War Now and, Forever?

re:Reply #: 69

hobbyty,

Was it you who labelled me as a hypocrite or was it Romair? Anyway, here is a statement by you that smacks of hypocrisy:

``In the Ayub Khan years, Pakistan experienced a robust economy, it served as a model for developing economies, while in the same time the Indian economy served as a model for all that was percieved as wrong in developing an economy...``.

And yet, look where is Pakistan today. More than 1 million students attend madrasas. This includes students from 40 different countries. Some of these schools teach hatred and how to kill. Your state rulers not only look the other way but actively encourage this hatred. It serves their purpose. Today, Pakistanis are viewed with suspicion outside Pak. Good pakistanis have to pay this heavy price for stupid policies of their rulers.

From a robust economy during Ayub days, Paksitan`s economy is in shambles today. IMF mandarins tell you what to do. USA is sitting in your country, taken over your airspace, monitors airports. In short you have lost your independence in your own country. Yet, your hatred of India overshadows all this. You still cannot give up terrorism in Kashmir even though it has done nothing good to you in your country.

Some evolution of Pakistani society this is. Md Ali Jinnah would be a sad man today. All he wanted was a secular, muslim majority county at peace with itself and with India. Look how that country has evolved.

Sridhar

Urstruly # 103

I freely admit that killing 80,000 (or howsoever many) helpless kashmiris, raping their women, and killing their babies is state terrorism, and sincerely hope that Musharraf will find a way to take Pakistan out of the path of this terrorism.

I do believe that Pakistanis are too intelligent a people to persist on a path that brings nothing but destruction all around.

BTW, white men, yellow men, or green men - none are more intelligent than you and I. Give up this racist kind of thinking, and you may actually find yourself closer to peace.

Regards.

Reply #: 95 shammi

[Reading your `colourful` language tempts me to make a guess -- is your family originally from eastern UP or Bihar? This is a hypothesis that I would like to test. Thanks]

Dear Shammi, my colorful language is a gift from God to humankind, excluding the rat-monkey-penis-snake worshipping sub-humans in Hindustan, and nothing to do with my ethinicity.

Let me make a guess too, is your family originally from Lahore, from the Badshahi Mosque/Lahore Fort area?

re:Reply #: 60

M.A.Jinnah,

Churchill is said to have gone on record with his remarks ``i shall not be the one to preside over the liquidation of British Empire`` or something to that effect. He might have been instrumental in giving up his fantasy. He only followed dictates of the times. British Imperialism was a wrong policy. British saw the writing on the wall and gracefully quit.

Now, terrorism is also a wrong policy. Will Mushy boy see the writing on the wall and quit this policy of cross-border terrorism in Kashmir.

Sridhar

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re:Reply #: 21

ali1,

Elections get rigged even in USA (look into the ballot frauds in Florida and Texas during last presidential elections). Does that mean one turns to militancy? It only calls for more vigilance. Did the parties concerned seek legal redressal? Supreme Court in a landmark judgement had earlier on declared Indira Gandhi`s election from Allahbad null and void. It could have done the same for rigged elections in Kashmir. But then Kashmiris did not seek any legal or constitutional remedies, which was their right as citizens of India. They fell easy prey to fundamentalist slogans, believing freedom was one grasp away.

Elections are regularly rigged in many parts of Bihar. Democracy can function only if people are vigilant. Let there be a rigged election in places like Tamil Nadu or Maharashtra or Delhi and see what happens. There will be hell to pay for the party who rigged.

The reality is, the disillusionment of the Kashmiris with the political process has been exploited by the extremists with support from Pakistan. It has been given a religious justification (jehad). Some Kashmiris like Farooq Abdullah who have sold their conscience to the Center are also to blame. They should have stood for Kashmir`s rights rather than pander to the wishes of congress in order to grab power.

Sridhar

Urstruly #107
PS: Ofcourse the easier way out for jihadis(not available to you)than providing answers, would be to go to heaven. India is most willing to cooperate here.

Urstruly #107
Any amount of insulting words cannot hide your lack of answers to my questions.

Even your jihadis will have to provide answers someday which their pimps like you donot care to provide.

re:Reply #: 16

manna

If the war is about Kashmir alone, there should have been no attack on the Indian parliament. Terrorists are attacking our way of life. They also selectively kill the hindus in Jammu in order to provoke a wider backlash against muslims in rest of India. It is to India`s credit that no such thing has happened.

It is Pakistan which needs to wake up. Terrorism especially state sponsered has not and will not work. The world today is different after Sept 11 and will not see the difference between freedom fighters and terrorists.

The best that Musharraf can do is to crack down on terrorists, hand over power to an elected govt and retire peacefully.The elected govts of the 2 countries can talk about all outstanding problems including Kashmir.

