Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers;

Little we see in Nature that is ours;

We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon!

This Sea that bares her bosom to the moon,

The winds that will be howling at all hours,

And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers,

For this, for everything, we are out of tune;

It moves us not.--Great God! I`d rather be

A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn;

So might I, standing on this pleasant lea,

Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn;

Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea;

Or hear old Triton blow his wreathed horn.

Truth #264 ``look at the treatment of women, football players, bamiyan buddhas, educational system, no music, no TV ``

OK, so they shaved off the hair from our football players for wearing shorts in Kabul and getting all the Afghan women excited (not to mention the men). So what?? It was a FREE haircut, and no tips either. What is so bad about that??

Hi all! sorry to digress from Deewali, but has anybody in Chowk had any chance to watch any episode of ``Sarhadein`` on Zee TV? I like the storyline, a bit fantasy may be, but good to have these fantasies around when reality is hitting hard to steal the innocence of mind and heart.

The story goes like a Hindu girl (Chandni) from India desperately falls in love with a Muslim guy (Aman) from Pakistan (now both in Malaysia).... We need more Chandnis and Amans.. Amen

Yea,Democracy has brought Freidmania to ecstatic 140 million pathetic indian muslims like the mr.Freidmans hilltop home in the Gaza ,for the original Palestenians inhabitants

Movement for Ayodhya & Against jehadis will begin simultaneously: VHP



TIMES NEWS NETWORK



ANGALORE: The second phase of the movement to construct the Ram temple at the disputed site of Ayodhya would begin from November 26, Vishwa Hindu Parishad general secretary Praveenbhai Tagodia said here on Wednesday.

Addressing a news conference, Tagodia said around five crore people would invoke the name of Lord Rama before the construction commences. Around 10,000 rath yathras would begin simultaneously from different places of the country.

``The final phase of Ram temple movement will start with the march of more than 5,000 sadhus to Delhi from January 21. Every village in the country would be involved in the movement. Through this, the VHP will simulataneously launch a fight against Islamic terrorism and the jehadi movement in Kashmir,`` he said.

The VHP has set March 12, 2002 as the deadline for handing over the land for construction of the temple at Ayodhya with the meeting of Sadhus being crucial. From February 17, people would start congregating at Ayodhya, he said.

``No government has survived which has opposed the construction of Ram temple including that of Rajiv Gandhi, V.P. Singh and P.V. Narasimha Rao. We are not committed to any particular political party and will not support any party which is opposed to the construction of Ram temple,`` he said.

The VHP is also fighting against the more than two crore infiltrators from Bangladesh who are slowing entering West Bengal and also the mushrooming number of madrasas across the borders. Besides, it has also demanded the Abrogation of article 370 and imposition of a uniform civil code.

Later addressing a gathering in the evening, Togadia said the world had changed after the September 11 attacks and India was being viewed more seriously.

``The clash of civilisations can no longer be avoided and the whole world is now united against Islamic jehadi terrorism. We have suffered repeated humiliations in the face of terrorism but we have been vindicated now,`` he stated.

kind courtesy a friend. . .

Diwali...then...

Preparations started about a month in advance.

The house was cleaned. Long standing repairs taken up. May be even a coat of paint.

Garments purchased. There were no ready mades then. No brand consciousness. We went to Petmen Tailors. Kunjuppu there was the man of the moment. He was all over the place. There was a swarm of customers. And it was still 20 days to go. He complained about all coming at the

`last` minute. Finally when it was our turn...he took the tape...and measured you. If you were a little slow in turning around...he spun you

himself...rather forcefully...he had no time to waste. He yelled numbers...his assistant wrote it all down in the din of noise caused by the `rackety rack` (lambu style noise description here) of the sewing machines. You feared what if the numbers got jumbled up...but dare not

question. You ventured to mention a few styles...slant pocket...no pleats....bell bottoms...flaps over the back pockets..rounded collars etc. He grudgingly nodded and drew diagrams in the bills. He cut two

small triangles from the cloth stapled them to the bill and you were out. Trial was once week hence.

