The Clash Of Un-Civilizations And Osama-ism

YLH

I never disagreed with your stand on secularism, a uniform civil code without any separate personal laws, etc. The only disagreement that I have with you is over personalities, not the value system. If you get over with your obsession with personalities and talk only about the values as mentioned above, there is hardly any difference in our opinions. Another commonality in our views is that both of us are highly appreciative of Jews who have carved a niche for themselves despite being victims of persecution throughout history. Ahmedis are another such group. All of us can learn a great deal with them. And finally another thing common between yourself, myself, Saxena, scout, anny, Kabuli etc is that all of us are supposedly young and it is time we start concentrating more on getting dates.

tahmed

`If poster x (poonawala) writes something incorrect about poster y (you), why does poster y expect poster z (self) to come and correct poster x??`

Because poster z in the past has stood up for every poster a to w when they have been wronged. Believe me poster y is capable of fighting his own battles, but poster y finds poster z`s silence as hypocritical and offensive.

Sincerely

Yasser

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Ladies and gentlemen,

Please read the following reply by Dr sahib who claims to a patriotic `secular` Indian. It seems to me that those who question the legitimacy of Pakistan and Israel as nation states with nations based on common religious customs have one thing in common. They `use` words like `secularism` and `democracy` but dont adhere to them, themselves. They speak of `unjust` basis for such nationstates, as if someone asked them. They make violently anti-semitic (and in the case of Indians, anti-Pakistan) statements.

Ehud Barak, a true gentleman, was on Charlie Rose last night. He said `we dont want Arabs to accept Israel as a fact, because we exist and we are strong enough to exist on our own. We want them to respect the principle of Israel as a Zionist Democratic state, Israel is a jewish nation and is proud to be one`.

Kindly see the similarities between what I have been saying... and what Mr. Ehud Barak said. I hope in the future Mr. Rsaxena will stick to his `who cares what pakistanis think, Israel exists and thus it is a fact`, and accord the same courtesy to Pakistan as well, or is Rsaxena practising double standards?



THE GREAT INDIAN `SECULARIST` POONAWALLA`S RACIST ANTI-SEMITIC POST:

PoonawaIIa

` YLH216

``I totally stand for Pakistan`s recognition of Israel and Pakistan`s normalization of relations with Israel. Infact it is a private short term ambition of mine to be Pakistan`s first Ambassador to Israel.``

-Yasser



I recognise ONLY YEHUDI kE BETE

Israeli men are just by product of female breed ,thats why most of israelis are not recognized by rabbi themselves b/c as true jews,they have christian american wives.One more reason why Yehuda Goldsteen is Son In law of hesus christae !`



Tsk tsk .. the ugly face of bias. I believe it is only circumstantial that Poonavalla was born in India and that`s the reason he now calls himself secular Indian patriot. Had he been born in Afghanistan, he probably would have been in the frontlines of the Taliban fighting to death.

Then he makes this stupid stupid comment:

`Please remember, the day a separete Sindhu Desh and Pakhtoonistan are recognized by Pakistan, India will recognize an independent Kashmir. Till then, Kashmir will be part of India, just as POK (Pakistani Occupied Kashmir) will be part of Pakistan.`

Ok agreed... You hold a plebisicite in Kashmir according to the UN resolutions, and we will hold a plebiscite in NWFP and Sind. This fool thinks that people in NWFP and Sind are ready to secede. The fact is that opportunist leaders like Abdul Ghaffar Khan, his son Wali Khan and GM Syed all were rejected by the people of those provinces.. with PPP emerging as a national force in Sind...

Kashmir DOESNOT belong to India. It belongs to the people of Kashmir. If the people of Kashmir want to be with India, well and good, but in order to determine that you need to hold a plebiscite there .. something which your regime has failed to do.

