Giving Lip
Mahim Maher December 5, 2001
#45 Posted by scout on December 19, 2001 7:41:46 pm
DRUMZ #47,
you might get caught in the crossfire....so go home like a good little boy...i wish SOMEONE wouldn`t let his kids wander around in dangerous territory...i`m not responsible for any damage.
you might get caught in the crossfire....so go home like a good little boy...i wish SOMEONE wouldn`t let his kids wander around in dangerous territory...i`m not responsible for any damage.
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#42 Posted by Mahim Maher on December 15, 2001 12:42:52 pm
Dear Scout,
``what the hell do you mean....just go ahead and say it in plain English...is that so hard to do?``
Well, why the hell are you reading poetry if you want straight forward stuff in plain English. Go read ``Dawn`` newspaper then.
``what the hell do you mean....just go ahead and say it in plain English...is that so hard to do?``
Well, why the hell are you reading poetry if you want straight forward stuff in plain English. Go read ``Dawn`` newspaper then.
#41 Posted by anNy on December 15, 2001 12:20:27 am
Mahim
this is bout to go into the andhaeri back alleys of chowk..i wanted to say that i agree totally with your saying on this board or was it another? that by doing what u do best, u help pakistan..poetry, eating, writing, dancing, being funny.
pls write more (even though anything that doesnt rhyme flys by my head faster than a speeding bullet:))
anNy
this is bout to go into the andhaeri back alleys of chowk..i wanted to say that i agree totally with your saying on this board or was it another? that by doing what u do best, u help pakistan..poetry, eating, writing, dancing, being funny.
pls write more (even though anything that doesnt rhyme flys by my head faster than a speeding bullet:))
anNy
#40 Posted by harimau on December 11, 2001 8:35:05 pm
Ref Bijli #: 38
[Jay ,Harami.OU,Sux Sena ,India Backward? what am i hearing instead of super POWER??
Why we remain backward!
By: Mahmood Farooqui]
Mahmood Farooqui must be your brother in India maligning the land of his birth.
Why don`t you move to Pakistan if you find India so bad? You get your MBBS in India, come to the US and make money, and make noises about India. If you want to do something for your fellow Indian Muslims, send some money to a charitable organization.
Remember the cabbie in NYC who runs a school in his hoemtown in India? He is doing far more with far less income than you would ever do. That is because you lack generosity of spirit, you pathetic idiot.
[Jay ,Harami.OU,Sux Sena ,India Backward? what am i hearing instead of super POWER??
Why we remain backward!
By: Mahmood Farooqui]
Mahmood Farooqui must be your brother in India maligning the land of his birth.
Why don`t you move to Pakistan if you find India so bad? You get your MBBS in India, come to the US and make money, and make noises about India. If you want to do something for your fellow Indian Muslims, send some money to a charitable organization.
Remember the cabbie in NYC who runs a school in his hoemtown in India? He is doing far more with far less income than you would ever do. That is because you lack generosity of spirit, you pathetic idiot.
#39 Posted by hamzadafaqui on December 11, 2001 8:35:05 pm
For SameenaSah:
A couple of lines by Faiz:
Malika e shehr e zindgi tera
Shukr kis taur sey ada keejay
naimatO ka teree shumaar naheen
tangdastee kaa kyaa gilaa keejay
Jo teray husn key faquir huay
unn ko tashveesh e roaz gaar kahaan.
dard baichayn gey geet gaayen gey
iss sey khush vaqt kar o baar kahaan.
(If you want I`ll also send a brief tashreeh).
A couple of lines by Faiz:
Malika e shehr e zindgi tera
Shukr kis taur sey ada keejay
naimatO ka teree shumaar naheen
tangdastee kaa kyaa gilaa keejay
Jo teray husn key faquir huay
unn ko tashveesh e roaz gaar kahaan.
dard baichayn gey geet gaayen gey
iss sey khush vaqt kar o baar kahaan.
(If you want I`ll also send a brief tashreeh).
#38 Posted by Bijli on December 11, 2001 4:00:14 pm
Jay ,Harami.OU,Sux Sena ,India Backward? what am i hearing instead of super POWER??
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=157158
Why we remain backward!
