The Forgotten Children of God

Narayan,

I did not mean that ancient indians lacked scientific temper, rather it was something different from what we know today.

I do believe that it is possible to `train` onself to attain intutive knowledge. It definitely will not involve a study of the earlier work say in ayrveda, to become an ayurvedic scholar. It could just be a tuning of the mind to receive the intutive knowledge.

I had a colleague, he lived in aurobindo ashram from childhood, where he said the emphasis was on deciplining the mind to learn, what ever one may choose to learn. He was running a restaurant in bangalore, absolutely no formal qualifications. He met one french prof from Ecole polytechnique in france, he finished a P.hd in solar heat transfer in two years, that was his first degree.

This is no attempt to generalise, but only an anecdoal evidence of what could be possible. The central theme is that one has to believe, in this case his parents believed that such a thing is possible, no need for cramming formal qualifications, to let the mind sieze the potential. This person is probaly one of the most pleasant persons I have ver come across, he never forgets any personal details. Last month we met after more than fifteen years, he remebered every detail of all the people we knew together.

Only relevant question is why should one limit the the possibilities. For many it is just make the world manageable, to cut the `crap`.

I can tell you from my personal experience, you are limited only by the possibilities that you give to yourself. Life is a mystery.

narain #199,

``On a different note. I just discovered that I think of you (DRUMZ) as a male, though I have no evidence on which to base this.``

Rest assured narain saab, ONLY males can ever be interested in enlightenment, higher planes of awareness, multi-dimensions, Von Danikan, Sumerians and nazca lines (among other things) !!!



Re: #194

jay,

(1)

``If you can accept this basic premise that ``scintific` knowledge is only one source of knowledge, and there could be others, compatiblae and consistant with a logic of its own, then probably there is scope for some intimations of what is awareness and its structure.``

You may be right...there could be others. But as DRUMZ said, its impossible to prove a negative.

But answer this. DNA, blood, hair, the immune system, the digestive system, sight, hearing, etc, etc. These are all fantastically complicated systems in our bodies. We are only scratching the paint in understanding these. No one to my knowledge ever mentions any `magic` with regard to these. Its always level-headed thinking about how they work.

ONLY with respect to the brain...do we hear of `other world logic`. Why ?

(2)

``I find it hard to believe that aurvedic system of medicene is derived through a scientific process of controlled experiments as we know today. It is more than likely that charaka simply said that for this illness use this, which the modern science if finding to be valid.``

IMO its not hard to imagine a civilization, at least 5000 years old, to have a well developed system of medicine, especially with a deep-rooted educational system for passing on knowledge to successive generations.

Till recently I was among the Indians who are highly sceptical of so-called ancient knowledge. In those earlier times I would have agreed with anyone suggesting that the ancient Indians lacked scientific temper and discipline. All that changed as I read and digested the Surya-Siddhanta.

If this book was written in Greece, modern western historians would be praising it to the skies. As it stands, the english translation of this book was written by an English b@stard (Prof. Whitney) in 1860. The sheer genius of the book shines through even after his best attempts to malign the author(s).

Tycho Brahe (circa 1300) you may know, was the first european to measure the skies accurately for several years with non-telescopic instruments. His priceless data was used by Kepler whose ideas were used by Newton. The measurements in the Surya-Siddhanta compare very well to Tycho`s. Whitney himself says so. And the SS was at least a couple 1000 years old when Tycho was born. What does this mean???

This is only one example (among many many) from the book and my interest is only in astronomy. Thus jay, I would disagree with any suggestion that the ancient Indians lacked scientific temper.

regards both,

Sarwar,

I was surprised to read those figures. If those figures hold, then it would seem that the legitimacy of the multiparty political process is higher (or at least not any less) among SCs than among many other Indian groups.

Be what it may, it is clear that the SCs have taken to electoral politics in India as fish to water. And I say: Go, my friends. There are difficulties in your way, but you seem to be on the right path.

ref: Drumz #192

Dear Drumz,

Just be sure that you don`t throw the baby out with the bath water There is a lot of good in Islam. All that`s needed (as with all other religions,..and actually everything in life) is a little perspective.

-narain

PS: On a different note. I just discovered that I think of you as a male, though I have no evidence on which to base this. Is there something like man-ly writing?

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drumz

stop? this is just the beginning sweetie..waisae i think i have this maternal almost sisterly thing for all ali`s..did u know that ive almost chased the previous ali off chowk..stalking him all over the place...change the name and ill be off your case in two secs..otherwise be prepared..for iyam tha qookie monster

dont let this one go through chowkstaff

Reply DRUMZ # 193

``Also I heard the BINDI (paki dot) was placed on the third eye chakra to allow others to view your aura, correct?``

Story I heard was:

Women have a third eye (in the middle of the forehead) which enables them to perceive reality instead of illusion.