Sridhar

Sadna

I almost felt like a Hindu today when I realized that no one in the world beleives Indian claims that Paksitan`s moral sponsorship of freedom fighters in Kashmir is equal to sponsoring terrorists. BBC openly calls this mahabharati drama to be just another election ploy. The line that ``Its an attack on democracy`` has become a joke around the world.

You see, problem is that the Hindus have convinced themselves that the white man is actually a phuddoo (``moron``, in case minister of vice and virtue is reading this)or he can be actually be phuddooized by them. Fatal mistake my friend hindus. Let me tell you a little secret here: white man has fish eyes, and you know fish never shuts its eyes even if it wants to. (Its a metaphor, in case anNY is reading it).

re:Reply #: 1

concerned,

Ayub Khan was elected? By whom? God, the Almighty perhaps.

Sridhar

Veeresh,

A very well written article.

``We want, we cherish and thus have democracy in India. We want to continue to have the right to, for better or for worse, be able to bring in or throw out our rulers. We place great value to it. The system we have may or may not be perfect, we realise that, our leaders have been assasinated, our democracy suffers from the effects of caste and religion based number crunching, but it is constantly fine-tuning itself and, hurdles and hiccups notwithstanding, we do wish to continue as Indians to have as the people of India an opportunity every four or five years, to exercise our franchise. Do Pakistanis even understand that, in their vehement support of military regime after military regime in Pakistan?``.

I believe many Pakistanis do understand that but seem to prefer military dictators who promise the moon. Pakstan`s tryst with democracy has been disappointing as everyone of the elected representatives have proven to be corrupt. So, they seem to prefer a military dictator to a P.M. Dictators seem to create an illusion of doing things with speed and efficiency. The reality is, they are answerable to noone and do everything in their own self interest (eg. Mushy boy`s volte-face on Taliban policy and giving away the idea of strategic depth only to save his A$$).

Democracy has not taken roots in Pak. Military rulers have not allowed that to happen. India can help Pak in this respect. For this, the military has to be shown the door by Pakistanis themselves. Are they ready to do so? I do not think so. Hey, if Mushy boy is so popular, why can he not contest election and get elected as P.M of Pakistan. That will certainly enhance his reputation.

I, like you, believe India is a great expt that needs to be continued. Our scars are there for all to see. Our strong institutions and a huge middle class committed to democracy will ensure our survival. Unlike China, we do not need to be janus-faced, showing our best face to the world but hiding all our scars. That is the strength of democracy. Therein lies our hope.

Sridhar

Urstruly #103
``Paksitan is doing whatever it can to save human lives from conscienceless murderers, rapists, and baby killers like yourself.``


Pakistan THINKS its doing whatever it can, but in reality its shooting itself in the foot and Kashmiris too.

The Pakistani Army thinks the best it can do is Hafiz Saeed, Masood Azhar and sundry other indoctrinated infidel-killers. Why have these Pakistanis killed so many Kashmiris, Muslims too? Why is it so difficult for you to admit what is reported?

Please name the body publically accountable to Pakistanis which oversees recruitment, issuing of weapons, funds, arms training, accountability of these jihadis and their organisations?

Is their military activity within Indian Kashmir and the rest of India in accordance with any Pakistani law or formal resolution on paper?

By what process of consultation and public consensus in Pakistan do you Pakistanis decide whom and when these jihadis should attack, or when Kashmiris should be allowed to talk to Indian authorities and about what?

What steps have Pakistanis taken to ensure minorities in J&K have representation in the freedom struggle?

And why is Musharraf ARRESTING jihadis, now? Why didnot he just pass a government order to ask them to keep low?

Prem # 101

Unless you admit that killing 80,000 helpless kashmiris, raping their women, and killing their babies through such draconian laws as Disturbed Area Act of 1990 is state terrorism, please spare me from your lectures of Paksitan`s ``terrorsist`` policies. Paksitan is doing whatever it can to save human lives from conscienceless murderers, rapists, and baby killers like yourself.

40% CUT IN INDIAN AND PAKISTANI DEFENSE BUDGETS:

- The Western powers should use their economic clout to force both the countries to cut their expenditures on defense and armaments.

- The people of both the countries should also rise up and demand reduction in defense expenditures. There appears to be powerful self perpetuating interest groups in both countries that do not want peace for reasons that are obvious.

- In Pakistan there are too many fat Generals leaching off the land who contrive to create crisis whenever there is talk of peace with India or concerns about the unsustainability of defense expenditures.

Urstruly and ali1,

You guys (and others like you) make me laugh (momentarily, for there is nothing funny about the tragedy in which you exult). If you believe that Pakistan has been ``correct`` in its terrorist policies, I can only pray that you develop real love for Pakistan and Pakistani people, beyond your egos.

FYI, India cares two hoots about what Pakistanis think on matters of war and peace. Neither should Pakistan care about what Indians think on such important matters. Both India and Pakistan ought to focus on what is good for their people. If they do that, they will find that wisdom lies in living in peace internally and externally.

But wisdom?...hah...why did I use that word?