The King’s Gambit: Chapter 1 (The Immigrant)
Umair Raja and Omer Rafique January 7, 2002
#1 Posted by Layman on January 8, 2002 1:43:40 am
Good story. Keep it coming.
If I can extrapolate from the first chapter, Israel is planning to attack Pakistan, probably its nuclear installations. Unlike India, Israel has no pact with Pak saying it will not attack its nuclear installations, Pak missiles are probably not long range enough to reach Israel. Also Israel being small in size, a miss could hit friendly Arab countries. Good going.
Pak cannot nuke Israel either as it would also take down its Arab neighbours.
For Israel, this would take out the threat of the Islamic Bomb. However, the big Q would be - does Israel have the capability to fly all the way and attack Pak? You can rule out any assistance from India for Israeli attacks, not just because of moral reasons, but also because India would not want to risk nuclear war with its neighbour. All the same, it would love Israel handling Pakistan... Now what will Pak do?
The story has good potential... cannot wait for the next chapter.
If I can extrapolate from the first chapter, Israel is planning to attack Pakistan, probably its nuclear installations. Unlike India, Israel has no pact with Pak saying it will not attack its nuclear installations, Pak missiles are probably not long range enough to reach Israel. Also Israel being small in size, a miss could hit friendly Arab countries. Good going.
Pak cannot nuke Israel either as it would also take down its Arab neighbours.
For Israel, this would take out the threat of the Islamic Bomb. However, the big Q would be - does Israel have the capability to fly all the way and attack Pak? You can rule out any assistance from India for Israeli attacks, not just because of moral reasons, but also because India would not want to risk nuclear war with its neighbour. All the same, it would love Israel handling Pakistan... Now what will Pak do?
The story has good potential... cannot wait for the next chapter.
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#2 Posted by Ras Siddiqui on January 8, 2002 1:22:02 pm
Interesting fiction scenario developing here.
Need to see a lot more than this ``to be continued``.. piece.
Interesting that ``New Delhi`` is missing thus far.
Ras
#5 Posted by manoj on January 8, 2002 7:39:55 pm
one thing stood out in the article
...`the madrissa education`
the boy can go out of the madrissa but the madrissa cant go out of the boy.
...`the madrissa education`
the boy can go out of the madrissa but the madrissa cant go out of the boy.
#6 Posted by saminashah on January 8, 2002 7:39:55 pm
Well done! Can`t wait for the next one...
regards
regards
#7 Posted by arjun_m on January 8, 2002 7:39:55 pm
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#8 Posted by ylh on January 8, 2002 7:39:55 pm
Nothing special about the first chapter...
I fear the attack is going to be on Mecca. There would be war... Pakistan and India would be gripped in conflict... so on and so forth.
I fear the attack is going to be on Mecca. There would be war... Pakistan and India would be gripped in conflict... so on and so forth.
#9 Posted by cutandpaste on January 8, 2002 7:39:55 pm
Pakistani militants undaunted
Musharraf`s Army quietly sympathizes with Pakistani jihadis who claim Kashmir.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0109/p1s2-wosc.html
By Elizabeth Rubin | Special to The Christian Science Monitor
PESHAWAR, PAKISTAN - The Jamaat-I-Islami calls its quiet compound on the Grand Trunk Road in Peshawar the Center of Islam. The party is the ideological nucleus for all the jihadi groups fighting to wrest the majority-Muslim state of Kashmir from Indian control.
On the walls of the guest house is painted a scene of Muslim fighters on horseback, men with camels walking out of the mountains, over the words: ``Muslims of the subcontinent want to fulfill the ideology which says Pakistan is for the Muslims, India is for the Hindus; it will not be fulfilled without Kashmir; and thus we need an Islamic revolution.``
Despite the fact that Jamaat-I-Islami leader Qazi Hussain Ahmad has been arrested and despite Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf`s crackdown on jihadi leaders and fighters in the weeks since the Indian Parliament was attacked by unknown gunmen on Dec. 13, life goes on as usual at the Center of Islam. Fighters from all the provinces of Pakistan, as well as from the disputed region of Kashmir are coming and going, taking respites from their fight in Kashmir at the placid guest house. They are men like Abdullah, serious and purposeful, in his tweed blazer, shalwar kameez, and hiking boots.
One early morning about 10 years ago, Abdullah was on his way to prayers at his neighborhood mosque in Kashmir when he saw the Indian Army surround the mosque and open fire. A few weeks earlier he`d seen his schoolteacher dead on the road, killed by the Indian Army. He was 14 and enraged. He joined the demonstrations outside the UN offices and was stunned by the seeming indifference of the UN. ``So I left behind my pen and took a gun, and until now, my parents don`t know whether I`m alive or dead,`` says Abdullah, a 25-year-old Kashmiri jihadi.
It`s been so long now, he can`t even remember his parents so well, he says. He has no family of his own. He sees all the women of Kashmir as his mothers, all the girls as his sisters. For the past 11 years Abdullah has fought, slept, eaten, and prayed with his brothers in the armed wing of the Jamaat-I-Islami. President Muharraf`s recent actions against them, Abdullah says, will do nothing to stop him. ``We did not start our jihad for the Musharraf government, and we are not obeying his orders,`` he says.
He`s just crossed the border from three months in the mountains of what Pakistanis call ``Indian-held Kashmir`` and Indians call ``Jammu Kashmir.`` And whenever his amir (commander) called him back, he`d go by night and cross over the border. ``Our stand is clear. There`s no compromise,`` he says. ``We demand the Indian Army to quit Kashmir and let us decide our fate according to the 1948 UN resolution, which says that Kashmiris have the right to a plebiscite.``
For Abdullah, jihad is very specific - to liberate Kashmir. He`s not interested in Afghanistan. But behind him sit the spiritual and religious fathers for whom Kashmir is the latest chapter in the struggle of the Muslim world against Western imperialism - and these days, America. ``Rulers may say anything, but listen to the Khateeb [the speaker at Friday prayers],`` says an elderly ideological leader who`s been popular among the Islamist groups since the days of the jihad against the Russians and asked not to be named. ``If all the ulema [Islamic clerics] say, `don`t use American goods,` it can be easily implemented. And ultimately it may go there.``
To the Islamic leaders here, Musharraf has become a puppet of the West. For years, it`s been an open secret that the Pakistani Army was supporting and aiding the jihadi groups. Today, the official Army line is that it will obey the president`s orders, and it is doing so. But a key unanswered question here is how long the Army will continue to do so.
``Our jihadi people are still working with the Army officers who`ve told us they are unhappy about the president`s decision on Afghanistan and our Islamic groups,`` says a professor of one Islamic party here whose leader was arrested. ``Junior officers and soldiers in the mountains are arriving in tears. They say, `We are with you, because you are the people. Now your people are under threat, and it`s painful for us.` But it`s not the right time for us to start street violence. Our enemies will only use it against us.``
Having supported and financed the Afghan jihad against the Russians, and then the Taliban regime, the Pakistani government and leaders paved the way for what many have called the Talibanization of Pakistan. One of those men is retired Gen. Anwar Sher, who unofficially represented the Afghan jihadi groups for the Pakistani Army, and was a strategic adviser to the Taliban in the early days of their emergence.
While he sees Musharraf`s moves as necessary to curb the internal extremism, he warns that no one can control the madrassahs or the jihadi groups unless the Kashmir issue is resolved, and more generally the issue of America`s ``bulldozer`` approach to diplomacy.
``The average Pakistani - in fact any Pakistani - cannot think of Pakistan as complete without Kashmir. It is an unfinished agenda of the partition. The Kashmiris and Pakistanis are so frustrated with the obduracy of India and the negligence of the major powers that they feel they have to do it alone, at any risk, at any cost,`` he says. ``No government can survive if they do not heed the general sentiments of the public, whether it is a military or civilian government.``
Musharraf`s Army quietly sympathizes with Pakistani jihadis who claim Kashmir.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0109/p1s2-wosc.html
By Elizabeth Rubin | Special to The Christian Science Monitor
PESHAWAR, PAKISTAN - The Jamaat-I-Islami calls its quiet compound on the Grand Trunk Road in Peshawar the Center of Islam. The party is the ideological nucleus for all the jihadi groups fighting to wrest the majority-Muslim state of Kashmir from Indian control.