By: Mahmood Farooqui
December 7,2001
[]
C L Dosajh, that venerable textbook writer, provided one of the great joys of studying economics at school. Although the books changed every year, his explanations for some of the fundamental economic truths of India remained unchanged.
Agriculture, poverty, population, underdevelopment, all was accounted for by the backwardness of Indian farmers. Lacking a scientific temper, they invested not in their farms, but on ``wasteful`` matters such as weddings. It is now the wedding season in India, and ``wasteful`` expenditure abounds everywhere, nowhere more so than in big cities where we live. Perhaps that is why our cities remain backward.
Ostentatious display of wealth has always been an important way of affirming status within agrarian societies. Following the decline of traditional occasions for convivial hospitability such as festivals, rituals associated with death and coming of age ceremonies - where one played out one`s social role and status - Indians now have fewer opportunities of displaying wealth on a social scale.
Weddings have come to fulfil that lacuna, especially in cities. Festivities associated with it are a way of inviting participation in one`s wealth, not so much with a view to share it, but to ensure a public display of one`s status. Status is about how others see us, and executing a wedding in the accepted ways is a means of creating as well as upholding commonly shared values. That is why the barat is usually a public procession, allowing the world to see it.
The barat, a literary historian told me, is celebratory because its roots lie in the practice of looting women. The wedding band announces one`s victory, and therefore guns are sometimes fired. Undoubtedly the privilege accorded to the barat also emerges from the subservient status of women in our society. It is the apotheosis of maleness, where a collective can claim superiority over another similar one, simply because it is associated with the groom. That superiority can be and is expressed in a multiplicity of ways. In areas of Braj society in Western Uttar Pradesh, there is a practice of humiliating the bride`s family, which is known as `phajeeta uraana`, that is `to mock`. One demands only one particular item of food until it finishes and the bride`s family has been shown up to be inadequately hospitable.
I recently attended such a barat in UP. Since early morning at the groom`s house a shehnai and a dhol player had been diligently serenading the coming event, but towards evening an orchestra-cum-band also arrived. The band is today an indispensable part of all weddings, and for something regarded as traditional it is spectacularly modern, both in origin and in appearance. It originated in the army bands introduced to India by the British along with the newly drilled, uniformed and disciplined armies in the 18th century. The irony doesn`t end there. All its instruments are western, yet it now only plays Hindi film tunes. The band members dress in semi-military regalia, yet most of them are poor and often barefoot.
By the time we set out we were more than two hours late. Leading the procession was the orchestra van, an improvised cart without brakes or steering which was being pushed by four men. Then came the two columns of the band. Behind them were the lights, attached to gardening pots and held in position by young boys on top of their heads. The boys were barely 13, most walked barefoot, and were not allowed a moment`s rest through the march.
The contrast between the festivity of the procession and the wretched misery of the light boys was glaring, yet the baratis decent god-fearing people all of them, remained oblivious. We took two hours to cover the distance of barely a kilometre because the procession halted every few minutes when people were dragged in to join the dancers in the middle. I was told that a delay of two hours was considered mandatory to ensure that the bride`s family knew its place.
What is curious is that most of the baratis were educated, liberal professionals, who otherwise would oppose child labour and male chauvinism but were yet happily consenting to both. They also did not seem unduly perturbed by the large number of beggars who crowded the pandal for leftovers from the feast. This apparent contradiction between conduct and ideology may seem surprising if one overlooks the fact that what people do and what they say they do are incommensurate categories. The heavy yoke of custom bound the people attending that barat, just as it does the extravagant farmers of Dosajh. In both cases we are playing out social roles that confirm our status.
The bored band, the barefoot light boys and the beseeching beggars are important because it is through them that we assert our difference. The barat will remain as long as there are these onlookers. So perhaps will the backwardness that disturbed Dosajh.
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=157158
Why we remain backward!
By: Mahmood Farooqui
December 7,2001
[]
C L Dosajh, that venerable textbook writer, provided one of the great joys of studying economics at school. Although the books changed every year, his explanations for some of the fundamental economic truths of India remained unchanged.
Agriculture, poverty, population, underdevelopment, all was accounted for by the backwardness of Indian farmers. Lacking a scientific temper, they invested not in their farms, but on ``wasteful`` matters such as weddings. It is now the wedding season in India, and ``wasteful`` expenditure abounds everywhere, nowhere more so than in big cities where we live. Perhaps that is why our cities remain backward.
