India, Pakistan and America’s Mixed Signals

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JIHAD HYSTERIA

``Later, organizers issued the statement they had planned to read at the rally, which they said was intended to ``denounce the buildup of war hysteria with one voice.``

If the Asma jahangir gang and the born again peace lovers of pakistan had acted against the jihad hysteria, the war hysteria would not have developed.

None of the pakistanis care o admit that jihad is a central religious concept, especially so far a country created for the religion. There can simply be no peace, as we understand it, across a jihadic frontier. It has not happened in the philippines, palestine, indonesis. It can only be a sustainalbe kill rates.

Anti war people of today are actually pro-jihadic people, and that explains why pakistanis are against war.

For Pakistan Nuclear option is the only viable option.Let the Hindus have the first taste of it & in huge doses.After that whatever happens is for muslims to decide among themselves.This would send a clear signal to the Satanic States too.

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NUCLEAR WAR LOOMS IN SOUTH ASIA

Copyright: Eric S. Margolis, 2001

December 30, 2001

For the first time since the October, 1962 Cuban missile crisis, two nuclear-armed powers, India and Pakistan, are in a direct military confrontation that could lead to a massive conventional war - and even to full-scale nuclear conflict. The armed forces of both old foes are on high alert and deploying to forward positions. India and Pakistan said last week their nuclear-armed missiles were ready to strike.

When `War at the Top of the World,` my book on Afghanistan and the Kashmir conflict first came out in 1999 (2000 in the USA, UK, and India), people asked, `who cares about that region?` I sought to explain, usually in vain, that this little-known, but highly strategic, part of the globe was about to erupt. A nuclear war between India and Pakistan, according to CIA studies, would kill 2 million people immediately, and injure 100 million. Equally apocalyptic, a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan, and attacks on one another`s nuclear power reactors, would send a cloud of radioactive dust around the planet.

India and Pakistan have already fought three wars over Kashmir. For the past twelve years, a score of Kashmiri Muslim insurgent groups have waged a fierce guerilla war against some 600,000 Indian soldiers and paramilitary troops in Indian Kashmir. India calls the Muslim insurgents `Pakistani-supported terrorists,` a position lately adopted by the United States. Pakistan calls them legitimate `freedom fighters` battling for the independence of Kashmir. India`s has long rejected UN demands for a plebiscite to determine Kashmir`s future.

The Kashmir insurgency has been an extremely dirty war. Some 50,000 have died, mainly civilians. Indian forces have resorted to brutal reprisals, arson, torture, murder of suspects, and gang rape of Muslim women. Kashmir insurgents have slaughtered Hindus, causing 250,000 to flee the Jammu region, and assassinated many state officials. Indian forces disguised as Kashmiri mujihadin have even attacked Sikhs in an effort to turn them against Muslims.

India has long threatened to attack Pakistan, which it accuses of arming and supporting the Kashmiri mujihadin. In fact, Pakistani intelligence, ISI, has quietly backed some - but not all - of the militant groups, as well as Sikh separatists and Christian insurgents in India`s eastern hill states. India, in turn, stirs up sectarian violence inside Pakistan.

For India, the last straw came just before Christmas, when as yet unidentified militants attacked India`s parliament building in New Delhi. This assault followed attacks against Delhi`s trademark Red Fort and against the Kashmir parliament in Srinagar. India accused two new Pakistan-based Kashmiri insurgent groups - Lashkar-e-Toyiba and Jash-e-Mohammed - of staging the attacks with Pakistani backing. Interestingly, according to my information, neither of these extreme groups are run by Pakistani intelligence. But Pakistan was plunged into confrontation with an outraged India.

The attack on parliament in Delhi was an intolerable outrage. India`s cautious prime minister, Atal Vajpayee, is under intense pressure to strike Pakistan - or at least Kashmiri insurgent bases in the Pakistani portion of divided Kashmir. Hindu fundamentalists, led by Home Minister L.K.Advani and Defense Minister George Fernandes, are beating the war drums. Even India`s usually conservative generals are itching to `teach those bloody Paks a lesson.`

Pakistan is issuing its own threats and massing troops. The confrontation with India is a boon for Pakistan`s military strongman, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, diverting public anger over Pakistan`s recent debacle in Afghanistan and its unpopular new role as an American base. Unfortunately for Pakistan, Musharraf retired or sidelined the army`s best generals under American pressure just before the confrontation with India.