-Yasser Latif Hamdani

Romair,

I am sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about. First of all it wasn`t Zulfikar Ali Bhutto who made Pakistan the `Islamic Republic`. Pakistan became the `Islamic` Republic by the constitution of 1954 which was implemented on the 23rd of March 1956. Granted that Pakistan was in all other respects a modern democratic state but the confessionalism stems from that date... why? Because the secular liberals gave into the wishes of the Mullahs to quiet them down. This is called `Chamberlainism`. It was this reason why Jinnah had fallen out with the rest of the Muslim League leadership and the reason they hadn`t been able to agree on a constitution in that first crucial year.

It is not the question of Democracy, Romair that if people of Pakistan want Pakistan to be an Islamic state, we should make it an Islamic state. Bhutto did this. He introduced lipservice to Islam to please the people. He might have been secular and the state might have been progressive under him, but in constitution Pakistan was no secular under him.

You talk of the wishes of the people but had it not been for Thomas Jefferson`s `secular fanaticism` you wont be living in the United States today. Americans after the war of Independence wanted to make United states a Protestant republic, the Kingdom of God, but it was Thomas Jefferson, along with Washington, who stood in their way. They said `USA is not founded on Christian, Judaic or Mohammaden faiths`. This is the reason why US is where it is... a beacon of light to all humanity.

Pakistan is a Muslim Nation. I dont deny that, actually I am proud of it. I want Pakistan to become the beacon of light to all Muslim nations of the World. However, A STATE cant have a state religion. A STATE cant give preferential treatment to any faith no matter how much in minority. A STATE cant discriminate on the basis of religion caste or creed. This is what `secularism` is. And if fighting for this is `secular fanaticism` then so be it. Then Jinnah the founder of Pakistan was also one. For he refused.. he refused to let toadies and little men who had been leading in the past to dictate such a censure on the people of Pakistan.

Yes Jinnah fought for the Muslims.. and yes he was a communalist atleast in the struggle for Pakistan, but when it came to the state he put his foot down. Why did he step down from the presidency of the Muslim League on 17th December 1947... He said `I can no longer in good conscience continue to head an avowedly communal organization while being the Governor General of Pakistan`... He had delivered the Muslims of what is now Pakistan and Bangladesh, not to make them oppress each others and their minorities.

So maybe Jinnah was wrong. Maybe his estimate that Muslims as a Majority would be more egalitarian was wrong. Maybe Jinnah was looking too much into the Philosophies of both Islam and Hinduism, and not taking into account how both Muslim community and Hindu community had developed. The truth is that how Jinnah read Islam was true. Islam was a faith of equality and fraternity of humanity. However Jinnah was wrong about Muslims. Muslims are not egalitarian, and they dont believe in fraternity of man. And true Hinduism has the caste system and is perhaps the least egalitarian religion in its spirit. But Hindus of today are much more egalitarian and fraternal than Muslims....

When a moderate educated person like Romair speaks against Pakistan becoming secular, and when even the most extremist of Hindus sees secularism as a virtue one is forced to conclude that Jinnah made a major miscalculation about Muslims... he judged Muslims according to the egalitarian doctrine of Islam... he should have judged them by what they are... if Hindus were bad, Muslims were worse. A conclusion that has been adequately proved by Pakistanis, and Indian Muslims alike. LESSON: Dont judge a people by what their religion preaches.

There shall be only one creed of Pakistan:

`You may belong to any religion caste or creed- that has nothing to do with the business of the state` (Jinnah 11th August 1947)

And we will make it so... you Romair can call it `secular fanaticism`, `Islamic egalitarianism` or `democracy` ... but this is what Pakistan will become one day, Inshallah!

