The Price

Radio Romair: ``Why does the GoI not speak to the ahpc ? They are the actual representatives of the kashmiri people``



Former ISI agent (Mir Khursheed) Interview.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/nov/30inter.htm

Mir Khursheed:

``The Hurriyat is a body of nobodies.``

Dec-1-01 2:15:17 EST Reply #: 375

sigalph235

re bapu 373

``[[All this is to point that while Chrictians and Jews have no tolerance on tolerance, Muslim polities certainly do not have a leg to stand on when it comes to lectures about human rights`]]

Sigalph235

WHILE DO NOT DENY ,AS HUMAN MUSLIMS MIGHT HAVE ERRED,BUT ALL YOUR e.g. are REFUTABLE & AT BEST HAS TWO OPINIONS BOTH EQUALLY VALID & ACCEPTABLE .

I KNOW JIZYA TAX & DHIMMI ,THEYARE JUSTIFIED INISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE AS THE YEARLY TAX YOU PAY UNCLE SAM in fact much greater % to see fire works over Afghanistan & 10 yrs ago in Baghdad.

Islamic jurisprudence may convict under its law what indian laws might not & vice versa.You cant compare apple & oranges .Each set of laws are different for different sovereignity.

ate Posted: Dec-1-01 2:15:17 EST Reply #: 378

tahmed321

Yehuda #369 ``I am a lawyer in Tel Aviv and have seen lot of violence committed by Arafat and his supporters. I hope to present my views to some of you, from Israeli perspective.``

Welcome to chowk. Arab-Isreali issues are not the burning ones on chowk, since chowkies are nearly all either Indian or Pakistani and one fine rep from Bangladesh (just as I am sure you dont worry too much about Pakistani-India issues in Tel Aviv). But all I can say is this: You blame (in your other post) Iraq and Saudi and Pakistan for Israel`s problems. It is easy to blame other people (and I am not defending the policies of any government when I say this). If Israelis and Palestinians lived as good neighbors with one another, and saw each other as fellow humans with families and feelings, there is nothing anyone could do to cause trouble between you. And the rest of the world, and future generations, would thank the peacemakers (who would ultimately have to be from among the Palestinians and the Israelis) for that.



TAHmed

SEE HOW NAIVE YOU ARE ?Gullible,peasent ,`laloo`,simpleton,easily tricked into ,But only if it is non muslim.

Yeh ek sajda jise tu garan samajh ta hai

Hazar sajde se Aadmi ko deta hai garan

Yes taraveeh,roza ,bearded,cap wearing muslims are SMARTER than ``educated`` like you

ate Posted: Dec-1-01 2:15:17 EST Reply #: 378

tahmed321

Yehuda #369 ``I am a lawyer in Tel Aviv and have seen lot of violence committed by Arafat and his supporters. I hope to present my views to some of you, from Israeli perspective.``

Welcome to chowk. Arab-Isreali issues are not the burning ones on chowk, since chowkies are nearly all either Indian or Pakistani and one fine rep from Bangladesh (just as I am sure you dont worry too much about Pakistani-India issues in Tel Aviv). But all I can say is this: You blame (in your other post) Iraq and Saudi and Pakistan for Israel`s problems. It is easy to blame other people (and I am not defending the policies of any government when I say this). If Israelis and Palestinians lived as good neighbors with one another, and saw each other as fellow humans with families and feelings, there is nothing anyone could do to cause trouble between you. And the rest of the world, and future generations, would thank the peacemakers (who would ultimately have to be from among the Palestinians and the Israelis) for that.



TAHmed

SEE HOW NAIVE YOU ARE ?Gullible,peasent .laloo,simpleton,easily tricked into ,But only if it is non muslim.

Yeh ek sajda jise tu garan samajh ta hai

Hazar sajde se Aadmi ko deta hai garan

Yes taraveeh,roza ,bearded,cap wearing muslims are SMARETER than ``educated`` like you

An aside to YLH: I don`t want to give away any names so soon, but did you know your ``favorite`` interactor on Chowk has resurfaced (new ID, of course!)

re: semipreciousme

{{``...it`s no secret pak`s had a better team for most of the time...but hey, you gotta be better at something when you`re worse in everything else ;)``

....lol...this isn`t a cop-out is it?...}

hehe...a cop-out?...i admit pak`s had a better cricket team...heck, even starving africans outdo india with their olympic gold in track and field...nary a bronze for india...

but that`s ok, we make our mark in more important areas :)

Hamzad #384 - All is not lost! Even though arrested development was sharp enough to expose the latest incarnation, there are two more that just surfaced last week. And they are every bit as hilarious! Have fun (I am!)

Romair 376

Typically full of Hobbyty and urstruly like chickanery and twisting facts. Pure bs to say that anyone who refuses to tolerate murderers and haters is a murder and hater himself. That is nothing other than a trick of hand by fundamentalists. You may worship Musharraf as God in Chief and Pakistani army as full of Gods but others dont have to listen to that nonsense.

yahuda goldstEEn #369, ``I am a lawyer in Tel Aviv and have seen lot of violence committed by Arafat and his supporters. I hope to present my views to some of you, from Israeli perspective.``

And I`m Elvis coming back from the grave to give my opinion on South Asian matters.

So how`s the weather in Israel?

Studebaker

you say ``very few Hindians understand Urdu``. Nonsense. I speak chaste Urdu every day and night with my family. Further let me remind you that Urdu is not native to Pakistan. It was born and nourished in Delhi, Lucknow, Hyderabad, and other cities, all of which are in India. Urdu is a derative of the Khadi Bholi language spoken in the Delhi environs. Linguists classify Urdu as an Indo European language of the Sanskritic branch...check any linguistic source or reference book. In grammar and structure it is a 100% equivalent of Hindi, but has been overlaid with a rich amount of beautiful Persian and Arabic words. A Hindi speaker from UP or MP or Rajasthan can easily pick up Urdu, not so a Punjabi from the heart of Paksitan.