One week later...promptly you were there for the trial. The date and time were seared into your memory ....Kal aana...thoda sa khaj lagane ka

hai baki...you saw your cloth still sitting on his shelf where he had chucked it one week back....``Liar`` you muttered under your breath as you went out of the shop.

Next day...you first looked for the your bundle on the shelf...it was not there...hope surged...may be he had it ready for the trial...kal aana...button baki hai....what the heck you said...one day here or there did not matter...and you had nothing better to do in the evenings besides...You and your friends trudged to their tailors and met the same fate...it was a global phenomenon...sab tailor lok aisa hi hai sala...

At last the trail was ready...but the styles were not the ones that you had wanted. Your dreams of strutting around with bell bottoms with slant

pockets were in the wind...getting older when you dared question..he said .....abhi yeh hi style hai...to what ever he condescended to stitch

for you.

On a parallel front, moms met each other at least a few weeks before. Ladies of the same circle...compared what they would be doing so that

there was not duplication when they exchanged sweets. Also each family got to eat more varieties in the bargain. There were proclaimed experts of each item...and these experts took it upon themselves to make their favorites...We children however had our own school of opinion. Only we did not air it within hearing distance of the recipients offspring. Most of us compared notes in the evening about the progress of the sweets in each others houses. What else did we have to talk about when we were doing the rounds of the tailors?

Crackers were purchases at least a week in advance. Ramji in Air India colony....4 number bldg...(remember maggie)...was the agent. He took

orders 2 weeks in advance and delivered about a week ahead. Our immediate task was to open all of them and everyday put them out in the sun.. This was deemed necessary in order to remove the moisture content and get the best `bang` for the buck.

Come diwali day and were so excited that we could hardly sleep at all. At the sound of the first cracker...we were all up. Oil baths, had our

eyes glossy. Sweets...home made only then...swapping had to wait for later in the day...were eaten. Fresh clothes...Kunjuppu style...were worn...crackers in two pockets.. agarbathi in hand and we were out....kicking the resident c/o/c/k and chiding him for being late that

day.

Comments... feedback....do you want me to continue?

--

P. Venkatraman

Reply to DRUMZ, etc :

Some of the ideas of Hinduism and of other religions are explained quite well, in my opinion, in the online book

http://www.adamford.com/swb/browse.htm

Quoting a little from there :

``Monotheism teaches that God is a Person, a separate entity, distinct from the rest of creation. Religious monism teaches a God that is not a Person, but is the Ultimate Ground of Existence. In a word, monotheism says there is only one God; monism (religious or natural) says there is only One - period!

India has both conceptions of God. It has religions that worship Gods who are Persons such as Krishna, Kali and Shiva. And it has Vedanta, a religion that worships ``Brahman,`` the God which is not a Person. What is Brahman? The world of people and objects we see around us has an ultimate ground of existence. Science calls it energy. Vedanta calls it Brahman.``

---

Religious monism says that everything - us, a lamp, a worm - has the same Ultimate Ground of Existence, God. It may seem absurd when it`s first encountered, perhaps because the idea of God as some Person is so ingrained.

In his youth, Swami Vivekananda met the monist viewpoint in the teachings of Ramakrishna. He was less than impressed.



``What`s the difference . . . between this and atheism? How can a created soul think of itself as the Creator? What could be a greater sin? What`s this nonsense about I am God, you are God, everything that is born and dies is God? The authors of these books must have been mad - how else could they have written such stuff? ([I04],205).

Vivekananda`s statements were based on a misunderstanding of monism. Saying the God which is not a Person is the Ultimate Substance of both any person and any God who is a Person doesn`t say the two are equal or identical. Just as saying both ice and steam are water doesn`t say they`re equal or identical. Ice and steam are different, but share a common ground. People and Gods who are Persons are different but share a common Ground.