On the walls of the guest house is painted a scene of Muslim fighters on horseback, men with camels walking out of the mountains, over the words: ``Muslims of the subcontinent want to fulfill the ideology which says Pakistan is for the Muslims, India is for the Hindus; it will not be fulfilled without Kashmir; and thus we need an Islamic revolution.``
Despite the fact that Jamaat-I-Islami leader Qazi Hussain Ahmad has been arrested and despite Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf`s crackdown on jihadi leaders and fighters in the weeks since the Indian Parliament was attacked by unknown gunmen on Dec. 13, life goes on as usual at the Center of Islam. Fighters from all the provinces of Pakistan, as well as from the disputed region of Kashmir are coming and going, taking respites from their fight in Kashmir at the placid guest house. They are men like Abdullah, serious and purposeful, in his tweed blazer, shalwar kameez, and hiking boots.
One early morning about 10 years ago, Abdullah was on his way to prayers at his neighborhood mosque in Kashmir when he saw the Indian Army surround the mosque and open fire. A few weeks earlier he`d seen his schoolteacher dead on the road, killed by the Indian Army. He was 14 and enraged. He joined the demonstrations outside the UN offices and was stunned by the seeming indifference of the UN. ``So I left behind my pen and took a gun, and until now, my parents don`t know whether I`m alive or dead,`` says Abdullah, a 25-year-old Kashmiri jihadi.
It`s been so long now, he can`t even remember his parents so well, he says. He has no family of his own. He sees all the women of Kashmir as his mothers, all the girls as his sisters. For the past 11 years Abdullah has fought, slept, eaten, and prayed with his brothers in the armed wing of the Jamaat-I-Islami. President Muharraf`s recent actions against them, Abdullah says, will do nothing to stop him. ``We did not start our jihad for the Musharraf government, and we are not obeying his orders,`` he says.
He`s just crossed the border from three months in the mountains of what Pakistanis call ``Indian-held Kashmir`` and Indians call ``Jammu Kashmir.`` And whenever his amir (commander) called him back, he`d go by night and cross over the border. ``Our stand is clear. There`s no compromise,`` he says. ``We demand the Indian Army to quit Kashmir and let us decide our fate according to the 1948 UN resolution, which says that Kashmiris have the right to a plebiscite.``
For Abdullah, jihad is very specific - to liberate Kashmir. He`s not interested in Afghanistan. But behind him sit the spiritual and religious fathers for whom Kashmir is the latest chapter in the struggle of the Muslim world against Western imperialism - and these days, America. ``Rulers may say anything, but listen to the Khateeb [the speaker at Friday prayers],`` says an elderly ideological leader who`s been popular among the Islamist groups since the days of the jihad against the Russians and asked not to be named. ``If all the ulema [Islamic clerics] say, `don`t use American goods,` it can be easily implemented. And ultimately it may go there.``
To the Islamic leaders here, Musharraf has become a puppet of the West. For years, it`s been an open secret that the Pakistani Army was supporting and aiding the jihadi groups. Today, the official Army line is that it will obey the president`s orders, and it is doing so. But a key unanswered question here is how long the Army will continue to do so.
``Our jihadi people are still working with the Army officers who`ve told us they are unhappy about the president`s decision on Afghanistan and our Islamic groups,`` says a professor of one Islamic party here whose leader was arrested. ``Junior officers and soldiers in the mountains are arriving in tears. They say, `We are with you, because you are the people. Now your people are under threat, and it`s painful for us.` But it`s not the right time for us to start street violence. Our enemies will only use it against us.``
Having supported and financed the Afghan jihad against the Russians, and then the Taliban regime, the Pakistani government and leaders paved the way for what many have called the Talibanization of Pakistan. One of those men is retired Gen. Anwar Sher, who unofficially represented the Afghan jihadi groups for the Pakistani Army, and was a strategic adviser to the Taliban in the early days of their emergence.
While he sees Musharraf`s moves as necessary to curb the internal extremism, he warns that no one can control the madrassahs or the jihadi groups unless the Kashmir issue is resolved, and more generally the issue of America`s ``bulldozer`` approach to diplomacy.
``The average Pakistani - in fact any Pakistani - cannot think of Pakistan as complete without Kashmir. It is an unfinished agenda of the partition. The Kashmiris and Pakistanis are so frustrated with the obduracy of India and the negligence of the major powers that they feel they have to do it alone, at any risk, at any cost,`` he says. ``No government can survive if they do not heed the general sentiments of the public, whether it is a military or civilian government.``
#10 Posted by Bhardwaj on January 9, 2002 12:17:30 am
Iam glad this fiction is written by Muslims.Otherwise most of the Israelis writers are so keen on writing fictions that many Hindians ,due to lack of comprehension ,think what Israelis write are true.(e.g. Manoj`s Post)
I have been hard pressed since college days teaching them(hindians) that Exodus,Odessa Files etc are fancy propoganda by Israelis who know english & write propoganda mixture of some fact & heavy dose of Israeli wishfull thinking.Somthing like Salman Rushdie ,inshoert time learnt later to mix fact with fiction by which most average joe like Indians can be CONFUSED!!!
I have been hard pressed since college days teaching them(hindians) that Exodus,Odessa Files etc are fancy propoganda by Israelis who know english & write propoganda mixture of some fact & heavy dose of Israeli wishfull thinking.Somthing like Salman Rushdie ,inshoert time learnt later to mix fact with fiction by which most average joe like Indians can be CONFUSED!!!
#11 Posted by hobbyty on January 9, 2002 1:22:20 am
Sigalpg, Hamidm
Let`s begin with the proposition that you are not among the ranks of the self loathers - The US is not a ``melting pot``, it has not been for more than six decades - African American, Polish, American, Italian American and we can`t forget the Jews (a host of ethnic nationalities among just that group) - ``melting pot`` is freshman textbooks.
Both of of suggest that the Muslim is a spoiler amongst the American - both of you misunderstand and misrepresent the Muslim experience in America. While Muslim civic and religious organization have worked hard to become a major organizing force, the goal of national relevance has eluded them, thus far - I am quite confident that this objective will be achieved, but not with this culture and this society (America) coming to grips with the fact that culturally, historically, it has been anything but fair or neutral with regard to Islam.
Within culture, even at the level of cartoons for children, let alone movies, televison and print, villany, neagtivity is posited in the Muslim and in Islam itself.
Many Muslims seek to hide, see their interest in not creating an awareness in this society of it`s hostility towards Islam and Muslims - but this strategy is characterized by diminshing returns. Muslims who are citizens of America do not seek to exercise a previlage in asserting themselves, but a right. Unfortunately in the present atmosphere only by agitation and and recourse to legal remedies can they ensure the protection of their rights.
Godot
I do take your point about what the stamp may represent and I remain optimistic - however; citizens must not face harassment in the exercise of their rights. Are you aware of the number of Muslim owned business firebombed, ordinary Muslims discriminated against? How many of these cases have been resolved? how many punished? I think we both know the answer - Just how mature is US leadership in dealing with the Europeans? why is it that the Europeans or is it continentals, react also with caution to American iniatives?
Muslims who are citizens of America are right in saying that the US is great country and that Muslims can certainly be free and participate - having said that, we would be remiss if we did not add that Muslim Americans must remain vigilant because there are other Americans who do not see the Muslim American, or Muslim presence in America in friendly terms.
#12 Posted by semipreciousme on January 9, 2002 4:12:33 am
``Ari Shariel entered the main compound of the Knesset through the big iron Polambo gate. His bodyguard was having difficulty keeping pace with him.``
....since the real life `shariel` is as big as a cow, i`m having a real hard time imagining this...
....since the real life `shariel` is as big as a cow, i`m having a real hard time imagining this...
#13 Posted by rsaxena on January 9, 2002 11:44:08 am
re: hobbyty
{{Within culture, even at the level of cartoons for children, let alone movies, televison and print, villany, neagtivity is posited in the Muslim and in Islam itself.}}
....are you talking about the `where is osama` segment jay leno does?...you didn`t like him riding that camel dressed in a yankee doodle uniform?...or letterman`s crack about that shoe bomber`s new Air Jehad sneakers?....
