India, Pakistan and America’s Mixed Signals

The reason why Pakistanis are so sceptical of the (`brilliantly` timed) attacks on India is because of the past history of India having manufactured such incidents. Recent attacks on Indians and Indian forces have been oh-so-conveniently timed, (During Clinton`s visit the Sikhs were massacred in Kashmir, when Powell visited the exchange of fire escalated in Kashmir as the Indian General in Kashmir threatened war, the mysterious `hijacking` which turned out to be a `miscommunication`, a `demonstration`, a `training exercise` (take your pick. Hell, even the poor 24 year old sod who took the `hijacking` call died mysteriously a few days later) - after the aircraft was refused entry to Pakistan. Every single one of these incidents being the worst thing for Pakistan at the time. A deaf, dumb and blind clam in a tank of chloroform could tell that these incidents were timed to hurt Pakistan. Regarding the Sikh massacre timed for Clinton`s visit even Eric Margolis has this to say in his column: ``... Indian forces disguised as Kashmiri mujihadin have even attacked Sikhs in an effort to turn them against Muslims.`` Add to that no concrete evidence, but a immediate series of arrests of the `culprits` who (as the British novelists say) promptly, and on cue, sing like a canary.

Sorry guys, it does not wash. The sheer convenience (for the Indians) of the various incidents boggles the mind. Be that as it may, we Pakistanis must look at ourselves to solve our own issues first. It is clear that the Indian government is trying to put the screws on the Pakistani Government and has `created` events in the past (documented) to pin the blame on Pakistan. In this we cannot expect any kind of help from the US.

The question for Pakistanis is how to defend ourselves from this kind of insinuation and attack. The first thing for us is to clean our own house: in other words we do not need extremists who attack civilians. We don`t need to support groups who are extremist. We do not need mullahs who preach violence on innocent people. When we do that we will be better able to advocate the cause of the Kashmiris. This pressure on Musharraf to crack down on the extremists (while seen by the Indians as Delhi`s show of force) must be seen as it really is: an acceleration of Musharraf`s original plan to put Pakistan on a path of tolerance and moderation. The pressure has only helped.

Secondly, we have no choice - NO choice - but to become self reliant industrially, economically and militarily. China has proved over the years to be the only reliable nation for Pakistan, because of our convergence of interests. In recent years the UAE, Jordan and now Iran and Turkey are becoming stronger partners. These are our potential and present partners. Pursuing a course of self reliance will give India pause for thought. Because Pakistan is perceived as being in a vulnerable position, India is going to do what it can to win from the situation - understandably so. We however can weather this quite well. The recent events have given Pakistan a new hope of turning things around. We do not have the luxury of having our debts forgiven - we actually have more debts now with all this aid. The only sensible approach is to use the economic aid to generate a stable economic base and an industrial/manufacturing base that will alleviate our aid burden. Fortunately we have men and women in the present government who have exacly this in mind. In five years time (assuming Musharraf is still in power and Benazir has not made a comeback) Pakistan will be a dynamic force in the subcontinent. The signs are already there.

Mr. Siddiqui,

Well put.

War is too serious business to be left to

Generals - in our case to fat, overfed Generals

known as crore commanders and land grabbers.

These Generals want a conflict so that new

weapons will bought and fat commissions gained.

We want peace...

KNOW PAKISTAN

At last the true nature of pakistan is being brought to the day light. There is no more talk of kashmir, but the world is focussed on pak actions in closing down the terror organisations. There is no more interest in the freedom fighter crap, it is only a demand to close down laskars.

At last the world is realising the one memeber of the coalition against terror should be on the other side. It may be for the eastern alliance to finish up and iraqise the last terrorist country.