So, monism doesn`t equate the creature with any God who is a Person. It doesn`t equate any human soul with the Creator. And it doesn`t confuse a God who is a Person, the Creator of the universe who is distinct from it, with the God which is not a Person, the creator and upholder of the universe at this very moment in the sense of being its Eternal Substance. Rather monism maintains a distinction between these pairs of very different ideas.

For example, Shankara, one of religious monism`s foremost spokesman, carefully maintained the distinction between the creature and ``Iswara,`` his term for the God who is a Person. In an introduction to his Crest-Jewel of Discrimination, the translators write:

We can become Brahman, since Brahman is present in us always. But we can never become Iswara, because Iswara is above and distinct from our human personality. . . . [W]e can never become rulers of the universe - for that is Iswara`s function. ([S11],23-4).

They even label ([S11],24) the desire to become Iswara as madness and Lucifer`s sin. However, they seem to slightly misstate our relation to Brahman, perhaps for the sake of the parallelism ``we can become Brahman . . . But we can never become Iswara.`` In fact, we already are Brahmam, the Source, the Ultimate Ground of Existence. Our conscious realization of this fact is all that`s lacking. Our ego has not yet realized its Basis.``

----

``Are Gods who are Persons mythological? Or are They real? We`ve seen that our own existence and identity vanish as we approach the level of the One and the All. The existence of God considered as an individual Person, as one entity among many, necessarily suffers the same fate.

. . . Brahman only appears as Iswara when viewed by the relative ignorance of Maya. Iswara has the same degree of reality as Maya has. ([S11],23).

All manifestations exist in the Ultimate Ground of Existence and lose their separate existence and identity as we approach the Absolute.

Yet we may say the same thing in a more positive way: Gods who are Persons may be as real as you, or I, or the world we see around us. Gods who are Persons may have a more than mythological existence, they may have an existence as real as anything else. Of course, they might just as well fail to exist at all. Without proof, a scientific religion could neither deny or affirm the existence of separate Gods who are Persons.``

---

``Many religious believers don`t possess the monist temperament. They aren`t capable of loving Truth in the ``abstract.``

Many people, however, are capable of loving a God who is a Person. They find it easier loving someone like Jesus, who died for us, or the cute baby Krishna. In other words, many believers are capable of practicing a religion which includes some form of Huxley`s fifth principle. This principle affirms



. . . the existence of one or more human Incarnations of the Divine Ground, by whose mediation and grace the worshipper is helped to achieve his goal - that unitive knowledge of the Godhead, which is man`s eternal life and beatitude. ([S18],17).

From the fifth principle follows the bulk of popular religious belief and practice. In Christianity and Hinduism, the story of an Incarnation`s life is scripture; reverence and devotion for an Incarnation is piety; and pleas to an Incarnation are prayer.

And if we take ``Incarnation`` in a wide sense, if we view any God who is a Person as an Incarnation of the God which is not a Person, then we find a similar situation in Judaism and Islam. That is, Jewish and Islamic scripture consists of records of the actions of an ``Incarnation`` (Jehovah and Allah), as well as the actions of prophets. Again, reverence and devotion for an Incarnation are piety, and pleas to an Incarnation are prayer. Even Buddhism has, in a sense, an Incarnation.``

---

Transforming one`s entire person is a difficult, long-term process. Changing one`s daily life to reflect religious and philosophical truths can be an arduous task. Emotions are a powerful aid to this transformation, even to those of the cerebral, jnana, temperament.

....

Actual and Operational Monotheism

We`ve seen that the separate existence of you, I, the universe, and Gods who are Persons vanishes when we approach the Absolute.

For someone temperamentally suited to the worship of a God who is a Person, this leaves two unsatisfactory choices. First, they can choose to worship the ultimately real God which is not a Person. Second, they can choose to worship some ultimately unreal God who is a Person. A very poor choice indeed.

There is, however, an alternative. Someone might choose to relate to, and even to worship, the Self-Existent as if It were alive and conscious, as if It were a Person.



Operational monotheism is a type of monism. It acknowledges the separate God who is a Person as ultimately, ontologically false. But it nonetheless worships the Uncreated as if It is a separate entity, a Person among persons.