India is massing troops, armor, and aircraft to forward attack positions along its 1,000-mile border with Pakistan. India`s three powerful armor-heavy `strike corps` are poised to sever Pakistan`s vulnerable waist in the Bahawalpur-Rahimyar Khan sectors. India`s increasingly potent navy is ready to blockade Karachi, Pakistan`s main port and entry point for oil. India`s 1.2-million man armed forces, with 3,400 tanks and 738 combat aircraft, outnumber and outgun Pakistan`s 620,000 troops, 2,300 tanks and 353 warplanes. India`s arsenal is mostly modern Russian equipment, while Pakistan`s is obsolescent. Equally important, Pakistan`s limited industrial base allows only a short war, while India`s much larger economy can sustain a long conflict.

The US is leading frantic diplomatic efforts to prevent war. But passion are running very high. The most likely war scenario: Indian commando and air attacks on insurgent bases in Pakistani Kashmir which could escalate to full-scale war. Pakistan probably cannot halt a massive Indian invasion without using tactical nuclear weapons. This, in turn, could trigger nuclear strikes against military and civilian targets. Hopefully, both nations will pull back from the brink, but a false report, or another militant raid, could set off a huge, devastating war with unimaginable consequences.

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Congratulations on a good article. It indeed speaks truth.

Several thoughts came to my mind after reading the article and the replies from both Pakistani and Indian/Israel sympathizers.

Thought number 1:

What has happened in Indian controlled Kashmir (a disputed territory declared by UN) in the past and what goes on there on a daily basis is a manifestation of denying the right of self-determination to the People of Kashmir. This right of self-determination is justified under several UN resolutions. UN resolutions call for the right of self-determination for the people of Kashmir period. People of Kashmir have waited for 50 years but India has denied the right to the people of Kashmir. India wants “terrorists” to stop terrorism and then they may talk about giving some autonomy to Kashmiris. “Terrorism in Indian occupied Kashmir and now in India started about ten years ago but what was India doing starting 1947 till 1989.

Same goes to Israel. The same old story. Occupied territories declared by UN and Israel’s rhetoric that you stop the terrorism first and then we may talk about giving you back your areas.

One common thread among both the countries is that they are denying UN resolutions thus redefining United Nations as Useless Nations.

Thought number 2:

Definition of terrorism as stated by the State Department of USA is “``Premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant * targets by sub-national groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.`` Similarly International terrorism is defined as “terrorism involving citizens or the territory of more than one country``.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,487098,00.html

Read the detailed article on the definition of terrorism by the link provided above.

By the above definition what India and Israel are doing by Kashmiris and Palestinians respectively is not terrorism but merely abuse of human rights and for which the punishment is minimal. However when the people of Kashmir and Plaestine fight for their right of self-determination/autonomy they are labeled as terrorist.

Surprisingly by the State Departments definition of Terrorism the war of independence by the Continental American forces in existing United States and the Anti British forces in the subcontinent were terrorists also. It is just that the “State Department’s definition” of terrorism didn’t exist at that time.

Killing of unarmed civilians by the use of military (India/Israel) should also be declared terrorist.

Thought number 3:

The thin line between terrorism and independence struggle is success. The best case is Israel itself. Just look at the history of the creation of Israel. Again the irony is that the “State Department’s definition” of terrorism didn’t exist at that time otherwise Minachem Begin was no different then bin Laden.

Thought number 4:

Sooner or later India and Israel will face the same fate as South Africa. They will relinquish the control over Kasmir and Palestine as atrocities can not go on forever.