...a community doesn`t move forward b.c. of cartoon characters?...there`s some indian dunce on the Simpsons and indians have the highest per average income of any ethnic group in america...
...dude, you are a joke...
{{Within culture, even at the level of cartoons for children, let alone movies, televison and print, villany, neagtivity is posited in the Muslim and in Islam itself.}}
....are you talking about the `where is osama` segment jay leno does?...you didn`t like him riding that camel dressed in a yankee doodle uniform?...or letterman`s crack about that shoe bomber`s new Air Jehad sneakers?....
...a community doesn`t move forward b.c. of cartoon characters?...there`s some indian dunce on the Simpsons and indians have the highest per average income of any ethnic group in america...
...dude, you are a joke...
#14 Posted by Rafique on January 9, 2002 11:44:08 am
I would like to thank the Chowk staff for publishing this article. I would also like to thank the interactors, for their replies and suggestions, to the article. Please keep them coming. You may find them added to future chapters. I also want to thank Umair (Romair, as he seems to be known here) for introducing me to this wonderful site. I have been visiting here quite often, but have not interacted much.
The current story is part of an abstract I wrote a few years ago. I passed it on to Umair who filled in parts, based on some of his experiences. We submitted it to Chowk, during his last visit to Canada.
Following are the answers to some of the queries:
Layman 1; ``If I can extrapolate from the first chapter, Israel is planning to attack Pakistan, probably its nuclear installations. Unlike India, Israel has no pact with Pak saying it will not attack its nuclear installations, Pak missiles are probably not long range enough to reach Israel.``
I cannot comment on the first line. You will have to wait to find out as the story develops. The second and third lines are correct.
Ras 2; ``Interesting that ``New Delhi`` is missing thus far.``
This is just the first chapter.
Mona, Anny, Samina; I appreciate the kind words. I will attempt to fill in the abstracts of the second and third chapters soon, and send them into Chowk. After that you will have to convince the Chowk Staff to get them printed.
manoj 5; ``the boy can go out of the madrissa but the madrissa cant go out of the boy.``
This is true, in many cases, according to psychiatrists. Childhood educations, traumas and experiences seem to have a far longer lasting effect on humans, than adult experiences. In the case of the character Rafi Qureshi, there is a death of a father involved, also. The death could have occurred under a circumstance of conflict, which would furthur influence this character.
arjun_m 7; Thank you for the information about the submarines. I was unaware of this. Could you please provide some additional information on this? I am interested in exploring it furthur.
ylh 8; This is first chapter, First chapters are usuaully quite boring. They usually deal with introductions to characters. Just wait for a little while.
``I fear the attack is going to be on Mecca.``
The Prime Minister has already moved past UAE, towards Iran, so Mecca has been passed. Unless, of course, it is attacked at a later stage, or if the Prime Minister makes a U-turn with the mouse.
Bhardwaj 10; I spent a lot of time reading Ludlum, Forsyth, and now Clancy. However, my favortie authors are Domique Lapierre and Larry Collins. They write historical stories with fiction added to them, in French and English. Their book on India and Pakistan, titled, ``Freedom at Midnight`` is very good. Another book, ``O` Jerusalem`` is very interesting. It is definitely not written from an Israeli points of view. You may enjoy reading it.
semipreciousme 12; ``since the real life `shariel` is as big as a cow, i`m having a real hard time imagining this...``
You maybe refering to Sharon. Shariel is a fictional character. Shariel is still trim, lean, athletic, and regularly runs three miles every morning with his aides and bodyguards.
Once again, thank you for your comments and suggestions.
The current story is part of an abstract I wrote a few years ago. I passed it on to Umair who filled in parts, based on some of his experiences. We submitted it to Chowk, during his last visit to Canada.
Following are the answers to some of the queries:
Layman 1; ``If I can extrapolate from the first chapter, Israel is planning to attack Pakistan, probably its nuclear installations. Unlike India, Israel has no pact with Pak saying it will not attack its nuclear installations, Pak missiles are probably not long range enough to reach Israel.``
I cannot comment on the first line. You will have to wait to find out as the story develops. The second and third lines are correct.
Ras 2; ``Interesting that ``New Delhi`` is missing thus far.``
This is just the first chapter.
Mona, Anny, Samina; I appreciate the kind words. I will attempt to fill in the abstracts of the second and third chapters soon, and send them into Chowk. After that you will have to convince the Chowk Staff to get them printed.
manoj 5; ``the boy can go out of the madrissa but the madrissa cant go out of the boy.``
This is true, in many cases, according to psychiatrists. Childhood educations, traumas and experiences seem to have a far longer lasting effect on humans, than adult experiences. In the case of the character Rafi Qureshi, there is a death of a father involved, also. The death could have occurred under a circumstance of conflict, which would furthur influence this character.
arjun_m 7; Thank you for the information about the submarines. I was unaware of this. Could you please provide some additional information on this? I am interested in exploring it furthur.
ylh 8; This is first chapter, First chapters are usuaully quite boring. They usually deal with introductions to characters. Just wait for a little while.
``I fear the attack is going to be on Mecca.``
The Prime Minister has already moved past UAE, towards Iran, so Mecca has been passed. Unless, of course, it is attacked at a later stage, or if the Prime Minister makes a U-turn with the mouse.
Bhardwaj 10; I spent a lot of time reading Ludlum, Forsyth, and now Clancy. However, my favortie authors are Domique Lapierre and Larry Collins. They write historical stories with fiction added to them, in French and English. Their book on India and Pakistan, titled, ``Freedom at Midnight`` is very good. Another book, ``O` Jerusalem`` is very interesting. It is definitely not written from an Israeli points of view. You may enjoy reading it.
semipreciousme 12; ``since the real life `shariel` is as big as a cow, i`m having a real hard time imagining this...``
You maybe refering to Sharon. Shariel is a fictional character. Shariel is still trim, lean, athletic, and regularly runs three miles every morning with his aides and bodyguards.
Once again, thank you for your comments and suggestions.
#16 Posted by Prem on January 9, 2002 1:31:55 pm
Something off the topic (good storyline evolving here, btw)
``Childhood educations, traumas and experiences seem to have a far longer lasting effect on humans, than adult experiences.``
As a corollary, communication (and concomitant learning) occurs according to the Principle of Primacy - information that is received first gets a far greater weightage than information that comes later. For an overwhelming majority of people, this cycle of ``biased learning, selective response, reinforced biased learning`` is almost impossible to break.
That is why, (1) (at the individual level) no matter how many books some people may read, they are unable to break out of the broad world-view they develop as children, and (2) (at the collective level) clear differences exist in child-rearing and educational practices in societies that can change and societies that can`t.
``Childhood educations, traumas and experiences seem to have a far longer lasting effect on humans, than adult experiences.``
As a corollary, communication (and concomitant learning) occurs according to the Principle of Primacy - information that is received first gets a far greater weightage than information that comes later. For an overwhelming majority of people, this cycle of ``biased learning, selective response, reinforced biased learning`` is almost impossible to break.
That is why, (1) (at the individual level) no matter how many books some people may read, they are unable to break out of the broad world-view they develop as children, and (2) (at the collective level) clear differences exist in child-rearing and educational practices in societies that can change and societies that can`t.
#17 Posted by soysauce on January 9, 2002 1:31:55 pm
Rafique
There was an MSNBC story about an american woman married to someone who used to be OBL`s secretary. There are some striking parallels between your protagonist and this guy. You may want to check it out (MSNBC Jan 8th).
There was an MSNBC story about an american woman married to someone who used to be OBL`s secretary. There are some striking parallels between your protagonist and this guy. You may want to check it out (MSNBC Jan 8th).
#18 Posted by Rafique on January 9, 2002 3:40:31 pm
Rdesikan 15; ``Your guys should hold on to your day jobs``
Both of us have decided to follow your advice, and have withdrawn our resignations. Our current jobs are far too well-paying to consider another career. At the same time, we need to keep in mind that Tom Clancy was an insurance salesman, and JK Rowling was a teacher, before embarking on their careers in fiction. If they had followed everyone`s advice, we would not have been introduced to Jack Ryan and Harry Potter.