A monist who practices operational monotheism regards the Eternal as if It were a Person. Such a monist emphasizes the ``personal aspect`` of the Ultimate Ground of Existence.

-----

Sri Ramakrishna worshipped the Eternal as Mother, specifically the Hindu goddess Mother Kali. He deeply yearned for direct experience. He prayed and wept for it and eventually in his frustration almost went mad. He felt ([S01],143) as if his heart and mind were being wrung like a wet towel. Sometimes bystanders assumed he grieved the loss of his human mother, and offered their sympathy. In fact, he grieved that he had not yet had the vision of God.

Eventually, driven by longing and despair Ramakrishna resolved to end his life. As he reached for a sword,



. . . suddenly I had the wonderful vision of the Mother . . . I did not know what happened then in the external world . . . But, in my heart of hearts, there was flowing a current of intense bliss, never experienced before, and I had the immediate knowledge of the light, that was Mother. . . . It was as if houses, doors, temples and all other things vanished altogether; as if there was nothing anywhere! And what I saw, was a boundless infinite conscious sea of light! However far and in whatever direction I looked, I found a continuous succession of effulgent waves coming forward, raging and storming . . . ([S01],143).

Ramakrishna declared he had ``immediate knowledge of the light, that was Mother.`` He described his vision as a vision of shining conscious Light. He had prayed for the Mother to reveal herself, and the Mother, Brahman, the Uncreated Light, had revealed Herself - as a shining ocean of Light and Consciousness. The situation seems clear.

Christopher Isherwood`s Ramakrishna and His Disciples recounts the story of Ramakrishna`s life. In it, Isherwood writes:



Ramakrishna knew that Mother Kali was not other than Brahman. ([I04],118).

Presumably then Isherwood knew ``Mother Kali`` was a personalized label for the God who is not a Person. Yet he wonders if Ramakrishna also saw a woman in his vision, specifically Kali. He writes:

It is not quite clear from Ramakrishna`s narrative whether or not he actually saw the form of Mother Kali in the midst of this vision of shining consciousness. ([I04],65).

Did Ramakrishna see a woman in his vision? Both Isherwood ([I04],65) and no less than a direct disciple of Ramakrishna decide he did. Why? Because afterwards



. . . as soon as he had the slightest external consciousness . . . . he, we are told, uttered repeatedly the word `Mother` in a plaintive voice. ([S01],143).

Lack of appreciation of the Eternal Light`s dual aspects forces ``Mother`` to be taken as Mother Kali, a God who is a Person. Lack of appreciation leads to confusion and uncertainty since Ramakrishna talks of the Mother yet describes an experience of

Light.

Who was the God Ramakrishna longed for? Was it some God who is a Person, specifically a Hindu goddess, Mother Kali? Or was it the Self-Existent, in his own words

. . . the universal Mother, consisting of the

effulgence of pure consciousness . . . ([S01],255)?

I believe it was the Real. Once, he had declared Brahman



. . . is Light, but not the light that we perceive, not material light. ([G03],307).

He had also said

[t]he attainment of the Absolute is called the Knowledge of Brahman . . . ([G03],307),

I believe Ramakrishna wanted - and finally received - first-hand knowledge of Brahman, a direct experience of the Uncreated Light. Ramakrishna was, I believe, a monist practicing operational monotheism.

----

Arun Gupta

Let the net fill the credibilty-gap of the Networks.

News and Latest Developments

NEWS RELEASE: Sunday 18 November 2001

Anti-war protest - 100,000 march in London against war in Afghanistan

Report by Stop the War Coalition &

Media Workers Against the War

Sunday 18 November

Some 100,000 anti-war protesters marched in London today, doubling last month`s turn-out of 50,000, and reflecting the full breadth, depth and diversity of anti-war feeling in Britain. Trade unionists, Muslim organisations, community groups, anti-racists, human rights activists, anti-globalisation activists, students and MPs heard a wide range of speakers condemn the US-led military action in Afghanistan.