Asfand Siddiqui

Sacramento CA

re hamzad afaqui

``The important thing to remember is that the Soviet Union is no more.Communism & Socialism are DEAD...``

Please make sure you remember Hazrat Ronald Reagan (RA), who made that possible, in each of your prayers. Also say a regular prayer for Mohtarma Maggie Thatcher and the jannati(late) Judge William Casey. Between them they surely brought down Communism just as the blame-America crowds like Chomsky and other left-liberals were busy saying that communism was the wave of the future. At that time, in the darkest hour of freedom, Reagan said that `no, freedom is the wave of the future`. Similar things are seen today except that red Communist totalitarianism is being replaced as the enemy by black Islamist totalitarianism. SAme left liberals are apologizing(Chomsky, Edward Said, Teddy Kennedy) and the same freedom-loving people are determined to stop this barbarity too. Heck at least you and I agree on the evil of communism/socialism.

Yeah, we`ll beat this Islamist cancer too. And it won`t take forty years.

Here is another example of how Pakistani Jehadi politics has affected it`s standing in the world; no cricketing country dares to tour Pakistan. It should give an idea to people like Ras Siddiqui, who view it`s Jihadi policies so romantically, where Pakistan stands in the civilized world today.

(The News, Pakistan)

Lack of international cricket is extremely disappointing: Inzamam

By our correspondent

KARACHI: Senior members of the Pakistan cricket team are disappointed with the lack of international cricket in the past six months and are looking towards the cricket authorities to provide them some financial compensation if this situation persists.

Pakistan Vice Captain Inzamamul Haq told `The News` here on Sunday that it was a disappointing situation for most of the players to have played just one Test (against Bangladesh) and five One-day Internationals since July this year.

``The situation is frustrating for all of us. The younger players are not getting a chance to gain experience at the international level and establish themselves while it is imperative for the seniors to play regularly to keep their places in the team,`` Inzamam stated. ``We are concerned with this situation because we are not even sure if we will get proper international cricket in the next few months due to the uncertainty surrounding the visits of West Indies, New Zealand, etc.``

``It also means basically that with the World Cup just one year away and a tough series against Australia before that, we are not getting a chance to settle down and form a winning combination,`` he pointed out. ``Also the present situation means loss of earnings for us, as we are all professional cricketers,`` said Inzamam and added ``cricket is after all our livelihood.``

Pakistan`s most accomplished batsman stated that in prevalent circumstances the players felt that the Board should prepare some sort of contract which would ensure some financial compensation for the players if they went without international cricket in the next few months.

``The Board and Lt. General Tauqir Zia look after the players and their welfare very well. But we just feel that in given circumstances it would not be a bad idea to discuss annual contracts providing financial stability to the players with the Board.``

Inzamam also made it clear that players would be more than happy to play at neutral venues in case touring teams and PCB accpeted it as a viable option to overcome the present lack of cricket. Pakistan has played just one Test against Bangladesh in the last week of August which they won inside three days and then five matches in the triangular one-day series in Sharjah in October-November, where they won the final.

In comparison Australia have during this same period played six Tests, India six, Sri Lanka four etc. Inzamam said the players realized that the present conditions were beyond the control of the Board, which was doing its best to organize matches.

``My point of view is that if the Board and Government is giving guarantees to visiting teams they should play in Pakistan. We played in similar uncertain conditions in Sri Lanka in the 1996 World Cup because the Sri Lankan Board and government had given us security assurances.``

He recalled that even in early 1999 the Pakistan team had toured India on their Board and Government`s assurances despite receiving death threats. ``It is not good for any team to go without international cricket for so long. The players lose their edge and get stale. Given this situation even our tour of Bangladesh cannot be taken lightly.`` Inzamam noted that since August, even Bangladesh had played more international cricket than Pakistan and would have improved and learnt a lot in these matches.

Asma Jehangir beaten during peace march at Indo-Pak border
Munir Ahmad (AP)
Wagah, December 31


Hundreds of antiwar demonstrators marched toward the Pakistan-India border on Monday in a protest that turned ugly when border guards, shouting obscenities, beat Pakistan`s top human-rights activist and at least a dozen others.
Asma Jehangir, a lawyer and activist who works as a human-rights envoy for the United Nations, was set upon by border guards led by Maj. Faisal Ghauri, a commander, after she said she and her entourage came to the border near the town of Wagah to demonstrate against war.

