The Price

re sherdil from the other board

``Regardless of the governing parties that will come in Afghanistan, Pakistan needs to make sure that it now follows a policy that has the welfare and security of Afghans in mind...``

That`s exectly where the problem begins. The only thing PAKISTAN needs to make sure is mind its business on the EASTERN side of the Durand Line. Create a democracy, grow respect for human rights, erase apartheid laws, use some of the American zakat to pay off the crushing debt etc etc. Pakistan has a lot to do within its borders.

Why do so many Pakistanis think that they have some kind of a mandate with respect to Afghanistan (Indians have this fascination with Nepal and Bhutan)?

Please, no `ummah` answers. That is probably the nastiest, dirtiest, most pathetic word in the int`l relations thesarus right now.

Re: Hamidm #133

``...is the disgusting glee that the horrid hindustanis display at pakistan`s real or perceived misfortune...``

I would like to think that I do not fall in the category that you have defined above, but maybe according to you I do -- I will let you be the judge of that. Perhaps you could give some advice on how India could help Pakistan. I have proposed several times that India, instead of purchasing new weapon systems, use that money to retire Pakistan`s external debt in exchange for a lasting peace treaty. None other Rajanjua turned it down. Would you, too?

Re: Hamidm

I loathe politicians. I loathe dictators even more (especially, if they are prone to sending people who like blowing up things here or there). I can only resist them (dictators) through puny keystrokes. Much as I sometimes feel like, I have not yet reached a point where I would like to responding in kind.

....just to show that i bear no ill will to any, i will share the secret with you all ........

......... it is all in the cheese cloth - yes butter soaked cheese-cloth to cover the bird from neck to drumstick ...no bag - please, never....and basting ... basting every twenty minutes ... fifteen minutes per pound at 370 degrees ......

........ as usual the bird is turning out to picture perfect ....the potatoes are on the boil to be mashed with garlic, sour cream and more butter ... now if i could only find an indian or two to share the feast with ......

Ref hamidm #: 133

[........what is even more disgusting are the stories and innuendo that the indian propaganda machine churns out at the drop of a dhoti ...... ]

Would you be so kind as to make it a sari instead of a dhoti? Not all of us belong to the same persuasion as Ali1.

Indians should show real grief by declaring 7 days of state mourning for the following reasons:

1. Pakistan did not get F16s from USA

2. Afghanistan will be dominated by NA and Pakistan does not get along with it

3. Pakistani Brigadiers and soldiers got trapped providing only ``moral and political support`` to Talibans. NA used to complain about it much earlier. But we all know it was just Hindu/Jewish propaganda

4. Poor Pakistanis will have two unfriendly neighbors for the first time. India had it for decades but then that’s horrible hindoos’ fate

5. Rather than appreciating ``ISI’s full support`` to US intelligence and air campaign, US used its own brain by supporting NA and targeting Taliban positions and Pakistanis got caught with their pants down

6. What’s more, there are articles after articles on Pakistani nuclear scientists with L-Quaeda connections and 39,000 schools churning out Taliban graduates faster than market can absorb. Americans are attacking the supply and demand side of this business

I wonder if US policy makers are not thinking like Vito Corleone, who said to Tom after meeting of all Mafia family heads - Tattalgias (Afghans) are just pimps, Barzini (?) is the real source of problem.

Ref Mullah321 #: 112

[Actually, if India had ever been able to produce a statesman, we wouldnt have had the military becoming so prominent in Pakistan. If Indian politicians had accepted the creation of Pakistan gracious manner, if Indian politicians had not had this urge to grab every piece of real estate they could get their hands on after partition, if Indian politicians had not been driven by this need to prove themselves to be a ``Great Power``, the entire South Asia would have been a much more prosperous, peaceful and (yes) nuclear free zone. If the taliban were the result of the policies of ISI and the Pakistan military, the Pakistan military itself gained power due to the short-sighted, jingoistic Indian politicians.]

Oh yeah! It is the hated hindoos who made Pakistan into a theocracy. It is the hated Hindu-Jewish conspirators who flew those planes into the WTC towers. It is the same hated Hindu-Jewish conspirators who forced the Taliban to destroy the Buddha statues in Bamiyan.