Ras,

Some comments:

(1)

``That America would win the war against terrorism in Afghanistan was known by all except a misguided few in the region. Passions are no match for 21st century technology and know how. To believe that a group of fighters armed with rudimentary tools of war were going to win against a super-power, which had conventional weapons of mass destruction at its disposal, was to live in a fool’s paradise.``

Are you calling Romair a FOOL now? Where were you when Romair was pouring it on ??? Don`t recall anyone (except hamidm and tahmed) giving him a piece of their mind at that time.

(2)

``Why would Pakistanis pick this moment of all times to support terrorism in India, especially when the rest of the world including their own leadership is fighting a war against it? India in particular has threatened a military response against “terrorism” emanating from Pakistan. Nobody mentions the fact that Pakistan needs terrorism today like it needs a hole in its head.``

Good point. But this assumes there are no fools in Pakistan. Go to answer-1.



(3)

``And nobody mentions the fact that both the United States and Pakistan once had a relationship with the Taliban Regime in Afghanistan. They only mention Pakistan.``

Don`t see you complaining about all the billion$ afghan aid you skimmed...also the weaponry. Talk both sides, if you want to present a good case.

The Americans gave YOU the $$ and the ammo and not the afghans directly...with the full knowledge of your greed...WHY ???...because they like you ??? ...or for the very reason you now cry about.



(4)

``The Taliban and Osama have been the initial targets of our American wrath but then “suddenly” out of the blue, terrorism raises its ugly head in both Israel and India? We are being made to believe that these two countries are the now somehow fighting the same war.``

somehow ???

Ras...underneath your words...you are a mini-Romair. Why is your government arresting all these PAKISTANIS (not kashmiris)???

We Indians have no doubt that only a swift kick on your backside will remove the cobwebs. Now that this huge nation has been stirred, it will quieten only after it tastes blood. War (limited or otherwise) will be initiated...at the right time. Don`t live in a fool`s paradise.

regards,

``Peace`` vigil in San Jose:

I attended the ``peace`` vigil held in San Jose. Following were the salient features:

1. I was the only Indian ``present`` there. Everyone else was from Pakistan. Rest of the people present there were pretending as if they were representing American Indian voices too. They could not even bring any of their Indian friends (if they have any). Carrying the Indian flag they wanted to pretend to passing by people that they were mixture of Indians and Pakis.. This thing was really deceptive.

2. There was not a single mention of terrorism in the placards. As if to say that there is a war to start in South Asia out of blue, may be just because Indians and Pakis hate each other. Basically agenda rather than ``peace`` was ``save pakistan``.

3. I had a poster criticizing ``military dictatorships`` and saying ``Indians and Pakis are one``, I was accused of being ``divisive``, ``anti-peace`` and ``with hidden agenda``. So I guess another agenda was ``save mr. musharraf`` and keep floating the theory that muslim-hindu are separate people.

4. One of the organizer tried to read some crappy article from WPost basically whose import was ``hey Indians are basically Hindus and India-Pak difference is between hindus and muslims..``. When will Pakis start looking at the census figures. Sorry to break the news guys. For decades in India more muslims live than in Pakistan and even so more peacefully than any where, with more democratic rights than anywhere. So please stop giving BS that India-Pak dispute is abt Hindu-Muslim.

5. It seems organizers had special affinity to ``two nation theory``. The basic point was even if a nation is attacked and engaged in proxy wars for years, it should still maintain ``peace``. I Wonder organizers ever called for peace when innocent people get butchered by terrorists. Only when there is talk of retaliation from India, it seems they hear their scared relatives in Pakistan and then come out to talk about ``peace``.

6. Also common goal of meeting organizer was to beg Mr Bush to do some thing about South Asia. This shows how much ``peace`` they can achieve from this Bush the ``messiah of peace``.

Ok guys lick the * *lls of Bush or whoever powerful you can find around the world to save your terrorist regime or jehadi brothers.

But let me tell you if you expect India would behave cowardly just to give ``peace`` to terrorists, forget it. I dont care abt holocaust, even if all my near and dear ones might get affected, but we do need to respond to this fascist evil scourge of Jehadism and free our Paki brothers from it too. So yearn for the final war, so that your dear ones back in Desh have future in peace and prosperity.