After a week in which sections of the media indulged in misplaced triumphalism in relation to the war in Afghanistan and subjected anti-war dissenters to misrepresentation and calumny, the huge numbers were particularly significant.

After the large demonstration in London on 13 October, the Guardian reported that government ministers were surprised and concerned. Tonight, they will be even more concerned.

Some 100,000 people, undoubtedly representing the views of millions, have seen through the hypocrisy and the double-standards, and reject the war being waged in their name.

Despite all the government`s advantages in the propaganda war, more and more people are asking hard questions about this military action - and they are increasingly unsatisfied with the spin-doctors` answers.

Among the marchers were a wide range of people from trades unions, Muslim organisations, community and anti-racist groups, colleges, schools and universities, human rights, peace and anti-globalisation organisations, and political parties.

Protesters came by the coach-load from across the country, including Newcastle, Manchester, Plymouth, across Scotland & Wales, and the Foreign Secretary`s own constituency of Blackburn. Forty coaches came from Birmingham. As the head of the march reached Trafalgar Square, the tail was still leaving Hyde Park.

``After today`s demonstration, no-one can doubt both the scale and the diversity of anti-war feeling in this country,`` said Suresh Grover of the National Civil Rights Movement and the Stop the War Coalition steering committee. ``This is a ground-breaking event, a massive display of opposition to the military action.

``This protest is also against the attack on human rights in Britain. The government is slipping in the suspension of habeas corpus and the introduction of internment and detention without trial. We are also seeing a proliferation of racist assaults.

``This huge turn-out represents the tip of the iceberg of disquiet running through British society. Despite the media attacks, we`ve doubled our numbers in a month. The message of the demonstration is that we are not going away. This movement will only get bigger.``

Among the speakers were John Pilger, Carol Naughton (Chair of CND), Bianca Jagger, Tony Benn, Caroline Lucas MEP (Green Party), Tariq Ali, Yvonne Ridley, New York City trade unionist Michael Letwin, Dr Jonathan Farley (a Tennesee-born American scholar currently at Oxford), MPs Jeremy Corbyn, Paul Marsden, Alan Simpson, George Galloway, and Adam Price, Asad Rehman (Newham Monitoring Project), Germaine Greer, George Monbiot, Morning Star editor John Haylett, Socialist Alliance chair Dave Nellist, human rights lawyers Louise Christian and Mike Mansfield, NATFHE general secretary Paul Mackney, NUT Executive member Bernard Regan and people from Palestine, Kurdistan and Afghanistan itself.

The march was organised by the Stop the War Coalition and was supported by a wide range of peace and political organisations, community groups, trades unions and individuals (including CND, Labour MPs, RMT, ASLEF, the Muslim Parliament, the National Civil Rights Movement, the Newham Monitoring Project, the London Council of Mosques, Labour Against the War, Media Workers Against the War, Lawyers Against the War, and Artists Against the War).

At sunset, demonstrators - Muslim and non-Muslim - joined in iftar, the evening fast-breaking ritual of the month of Ramadan. The crowd revelled in its own diversity, and in the unity that so many found in calling for peace and justice - for Afghanistan, and people everywhere.

Also visit Media Workers Against the War for more news

http://www.mwaw.org

Amit---244

You wrote

[``At the same time, Khatami in Iran is a religious man but he is using religion in a positive manner to develop a better Iran. The Islamic world needs more and more people like Khatami, who can provide a proper vision for the future. I am sure there are millions of such people in the Islamic world and they need to form the intelligentsia for the future.``]



Thank you!

Malaysia is another good example.Perhaps more so, being a pluralistic society.

The information is more directed towards the self-loathing and demoralised muslims than non-muslims.The education system has so completely wrecked our minds that it has been reduced to the attainment of a job title,money and invitation to the parties of the tyrants & soul-sellers.