Jehangir was not seriously injured.

``We had planned this rally for peace,`` she told a news conference an hour after the late-afternoon rally. ``And it would have shown the international community that Pakistan is a peace-loving country.``

The rally included hundreds of activists and members of Pakistani nongovernmental organizations who were bused into the border area, roughly 30 kilometres east of Lahore, and began to march, holding candles and white flags.

Pakistani border guards told them to go back, but they continued to march. One guard slapped a female demonstrator, and the scene degenerated. Ghauri began shouting obscenities at Jehangir, saying,

``You are here to promote peace at a time when the enemy is holding guns.``

Other guards then set upon her with sticks, beating her and several male marchers who tried to protect her.

Later, organizers issued the statement they had planned to read at the rally, which they said was intended to ``denounce the buildup of war hysteria with one voice.``

``We are deeply disturbed at the Indian government`s steps to isolate and immobilize the people of the two countries by putting an end to all forms of communication,`` the statement said.

Calls to government officials in Islamabad seeking comment about the beatings were not immediately returned Monday night.

Jehangir was criticised by President Gen. Pervez Musharraf earlier this year for criticising Pakistan to the international community. He later apologized, saying he ``got emotional.``

[Begin Quote]

The December 13th attack on the Indian Parliament was either of local Indian origin or the work of someone that wants to poison the waters and embarrass Pakistan

[End Quote]

Keep up your disgusting propaganda! Why dont

you say openly (like the official spokesman

for Musharraf) that the Indians did it to

themselves. The Indians are attacking themselves,

the israelis attacked the WTC, islam is a

religion of peace etc. etc.

Fortunately, the whole world recognizes that

Pakistani officialdom exists in a separate

world of fantasy and delusion. The only

debate now is how to limit the damage to the

world at large by this bizarre culture.

Official Pakistan has invited, collaborated

and supported some of the worst mass-murderers

ever. All of this has been justified as freedom

struggle. Read any Pakistani newspaper

(Dawn, Nation). There are full of reports like:

Freedom Fighters Kill 7 in Wedding Party in

Occupied Kashmir

(Actual headline in Dawn)

If a society begins to accept statements like

this, it is truly debased and nearing a point

beyond civilization. Naturally these murderers

that Pakistan has nurtured have no interest

in the survival of Pakistan itself or any

reasonable solution in Kashmir. They are busy

blowing up the Srinagar Assembly or attacking

the Indian parliament.

What Pakistan needs

to decide now is whether it plans to

continue to support mass-murderers in the

name of religion or change its suicidal

path. A million indian soldiers are waiting

to hear the answer.

RE: Reply #: 14 sadna

``Ras, either the attack on Parliament was engineered by India and hence was not a `hit on the head by a hammer` or it was a terrorist attack NOT engineered by India in which case it was a `hit on the head with a hammer`. You can have it only one way not both.``

Sadna,

There is a fundamental problem with people like Ras Siddiqui. He apparently thinks it is unimportant that the 140 million people of Pakistan have had their fundamental rights abrogated by the army right now and for a majority of it`s existence, but somehow the rights of a few million Kashmiris are of paramount importance.

And we are somehow expected to believe that the Pakistani Government whose two timing shennanigans in Afghanistan have been exposed so vividly, is the innocent victim in all of these.

Mr Ras Siddiqui,

Who is Pakistan (or you for that matter) to say Kashmir or Palestine needs a solution?

The problem with Palestine is that there are too many non-Palestinians(Lebanese, Syrians, Iraqis, not to forget Pakistanis among the lot) shouting. Being a muslim does not give you any special relationship to a political problem or any one of its participants with whom you may share a a trait, be it religion, language, or color of the hair for all I care.

Its not wrong to have opinions but it is wrong to interfere and mess-up an already tangled problem.

