America’s Responsibility

Ref hydra-Lajwanti #: 409

Jan-17-02 14:47:36 EST Reply #: 400

saminashah

You know, I am suspectng. Very woried about Ali1. I can see u have turned new leafm so I am asking as Muslimah – plz talk to Ali1, and warn him. He should not go down garden path with this soandso hooligan Ahmedia from London. Afqqi probably has whiteChristian girlfriend, or maybe jewish...I cannot say haram thing, but maybe alsothat is truth?]

You are NOT a woman. You started out as Studebaker and we all know that cars are men`s toys. So, if at all you wore a burqa at any time in your pathetic life, it would have been to sneak into a women`s restroom, which I don`t put past you.

As to Afaqui`s whiteChristian or Jewish girlfriend, he is only dating a Woman of the Book and that is halal, not haram, according to Al-Kitab.

Ref rsridhar #: 407

[re:A letter to editor in TFT.

From guess whom?

...I would like to burst his bubble by naming Pakistani Hindus who have reached prominent positions. Let us start with Jogindranath Mandal, a scheduled caste Hindu, who played an important part in the Pakistan Movement. In 1946, he was nominated by Mr. Jinnah on a “Muslim” seat in the Viceroy’s Interim Cabinet. He was the first acting president of the Pakistani Constituent Assembly. Then he served as the first Law Minister of “Muslim” Pakistan.]

YLH is the master of the half-truth. He stops Jogindranath Mondol`s {that is how the Bengalis would spell it, not Mandal) story at a point convenient to him.

Sigalph has pointed out that Mr. Mondol left Pakistan and settled in India. It is not that the desert climate of West Pakistan didn`t suit someone from waterlogged Bengal. The political climate in Islamic Pakistan did not agree with this man`s philosophy.

As to his nomination by Mr. Jinnah on a “Muslim” seat in the Viceroy’s Interim Cabinet. Jinnah wanted to show that if the Congress could nominate Muslims even though according to him it was a ``Hindu`` party, the Muslim League would score a point by appointing a Hindu to show that it is an inclusive party. So this was just a political gimmick. Maybe Jinnah had thoughts of converting the 200-odd million Dalits of India to Islam by this gimmick but unfortunately for him, nobody in the Dali community bought his crap and the old way of the sword was passe not to say punishable under the Criminal Procedure Code.

More for US to take responsiblty for. Do not trust US, it is Christian/Jewish plot against Muslims:

From Friday Times

America to lay siege to China

Famous intellectual Asadullah Ghalib wrote in Khabrain that America will lay siege to China after occupying Kashmir which India and Pakistan will lose. Kashmir will serve as America’s launching pad for a siege of China. He said the Afghan policy of the ISI was destroyed by the American invasion of Afghanistan while the Kashmir policy of the Foreign Office was under pressure.

Reply Harimiaow #397

Reply Saminashah #401

re:A letter to editor in TFT.

From guess whom?

``Sir,

This is in response to Mr. Premkumar Harimohan’s letter “Re Indian Muslims” (TFT Jan 4-10), in which he presents famous token Muslims as proof of India’s multiculturalism and secularism. He then asks for similar cases of Hindus from Pakistan, as if the presence of token Hindus or token Muslims absolves Pakistan and India from the discrimination that exists in both states.

I would like to burst his bubble by naming Pakistani Hindus who have reached prominent positions. Let us start with Jogindranath Mandal, a scheduled caste Hindu, who played an important part in the Pakistan Movement. In 1946, he was nominated by Mr. Jinnah on a “Muslim” seat in the Viceroy’s Interim Cabinet. He was the first acting president of the Pakistani Constituent Assembly. Then he served as the first Law Minister of “Muslim” Pakistan.

And who can forget the contribution to Pakistan’s polity that the socialist Hindu Sobho Gianchandani has made? Didn’t the PPP have a Hindu federal minister from Sukkur? What about Anil Dalpat’s wicket-keeping heroics for the Pakistani cricket team? I can quote from the “Pakistani Hindu Patrika” and give a hundred more names of prominent Pakistani Hindus, but I think the above will suffice to show that we Pakistanis too have our token Hindus to counter India’s token Muslims. But does that prove that India and Pakistan have treated their minorities equitably?

Yasser Latif Hamdani,

New Brunswick.``.

This letter by the way is very balanced, shorn of ill-feelings or bias.

Way to go, ylh.

Sridhar

re: Musharraf`s speech

I am not the only one who feels Musharraf`s bold decision will hail him as the latter day Ataturk (that is, if he succeeds).

Following is the article by Saeed Naqvi of Indian Express: Url: ``http://www.indian-express.com/columnists/saee/20020111.html``

``A latter day Ataturk?

Once Musharraf takes the brave decision, the Americans will refashion their ties with Pakistan



IS General Pervez Musharraf’s survival at the helm in Pakistan of any consequence to us?” I asked one of the more thoughtful men in Indian public life. He fell into deep thought.

The discussion was about the military build-up. The situation was fraught with dangers as well as possibilities for us as also for the general.”When a strong wind blows, the grass bends.” I offered a lazy, tentative thought explaining the general’s behaviour. Then, after a pause, I corrected myself. “But that image implies that after the wind has blown over the grass straightens and thrives, weeds et al.”