Now, since the nature of the world we live in IS illusion (Maya), this quite obviously won`t do.

So in order to spare the world, Hindu women cover the third eye with a bindi.

Myself, I believe that this is not entirely an altruistic act since Hindu women find themselves dealing quite a bit with subcontinental men, and if they had to do that without illusions...well, you get my drift.

Dunno about the third eye Chakra thing. Possibly related to the Raj (?) chakra - the one next up from the one in your throat.

Kundalini theory? Er...kundalini serpent (?)resides in the chakra at the base of your spine. The idea is to awaken it (note: weed alone will not do this, neither will an apple), so that it rises, chakra to chakra, until it blows your mind out (or head off) and, as they say in the Motherland, mukthi praapth kee jathi hai.

I think. I`m sure somebody can correct me here. Beware New Agey sites purporting to know. They are all written by plain whitegurls of various genders and are satan`s work.

Sadna and Harimau,

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it.

Anybody else knows of a South Asia based religious online publication? It could have any religious orientation, so long as it is published either by people in South Asia or by people in its diaspora.

Thanks again.

Prem

AWARENWSS AND REALITY

anarayan,

Before one can talk a little deeper abou awareness, there are some meta issues about reality. What we normally consider the world out there is a scientific world, that is logical, essentally based on repeatable experiments, and essentally with a cause and effect repeatability.

Then also there is too much emphesis on visual input, and reasoning, and reapeatable transmission of knowledge through some simple procedures, basically not life altering procedures.

The above system does not recognise intutive knowledge. I find it hard to believe that aurvedic system of medicene is derived through a scientific process of controlled experiments as we know today. It is more than likely that charaka simply said that for this illness use this, which the modern science if finding to be valid.

If you can accept this basic premise that ``scintific` knowledge is only one source of knowledge, and there could be others, compatiblae and consistant with a logic of its own, then probably there is scope for some intimations of what is awareness and its structure.

regards

jay

Can someone teach me about the chakras (have a bit of background on em) and the kundalini.

Also I heard the BINDI (paki dot) was placed on the third eye chakra to allow others to view your aura, correct?

Narain: Damn, thats like the 10th time this week Ive missed what was clearly infront of me (a sign?). Co-religionists, I have none (or very few). Ive come to the realization that I disagree with (almost) every major belief of Modern Islam`s. If there was an anti Islamic religion id join in a hurry... BTW: there`s no persuading them, believe me Ive tried. The Quran addresses this issue wisely (In their hearts is a disease).

Turtle: I can`t stand the Matrix after what happened a month back. This idiot of an imam gave this bullsh1t lecture about how Islam is the way outta the ``Matrix.`` That`s blasphemous right there - ruining the movie over a laffable dogma.

Plus I don`t watch them on the regular. Last time was in 95, but Ive seen all the white people movies so I didnt have much of a choice.

Prem: That makes no sense cuz ur brown. Only whitegurls are ugly (its in the gita, near the middle). Im sorry about ur friend, the 786 tripped me cuz only paki muslims follow that. Was ur friend on chowk? I remember temp talking about some dude who got in an accident or something.

Anoop: Eid or ID, doesnt matter cuz the word is foriegn, thus there`s no ``correct`` way to say it. I believe Ramzan is the Urdu way of saying it, Ramadan is the Arabic. Arabization is a big problem in Islam. I know Pakis who say ``Allah hafiz`` instead of ``Khouda hafiz`` Like itll make a God damn difference.

Anny: Okay the compliments are getting a little outta hand, please stop immediately. Oh, I have an idea that`ll piss of alotta Muslims. Im about to introduce a new username. ``ALLAH`` of course. Cept this one will be cool, speak slang, smoke weed etc. He will also taunt everyone with hell threats like the other dude of the same name (no relation).

anaryan: Thanks for getting me thinking man, been weekz... Um, enlightenment by definition can`t be negative. Its hard cuz u put the wieght of the world on your shoulders (dont hide behind no religion). Its harder to achieve if u have a lotta info in ya head (according to buddhists).

Computers are self aware - to a degree. Everything they can be aware of is composed of the data we give them (we create their world)... Cause and effect is evident in the known universe. Look, to build further, we must agree on the existence of an eternal (higher plane-t) universe. If we do, cause and effect may not necessarily be present their cuz C and E require TIME/SPACE to exist as laws. Science is touching on this (they say there may be 12 dimensions out there-different VIBErations). If there is an eternal plane, IT may be the CAUSE of some of our instincts (we may even COME from it...) However, this Cause is not bound to the connotations we give to the word ``cause.`` This `cause` is from a scientifically UNKNOWN plane.