When it comes to Kashmir, the Indian side has an elected government that is more than to say about Pakistan. If Indian Kashmiris have a problem they should bring it up like civilized people much like Martin Luther King did in the 1960s in America.

The 21st century does not recognize ``Jihads``, ``Freedom Fights``, or any non-democratic means as legitimate struggles especially against democratic institutions. Democracy is slow but eventually fair and to illustrate:the American minorities did not settle their issues overnight and they might open some new ones as times goes by. The last thing peaceful people who have legitimate concerns against democratic institutions need is interference or ``arms`` aka ``moral support`` from people not interested in resolving any issues but revenge for ``1971`` for whom they were to blame for themselves.

NotAMullah

RE: Reply #: 13 jay

``This should be a lesson for the geriatrics of delhi, a general can only respond to threats, threats to the military that sustains him. There can be good from a threat. from dawn of today``

That is an apt description of the leadership in Delhi. It is high time grandfathers Vajpayee, Advani and the crooked chameleon Fernandes are shown the door in the next elections to allow fresh blood into the corridors of power. All this take of no one being there to take over is just poppycock; the same kind of talk was bandied about during Indira Gandhi`s time, but India has emerged stronger than ever. The weak link in India`s rise to being a world power is the incompetent political leadership which is so out of touch. It is high time politicians who are more world savvy are elected.

The one person I am starting to admire is Farooq Abdullah. For so long he has been urging India to take the fight to Pakistan, but it took visions of their own mortality for our desh netas to act. More power to him.

ras

......pakistan too has to stop sending mixed signals if it wants america to stand by it .... the essential prerequisites are a return to ``real`` democracy and a crack down on the jihadic elements who are a public relations nightmare ..... it is difficult to compete with `` the world`s biggest democracy`` when you have clowns in khaki and jokers in bushy beards running around speaking for pakistan ......the only thing more idiotic is the sight of that psychopath saddam hussain shooting off his rifle on cnn .....

HI

I am surprised to see so suddenly see so many Pakis advocating peace. Had the same situation arosen in different time and space it wouild not be so.

Mumbhai

Ras:

You have asked the right questions, though I still find you a bit lenient towards the US. But are you quite certain that what America does will be seen as a war against Islam, as you say? If so, then is the Islamic world not justified in reacting to it as per the `slot` they have been fitted into? It is a chicken-and-egg dilemma.

You are right when you say, ``Pakistan needs terrorism today like it needs a hole in its head.`` Some fools do believe that `lesser` nations operate in this fashion.

Regards,

Farzana

Ref fozia #: 12

[If war does erupt and spirals out of control, Pakistan will eventually be the loser.]

But Pakistanis have been losers since Day One. They lost democratic control of their country to the Army. They lost the possibility of land reform to the feudals. They lost control of their government to the bureaucrats.

All you are saying is that the Army-feudal-bureaucrat complex will lose in case of a protracted war.

Maybe out of the ashes will rise a new Phoenix, a country where the people`s talents and skills are directed towards improving their plight and not for wars in Afghanistan or subversion in India. And then you will all realize that your best friends all along have been your Indian and Afghan neighbors.

That is not a bad outcome at all.

Ref sarwar #: 8

[Blood Brothers

Now More Than Ever, India and Pakistan Must Remember All They Share

By Akbar Ahmed and Amit A. Pandya

Many Pakistanis are sure that Hindus cannot abide Muslim self-determination on the subcontinent.]

Muslim self-determination? What a joke!

When did the Muslims ever have self-determination on the subcontinent?

At the time of their conversion?

Has a single government in Pakistan changed administrations quietly on democratic principles?

What is Akbar Ahmed trying to slip in here?

You want Muslim self-determination? Go to Bangladesh!

You want Muslim self-determination? Go to India next!

You want Muslims kept in ignorance and told that Allah will provide all they want in the next life so that they will be ready to kill themselves in this life. The only Muslim self-determination offered in Pakistan is mass suicide or slaving away for the welfare of the Army and the feudals.