The english-educated muslim is in a stupor and refuses to acknowledge that there is life & learning outside the colonised mind.Their stinginess & myopia,in appreciating even slight demonstration of an independent stance by a state,can perhaps be explained best by wondering if they are terrified by the imminent collapse of the paradidms & world-views of their corrupt & ``successful`` dads.

Disclaimer:Postings on Islam & Muslims are not directed specifically to non-muslims.

I am very keen to learn from fellow proud hindus who can write so much about,I cannot even think of,but must be there,ancient India.

Can anyone educate me about when & how the Indian numeral system started & what was there before it?

CHOWK can be so great & so much fun.

tahmed321 #260
``What Pakistan assisted Taliban or Afghanistan, it related to supply of food and fuel.``

A Human Rights Watch report this year published a section labelled ``Crisis of Impunity`` with information about the continuous Pakistani connection with the Taliban including the Pakistani government`s direct military support which continued even until earlier this year.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/afghan2/Afghan0701-02.htm#P350_92934

Comments?

tahmed#260:

even if taliban was not a pakistani creation, taliban could rely on the lack of pakistani opposition. how did pakistan, a country from south asia, get in bed with saudis and the uae and recognize the taliban for EVEN ONE DAY? look at the treatment of women, football players, bamiyan buddhas, educational system, no music, no TV - why did it take the bombing of the WTC, which is not even something that can be tied directly to the Taliban, for Pakistan to step away from the Taliban? This is the question the Pakistani govt and Pakistani people must ask themselves. Pakistani policy is in tatters and has no clothese on. The key is does the rank and file Pakistani see that - that the emperor has no clothes on?

Reply #: 253

narain

[``The funniest thing is that the Hindu concept of god is of a formless consciousness, and yet we pray to this god through human-like idols. In contrast all the three semitic relgions think of god as being human in shape (``he created man in his own image``) and yet do not pray to any humanlike images. Strange that, huh?``]



That concept is only the Christain one(as per the Bible;conisidered to be not the original by muslims).

The muslim/hindu/jewish concept is EXACTLY the same.Unfortunately most hindus are not aware of their own religion.The quotations,recorded so judiciously and honestly by the muslim historian/scientist Al-Beruni,is a testimony to this.The Surah Fatiha & Ayetul-Kursi plus the expositions of Hazrat Ali in the Nehjul-Bulaghaa are almost identical to the hindu explanations of the ONE & ONLY.

Please read Al-Berunis` `India`.The most authoritative book on Hindus & India written to date(written 800/900 years ago).

PS:Your observation is still appreciated.

hamzad afaqui:

Congratulations for being the first (older) muslim ive ever heard mention Mos Def and Tribe. Most rappers believe in some form of Islam (though most arent sunni...)

``with Allah as my supernatural body guard/rappers couldnt touch me if they gave me a massage``

We should all take the reference to Malcolm with a bus load of salt. If this guy left perhaps the most disciplined organization in America, he would have had a field day with the corruption and hypocricy in the Muslim world (none of which are highlighted in your posts....)

Muslims should be glad X was killed. I have a feeling had he survived 10 more years hed be on us like we were once klansmen...

Interview by Tanvir Ahmed Khan. He is someone who knows what he is talking about and if he doesnt have direct knowledge of anything he says so as well, and we dont have too many of those in south asia. (Sorry to post the complete article, but I thought it worth it).

ISLAMABAD: A former diplomat, high-ranking foreign policy maker of the county and a political analyst, Tanvir Ahmed Khan has strongly rejected reports that the Taliban were a product of Pakistan.

In an interview here, former Foreign Secretary said that though there are several opinions in this regard, he could say with full responsibility that Taliban were not the creation of Pakistan. ``They emerged following some developments in Kandahar. When they achieved military success and they reached Kabul, it was imperative for Pakistan to establish relations with them. What Pakistan assisted Taliban or Afghanistan, it related to supply of food and fuel. It is not correct that Taliban are product of Pakistan,`` he added.

He recalled that Pakistan itself has been worried during the past couple of years. ``Pakistan could not convince Taliban on any issue during this period with regard to their certain policies and decisions regarding women, education and towards rest of the world,`` Tanvir Ahmed Khan remarked.