``US military action in Afghanistan has almost 100 percent to do with 9/11 events. I said very early on that US government, being democratic, has a responsility to provide justice to those citizen who lost their lives and to businesses who lost their businesses because by virtue of electing a government and paying almost four months of earning every year as taxes is meant to buy exactly that.`` SameerJB

John Pilger, writing in the 26 November 2001 issue of New Statesman, in a article titled ``The truths they never tell us`` writes:

``The twin towers attacks provided the Bush`s Washington with a trigger and a remarkable coincidence. Pakistan`s former foreign minister Niaz Naik has revealed that he was told by senior American officials in mid-july that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by middle of october. The US secretary of state, Colin Powell, was then travelling in Central Asia, already gathering support for an anti-Afghanistan war ``coalition``. For Washington, the real problem with the taliban was not human rights; these were irrelevant. The taliban regime simply did not have total control of Afghanistan: a fact that deterred investors from financing oil and gas pipelines from the Caspian Sea, whose strategic position in relation to Russia and China and whose largely untapped fossil fuels are of crucial interest to the Americans. In 1998, Dick Chenney told oil industry executives: ``I cannot think of a time when we have had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian.``

``Indeed, when the Taliban came to power in 1996, not only were they welcomed by Washington, their leaders were flown to Texas, then governed by George W Bush, and entertained by executives of the Unocal oil company...A US offical observed that Afghanistan would become ``like Saudi Arabia``, an oil colony with no democracy and the legal persecution of women. ``We can live with that,`` he said. The deal fell through when two American embassies in east Africa were bombed and Al-Qaeda was blamed.``

ROMAIR AND URSTRULY-ISM

I`ve just realized that how naïve I am/was. First I only thought that Romair`s # 121 although a very intelligent analysis was just another post. But since the time I`ve read it, it is stuck to my mind. Now I realize the depth and intellect in it. In my opinion the phenomenon that Romair has described should be taught in the schools and universities under the subjects of social psychology, sociology, anthropology, strategic studies, civics and what not. Now I don’t know if Romair is really an intelligent person or did it just happen like Alexander Flemming discovered penicillin by accidentally sneezing into his petri dish- but I would like to think the former.

In order to understand his post there are two factors that should be understood fully. The first factor is what I call the ``Cusp Civilizations`` (I invented this terminology). A cusp civilization in my opinion is a civilization that comes into being by an interaction of two civilizations at their geographically sharp borders. This sub-civilization is a subset of both parent civilizations. Huntington has defined Indian (Hindu) civilization and Confucian (Chinese) Civilizations as being two distinct civilizations, but what about the Indo-China ``civilization`` which is neither fully Indo neither Confucian. This civilization starts from Nepal, Burma, Thailand, Vietnam, and includes Malaysia, Indonesia, and probably Philippines etc. This is a Cusp Civilization. Similarly the Asia Minor from Turkey to Turkemanistan may be called a Cusp civilization, which has Euro-Asian features.

The second factor is the cultural factor. The Cusp civilizations exhibit features of both civilizations. And according to Huntington or any other social scientist, culture although a big identifier of a civilization, is still a subset of a broader civilization.

Now if we extrapolate these two factors on Romair`s # 121 the situation becomes very clear. The Muslims in subcontinent are a Cusp Civilization between predominantly Islamic Civilization in the West and predominantly Hindu civilization in the East. On one hand they exhibit strong cultural identifiers with the subcontinent they exhibit even stronger religious identifiers with the Islamic civilization.

Now creation of Pakistan may be seen in this retrospective. As per Romair`s thesis the Muslims of the Subcontinent actually did divorce the Indian (Hindu) civilization. And this separation looks very sharp and also very blunt because it wasn’t a process spread over centuries, the way the civilizations act, it was abrupt. It resulted because of a conscious and collective decision by a Cusp Civilization to fully identify itself with one civilization only. So the Cultural aspect becomes even more recessive. Historically, Punjab (and Bengal) was at the forefront of this ``clash`` between the civilizations hence the local culture becomes even more recessive. The Islamic influence thus dominates. The Western provinces like Baluchistan and NWFP were away from this clash and hence there was not much cultural consciousness that arose. It wouldn`t have happened in Sindh either but the influx of Mohajirs changed that perception (of Sindhis) - Mohajir being at the forefront of this clash of civilization as well along with Punjab.