Well founder of ``Chowk.com`` was also there. I complemented him on having a great website. Hope he does not completely share the views of rest of the organizers.

``Peace`` vigil in San Jose:

I attended the ``peace`` vigil held in San Jose. Following were the salient features:

1. I was the only Indian ``present`` there. Everyone else was from Pakistan. Rest of the people present there were pretending as if they were representing American Indian voices too. They could not even bring any of their Indian friends (if they have any). Carrying the Indian flag they wanted to pretend to passing by people that they were mixture of Indians and Pakis.. This thing was really deceptive.

2. There was not a single mention of terrorism in the placards. As if to say that there is a war to start in South Asia out of blue, may be just because Indians and Pakis hate each other. Basically agenda rather than ``peace`` was ``save pakistan``.

3. I had a poster criticizing ``military dictatorships`` and saying ``Indians and Pakis are one``, I was accused of being ``divisive``, ``anti-peace`` and ``with hidden agenda``. So I guess another agenda was ``save mr. musharraf`` and keep floating the theory that muslim-hindu are separate people.

4. One of the organizer tried to read some crappy article from WPost basically whose import was ``hey Indians are basically Hindus and India-Pak difference is between hindus and muslims..``. When will Pakis start looking at the census figures. Sorry to break the news guys. For decades in India more muslims live than in Pakistan and even so more peacefully than any where, with more democratic rights than anywhere. So please stop giving BS that India-Pak dispute is abt Hindu-Muslim.

5. It seems organizers had special affinity to ``two nation theory``. The basic point was even if a nation is attacked and engaged in proxy wars for years, it should still maintain ``peace``. I Wonder organizers ever called for peace when innocent people get butchered by terrorists. Only when there is talk of retaliation from India, it seems they hear their scared relatives in Pakistan and then come out to talk about ``peace``.

6. Also common goal of meeting organizer was to beg Mr Bush to do some thing about South Asia. This shows how much ``peace`` they can achieve from this Bush the ``messiah of peace``.

Ok guys lick the * *lls of Bush or whoever powerful you can find around the world to save your terrorist regime or jehadi brothers.

But let me tell you if you expect India would behave cowardly just to give ``peace`` to terrorists, forget it. I dont care abt holocaust, even if all my near and dear ones might get affected, but we do need to respond to this fascist evil scourge of Jehadism and free our Paki brothers from it too. So yearn for the final war, so that your dear ones back in Desh have future in peace and prosperity.

Well founder of ``Chowk.com`` was also there. I complemented him on having a great website. Hope he does not completely share the views of rest of the organizers.

Pakistan has been involved in terrorism for decades now and has created caos and destruction in kashmir for the last ten years. Unfortunately, it continues its act of cowardly terror war sending militants accross the border into india in order to kill thousands of innocent indians. It is pakistani policy to ethnically cleanse kashmir of hindus, through the use of murder, rape, and pillage. But what else can be expected of jihad? If only the indian army would send in several hundred thousand troops and do a little cleansing themselves. With 200+ nuclear warheads with the missles to boot, nuclear war means only one thing: the destruction of what we call pakistan, in the event of a nuclear exchange, india would still be on the map, but the same can not be said for the islamic state of pakistan. I think its time to make the terrorists pay.

WORTH READING!

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j123101.html

THE BRAHMIN BOMB

On the other side of the Middle East, New Delhi`s Brahmins are wielding the nuclear stick more openly, explicitly threatening Pakistan with the unthinkable. At issue is the Vale of Kashmir, a section of Central Asia so mountainous and inaccessible that it makes the terrain of Afghanistan look like a golf course. India has always claimed it, in spite of its overwhelmingly Muslim population. If India allowed a real national referendum, Kashmir would doubtless go with Pakistan, but New Delhi`s ``Great Power`` conceit would never permit that, and so the region has been in a constant state of war since the partition of India and Pakistan more than 50 years ago.