Ostentatious display of wealth has always been an important way of affirming status within agrarian societies. Following the decline of traditional occasions for convivial hospitability such as festivals, rituals associated with death and coming of age ceremonies - where one played out one`s social role and status - Indians now have fewer opportunities of displaying wealth on a social scale.
Weddings have come to fulfil that lacuna, especially in cities. Festivities associated with it are a way of inviting participation in one`s wealth, not so much with a view to share it, but to ensure a public display of one`s status. Status is about how others see us, and executing a wedding in the accepted ways is a means of creating as well as upholding commonly shared values. That is why the barat is usually a public procession, allowing the world to see it.
The barat, a literary historian told me, is celebratory because its roots lie in the practice of looting women. The wedding band announces one`s victory, and therefore guns are sometimes fired. Undoubtedly the privilege accorded to the barat also emerges from the subservient status of women in our society. It is the apotheosis of maleness, where a collective can claim superiority over another similar one, simply because it is associated with the groom. That superiority can be and is expressed in a multiplicity of ways. In areas of Braj society in Western Uttar Pradesh, there is a practice of humiliating the bride`s family, which is known as `phajeeta uraana`, that is `to mock`. One demands only one particular item of food until it finishes and the bride`s family has been shown up to be inadequately hospitable.
I recently attended such a barat in UP. Since early morning at the groom`s house a shehnai and a dhol player had been diligently serenading the coming event, but towards evening an orchestra-cum-band also arrived. The band is today an indispensable part of all weddings, and for something regarded as traditional it is spectacularly modern, both in origin and in appearance. It originated in the army bands introduced to India by the British along with the newly drilled, uniformed and disciplined armies in the 18th century. The irony doesn`t end there. All its instruments are western, yet it now only plays Hindi film tunes. The band members dress in semi-military regalia, yet most of them are poor and often barefoot.
By the time we set out we were more than two hours late. Leading the procession was the orchestra van, an improvised cart without brakes or steering which was being pushed by four men. Then came the two columns of the band. Behind them were the lights, attached to gardening pots and held in position by young boys on top of their heads. The boys were barely 13, most walked barefoot, and were not allowed a moment`s rest through the march.
The contrast between the festivity of the procession and the wretched misery of the light boys was glaring, yet the baratis decent god-fearing people all of them, remained oblivious. We took two hours to cover the distance of barely a kilometre because the procession halted every few minutes when people were dragged in to join the dancers in the middle. I was told that a delay of two hours was considered mandatory to ensure that the bride`s family knew its place.
What is curious is that most of the baratis were educated, liberal professionals, who otherwise would oppose child labour and male chauvinism but were yet happily consenting to both. They also did not seem unduly perturbed by the large number of beggars who crowded the pandal for leftovers from the feast. This apparent contradiction between conduct and ideology may seem surprising if one overlooks the fact that what people do and what they say they do are incommensurate categories. The heavy yoke of custom bound the people attending that barat, just as it does the extravagant farmers of Dosajh. In both cases we are playing out social roles that confirm our status.
The bored band, the barefoot light boys and the beseeching beggars are important because it is through them that we assert our difference. The barat will remain as long as there are these onlookers. So perhaps will the backwardness that disturbed Dosajh.
#37 Posted by rsaxena on December 9, 2001 11:25:21 pm
re: saminashah
``Why don`t you post some of your writing?``
...but i don`t do any writing...what could i post?..furthermore, i wouldn`t try to write unless i had hamdim`s skill...and i don`t, so...
``Why don`t you post some of your writing?``
...but i don`t do any writing...what could i post?..furthermore, i wouldn`t try to write unless i had hamdim`s skill...and i don`t, so...
#36 Posted by saminashah on December 9, 2001 9:34:59 pm
Yes, Rsax, I am ignoring. Day 1 of Ignoring.
Why don`t you post some of your writing?
regards
Why don`t you post some of your writing?
regards
#35 Posted by username on December 9, 2001 9:34:59 pm
ummm.. theek hai jee!
Mahim Reply #: 6
``If you fondle my trigger, don`t blame my gun``
Does this really mean what I`m thinking or am I just sick?!?
Ok, i got it. It`s the stress of finals...