The process of reversion to previous order of the civilizations is irreversible, as both civilizations where the line of demarcation was drawn, try to enforce their new identities to preserve their new order. Therefore, again the Romair`s thesis makes sense when people from Hindusteen try desperately to discredit the partition. This explains the reason why so many people from Hindusteen, even those who use Muslims names were psychotically somersaulting as if their suppositories were on fire, as soon as this article came out. And Romair`s thesis again is right when he says that all these efforts to discredit the existence of Pakistan and its founder is because of the inherent fear when Hindus sees and associate another separation by its own Muslim population with a loss of land. So today, a Hindu can never be sympathetic to his fellow Muslim citizen in India and especially the areas like Kashmir. That also explains the existence of inhuman laws and inhuman treatment of Kashmiris by the Hindus because he is incapable of looking at Kashmiri as his fellow citizen, Kashmir is merely a piece of land. And another important corollary that we reach from this discussion is that India will never ever let Kashmiris decide their future through a political process. It will never let it go through a democratic process either. And after so much damage is done the Kashmir will never want to stay with India. And this retrospective when Hindu religious nuts talk about revoking the citizenship rights of Indian Muslims, call them foreigners, and discriminate them on the basis of religion they are actually doing God`s work for further disintegration of India. And so is any other Hindu when he insults Islam and Muslims of any part of the world. A food for thought (for Hindus).

Romair`s thesis helped a lot in understanding this phenomenon, which I would like to name after me as ``Urstruly-ism`` if he allows. Thank you Romair. Dear Readers, what is your input.

anNy

[no feelings of hate for hinduism or revulsion at what is a starkly differing and (excuseme) somewhat comical mythology and religion came up}

huh?

anNy, I reckon we can make a case for every religion being somewhat comical.

Did you think before writing that?

“"So the fundamentalist movement in is not backword looking it is forward looking-it has vision-and determination to be one of the movers and shakers and stop being a cork floating aimlessly on the surface of water

A “gem” of a paragraph!

To only a fundamentalist ass -- rider -- facing the ass of a backing ass – it will look -- ”the Islamic world is not backword looking it is forward looking””.

And what a high fluting original advice -- “stop being a cork floating aimlessly on the surface of water” – yes, yes, INDEED -- quit floating aimlessly like a CORK -- INSTEAD – ORGANIZE – and start being LEMMINGS -- streaming in line -- towards the “surface of the water “– for en masse DROWNING –--- LIKE in Afghanistan!

Only a crummy, ignorant, deluded fundamentalist would utter such NONSENSE -- by going backward – you’re actually going forward — man, what a delusion – the whole stinking debacle and bloody fiasco of that shitty CONCEPT called -- “PURE” Islami Hukoomutt -- run by one-eyed-village mulla-on-the run -- has not done one bit good – hasn’t opened one god-damn eye -- as to what these ISLAMIST MORONS have DONE to the community – so many precious Muslim lives lost, needlessly – so many Muslim mothers without sons in an instant – so many Muslims women widowed overnight – no regrets -- no remorse -– no self introspection -- no self criticism –- no self analysis –- only this pseudo intellectual asinine blather.

No wonder the ummah is getting such a beating -- from every corner of the world.

Wadera

Your pathetic sleuthing betrays your utter ignorance. You are clearly one of those Pakistanis who cannot accept the existence of a patriotic Indian Muslim.

Well let me tell you that there are many like me. Perhaps that is like a dagger in the heart of the Two Nation Theory. And thats why you are squirming.

It also shows that you are ignorant of true grass roots workers. Many people are quitely doing their business of helping others and are afraid of too much publicity as it attracts unwanted attention with potentially awful consequences. Particularly in Kashmir. I know of a Muslim Doctor who was doing yeoman service in Kashmiri Pandit refugee camps only to be murdered by terrorists.

Please take great pleasure in your delusional discovery of my identity and my supposed oneness with Mr Yahuda Goldsteen. I hope this supposed achievement makes your existence a little more bearable.

And yes, Jammu is in India. Was in India. Will always remain in India.

The Subcontinent has already had 2 brutal partitions: that of India. And that of Pakistan. Do you really want to inflict a third one on the People of Kashmir, India and South Asia?