IMPERIAL INDIA

From this lair of Islamic ``terrorism,`` various Islamic tribes and groups have launched attacks on India proper, and the Brahmins, asserting their regional hegemony, have decided to follow the good example of the United States in pursuing ``terrorism`` to its source. Since the Indians aver – without offering any proof – that the terrorist attacks have been organized and directed by Islamabad, and that these groups are little more than proxies for Pakistan, in effect a de facto state of war already exists between the two nuclear-armed nations. And the conflict is rapidly spreading….

THE RIPPLE EFFECT

The news that China has moved its troops up to the border with India should have hit the headlines like a thunderclap. The dominoes are falling fast, and even rippling outward to the edge of the world, where North Korea – starving, desperate, and demented – teeters on the brink. The ``mystery ship`` that invaded Japanese waters and was sunk by the Japanese Defense Force sent shockwaves through Japan, and globalized this perilous moment.

ON THE BRINK

Are we standing on the brink of World War III? It all depends on just how crazy are the Hindu nationalists who rule an increasingly bizarre and militant India. Perhaps not all of them are particular devotees of Kali, goddess of destruction – all I know is that Kali holds a central place in the Hindu pantheon, and she no doubt has lots of fans. Here, for example, is an Associated Press story detailing the mindset of the people of Jaisalmer, India, who live near the border with Pakistan, who are ``aching for war``:

```Bring on another war, we are ready,` shouts Jagdish Prasad Vasa, a craggy shopkeeper who has lived through the three wars between India and Pakistan since independence from Britain in 1947. His war cries draw similar chants from the old turbaned men drinking sweet tea at the foot of the sandcastle-like fort.

```The Jaisalmeris are warriors by nature, always on alert and never afraid to fight,` says Vasa, spitting out juice from his `gutkha,` a concoction of tobacco, betel nut and spices. `It`s time to put Pakistan down, for good.```

KALI CALLS

We`ve heard all this highfalutin` theorizing about how Islam, at least in its Wahabist incarnation, is the equivalent of ``Islamo-fascism,`` but how much more explicit can you get than deifying the concept of Destruction? If I were the Pakistanis, I wouldn`t rule out the distinct possibility of an Indian first strike – would you?

PERFIDIOUS INDIA

By even raising the threat to begin with, New Delhi is announcing to the world that the proximity of US troops in the region is absolutely no deterrent. Remember that, during the Cold War, the Indians were generally pro-Russian, and their hatred of America has by no means abated. Pakistan, on the other hand, has stood by the US, with General Pervez Musharraf risking the peace and stability of his own country to root out Al Qaeda. What has India done to fight the bin Ladenites?



And now something to rub into the numb-asses of the Bhooraa-goraas from Indo-Pak.

ISRAEL NIXES NEW YEAR`S EVE

The austerity of the Muslim mindset was matched by the Israelis, who invoked a similarly stern religious edict against millennial joy. ``The party is no merrier in Israel,`` I wrote,

``That beloved theocracy, where an official council of rabbis has made it all but impossible for even foreigners to enjoy a New Year`s party. Hotel owners have been told that they may not hold New Year`s celebrations. While not forbidden to rent facilities to non-Jews, hotels must somehow make sure that no Jews would be admitted. Music, at any rate, is strictly forbidden at these gatherings – no, not even a single verse of `Auld Lange Syne`!``

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The third-rate westernism is definitely heading towards a doom.....All that they taught you as `philosohies` & `theories` which end in ISM will soon have a LA inserted there for good.Kanjars,hijraas,& mirasees will be allowed to exist for the express purpose of providing entertainment---as in the good old days.

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A very Happy New Year to all readers of CHOWK

from

Farah & Ras Siddiqui


Let us pray for peace in the world, especially
in South Asia.