Mahim Reply #: 6
``If you fondle my trigger, don`t blame my gun``
Does this really mean what I`m thinking or am I just sick?!?
Ok, i got it. It`s the stress of finals...
#34 Posted by rsaxena on December 9, 2001 2:28:27 pm
re: saminashah
...for an otherwise intelligent lady, you seem to be having a lot of difficulty figuring out a way to deal with the 12-head retard and his new friend :)
why not give ignoring a try?
...for an otherwise intelligent lady, you seem to be having a lot of difficulty figuring out a way to deal with the 12-head retard and his new friend :)
why not give ignoring a try?
#33 Posted by saminashah on December 9, 2001 10:23:23 am
A. Sahib,
Still no answer for why your post needed to be crass...probably because the rest of the world and the diversity of thoughts, beliefs, and culture are quite frightening to your mistaken superiority complex....I`m sure your Imam will reassure you. Btw, I am a student of poetry, and yes, we don`t heckle writers unless we have something to offer that`s better. First rule of being a credible writer. The truly great writers are humble anf supportive.
Bus, I will not argue with you anymore. You bear a resemblance to a multinicked interactor on Chowk.
good luck.
Still no answer for why your post needed to be crass...probably because the rest of the world and the diversity of thoughts, beliefs, and culture are quite frightening to your mistaken superiority complex....I`m sure your Imam will reassure you. Btw, I am a student of poetry, and yes, we don`t heckle writers unless we have something to offer that`s better. First rule of being a credible writer. The truly great writers are humble anf supportive.
Bus, I will not argue with you anymore. You bear a resemblance to a multinicked interactor on Chowk.
good luck.
#32 Posted by Prem on December 9, 2001 10:23:23 am
re: ahmed madani # 31
Dear Mr. Madani,
Thank you for the invite. I might just take you up on that.
I am glad you work at such an exclusive hotel, but agar aap itne achche hotel me kaam nahi bhi kar rahe hote, tau bhi aap agar itne pyar se bulaate tau mai zaroor aapki khidmat me haazir ho jaata.
Yes, my grandfather was a Hindu, just like my father is, and I am. Feel free to call me whatever you feel is appropriate. Infidel, or Fidel, it is all the same to me. Buss jau bhi bulaayein pyar aur mohabbat se bulaayein.
You send all your children to English Schools? That is aapka badappan and generosity toward your children. I know that couldnt be very easy for you, which, ofcourse, makes it all the more remarkable. Please convey my best wishes to all your beautiful children. I hope they do recognize the hardwork and sacrifice of their father (and, of course, their mother).
Currently the US IT market isn`t doing very well. There has been increased unemployment in that sector. So make all IT related plans with some care. But markets go up, and markets come down. You should follow your dreams. Those who don`t follow their dreams are fools.
Dear Mr. Madani,
Thank you for the invite. I might just take you up on that.
I am glad you work at such an exclusive hotel, but agar aap itne achche hotel me kaam nahi bhi kar rahe hote, tau bhi aap agar itne pyar se bulaate tau mai zaroor aapki khidmat me haazir ho jaata.
Yes, my grandfather was a Hindu, just like my father is, and I am. Feel free to call me whatever you feel is appropriate. Infidel, or Fidel, it is all the same to me. Buss jau bhi bulaayein pyar aur mohabbat se bulaayein.
You send all your children to English Schools? That is aapka badappan and generosity toward your children. I know that couldnt be very easy for you, which, ofcourse, makes it all the more remarkable. Please convey my best wishes to all your beautiful children. I hope they do recognize the hardwork and sacrifice of their father (and, of course, their mother).
Currently the US IT market isn`t doing very well. There has been increased unemployment in that sector. So make all IT related plans with some care. But markets go up, and markets come down. You should follow your dreams. Those who don`t follow their dreams are fools.
#31 Posted by ahmedmadani on December 9, 2001 1:39:35 am
reaction respose#25
Mr. Premji... thank very very much. I really feel good your happy mental estate.I hope you are non unhappy type. all unhappy people are mostly snob, fat, noesx or failed marriage etc you know all.and intersted in politics and too much talk and write ok. Any way this bloodless fight of Hindu and muslims.Ok your name is problom its like Uniesx.