Prem 16; Thank you for sharing the information. Our childhood does play an important role in deciding who we are. I talked to a psychologist who told me, our personalities are decided by the time we reach our teens. Another told me, they are decided by the time we reach the age of four.
The death of Rafi`s father will be explained in a later chapter. And you will discover the basis of his obsession.
soysauce 17; I will check out the OBL story. Interestingly enough, when I wrote the abstract, one of the original chapter`s outlines dealt with a coup that takes place in Pakistan. About six months later, a coup did end up taking place in Pakistan. Similarly, one chapter dealt with a terrorist attack in the USA. Lo and behold, Sept. 11.
Bringing these exact events in, after they have occurred, is going to be somewhat unintersting. So they have been commented out. What do you think?
Both of us have decided to follow your advice, and have withdrawn our resignations. Our current jobs are far too well-paying to consider another career. At the same time, we need to keep in mind that Tom Clancy was an insurance salesman, and JK Rowling was a teacher, before embarking on their careers in fiction. If they had followed everyone`s advice, we would not have been introduced to Jack Ryan and Harry Potter.
Prem 16; Thank you for sharing the information. Our childhood does play an important role in deciding who we are. I talked to a psychologist who told me, our personalities are decided by the time we reach our teens. Another told me, they are decided by the time we reach the age of four.
The death of Rafi`s father will be explained in a later chapter. And you will discover the basis of his obsession.
soysauce 17; I will check out the OBL story. Interestingly enough, when I wrote the abstract, one of the original chapter`s outlines dealt with a coup that takes place in Pakistan. About six months later, a coup did end up taking place in Pakistan. Similarly, one chapter dealt with a terrorist attack in the USA. Lo and behold, Sept. 11.
Bringing these exact events in, after they have occurred, is going to be somewhat unintersting. So they have been commented out. What do you think?
#19 Posted by aicha on January 9, 2002 3:40:31 pm
Interesting ! As I was reading the beg I thought it was about that sharp Pakistani financier cum political analyst cum whatever - I forget his name but is on TV all the time nowadays.
As an aside did you know - The Bourne Conspiracy is being released later this month ?? Cant wait !!
aicha
As an aside did you know - The Bourne Conspiracy is being released later this month ?? Cant wait !!
aicha
#20 Posted by Rdesikan on January 9, 2002 8:01:40 pm
Re Rafique 18
Dream on. But seriously, good luck if you do strike it big as authors.
Dream on. But seriously, good luck if you do strike it big as authors.
#21 Posted by soysauce on January 9, 2002 8:01:40 pm
Rafique
Can`t wait for your next installment. Since you have been so prescient, do share with us how the border situation will turn out.
BTW, WTC attack, while shocking was not totally unexpected. The earlier attack made it clear that this was a target. Did your story have planes ploughing thru the buildings? Now that would have been pure genius. In that case you should indeed quit your day jobs and join the CIA or the NORAD (or whatever else the canucks have).
Predicting an army coup in pakistan is no big deal since coups have been a regular feature in pakistan any way.
Can`t wait for your next installment. Since you have been so prescient, do share with us how the border situation will turn out.
BTW, WTC attack, while shocking was not totally unexpected. The earlier attack made it clear that this was a target. Did your story have planes ploughing thru the buildings? Now that would have been pure genius. In that case you should indeed quit your day jobs and join the CIA or the NORAD (or whatever else the canucks have).
Predicting an army coup in pakistan is no big deal since coups have been a regular feature in pakistan any way.
#22 Posted by Deodrant on January 9, 2002 8:01:40 pm
SUX SENA
``highest per average income of any ethnic group in america...``
Thats because they counted me as ``Indian ethnic Group``
Whose statistics ,it must be Rediff/india abroad/Sulekha poll of Indian sounding names
There cannot be ``Indian Ethnic Group``
b/c South Afrikan,U,K,Trinidian ,Guyanese,West Indies,Surinam,Belize,Kenyan,Nigerian,Middle Eastern(kuwaitGulf Iran..)are NOT indian Nationals but socialioze with Indian Organization Holi ,Deevali & Assocuiation membership
#23 Posted by Rafique on January 10, 2002 2:03:23 am
aicha 19; ``that sharp Pakistani financier cum political analyst cum whatever``
You might be refering to Manzur Ejaz (not sure whether I have the spellings correct). He was (is) President Clinton`s unofficial representative for Track II diplomacy between India and Pakistan.
Are you refering to the Bourne Identity or the Bourne Ultimatum or the Bourne Supremacy by Robert Ludlum? I am not familiar with the Bourne Conspiracy. Was that another in this series?
Ludlum took me a while to get used to. I started off with Forsyth and then moved to Ken Follet. I am now following Clancy. Clancy`s writings are not easy to follow, because they are quite dry in comparison to the other writers. But his technical details of military equipment are beyond comparison. I don`t know how he learnt all that as an insurance salesman.
Rdesikan 20; Thanks for the encouragement. Pakistani and Indian authors (mostly Indian) have hit it big in fiction and literature. Rushdie, Roy, and Sidwa come to mind. Did you know Arundhati Roy was actually an architect`s artist, and sold empty beer bottles for a living? Another writer I am starting to follow is Mohsin Hamid. He is going to be big.
But for some reason, South Asia hasn`t produced any, ``Thriller`` writers. At least none I can think of.
soysauce 21; I will leave an analysis of the border situation to Umair. He is usually up on these things. Maybe he should write an article.
My story did not have planes flying into the WTC. That would have required an extraordinary imagination. NORAD is jointly manned (and wommaned) by USA and Canada. It is actually in Wyoming. Deep deep inside the Cheyenne mountains. It is the second target, after downtown Washington DC, for Russian nuclear missiles. So not a very good place to work.
The Central Intelligence Agency, in my opinion, is very overrated. But a job with Mossad would be interesting.
You might be refering to Manzur Ejaz (not sure whether I have the spellings correct). He was (is) President Clinton`s unofficial representative for Track II diplomacy between India and Pakistan.
Are you refering to the Bourne Identity or the Bourne Ultimatum or the Bourne Supremacy by Robert Ludlum? I am not familiar with the Bourne Conspiracy. Was that another in this series?
Ludlum took me a while to get used to. I started off with Forsyth and then moved to Ken Follet. I am now following Clancy. Clancy`s writings are not easy to follow, because they are quite dry in comparison to the other writers. But his technical details of military equipment are beyond comparison. I don`t know how he learnt all that as an insurance salesman.
Rdesikan 20; Thanks for the encouragement. Pakistani and Indian authors (mostly Indian) have hit it big in fiction and literature. Rushdie, Roy, and Sidwa come to mind. Did you know Arundhati Roy was actually an architect`s artist, and sold empty beer bottles for a living? Another writer I am starting to follow is Mohsin Hamid. He is going to be big.
But for some reason, South Asia hasn`t produced any, ``Thriller`` writers. At least none I can think of.
soysauce 21; I will leave an analysis of the border situation to Umair. He is usually up on these things. Maybe he should write an article.
My story did not have planes flying into the WTC. That would have required an extraordinary imagination. NORAD is jointly manned (and wommaned) by USA and Canada. It is actually in Wyoming. Deep deep inside the Cheyenne mountains. It is the second target, after downtown Washington DC, for Russian nuclear missiles. So not a very good place to work.
The Central Intelligence Agency, in my opinion, is very overrated. But a job with Mossad would be interesting.
#24 Posted by hobbyty on January 10, 2002 2:03:23 am
RSaxsena
The Indian`s is bigger and better than the Pakistani`s. Yours is the biggest and bestest of all. Happy? - Why do persons such as you, who happen to be Indian, feel such insecurity about themselves? Don`t feel insecure or threatened - just stay away from mirrors.
Rafique
My apology for the earlier post, it was meant for Godot`s board. Correct me if I am wrong, was there not a similar story in a book published some 20 years - where Pakistan military intelligence convince India to support them in a plan to plan nuclear weapons in Dhows in the Gulf in an attempt to black mail the Arabs for the payment of tribute that they would shar with India, and Pakistan would also take care of Bangladesh? And with Isreal launching missile on Kahuta from a cargo vessel in the Arabian sea? complete with a wealthy Pakistani Jew (are there no ordinary Jews) and dissident Balouchi nuclear scientist?