Please remember, the day a separete Sindhu Desh and Pakhtoonistan are recognized by Pakistan, India will recognize an independent Kashmir. Till then, Kashmir will be part of India, just as POK (Pakistani Occupied Kashmir) will be part of Pakistan.

Dr. Ali Akbar Poonawala

Doctors for the Poor

Jammu, India.

Ref shrunken-dick #: 177

[There is a nidus of truth in every joke. In that respect , I agree with Freud.]

Where did you learn about Freud... in the Self-Help section of the local bookstore?

[As a hindu;I can be as big a M-Fer as I want.]

No, you can`t. Incest isn`t acceptable to Hinduism. Just because you practice it doesn`t mean all Hindus do.

[I can follow the religion if I want to; curse it if I want to, eat all the beef my heat desires; NOBODY can ``fatwafy`` me, or ``excommunicate`` me. Other hindus can hate me; but whats so terrible about that?!]

As usual, you are wrong about the whole thing. History is full of instances where Brahmins who went to England for higher studies in the 19th century were excommunicated when they returned home. They were forced to undergo an expiation ceremony to return to the fold.

Do you absolutely positively have to display your ignorance in such a public fashion? Even I find it rather painful to watch, you know. How about checking with that other Janitorial Psychiatrist on Chowk on this obsessive-compulsive behavior?

[I LOVE the fact that someone like you HATES me! Just like your hindu counterpart, Harimou. Now he understands (eventhough he`s a retard).]

Calling me names doesn`t alter the fact that the only support you get on the Chowk is from Mullah231, Old-Faithful and FartsAnna.

By the way, why the hell aren`t you in Kabul with FartsAnna? Maybe she has the excuse that without Mullah Omar, Kabul isn`t the heaven on earth it used to be but I thought you have always wanted to drive your Jag on the streets of Kabul. Or is that Altamount Road in Bombay?

Pakistan tracII diplomacy working

because Osama bin Laden’s attacks were against the US on its soil, Kamal said India could not claim the same right.

Any terrorist attack in Kashmir was not on Indian soil since Kashmir was disputed territory, he argued.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/front_pa.htm#head5



MUSHARRAF MOUTHPIECES BUILD CASE FOR KASHMIR IN US

FROM K.P. NAYAR Washington, Dec. 4: Pervez Musharraf, who has been one step ahead of his new patrons in Washington and London since September 11, is revising his plans for Kashmir and for perpetuating himself in office like General Zia ul Haq, his predecessor in uniform.

Pakistan’s army of retired diplomats and generals who have been hyperactive in Track-II diplomacy across the US since the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington is busy redefining both the Kashmir conflict and the nature of Musharraf’s government.

Ahmed Kamal, who was Pakistan’s ambassador to the UN, put out an amazing theory in a TV interview in New York that Musharraf’s junta is not a dictatorship at all.

In a programme hosted by an Indian professor of journalism at Columbia University, Sreenath Sreenivasan, Kamal made many jaws drop by arguing that Musharraf, on the other hand, was the panacea for corruption and other evils, which thrived under two democratically elected Prime Ministers in Pakistan.

His theory on Kashmir was even more astounding. While America had every right to retaliate against Afghanistan because Osama bin Laden’s attacks were against the US on its soil, Kamal said India could not claim the same right.

Any terrorist attack in Kashmir was not on Indian soil since Kashmir was disputed territory, he argued.

The fight in Afghanistan was solely about terrorism, but Kashmir was a mix of terrorism and freedom struggle. The two needed to be sifted by the international community, Kamal argued.

Wiser from the miscalculations which led to the Northern Alliance, Pakistan’s bete noir, assuming control of Kabul last month, Musharraf is ensuring that his country’s huge investments in the insurgency in Kashmir is not similarly wasted once the conflict in Afghanistan is over.

Many leading Pakistanis like Kamal have begun plugging this twin line at Track-II events. It is Musharraf’s hope that eventually, this is bound to make some impact on the Bush administration and the US Congress, for two reasons.