The true languages of Pakistan are Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, and Baluch, NOT URDU which has no roots in the soil of Paksitan.

Stuebaker, I surmise that you are a Muhajir?

Dr Ali Akbar Poonawala

Jammu India.

Re Sigalph

No, I am not carried away. The reason Benazir could not maintain rule in Pakistan was due to the Mullah lobby that did her in.

She has matured and changed. The corruption charges against her have never been proved in a Court that followed DUE PROCESS OF LAW. Unless DUE PROCESS OF LAW is followed, these charges of corruption remain just that, charges.

I think Benazir will be willing to compromise on Kashmir which will lead to peace. I heard from informed friends that she is willing to concede LOC as a intertational border. In addition, she would grant Pakistani Occupied Kashmir, indedpendence.

Dr Poonawala

SammerJB

The roots of the Pakistan problem that you outline are valid and I thank you for providing a lot of supporting detail and argument.

However I feel the problems that you have mentioned are symptoms of a deeper cause...and that cause is Theocracy.

There are only 2 states that were established after WW2 as self proclaimed Theocracies..Israel and Pakistan. While Israel and Pakistan despise each other, their behavior is remarkably similar. They both treat minorities like dirt. There is no liberty for people of other religious persuasions. And there is a deep sense of insecurity over what it means to be Israeli or Pakistani.

The only way these artificial states can be kept alike is by whipping up a frenzy of nationalism. Also, both Israel and Pakistan are Racist states. Ethiopian Jews and brown jews from the Subcontinent are treated like dirt in Israel. And Paksitanis have brutalized the Bengalis in the name of race...both Israel and Pakistan are extremely color conscious socieities. I know the case of Pakistan as i travel often to Lahore and other cities to visit family.

What can be done now is to reverse the path of Islamization of Pakistan and for Pakistanis to realize that religion is a matter of private conscience. Pakistanis must start from scratch and find some basis for their national identity. This will be difficult. But we in India have done so and provide a good example for Pakistan. Pakistanis must give up their egotistical attitude and learn from the example next door.

That is the biggest hope for the great land of Pakistan.

Dr Ali Akbar Poonawala

Jammu, India.

SammerJB

The roots of the Pakistan problem that you outline are valid and I thank you for providing a lot of supporting detail and argument.

However I feel the problems that you have mentioned are symptoms of a deeper cause...and that cause is Theocracy.

There are only 2 states that were established after WW2 as self proclaimed Theocracies..Israel and Pakistan. While Israel and Pakistan despise each other, their behavior is remarkably similar. They both treat minorities like dirt. There is no liberty for people of other religious persuasions. And there is a deep sense of insecurity over what it means to be Israeli or Pakistani.

The only way these artificial states can be kept alike is by whipping up a frenzy of nationalism. Also, both Israel and Pakistan are Racist states. Ethiopian Jews and brown jews from the Subcontinent are treated like dirt in Israel. And Paksitanis have brutalized the Bengalis in the name of race...both Israel and Pakistan are extremely color conscious socieities. I know the case of Pakistan as i travel often to Lahore and other cities to visit family.

What can be done now is to reverse the path of Islamization of Pakistan and for Pakistanis to realize that religion is a matter of private conscience. Pakistanis must start from scratch and find some basis for their national identity. This will be difficult. But we in India have done so and provide a good example for Pakistan. Pakistanis must give up their egotistical attitude and learn from the example next door.

That is the biggest hope for the great land of Pakistan.

Dr Ali Akbar Poonawala

Jammu, India.

Shammi

Thank you for pointing out the atrocities occuring in Kashmir, for which Pakistan and India must endure the blame.

The saddest thing is that these atrocities are being commited primarily by non Kashmiris in the name of Islam

We must press for the immediate conversion of LOC into a hard and fast boundary. Further, there must be free trade and transit between Indian and Pakistani Kashmir.

As a Doctor, almost every week I treat patients in my clinic who are physical victims of the so called Kashmir problem. Let Indian Kashmiris get on with their lives and the huge task of integrating with the rest of India. And let Pakistani Kashmiris get on with their lives.

Dr Ali Akbar Poonawala

Jammu

Re: Romair

``...like many people, I do not agree with Pakistanis going into Afghanistan to fight with the Taliban...``

But you verifiably agree to the same when they go and do the same in Kashmir even when everyone ranging from the APHC, J&K Govt., Govt. of India, Bhutto, US Govt. demands that it stop.

Arrrested Development....379.

Now why did you spoil it so soon? I was looking forward to play along with this undercover you-know-who.

His posts are hilarious.Let us see how he reincarnates as now.

Zafar-ul-Taalib:380

I do know some movies were made.In Pakistan Zarqua was made about the Paletinian issue.Janbaaz Goreelay(or so)played to packed crowds in London.Sazai-Kalaa Paani is a very well made recent movie(songs are great).But I still think it is the Bengalis & Southies only who have the mustang-like rebel in them....refusing to be tamed for the circus called ``western progress``.

The rest of us Indo-Pakis love to work-things-out in the classic baniaa-shopkeeper fashion.

It is a sad sign for humanity when the world is in the hands of traders & tradesmen.Chivalry & Morality become dim when such compromisers are around.

PS:``Annand Math`` is still my favourite,despite Bankam Chatterjees anti-muslim(anti corrupt-muslim perhaps)slant.Nine-hours-to-Rama is another great one(better gripping drama than Gandhi).