#25 Posted by Glen on January 10, 2002 2:03:23 am
Guys dont let such dubious news let you fool.
http://www.dailypioneer.com/secon2.asp?cat= edit1&d=Edits
India considers Arafat who, according to Israel is doing little to control terrorism, to be a friend. Equally, Israel`s stand on talks with Pakistan is slightly softer than India`s.
#26 Posted by harimau on January 10, 2002 9:03:02 am
Ref Rafique #: 23
[Clancy`s writings are not easy to follow, because they are quite dry in comparison to the other writers. But his technical details of military equipment are beyond comparison. I don`t know how he learnt all that as an insurance salesman.]
Clancy used to read commercially available trade magazines on naval/electronic warfare equipment. The US Navy was quite surprised that he got the scenarios so right in his book ``The Hunt for Red October``. After the book became a best-seller, Clancy got an invite to tour a US Navy submarine.
[NORAD is jointly manned (and wommaned) by USA and Canada. It is actually in Wyoming. Deep deep inside the Cheyenne mountains. It is the second target, after downtown Washington DC, for Russian nuclear missiles. So not a very good place to work.]
NORAD is in Colorado Springs, Colorado. At least 200 miles south of the Colorado-Wyoming border. Would have been a simultaneous target along with Washington, DC, if not the very first because it tracks all missile launches from anywhere in the world.
During the Cold War, there were tours of the facility so that people could see what their money got them. They stopped all public tours by 1998. So, you have to watch the History Channel to find out more about NORAD.
[Clancy`s writings are not easy to follow, because they are quite dry in comparison to the other writers. But his technical details of military equipment are beyond comparison. I don`t know how he learnt all that as an insurance salesman.]
Clancy used to read commercially available trade magazines on naval/electronic warfare equipment. The US Navy was quite surprised that he got the scenarios so right in his book ``The Hunt for Red October``. After the book became a best-seller, Clancy got an invite to tour a US Navy submarine.
[NORAD is jointly manned (and wommaned) by USA and Canada. It is actually in Wyoming. Deep deep inside the Cheyenne mountains. It is the second target, after downtown Washington DC, for Russian nuclear missiles. So not a very good place to work.]
NORAD is in Colorado Springs, Colorado. At least 200 miles south of the Colorado-Wyoming border. Would have been a simultaneous target along with Washington, DC, if not the very first because it tracks all missile launches from anywhere in the world.
During the Cold War, there were tours of the facility so that people could see what their money got them. They stopped all public tours by 1998. So, you have to watch the History Channel to find out more about NORAD.
#27 Posted by Rafique on January 10, 2002 11:06:58 am
hobbytv 24; I am not familiar with the story of India and Pakisan jointly planning an attack on the Gulf.
In the early eighties, there were rumors Israel had initiated an attack on Pakistan. It was detected by the Saudis, who informed Pakistan. I vaguely remember seeing a very large group of Pakistani military aircraft taking off, one after another, in the middle of the night.
harimau 26; Thanks for the info on Tom Clancy. I believe he hit it big with Red Storm Rising. It actually became a part of the curriculum for the US Air Force and the US Navy training institutes.
The Hunt for Red October was one of my favorite movies. I heard Alec Baldwin wasn`t interested in playing Jack Ryan after that, and the role ended up with Harrison Ford.
Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs is the HQ for the USAF Space Command. It is where the NORAD commander sits. I think he reports directly to the President of the USA, and the Prime Minister of Canada. I had the opportunity to visit Peterson, once.
Cheyenne Mountain Air Station contains the systems which monitor everything flying in space, including Santa Claus. I am assuming the mountain acts as a nuclear shelter.
In the early eighties, there were rumors Israel had initiated an attack on Pakistan. It was detected by the Saudis, who informed Pakistan. I vaguely remember seeing a very large group of Pakistani military aircraft taking off, one after another, in the middle of the night.
harimau 26; Thanks for the info on Tom Clancy. I believe he hit it big with Red Storm Rising. It actually became a part of the curriculum for the US Air Force and the US Navy training institutes.
The Hunt for Red October was one of my favorite movies. I heard Alec Baldwin wasn`t interested in playing Jack Ryan after that, and the role ended up with Harrison Ford.
Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs is the HQ for the USAF Space Command. It is where the NORAD commander sits. I think he reports directly to the President of the USA, and the Prime Minister of Canada. I had the opportunity to visit Peterson, once.
Cheyenne Mountain Air Station contains the systems which monitor everything flying in space, including Santa Claus. I am assuming the mountain acts as a nuclear shelter.
#28 Posted by aicha on January 10, 2002 11:30:17 am
Rafique - you are right on both counts. Bourne C was ofcourse me getting ahead of myself : )
It is interesting you mention Ken Follet along with Ludlum&co. I would have thought he was into fiction - but then have read only one of his works - pillars of the earth. No conspiracy games there. The world of espionage has become quite dull after the fall of the ussr or perhaps it is still as exciting but we dont get to hear the stories.
aicha
It is interesting you mention Ken Follet along with Ludlum&co. I would have thought he was into fiction - but then have read only one of his works - pillars of the earth. No conspiracy games there. The world of espionage has become quite dull after the fall of the ussr or perhaps it is still as exciting but we dont get to hear the stories.
aicha
#29 Posted by Urstruly on January 10, 2002 1:40:39 pm
Messers Raja & Rafique
Imagery is good. Judging by the size of first chapter, I guess it lies somewhere between a novellete and a medium size story-unless of course there are 125 of such chapters coming. Also judging by this introductory chapter I am sorry to say but the ``Gambit`` is clear from the very begining-that`s a downer which should have been avoided at all costs. So the reader will be left to keep guessing who the ``King`` is, I suppose, for the rest of the episodes.
I welcome you to Chowk. Please forgive my critique, I am as unqualified as anyother bob but if you wanna blame someone blame the interactive forum.
Imagery is good. Judging by the size of first chapter, I guess it lies somewhere between a novellete and a medium size story-unless of course there are 125 of such chapters coming. Also judging by this introductory chapter I am sorry to say but the ``Gambit`` is clear from the very begining-that`s a downer which should have been avoided at all costs. So the reader will be left to keep guessing who the ``King`` is, I suppose, for the rest of the episodes.
I welcome you to Chowk. Please forgive my critique, I am as unqualified as anyother bob but if you wanna blame someone blame the interactive forum.
#30 Posted by Rafique on January 10, 2002 5:00:19 pm
aicha 28; Try the following by Follett: Triple and On Wings of Eagles.
The first one is a fictional thriller, and the second one is a factual thriller based on the rescue of Ross Perot`s employees from Iran. Another interesting one by Follett is Lie Down with Lions, which covers Afghanistan. It has an interesting Afghani Stinger missile expert, called Mullah Rockety as one of its characters.
I think the recent terrorist threats are going to dominate the future of Thrillers. This may turn out to be more interesting than the USSR.
The first one is a fictional thriller, and the second one is a factual thriller based on the rescue of Ross Perot`s employees from Iran. Another interesting one by Follett is Lie Down with Lions, which covers Afghanistan. It has an interesting Afghani Stinger missile expert, called Mullah Rockety as one of its characters.
I think the recent terrorist threats are going to dominate the future of Thrillers. This may turn out to be more interesting than the USSR.
#31 Posted by rsaxena on January 10, 2002 5:00:19 pm
re: 12-head
{Thats because they counted me as ``Indian ethnic Group``}
that would give indians the lowest average IQ..that`s clearly not the case...
{Thats because they counted me as ``Indian ethnic Group``}
that would give indians the lowest average IQ..that`s clearly not the case...
#32 Posted by Glen on January 10, 2002 9:23:29 pm
#: 31
RSaxena
re: 12-head
{Thats because they counted me as ``Indian ethnic Group``}
that would give indians the lowest average IQ..that`s clearly not the case...
SUX SENA
YOu are A.c.COUNT .TANT,what would you know about the mind biology ?Intelligence Quotient is not INCOME AVERAGING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RSaxena
re: 12-head
{Thats because they counted me as ``Indian ethnic Group``}
that would give indians the lowest average IQ..that`s clearly not the case...