Aren`t you tired of repeating this crap over and over again? Try peddling it at the local mosque. They will lap it up.

Musharraf at a UN press conference :

http://www.un.org/News/briefings/docs/2001/

pakistanpc.doc.htm

One correspondent wondered whether

Afghans would either forget or forgive Pakistan

for being the primary supporters of the

Taliban.  Mr. Musharraf denied that was the

case, saying that Pakistan had to deal with the

Taliban due to the realities on the ground -

they had been the only party in control of a

neighbouring country. 

 

But having political relations with a party did

not mean accepting everything they did, he

continued.  The Taliban were not created by

Pakistan, they were indigenous, and Pakistan

was neither equipping them nor cooperating

with them militarily.  “Whatever military

resources we have”, he said, “there is an

Eastern direction we would like to concentrate

them on”, not on Afghanistan.

shammi #121 I am by no means absolving Pakistani leaders from blame in creating the mess of relations with India. All I am saying is that Indian politicians are to blame for this as well. And I may add that both the Indian and Pakistani leadership are members of the same middle class that one sees on chowk: the middle class that is treats the poverty stricken millions of the subcontinent as invisible men (how many people on chowk bring up poverty as an issue, or seem to care two hoots about it?). It is the characterless Fesaadis of the subcontinent who write posts flaunting their petty hatreds and their petty chauvinisms on chowk that explains why Indians and Pakistanis will be the camp followers of the world, never the leaders. A source of problems, not solutions. It will take them a couple of generations to grow out of their slavish thinking that countless generations of kingships and foreign rules has pushed them into.

dost-mittar #121 So we can commiserate together on the inability of India to come up with statesmen, and of Pakistan to come up with any either. So, things will get better due to other things beyond the control of the incompetent political leadership - India and Pakistan will move forward by hanging on to the coat-tails of societies that are expanding the frontiers of science and technoology, not due to any innate capacity to forge ahead in a progressive manner.

shammi #124 Actually, Musharaff is not alone. There are many Pakistanis (many of them expats who left successful careers in the West for this purpose) who are working very hard to move Pakistan in a progressive direction. And I suspect there are better days ahead: Afghanistan is bound to get a lot of attention and funds, and will most likely become a progressive state in the years ahead - the fact is that situation in Afghanistan created more problems for Pakistan than people realize (with a few million refugees, drug smugglers, kalashnikov-culture types and so on), so stabilization of this neigbor to the west would be a blessing for all of us. They may be mad at Pakistan for foisting the taliban on them, but I dont think that matters very much - stable governments work towards the common interest of peace with their neigbors, and do not hang on to grudges. The same is true for Pakistan`s relations with India - a stable Pakistan is in the interest of India just like a stable Afghanistan is in the interests of Paksitan. So, anything India does to help stabilize things in Pakistan is ultimately in it`s own interest. I think Vajpayee understands that, but I am not sure if some others around him do.

tvarad #@127 ``Pakistanis in general feel, they should quietly roll up their nationhood, call it a day and melt into the sands of history.``

isnt 50 years of denial enough? Pakistan wont roll up it`s nationhood, and India cant roll it up for Pakistan either, so better learn to deal with it.

Rsaxena #128 Thank you for taking the time from your busy schedule to post your profound thoughts. I am left speechless and unable to respond, as usual.

hamidm #129 I find it hard to believe that a child brought up in the US, and particularly in a US suburb as you probably live in, would dream of putting down someone due to ethnic or religious reasons. It is only the first generation desis, who sometimes seem incapable of overcoming some of the worst habits of South Asia - ancient hatreds and so forth. The second generation tends to think of themselves as Americans first and last and not has hindus or christians or whatever. And try saying something against any ethnic group in front of them and they will get really upset. I am certain you misunderstood what your daughter said.

Prem #132 Thank you. You put it much better than I could. I admire your patience.

Shandana,

Not one of your better articles. Too many grammatical errors. Way too many for someone who is a journalist. Seems like it was written in a hurry.

Does manduck have a website.