I want to know (it is difficult to ask as modern man is all human). Not your religion i know all are sekular etc. Please tell me your grandparents religion? Were they believer or infidel(hindu according to me ok).I like everybody you know that.
Also about my plan to come to usa, do you think still worth takig chance in IT field? (my children getting ready slowly for usa- its hard for me but all go english school ok.
If expak come to our Hotel best in town for mony ok, second best on Dr.Z.uddinn RD(Khi). ok.
I wish you all happy thing ok. You will be so happy not to read my foolish write. I get tired sitting with bottom on chair. So write and get all knowledge and intelance ok . hope find time reply.
sd: Ahmed Madani. anyway good luck everybody
Mr. Premji... thank very very much. I really feel good your happy mental estate.I hope you are non unhappy type. all unhappy people are mostly snob, fat, noesx or failed marriage etc you know all.and intersted in politics and too much talk and write ok. Any way this bloodless fight of Hindu and muslims.Ok your name is problom its like Uniesx.
I want to know (it is difficult to ask as modern man is all human). Not your religion i know all are sekular etc. Please tell me your grandparents religion? Were they believer or infidel(hindu according to me ok).I like everybody you know that.
Also about my plan to come to usa, do you think still worth takig chance in IT field? (my children getting ready slowly for usa- its hard for me but all go english school ok.
If expak come to our Hotel best in town for mony ok, second best on Dr.Z.uddinn RD(Khi). ok.
I wish you all happy thing ok. You will be so happy not to read my foolish write. I get tired sitting with bottom on chair. So write and get all knowledge and intelance ok . hope find time reply.
sd: Ahmed Madani. anyway good luck everybody
#30 Posted by hamzadafaqui on December 9, 2001 1:39:35 am
saminashah---29
What defence?In case you do not comprehend something written in average english let me write at your level--a notch or two less than the english madressah(convent)type.
I despise what you approve.I consider it vulgar the very ``FREEDOM`` to exhibit your fart as art,your piss as painting,and your sh1t as sculpture in public.Such people belong behind bars or need treatment,not my tax dollars.Ditto for those who even support such satanic ideas.This is Satanism,a religion,which must be confronted & crushed(like i`m doing now)whenever it tries to raise its ugly head anywhere....including among the pious & clean communities of US.And we muslims have more friends & supporters among the practising jews & christains than you can ever care to imagine.
Are you a new arrival to the poetry scene that you try to grab anyone around to tell them what you read?What makes you think others not read or not know more than you do.Perhaps they are good at spurning a lot of stuff which is around.Those who are even a little aware of Urdu & Farsi poetry will not visit english poetry other than for idle curiosity.It is as bland and insipid as their stuff they call food.
Write your ``critique``(what a joke of a word) or write a poem of your own,if that is what you do,or like to do,best.But please do not impress us with this `minimalism` kind of stuff.Leave that for the immature students at the university.
You are much greater in your cultural inheritence than you are aware of.Get rid of this inferiority complex and try to learn a little from your local imam.You might be surprised!
__________________________________________________
What defence?In case you do not comprehend something written in average english let me write at your level--a notch or two less than the english madressah(convent)type.
I despise what you approve.I consider it vulgar the very ``FREEDOM`` to exhibit your fart as art,your piss as painting,and your sh1t as sculpture in public.Such people belong behind bars or need treatment,not my tax dollars.Ditto for those who even support such satanic ideas.This is Satanism,a religion,which must be confronted & crushed(like i`m doing now)whenever it tries to raise its ugly head anywhere....including among the pious & clean communities of US.And we muslims have more friends & supporters among the practising jews & christains than you can ever care to imagine.
Are you a new arrival to the poetry scene that you try to grab anyone around to tell them what you read?What makes you think others not read or not know more than you do.Perhaps they are good at spurning a lot of stuff which is around.Those who are even a little aware of Urdu & Farsi poetry will not visit english poetry other than for idle curiosity.It is as bland and insipid as their stuff they call food.
Write your ``critique``(what a joke of a word) or write a poem of your own,if that is what you do,or like to do,best.But please do not impress us with this `minimalism` kind of stuff.Leave that for the immature students at the university.
You are much greater in your cultural inheritence than you are aware of.Get rid of this inferiority complex and try to learn a little from your local imam.You might be surprised!
__________________________________________________
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