Danikan is a groundbreaker though he bullsh1ts a LOT. Stitchen studied various sumerian epics (where the Bible comes from). He said the sumerians thought the Biblical GODS (elohim) were physical beings from the 12th planet called niburu (makes a revolution every 3600 years). If u look at the ancient egyptian pharoahs and chinese rules, ALL claimed descent from Gods from heaven. The Biblical word for Heaven is ORION, same as the constellation. Heaven is likely a physical place (as I said, IMO the hindu Gods may actually just be beings in brahma more superior to us). Plus I think its the mahabatra (SP?) that mentions ancient flying machines. Lot more to talk about - Pyramids, MARS, nazca lines (The Dogon tribe in Africa which was aware of the cycles of Sirius B - before they had powerful telescops).

GAWD BLESS!!!

Ref Anoop Bhat #: 188

[similarly is it ``Ramadan`` or ``Ramzan``???.... not that it matters, but I`m curious :)))]

It is Ramada Inn.

Ref: AnNy #189

Dear AnNy,

Doubts are not bad at all. What is that Bible quote I want: ``If you start with certainty, you end up in doubt. If you start with doubts, you shall find the truth`` (...or something to that effect. Unfortunately i am no bible expert :) )

-narain

narainsahab:

``WEll said Drumz! I was merely parroting the reply someone gave me when I suggested much as you do, the need to reinterpret the Quran. Good luck in persuading more of your co-religionists to accept your assertion``

having said what he has in a manner most non co-religionists on chowk will find it hard to emulate (reference not to repeated use of mufukkas but logic and sincerity), he seems to have sowed an annoying seed of doubt in quite a few minds :( i`d like to beat him up

DRUMZ:

Sick at Eid time? Tough luck matey.... if those three ``Indian`` movies were Lagaan, Dil Chchta Hai and Bollywood Calling, you`d have increased your chances at recovery..... really, speaking as a true-blue Bollywood hater.

Nice to know that sickness or health doesn`t affect chowkies from attending.... I`m a relatively new convert but still come thirsting for a sip every two hours, esp. responses to my own article :))).... really feels good, this interaction.

Well.. Christmas`s coming up.... America shall rejoice... I envy them their festivals.. Christians and Muslims.... us poor Hindus have ten million and not ONE comes close to being enjoyable... well, I suppose Dussehra is fun what with nubile nymphets dancing all night, but Diwali is one long noisefest and Holi, one psuedo-carnal violent orgy..... long for a simple Id or Christmas..... sigh

BTW, is it ``Eid`` or ``Id``.... I always thot it was ``Id``..... nowadays the Arabic looking spelling seems to have taken over.... similarly is it ``Ramadan`` or ``Ramzan``???.... not that it matters, but I`m curious :)))

Eid Mubarak, all ye across the border. And 15% of those on this side too :))

Re: DRUMZ #181

DRUMZ,

(1)

``Being sick is boring as hell. I jus watched 3 Indian movies...``

Fighting pain with more pain...worth a try!

(2)

``Its like when someone says ``my Higher self.`` Well to whom does the higher self belong? The paradox is obvious, we cannot logically get around it...``

Don`t remember where I read it...enlightenment is a losing, not a gaining.

(3)

``I understand your theory of layers, but IMO it gives the illusion that it`s explained something when it hasnt. Would u agree that we know very little about the deeper layers? Well how can we not say that they are receptive to instinctual stimuli (I know, ya cant prove a negative, lol). I agree with your assessment of the layers and how their interactions `cook up answers` in our subconscious. However, we really dont have any factual basis for saying the deeper layer doesnt do `X.```

Right you are. We dont have any factual basis for saying the deeper layer doesnt do `X`.

My approach was to point out that the brain works on cause-effect, its a mechanical thing. No one has disproved this so far. For everything it does, every thought, every feeling that arises...there`s a reason. We may reasonably be assured that ALL its layers are controled by cause-effect...till someone proves otherwise.

Jay wrote about `awareness`. He said living things are aware of themselves while machines are not. But I proved that modern day networked computers are good examples of machines that are `aware`. I was hoping he would continue because thats not the end. Humans create computers...intelligence creates intelligence...nothing surpising there. But how did the first intelligence or awareness in the universe come about ???

(4)

``Ever heard of zacariah Stitchen or Von Danikan?``

Read Von Daniken a long time ago (Chariots of the Gods ??). Don`t know about Stitchen.

best wishes for early recovery,