America’s Responsibility

Gymnosophist: If I was u Id be more worried about the ``Gym`` part. U do know what sort of ``activities`` were held in Greek gymnasiums right?

Stuka: Dude was either very smart or brilliant but I doubt his roots were in Greece. The amount of info they stole from the Egyptians is astounding. U know how western history is taught right? Starts from Greece, to rome then pauses for a bit and starts again in the rennaisance.

MF: Nice page. The rumi quote was deep yet simple. The questions were worth asking. Page two was mostly agreeable though some of the opinions seem too esoteric. Practical Islam would never agree with it (u cant say ur posts are defending ISLAM cuz its an insignificant minority within Islam that would agree with u). Its also very dangerous to delineate like that. If u tell young folk that the spiritual is higher, theyll get TOO SPIRITUAL too early. Their soul will begin leaving (wanting death etc). Thats plain wrong. There`s a reason WHY we`re here. We must function by worldly laws (``male``) and other wordly (``female``). Life requires balance. One is not superior to the other. I think u understand this. I no longer believe that one world is superior to the other (not in this life time). The whole servants of Allah is an odd concept for me. WHY the hell does ALLAH have us here anyways? I didnt ask for this sh1t. Is my imperfection a reflection of Allahs imperfection (or am I gonna go to hell for even questioning HER)? Anyways this is the tightest site on Islam ive ever seen. U shoulda touched on the symbolism of the crucifixion and Shaitan in sufism. We need to meet up sometime and go over this again.

Anaryan: Im chillin right now. This isnt serious, I just get intense at times (I can say the same thing with more humility and reverance, but that approach doesnt often WORK). If u agree there is such a thing as useless info, would u agree that its ALL we see here? Everyone defends their country/religion. So Im Paki, doesnt mean im gonna defend them. Patriotism is the depth (height?) of stupidity. Follow? Take away the patriotism, the pathetic cut and pastes and who`s opinion are u left with (plagerism)? There`s actually GROWN ADULTS on this site advocating WAR!! This is actually REAL. This IS happening. Can u believe that? War? And for what? And if that isnt STUPIDITY then what shall I call it? How am I gonna let that be?

Prem: Ill stop on tuesday - after my exam. Until then its gonna get ugly. And I should get some points for not mentioning a particularly evil empire...

hamidm

``....... westmoreland was right - life is cheap in asia .......``

Was this in justification of what the US did in vietnam?

From the hebrew bible

Ecclestiastes 3:

There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven:

a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot,

a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build,

a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance,

a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain,

a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away,

a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak,

a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

AnNy

Yes, and yes. But that`s besides the point. You seem to be taking this personally and that wasn`t my intention. Just to let you know that the EME and the MES haramkhors are known to be even more corrupt than ASC and Ordnance branches, and that is saying a lot.

dost-mittar # 294

Mittar ji, thank you and happy Lohri to you and all other Punjabi brethren.

“May the only fires that burn in the land of five rivers be the bonfires of Lohri” – no one could have said any better.

May God bless our people with little more common sense and little less sense of “thekedari” to correct injustices in the neighborhood and beyond.

romair

``I think you, like Ayaz Amir, are now a closet Musharraf-lover. Ayaz has come out of the closet, somewhat. But, like a girl in love, you are playing hard to get. I think you can come out and show your affection openly. ``

....... armymen, or the clowns in khaki as i afectionately call them, have done more harm to pakistan than any politician other than zab, and musharraf is no exception .....of course, ayaz and i and mrs hamidm have no other choice but to support him at this point .... after all he is all that stands between us and the salivating saffron brigades on one side, and the mad mullahs on the other ......but that does not mean that we have to love him - he still represents the third biggest evil in pakistani society .. the top two being the feudals and the mullahs .......

....... musharraf and his minions in red tape need to go back to the mess hall and the regimental bars which, hopefully, will be back in business soon ......and if the people want benazir or nawaz sharif back, it is none of his business - he is not an ataturk and serves at the pleasure of commadant ten corps and not the pakstani people .....

...having said that, i think he did a pretty good job with the speech yesterday - hopefully he can deliver and will not let the imam of lal masjid in islamabad run him out of town ...... let`s not forget that ayub khan left town after a week of riots and two dead polytechnic students ......

....... i also hope, for our sake, that the horrible hindoos will wipe off the froth from their muzzles and back off ..... mushy doesn`t have too much wriggle room - heck even in my own house i am the only one who in willing to give up kashmir and its silly inhabitants whose only contribution to mankind is the personal space heater (kangri) and straw sandals ......they say, ``kashmir belongs to us`` ...... ``but you are from illinois``, i say ....... ``traitor! indian-lover! bad abu!`` .......now, if i can`t control three women on this kashmir issue, i doubt if the clown in khaki can talk sense into one hundred and forty million miserable souls who dream of kashmir while they continue to suffer from hunger and head lice ..........

aamir/hydra

re: burqa

``maybe thats why skin cancer is foreign to TRUE muslim women?``

Perhaps skin cancer is foreign to Muslim women who wear the burqa, but there are a corresponding number of rights that are also foreign to Muslim women in ``TRUE`` Muslim countries. Lets look at Saudi Arabia, where all Muslim women are forced to follow one interpretation of Islam. Or Afghanistan, where if women didn`t follow the ``TRUE`` Islam, they were punished in an inhumane manner. Btw, Afghanistani women did not wear burqa before the extremists preyed on their country. What is ``TRUE`` about that interpretation of Islam? What is ``TRUE`` about control and misogyny disguised as religion? Mehrbani se, try to stick to this point, and not squirm out of it by pointing fingers at the West.