First, there is unprecedented interest within America in Pakistan and policy-makers are seeking inputs, especially from academics and others engaged in the Track-II diplomacy.

Second, Pakistan has seized the opportunity offered by America’s war in Afghanistan and is flooding Track-II programmes with its men and women, leaving India a distant second in putting across its views.

Unlike in India, academics and those engaged in Track-II programmes in Pakistan are willing to play second fiddle to Pakistan’s administration, be it a dictatorship or an oligarchy like Nawaz Sharif’s and Benazir Bhutto’s.

The campaign here, depicting Musharraf as a knight in shining armour trying to rescue his country from evil politicians, is also meant to pre-empt the outcome of a possible return by either Benazir or Sharif from exile.

The family of Sharif’s younger brother, who was Punjab chief minister, has already returned to Lahore from Saudi Arabia, ostensibly to test the waters for ending the exile of the two politician brothers.

Benazir is known to be contemplating her return to Pakistan to prepare for elections, however flawed, which Musharraf has promised to hold in less than a year.

To nip any potential challenge from the two popular politicians and to crack down on dissent, Musharraf has to convince the West that he is not a dictator.

His minions on Track-II are, therefore, arguing that his administration is merely a transition arrangement which Pakistan desperately needs. Many Americans are apt to forget that Zia’s transition arrangement lasted 11 years.

The rumblings on Track-II about terrorism in Kashmir are also indicative of disquiet among Musharraf’s people about the Arab mujahideen in Kashmir.

Now that Islamabad has sided with the US in trying to crush Arab fighters in Afghanistan, Musharraf fears that the Arab mujahideen in Kashmir may no longer be amenable to his plans. Pakistan would like to root them out and have an insurgency in Kashmir, the agenda of which is scripted solely by the Inter-Services Intelligence.

YLH#216

``I totally stand for Pakistan`s recognition of Israel and Pakistan`s normalization of relations with Israel. Infact it is a private short term ambition of mine to be Pakistan`s first Ambassador to Israel.``



-Yasser

You totally against Taleban & looks like also Palestine.

If you dont forget what they teach you at Rutger ,you will lose your home land to India.AS it is Taleban minded people in pakistan are only restrained by govt.of P.M.with great effort temporarily & if you move even an inch more to the periphery you say good bye to your footing on the populace of Pakistan.

Looks like India is already making a move where even America stopped condemning israel for war against defenceless .

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=5217

India urges Israel to stop attacks on Palestine



Reuters

New Delhi, December 5: India said on Wednesday there was no justification for Israeli air strikes in Palestinian-ruled areas and called for restraint to save the peace process. Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh told Parliament the Israeli attacks in the Gaza strip and the West Bank city of Jenin in retaliation for a devastating wave of suicide bombings must stop. ``There is no justification for the attack. The need of the hour is to have restraint,`` he said after Opposition deputies demanded that the government make its stand clear. India, which has supported the Palestinian cause for decades, has in recent years developed friendly ties with Israel, including in military cooperation. Singh said the dispute in West Asia could only be resolved through dialogue and this must be resumed immediately. ``These attacks have frozen the peace process, we want the attacks should end immediately,`` he said. A surge of violence in Israel in the past week has threatened to wreck a new US West Asia peace drive and has increased concern that 14 months of violence is spiralling out of control after the deaths of at least 743 Palestinians and 222 Israelis. Israel has carried out two days of air strikes against Palestinian security installations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip after 25 people were killed in the worst wave of suicide bombings in years. The Israelis fired one missile near Palestinian President Yasser Arafat`s West Bank office while he was inside. A Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up on Wednesday, wounding three people in Jerusalem, when his bomb exploded prematurely.

Ref Romair #: 284

[I oppose Pakistan becoming the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, not because of the word Islamic, but because it was done against the people`s will. And I believe, this whole process was initiated by Bhutto. A person who was more secular than religious. He was unfortunately another one of Pakistan`s many leaders who committed the crime of giving his own wishes more importance than the wishes of the Pakistani people.]