SUX SENA
YOu are A.c.COUNT .TANT,what would you know about the mind biology ?Intelligence Quotient is not INCOME AVERAGING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#33 Posted by harimau on January 11, 2002 12:50:01 am
Ref Rafique #: 27
[Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs is the HQ for the USAF Space Command. It is where the NORAD commander sits. I think he reports directly to the President of the USA, and the Prime Minister of Canada. I had the opportunity to visit Peterson, once.
Cheyenne Mountain Air Station contains the systems which monitor everything flying in space, including Santa Claus. I am assuming the mountain acts as a nuclear shelter.]
Cheyenne Mountain, the location of NORAD, IS in Colorado Springs. The local high school near NORAD is named Cheyenne Mountain High.
I tried getting into NORAD on a tour; that was when I was told that they don`t have tours anymore. It is a common mistake to think that Cheyenne Mountain is in Wyoming since the city Cheyenne is in Wyoming.
From watching History Channel, you would find out that NORAD has been carved inside the mountain; the road into the caves can accommodate huge trucks (2-way traffic!); the doors sealing the entrance can withstand a direct nuclear attack; that the entire NORAD sits inside a humongous structure on huge springs that absorb the ground shock of a nuclear attack; etc.
[Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs is the HQ for the USAF Space Command. It is where the NORAD commander sits. I think he reports directly to the President of the USA, and the Prime Minister of Canada. I had the opportunity to visit Peterson, once.
Cheyenne Mountain Air Station contains the systems which monitor everything flying in space, including Santa Claus. I am assuming the mountain acts as a nuclear shelter.]
Cheyenne Mountain, the location of NORAD, IS in Colorado Springs. The local high school near NORAD is named Cheyenne Mountain High.
I tried getting into NORAD on a tour; that was when I was told that they don`t have tours anymore. It is a common mistake to think that Cheyenne Mountain is in Wyoming since the city Cheyenne is in Wyoming.
From watching History Channel, you would find out that NORAD has been carved inside the mountain; the road into the caves can accommodate huge trucks (2-way traffic!); the doors sealing the entrance can withstand a direct nuclear attack; that the entire NORAD sits inside a humongous structure on huge springs that absorb the ground shock of a nuclear attack; etc.
#34 Posted by aicha on January 11, 2002 12:50:01 am
Rafique - thankyou for the list. I have a vague feeling I might have read the last one and watched it on TV also (Timothy Dalton and am not hallucinating either) - but I`ll know soon on my next trip to the bookstore : ) You maybe right on the terrorist scenarios - but I hope they do justice to it or else will be too puke`y to bear !!
aicha
aicha
#36 Posted by semipreciousme on January 11, 2002 12:50:01 am
Rafique
``Ludlum took me a while to get used to. I started off with Forsyth and then moved to Ken Follet. I am now following Clancy. Clancy`s writings are not easy to follow, because they are quite dry in comparison to the other writers. But his technical details of military equipment are beyond comparison. I don`t know how he learnt all that as an insurance salesman.``
....what about clive cussler?...read any of his works?...
``Ludlum took me a while to get used to. I started off with Forsyth and then moved to Ken Follet. I am now following Clancy. Clancy`s writings are not easy to follow, because they are quite dry in comparison to the other writers. But his technical details of military equipment are beyond comparison. I don`t know how he learnt all that as an insurance salesman.``
....what about clive cussler?...read any of his works?...
#37 Posted by rsaxena on January 11, 2002 4:27:35 am
re: Zafar
{Saxena, I blame you. We are now both poor AND stupid. One was more than enough, but no, you had to encourage him...}
...we`ll be happy despite being poor and stupid as long as he`s not a part of our country...which, despite his claims, he is thankfully not...
{btw, is it true what he says about you - air conditioned and all? Obviously hanging out with too many Scandies.}
...nah, unfortunately am far from scandy right now...but not far from your neighborhood...singapore...
{Saxena, I blame you. We are now both poor AND stupid. One was more than enough, but no, you had to encourage him...}
...we`ll be happy despite being poor and stupid as long as he`s not a part of our country...which, despite his claims, he is thankfully not...
{btw, is it true what he says about you - air conditioned and all? Obviously hanging out with too many Scandies.}
...nah, unfortunately am far from scandy right now...but not far from your neighborhood...singapore...
#38 Posted by AAmir on January 11, 2002 4:27:35 am
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#39 Posted by rsaxena on January 11, 2002 12:12:38 pm
re: AAmir
{Can you guess my neighbourhood???}
Dog Kennel #2
Eunuch Road
Pakistan
{Can you guess my neighbourhood???}
Dog Kennel #2
Eunuch Road
Pakistan
#40 Posted by Shah on January 11, 2002 12:12:38 pm
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#41 Posted by Shah on January 11, 2002 12:12:38 pm
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#42 Posted by Rafique on January 11, 2002 12:12:38 pm
Urstruly 29; Your critiqe is actually quite welcomed. One of the purposes of placing this piece on a public website is to get everyone`s views on it. And to get new ideas on the storyline. I am interested in finding out about your assumption of the Gambit. And whom you consider to be the King.
Rest assured this will not be 125 chapters long. I don`t have the time, the interactors won`t have the stamina, and Chowk may not have the disk space to accomodate that much. These chapters are actually abridged versions of the original. They are somewhere in between an abstract and the actual chapter. Due to this, they lose much of the original feel and details. I am assuming Chowk will publish them, as long as the interactors find them interesting. So that factor will decide the length of this abridged version of this novel.
hamirau 34; Thanks for the information on NORAD. I always thought the mountains were in Wyoming. I drove through Wyoming last year, and spent a half an hour looking for them. No wonder I couldn`t find them.
The US military is the biggest employer of individuals with higher education, in the the USA. It also probably has the highest budget to purchase hi-tech equipment, also. It would be interesting to see the internals of the US Space Command.
aicha 35; I think the future of Thrillers is terrorism and the Internet. I have yet to read a really good fictional Thriller with detailed technical commentary about the Internet. There is a book titled, ``The Cuckoo`s Egg,`` by Ciff Stoll. It is a true story of how a professor caught a group of criminals over the Internet. Very interesting for techies.
semipreciousme 37; I have not read Clive Cussler. I am still stuck on Clancy. Sometimes I think Clancy goes into so much technical detail just to make his books longer. He just wrote one on the Net, which I will start reading soon. What does Cussler write about?
Aamir 39; You either live close to the Penobscot River in Maine or in the USSR, if you are refering to the locations depicted in the movie. If you are refering to the actual filiming locations, then my guess in Maryland, California or London.
P.S. I have still not read a better Thriller writer than Ishtiaq Ahmad. I used to be hooked on his Inspector Jamshed and Inspector Kamran Mirza Urdu stories, as a kid. Not to mention Imran Series by Ibn-e-Safi.
Have anyone read any of these Urdu stories?
Rest assured this will not be 125 chapters long. I don`t have the time, the interactors won`t have the stamina, and Chowk may not have the disk space to accomodate that much. These chapters are actually abridged versions of the original. They are somewhere in between an abstract and the actual chapter. Due to this, they lose much of the original feel and details. I am assuming Chowk will publish them, as long as the interactors find them interesting. So that factor will decide the length of this abridged version of this novel.
hamirau 34; Thanks for the information on NORAD. I always thought the mountains were in Wyoming. I drove through Wyoming last year, and spent a half an hour looking for them. No wonder I couldn`t find them.
The US military is the biggest employer of individuals with higher education, in the the USA. It also probably has the highest budget to purchase hi-tech equipment, also. It would be interesting to see the internals of the US Space Command.
aicha 35; I think the future of Thrillers is terrorism and the Internet. I have yet to read a really good fictional Thriller with detailed technical commentary about the Internet. There is a book titled, ``The Cuckoo`s Egg,`` by Ciff Stoll. It is a true story of how a professor caught a group of criminals over the Internet. Very interesting for techies.
semipreciousme 37; I have not read Clive Cussler. I am still stuck on Clancy. Sometimes I think Clancy goes into so much technical detail just to make his books longer. He just wrote one on the Net, which I will start reading soon. What does Cussler write about?