Who are you to make a judgement of who is a ``TRUE`` Muslim woman? Who do you think you are to force your sick interpretations of Islam on anyone? If a woman decides to wear a burqa or dupatta of her will, it is her right, and HER relationship with Islam. You and your opinions are irrelevant to the matter.

Btw, if you wore the burqa for ``fun`` and it was like wearing a ``ski mask``, perhaps you should wear it all the time...otherwise you are just playing cheap and ridiculous games.

semipreciousme #265
IMO, though we cannot all have the same opinions, at least we should be able to agree on facts. Wish jay would realise he is just plain wrong on the facts where Urdu(and Hindi) are concerned.

dost-mittar #260
`` Here is something that Musharraf said that is directly aimed at India`s concerns:

``No organization will be allowed to indulge in terrorism in the name of Kashmir. We condemn the terrorist acts of September 11, October 1 and December 13. Anyone found involved in any terrorist act would be dealt with sternly. Strict action will be taken against any Pakistani individual, group or organization found involved in terrorism within or outside the country. Our behaviour must always be in accordance with international norms.`` ..``

dost-mittar, thanks. Taken in context of his speech in the current situation, these indeed seem to be heartening words.

Taken in context of recent Indo-Pak history, these words can easily mean nothing. Apparently, at the Agra Summit, the phrase `cross-border terrorism` was being included by both sides in the Agra Declaration, until it came out that the Pakistani side didnot consider the LOC a border hence the term `cross-border` didnot apply to Indian Kashmir. By the same token,, `abroad` maynot mean Indian Kashmir. We already know `freedomfighting` is not terrorism, and I have read articles written by Pakistanis (even in the TFT) about how Pakistani citizens and Pakistani organisations` armed involvement in Indian Kashmir is in accordance with international norms.

IF Musharraf`s speech is indeed an indication of a genuine paradigm-shift in internal affairs and hence on the Indo-Pak front( no other Pakistani leader has come out so equivocally against extremism in internal matters), then his words signal true intent and are heartening. We have to wait and see.

Considering the past performances -- the TOUGHEST part for Mian Musharraf was giving that historic SPEECH -- the ACTION part -- should be child`s play EASY.

I have been told from reliable sources -- that the subcontinental Nukes in possession of India and Pakistan are SO SOPHISTICATED -- they have an electronic guiding system cum homing device that is ethnocentric -- called Hindu Kush and Muslim Kush.

Pakistan`s nukes will kill ONLY the Hindus and Spare the Muslims of Delhi -- and India`s ones will ONLY kill the Muslims and spare the Hindus of Karachi!!

Like the sub continental morality -- the sub continental science is just plain -- amazing!!

Bravo -- ``Long Live`` -- India and Pakistan Generals (the rest can die) -- 3 cheers for the sub continental ingenuity!!!

nasah #279: This new item will make you feel better: ``ISLAMABAD, Jan 12: The police said on Saturday they had arrested over 350 militants ahead of President Pervez Musharraf`s speech later in the day, which will focus on curbing extremism. `` Hope he cleans up the mess his predecessor general made, and then steps aside himself as well. Then I will know that God is indeed watching out for Pakistan.

Hmmmmmmmm.....I see a post from busted-tube-audio-video...I see ghoosay-say-pyar-kye-ja writing...I smell the middle east rat Goldsteen...I see a post from the unlearned professor Bodenheimer...Like rain, one speech from Field Marshall Musharaff (I just promoted him) brings all these screeching, whining, scowling, howling creatures out of their holes in the ground.

Shah/hydra

Dude, don`t assume for a single moment that I`d dignify your insistance for suras from the Quran. My joke was not slandering the Quran, it was poking fun at an interactor who has so many nicks, he can`t keep track of them, and reverts in an unstable manner between them. My comparision was to the practice of having as many wives as you could satisfactorily support. If you can`t be consistant, you do a disservice to you many and sundry nicks.

If everyone knows you have about 20 nicks, and that you`ve used them to give a deceptive impression of a false and diverse community that agrees with you opinions, and everyone knows it, why bother? It seems to be a lot of unnecessary trouble for you. Maybe you like the attention.

Btw, when have you worn the burqa and in what cicumstances?

Prem and Hasan re: General Padmanabhan,

Both of you seem to have missed the point. The General`s tough talk is only to impress on Pakistan that India is serious this time and it`s not all talk by the politicians.

Don`t you see how the Pakistanis are trembling in their boots now that they realize that they can`t use nuclear blackmail on India?

Moreover, can you please point out the irresponsible statements he made in his press interview? WIll really appreciate it.

tahmed

``Unless of course ``anyone`` happens to be one of the few millions who lose their lives...Please remind me again how your disregard for human life is different from that of Osama ben Laden.``

.....it is not my regard or disregard for human life that matters - it is how our nations view human life .... it is a fact that indians and pakis as individulas can be very compassionate people, but put three of them together and they turn into a murderous mob ......

....we will totally gnore the victim of a road accident and beat the poor taxi driver to death; if we catch a petty thief he might as well be dead; and if we hand him over to the police they will hang him upside down and make him wish he was dead; shop-keepers in bano bazaar who don`t miss a chance of fondling a passing derierre will gang up on an ``eve-teaser`` and beat him to a pulp; nurses in our hospital will not interrupt their breakfast to change a dying man`s soiled bed sheets .... yes, we don`t have the same regard for life as more evolved people .....pass the butter, please.....

....... westmoreland was right - life is cheap in asia .......