He also rejected the idea that Pakistan may raise any other organization in Afghanistan. ``I do not believe that any such movement may rise from Pakistan because the situation has changed and the government has become much vigilant. It is for the first time that an efforts is being made by Pakistan to completely close the Pak-Afghan border. We have never deployed army and always kept the border open but now Pakistan is seriously considering closing the border,`` the former Foreign Secretary observed.

When asked about Pakistan’s stance on war against terrorism, he said the position is very clear. ``Pakistan was and is a prominent member of the coalition against terrorism. We were in agreement with all members of the coalition, particularly the United States and Britain that there should be a broad-based government in Afghanistan enjoying support of al nationalities. Whenever one faction got dominance in Afghanistan, it resulted into civil war. Pakistan has some 2400 kilometers long border with Afghanistan, therefore, peace and order in Afghanistan is very important for it,`` Tanvir Ahmed Khan said.

He said as Pakistan has to face the consequences of any turbulence taking place there in shape of refugees and economic burden. He said Pakistan wants that the government in Afghanistan should be stable and territorial integrity of that country remains intact. ``If Afghanistan is divided, it will destabilize the whole Central Asia and pose serious threat to peace and security to the region,`` he said.

To a question whether there would be a long term change in Western policy towards Pakistan, Tanvir Ahmed Khan hoped that it could be the beginning of a new era. ``There was some problem owing to change of government in Pakistan over the past two years. But now the Pakistani President has given a roadmap for restoration of democracy. West also insists that this plan should be implemented and the timetable for elections remains intact. At the same time, the two sides are also developing economic relations after a long time. I believe that they have been planned for long period. A new trend is also visible on part of Pakistan. Pakistan is not focusing much attention on getting aid rather it is stressing on access to market in the West so that the country becomes economically self-reliant. President Bush has also that there should be stability in Pakistan and that US will help in this regard,`` the former foreign secretary added.

Harpreet #247

Here are my test results as graded by SAT (Sikh Admissions Test):

1. ``First of all pour a glass of finest Scotch whiskey, neat, and stare at it for five minutes. You should be able to notice the increase in saliva production in your mouth...``

SAT Results: C+. Some saliva production. Student needs more focus on alcohol.

2. ``play Gurdas Manns song ``Apna Punjab Hove`` very loud. If it evokes any sentimental saccharine pastoral fantasies of ploughing the fields, tending the cattle, flirting with a few village girls, before driving home on your tractor to be served saag and maaki de roti...``

SAT Results: A+. Award of Excellence in flirting with a few village girls.

3. ``Next time you are driving, (symbolically) close your eyes and imagine you are a truck driver on the GT road. If after ten minutes you start honking the horn at the cute women and start tweaking your moustache (even if you dont have one) and feel like stopping at a dhaba for some chicken and sweet tea...``

SAT Results: A-. Points deducted due to missing moustache (Excuse that moustache was shaven off by northern alliance rejected).

4. ``If you ever have moments of lucidity where you cannot work out who you dislike more, Muslims or Brahmins...``

SAT Results: F. Examinee (Roll Number tahmed321)indicated no signs of lucidity, and kept on singing: ``Hindu, muslim, sikh, Isaee, In sab ko mera salaam`` when asked this question. Examinee did not stop this singing despite attempts to help him gain lucidity by concerned chowk posters jay, rsaxena and urstruly.

5. ``If you are a nice kind generous good looking man with honour and pride, dignity and a latent sexual prowess, then you definately have alot of Sikh in you. In fact, any of these attributes would preclude you from being Pakistani at all, making you a freak of nature.``

SAT Results: Not taken. Examinee insisted he was a ``a nice kind generous good looking man with honour and pride, dignity and a latent sexual prowess`` and then started singing ``Jeeway, Jeeway, Jeeeeeway Pakistan...Pakistan, Pakistan, Pakistan...`` thereby contradicting the premise of this question.