Aamir 39; You either live close to the Penobscot River in Maine or in the USSR, if you are refering to the locations depicted in the movie. If you are refering to the actual filiming locations, then my guess in Maryland, California or London.
P.S. I have still not read a better Thriller writer than Ishtiaq Ahmad. I used to be hooked on his Inspector Jamshed and Inspector Kamran Mirza Urdu stories, as a kid. Not to mention Imran Series by Ibn-e-Safi.
Have anyone read any of these Urdu stories?
#43 Posted by tahmed321 on January 11, 2002 12:12:38 pm
Aamir #39 ```Hunt For Red october` Thomas Clancy...was filmed near my home .Can you guess my neighbourhood???``
The ocean floor??
The ocean floor??
#44 Posted by aicha on January 11, 2002 3:02:15 pm
Aamir 39 - ah-hah i see all possiblities have been covered. But didnt you say you were in Utah??
aicha
aicha
#45 Posted by Josh on January 12, 2002 2:27:18 am
Forget fiction, stick to software. Even pulp fiction requires a modicum of talent
#47 Posted by aicha on January 12, 2002 2:27:18 am
Rafique 44 - will def get hold of that too - thks ! Must add your earnestness has made this board taht much nicer to come to.
Take care,
aicha
Take care,
aicha
#48 Posted by rsaxena on January 12, 2002 2:27:18 am
re: retard
{{Singapore was like Kashmir part of a bigger muslim Majority Malayi(Malaysia) before it was let go by Muslim to separate as Chinese Minority Majority City /Country of Singapore.}}
dude, shut up...lazy, incompetent malays are a curse on their own society, let alone singapore...obsessed with religion while the chinese and tamils contribute all the progress...malaysia and indonesia are the banana republics in that part of the world...
{{Singapore was like Kashmir part of a bigger muslim Majority Malayi(Malaysia) before it was let go by Muslim to separate as Chinese Minority Majority City /Country of Singapore.}}
dude, shut up...lazy, incompetent malays are a curse on their own society, let alone singapore...obsessed with religion while the chinese and tamils contribute all the progress...malaysia and indonesia are the banana republics in that part of the world...
#49 Posted by AAmir on January 12, 2002 2:27:18 am
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#50 Posted by AAmir on January 12, 2002 2:27:18 am
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#51 Posted by mfarooqui on January 12, 2002 2:27:18 am
Chowk Editors and Chowkwallahs:
Apologies for sidetracking this board temporarily, but I have a request of all chowkwallahs:
I don`t know if I am the only one who has this difficulty, but many times on Chowk I`ve wanted to follow more than two reply threads and to have them visible on the screen at the same time. Rather than simply make a request, I`ve tried to solve this, and have put together a sample Chowk site at:
http://members.home.net/qawwalli1/
At the bottom of the page are links to the sample site. This is what you need to click on. To get into it the user name is: concept and the password is also: concept (both lower case). The page that comes up has a link called ``redesigned chowk``.
My humble request is to ask as many of you as possible to look at it and let me know if it just a waste of time or if it really is something useful. If useful, Chowk Editors, you may have it (if you like it of course!)
Now, for DRUMZ (and actually for others who may be interested as well): DRUMZ, a while ago you had made a comment that you did not find Islam deep enough or profound enough. That makes me ask of you a small favor: I`ve provided a link (named ``DRUMZ``) which will take you to an article on the same site. Hope you find it readable enough - I`d really like to hear your comments after you read it. No problem if you don`t (at worst you can always click right out of it!)
For those who explore the site further (there are visual goodies!) A warning!! This is a site that has Flash/audio and needs a cable or fast connection. Please explore, move the mouse around and click away everywhere on the fashion site page.
Apologies for sidetracking this board temporarily, but I have a request of all chowkwallahs:
I don`t know if I am the only one who has this difficulty, but many times on Chowk I`ve wanted to follow more than two reply threads and to have them visible on the screen at the same time. Rather than simply make a request, I`ve tried to solve this, and have put together a sample Chowk site at:
http://members.home.net/qawwalli1/
At the bottom of the page are links to the sample site. This is what you need to click on. To get into it the user name is: concept and the password is also: concept (both lower case). The page that comes up has a link called ``redesigned chowk``.
My humble request is to ask as many of you as possible to look at it and let me know if it just a waste of time or if it really is something useful. If useful, Chowk Editors, you may have it (if you like it of course!)
Now, for DRUMZ (and actually for others who may be interested as well): DRUMZ, a while ago you had made a comment that you did not find Islam deep enough or profound enough. That makes me ask of you a small favor: I`ve provided a link (named ``DRUMZ``) which will take you to an article on the same site. Hope you find it readable enough - I`d really like to hear your comments after you read it. No problem if you don`t (at worst you can always click right out of it!)
For those who explore the site further (there are visual goodies!) A warning!! This is a site that has Flash/audio and needs a cable or fast connection. Please explore, move the mouse around and click away everywhere on the fashion site page.
#52 Posted by mfarooqui on January 12, 2002 2:27:18 am
Sorry, DRUMZ - I forgot to mention the link is called:``songs of love and devotion``
#53 Posted by ZafarA on January 12, 2002 2:27:18 am
Reply RSaxena #38
In Singapore is it?
Very gooood! Can Singlish or notlah? True is it, Singaporegirl all very kiasuwaaaaaaaaaan? Trueornotwah?
Whatall you are doing in Singslah? Lepak lepak? Makan? Chari jamban? Or dapak when you see one scandywan is it?
Please give my best SM Lee, ok.
In Singapore is it?
Very gooood! Can Singlish or notlah? True is it, Singaporegirl all very kiasuwaaaaaaaaaan? Trueornotwah?
Whatall you are doing in Singslah? Lepak lepak? Makan? Chari jamban? Or dapak when you see one scandywan is it?
Please give my best SM Lee, ok.
#54 Posted by rsaxena on January 12, 2002 2:27:18 am
re: 12-heard retard Aamir
{i didnt you couldnt read}
...if everyone on chowk chipped in a $1 for you to take Engish classes, would you agree to go?...heck, i`ll put in $2...and when you`re done with that, we can send you to this pet grooming store my colleague just sent her dog to...
{i didnt you couldnt read}
...if everyone on chowk chipped in a $1 for you to take Engish classes, would you agree to go?...heck, i`ll put in $2...and when you`re done with that, we can send you to this pet grooming store my colleague just sent her dog to...
#55 Posted by tahmed321 on January 12, 2002 2:27:18 am
AAmir #46 ``i didnt you couldnt read ENGLISH...READ ````ONLY`````` intelligent Aicha ,Rafique ..fools``
I CAN make OUT your SENTENCE above, ``THOUGH``. So, I AM not A total FOOL, dont YOU think???
PS That post of yours was so short that I thought it was the OTHER AAmir (y`know, the normal AAmir, with only one head).
PS How are the other hydra-heads doing today? I hear Fatimah-head is having an affair with Bhardwaj-head??
I CAN make OUT your SENTENCE above, ``THOUGH``. So, I AM not A total FOOL, dont YOU think???
PS That post of yours was so short that I thought it was the OTHER AAmir (y`know, the normal AAmir, with only one head).
PS How are the other hydra-heads doing today? I hear Fatimah-head is having an affair with Bhardwaj-head??
#56 Posted by dilawar on January 12, 2002 1:57:50 pm
Forwarded from sherdil:
``Looks like Chowk did not put on my last two posts. This is a simple and straightforward message here: Time for Pakistan and President Musharraf to stand our ground. If it is war with India, let`s get it on. Musharraf has bent over backwards to get the Indians to talk peace and has had nothing but petulance from them. Any more than what he has done is unreasonable. Whatever else is asked of Pakistan, it cannot be appeasement anymore. It`s time we stood up with dignity.``
``Looks like Chowk did not put on my last two posts. This is a simple and straightforward message here: Time for Pakistan and President Musharraf to stand our ground. If it is war with India, let`s get it on. Musharraf has bent over backwards to get the Indians to talk peace and has had nothing but petulance from them. Any more than what he has done is unreasonable. Whatever else is asked of Pakistan, it cannot be appeasement anymore. It`s time we stood up with dignity.``
#57 Posted by semipreciousme on January 12, 2002 1:57:50 pm
Rafique
``semipreciousme 37; I have not read Clive Cussler. I am still stuck on Clancy. Sometimes I think Clancy goes into so much technical detail just to make his books longer. He just wrote one on the Net, which I will start reading soon. What does Cussler write about?``
….his genre’s mainly thrillers-cum-adventure….pretty good….his main protagainst works for an American secret agency, and goes without saying, has saved the world many a times over...