The wishes of the so-called Pakistani people have never mattered. Go back and look at your history. Your majority population of Punjab was solidly against the creation of Pakistan. Your East Bengal population was, by 1970, solidly against remaining in Pakistan. In fact, they were not even allowed to form the majority government of all of Pakistan because they were just the darkies whom you fair-skinned Aryan descendants were bound to rule over. The Pakistani people never had any say in what happens to them and never will.... particularly if you simultaneously advocate another 10 years of dictatorship by Mushy.

[Ask any Pakistani, and he will be far more concerned with economic uplift and security. He could care less about secularism or Islamism.]

Ask any Pakistani? I am sure you would want me to exclude the mullahs and the graduates of the madrassahs? You know, the ones who have gone off bravely to Afghanistan to fight for their beliefs. How about all of you Pakistani doctors and engineers who contribute generously to ``charities`` back home knowing full well that the money goes to train some more automatons in the service of God? You know what I mean... the one who is La Ilahi il Allah Muhammad Rasoorullah.

[The name of the game is economics and security. Rest assured, no one migrates to obtain secularism or Islamism (or Hinduism).]

Isn`t it so convenient for you to ignore history? My ancestors did migrate to be able to practice Hinduism in peace; they migrated away from Moghul-ruled Narmada river basin to a place a thousand miles away so that they can be safe from the marauding thugs called Islamists. That is precisely why I was born and remain a Hindu. This is not the first instance. Parsis in India migrated from Iran to escape religious persecution. The source of their persecution? Islamist thugs once again. A coincidence? I don`t think so.

And let us not forget the poor Pundits of Kashmir Valley. What is your explanation for them leaving the Valley and settling in refugee camps in Delhi? Don`t quote FartsAnna about it all being engineered by the Government of India.

Difficult to face facts, isn`t it? Hey, this is the month of Ramada Inn, where you guys are supposed to introspect. Introspect all you want and come up with an excuse, even a lame-ass one, if you can.

I would like to alert the Chowk Staff and Other Interactors that someone named ``Poonawallah`` is interacting.

This individual is trying to cause mischief. HIS VIEWS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. I URGE CHOWK STAFF TO CHECK AND CEASE THIS MISCHIEF MONGERING.

WADERA:

I have no idea who these other interactors you accuse me of being are. I am ready to discourse with Yehuda Goldsteen or anyone else here, even an illiterate like Shah. I am sorry that your sletuthing skill are so poor. I could respond in kind but shall not do so as I am here for intellectual reasons. As you will observe from my post, I did not tell Farzana Ji that I dont want to be profiled, merely that I am wary of being profiled. Understand the difference. Or is too subtle?

SHAH

You post betrays your anti-Shia attitudes. It is people like you, not the Indian Army, who are destroying the pluralistic, vibrant culture of Kashmir.Go back to the villages of Sahiwal District where you belong and join up with your friends in the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan.

Dr Ali Akbar Poonawala

sadna 231,

many indians do not realise the systemic maling of hindus in pakistan. For a pakistani a hindu is an abstraction created by the likes of asfa1q ahmed, sayings like ` bagal mai churi, mooh mai ram ram`, by the curriculum requirement of identifying a hindu by the age of ten, and the pak.gov version of history.

This charecteristic of the children of TNt is very noticeable in ylh , sarwari, bina sha etc, beneath the vineer of sofistry created by the education harbours a pervasive insidious anti indian/hindu mindset. The earlier generation for whom the hindu was a human have a distinctly different out look towards india.

Many in india fail to notice this evolving change in pakistan. At an institutional level the above value system accounts for the legalisation of honour killings, blasphemy laws and above all the unbelievable mayopia of the educated to refuse the greatness and the achievements of abdus salam.

A well read person like urstruly has no hesitation to declare asfaq ahmed as a legend, but he will not write even a post detailing the life and achievements of abdus salam. Abdus salam is like anwar sheik and salman rusdie, no pakistani wants to write, the people killed by the ducated, the living dead, erased from history.