``semipreciousme 37; I have not read Clive Cussler. I am still stuck on Clancy. Sometimes I think Clancy goes into so much technical detail just to make his books longer. He just wrote one on the Net, which I will start reading soon. What does Cussler write about?``
….his genre’s mainly thrillers-cum-adventure….pretty good….his main protagainst works for an American secret agency, and goes without saying, has saved the world many a times over...
#58 Posted by rsaxena on January 12, 2002 1:57:50 pm
re: zafar
{Very gooood! Can Singlish or notlah? True is it, Singaporegirl all very kiasuwaaaaaaaaaan? Trueornotwah?}
can do lah..can do...but little bit only lah
{Whatall you are doing in Singslah?}
trip for work lah..wucking wucking...
{Please give my best SM Lee, ok.}
SM Lee or Goh?
I see you`ve been hanging around Orchard Road as well...
{Very gooood! Can Singlish or notlah? True is it, Singaporegirl all very kiasuwaaaaaaaaaan? Trueornotwah?}
can do lah..can do...but little bit only lah
{Whatall you are doing in Singslah?}
trip for work lah..wucking wucking...
{Please give my best SM Lee, ok.}
SM Lee or Goh?
I see you`ve been hanging around Orchard Road as well...
#59 Posted by harimau on January 12, 2002 1:57:50 pm
Ref tahmed321 #: 48
[How are the other hydra-heads doing today? I hear Fatimah-head is having an affair with Bhardwaj-head??]
And crying, ``Rape of Muslim woman by Hindu Brahmin!``
[How are the other hydra-heads doing today? I hear Fatimah-head is having an affair with Bhardwaj-head??]
And crying, ``Rape of Muslim woman by Hindu Brahmin!``
#60 Posted by Godot on January 12, 2002 8:26:32 pm
Re: Rafique, #44
``Not to mention Imran Series by Ibn-e-Safi.``
Hey, I was totally hooked on Jasoosi Dunya and the Imran Series while growing up in Pakistan (I used to pretend I was Colonel Faridi!) I collected them. Collected almost all of them. Rooshi, Balck Zero...what memories you brought up for me! Ibn-e-Safi lived not very far where I lived in Karachi. Once, my best friend (who was also a fan of his) and me went to his house and got his autograph.
But, for me, the best-ever spy novel is ``The Spy Who Came in from the Cold`` by John La Carre. l Absolutely loved it. Couldn`t put it down.
Re: AAmir, #52
``His [Ibn-e-Safi] sons have a web site``
Can you let me know the URL? Thanks.
``Not to mention Imran Series by Ibn-e-Safi.``
Hey, I was totally hooked on Jasoosi Dunya and the Imran Series while growing up in Pakistan (I used to pretend I was Colonel Faridi!) I collected them. Collected almost all of them. Rooshi, Balck Zero...what memories you brought up for me! Ibn-e-Safi lived not very far where I lived in Karachi. Once, my best friend (who was also a fan of his) and me went to his house and got his autograph.
But, for me, the best-ever spy novel is ``The Spy Who Came in from the Cold`` by John La Carre. l Absolutely loved it. Couldn`t put it down.
Re: AAmir, #52
``His [Ibn-e-Safi] sons have a web site``
Can you let me know the URL? Thanks.
#61 Posted by AAmir on January 13, 2002 2:09:35 am
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#62 Posted by Deodrant on January 13, 2002 2:09:35 am
How can MUsharaff just give away support for Kashmir .DO YOU THINK THIS IS BOOLYWOOD LAAGAAN MOVIE ,THAT AAMIR KHAN WILL PLAN A UPSET WIN OF INDIA BY WRITING THE SCRIPT .INDIANS HAVE BEEN WATCHING BOLLYWOOD MAKE BELIEVE ,FEEL GOOD,WISHFULL THING, MOVIES FOR FAR TOO LONG
#63 Posted by Rafique on January 13, 2002 2:09:35 am
Josh 47; Don`t worry, I am sticking to software. This is just a hobby. Pulp Fiction, by the way, was a huge hit, which transformed US cult cinema, not to mention the career of John Travolta.
aicha 50; This has been interesting experience for me also.
Aamir 52; What is the website`s URL?
Semipreciousme 61; I will check out Cussler. Have you read The Fifth Horseman by Lapierre and Collins? These two authors are my favorite. They write the same book in French and English, respectively.
Godot 64; Imran Series is a classic. I read a few. It was more sohpisticated than Ishtiaq Ahamd. By the time I got past Ishtiaq Ahmad, I was hooked on English stuff. So never got too deep into Imran Series. But one would have to say, Imran Series is the benchmark of Pakistani Thrillers.
I haven`t read any La Carre. Although many readers consider him the top Thriller writer.
P.S. Could someone explain the significance of the term 12-head on this thread. Should I include him/her as a character.
Just submitted the second chapter of this fledgling story to Chowk. Let`s wait and see whether the Chowk editors will publish it.....
aicha 50; This has been interesting experience for me also.
Aamir 52; What is the website`s URL?
Semipreciousme 61; I will check out Cussler. Have you read The Fifth Horseman by Lapierre and Collins? These two authors are my favorite. They write the same book in French and English, respectively.
Godot 64; Imran Series is a classic. I read a few. It was more sohpisticated than Ishtiaq Ahamd. By the time I got past Ishtiaq Ahmad, I was hooked on English stuff. So never got too deep into Imran Series. But one would have to say, Imran Series is the benchmark of Pakistani Thrillers.
I haven`t read any La Carre. Although many readers consider him the top Thriller writer.
P.S. Could someone explain the significance of the term 12-head on this thread. Should I include him/her as a character.
Just submitted the second chapter of this fledgling story to Chowk. Let`s wait and see whether the Chowk editors will publish it.....
#64 Posted by rsaxena on January 13, 2002 2:09:35 am
re: 12-head AAmir
{{A bania who is intern of a jew}}
how`d you know? half the firm is indeed jewish.
unlike you, i`d rather be an `intern of a jew` than an intern of a mullah who takes you in the backroom for `special meetings`...
{{A bania who is intern of a jew}}
how`d you know? half the firm is indeed jewish.
unlike you, i`d rather be an `intern of a jew` than an intern of a mullah who takes you in the backroom for `special meetings`...
#65 Posted by tahmed321 on January 13, 2002 2:09:35 am
harimau #63 Greetings. How is our half-brained sob feeling today?
#66 Posted by tahmed321 on January 13, 2002 2:09:35 am
Aamir #60 Sorry to bore you, sir. You see, I have only one head, and therefore cannot entertain folks on chowk by being changing nicks like you do.
#67 Posted by tahmed321 on January 13, 2002 8:11:53 pm
Aamir #72 Ha! Ha! You have a sense of humor, I `ll grant you that.
#68 Posted by aicha on January 14, 2002 2:30:17 am
12-head - term of endearment for an interactor who feels compelled to use diff handles (he has his reasons!) At last count it was 12 - hence the term.
aicha
aicha
#69 Posted by saminashah on January 15, 2002 11:34:32 am
aicha,
I think its more than 12...add Ashok, Glen, snopy...can we get a definative list, somebody? Chowk editors?
I think its more than 12...add Ashok, Glen, snopy...can we get a definative list, somebody? Chowk editors?
#70 Posted by halur on August 29, 2004 6:59:07 pm
Ah, wish fullfillment here. Deep down, the inheritors of Timur, Babar and Ghazi, feel ashamed at having frail india as the enemy.
But battling with Israel, ah , that will make them respected by Arabs, a true honour.
But battling with Israel, ah , that will make them respected by Arabs, a true honour.
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