Basically, the image is based on the appraisal of the Americans as having short attention spans. It does not take into account September 11, the day the world changed, including or rather led by the Americans.

The air campaign is entering its 100th day, the longest since the Gulf and the Kosovo wars. Meanwhile, permanent bases are coming up. I have seen them at Kuliab and Dushanbe in Tajikistan, Manas in Kyrgizistan, Khanabad in Uzbekistan and eight others, including some in Pakistan.

Meanwhile the International security assistance team is incrementally throwing a security cordon around the establishment being led by Hamid Karzai in Kabul. In other words, there is a permanent, secure architecture being put in place in Afghanistan so the wind is not blowing over. The U-turn effected by General Musharraf in his Afghan policy was under extreme American pressure. But it was also, according to observers of the Pakistan scene, a considered policy of ridding his country of the Jehadi menace, something he had begun in small doses even prior to September 11.

Pessimists were predicting a destabilisation of Pakistan, civil unrest, Musharraf in line of danger. But in the event what really happened? Nothing happened. A few expected protests fizzled out. The pessimists, in my view, demonstrated a poor grasp of the subcontinental Muslim mind.

Remember when Rajiv Gandhi was grappling with the idea of upgrading relations with Israel? How his advisers, those whose views were valuable to gauge the Muslim mind, scared him of upsetting the Muslim vote. Rajiv initiated the process, P.V. Narasimha Rao concluded it. Not only was there no adverse Muslim reaction but some groups got in touch with Kaplan Travels in Jerusalem for a pilgrimage to Al Aqsa.

Is Musharraf about to take the risk again, this time on the question of terminating terrorism directed at Kashmir and India? Of course. The massive Indian military build-up is real and even dangerous. But analysts occasionally develop an amnesia about the vigour of Indian democracy. The other day some of us journalists shared a table with Home Minister L.K. Advani. I was astonished at the war mongering around the table, which made Advani look like a cooing dove. I suddenly became aware how relatively tepid my response to Dec 13 had been. Of course, the military build-up is tactical and fringe elements hope to benefit in the February elections to the UP and Punjab assemblies but to dwell just on these would be to trivialise the build-up. The build-up is in response to the strength of public opinion that took some of us by surprise — around that table, for instance.

Therefore, it is wrong on the part of Pakistani interlocutor’s who complain that there are elements in India “who would like to rub Pakistan’s nose to the ground”. That is peeved response. Did you hear what British Prime Minister Tony Blair said in Islamabad? The international community will not tolerate terrorism in support of political causes — even political causes whose strength and logic cannot be disputed and which must be settled. President Bush is a little less categorical but he is almost there. Americans are very clear on two things: they would like Musharraf to pull back from terrorism but they will not push him beyond a point. His survival is important. India cannot pull back from the brink because its bottomline after December 13 is exactly the same as the one that turned out to be a deal breaker in Agra — end cross-border terrorism.

In July it looked like a maximum demand being advanced too early. Since September and December anything less makes no sense.

The evaluation in Washington, London, Paris, Bonn is that the Army is squarely behind Musharraf and the Jehadi groups are too fragmented. Once Musharraf takes the brave decision, the Americans are waiting to refashion their long-term relationship with Pakistan — this will come with financial assistance and arms transfers (on commercial basis which would cheer up the arms industry in the US and the Army in Pakistan). The Chinese have their own problems in Xinxiang and the Chinese premier’s visit mid-January can only add to good sense without letting down Pakistan.

Ghalib describes Prophet Abraham’s courageous leap into the fire of Nimrod: it became a garden. Pardon my lyrical excesses but I believe Musharraf stands at that defining moment in history when a courageous step could well earn him the title of a latter day Ataturk. He must, of course, make it clear that abandoning terrorism is without prejudice to his total political support for Kashmir, the issue which, along with others, must be settled through dialogue with India.

My political friend, who has considerable say in matters of state, suddenly came back with a start. “If Musharraf is a man of that mettle then we must have an interest in his survival”.``.

Sridhar

Re: Fuzair

``... I didn`t think that I`d be missed...``

Chowk personalities grow on you, and one such as you (with your wit, dispassionate rationality, and knowledge) is surely missed. So, welcome back.

Re: Tahmed321

``... I think there are numerous such forgotten pieces (from WWII, and indeed about other events in recent history like the partition, 1965, 1971 and so on) that will be forgotten once the generation that lived through those events fades away...``

There are a few tidbits that I can share with you as well. My great grandfather once exchanged a `paghri` with President (of Pakistan) Leghari`s grandfather. Leghari comes from a feudal, land-owning family, and exchanging `paghris` was a sign of mutual respect.

One of granduncles was a CID officer in British India, and was tasked with finding out how Subhash Chandra Bose escaped from under house arrest. Somehow, my relative had obtained Bose`s pocket watch, but it was lost forever during the turbulence of the Partition. Can you imagine what Sigalph235 would pay for it today?

That same relative was also asked to investigate and find out who the ringleaders were of the mutiny in the Indian Army in Singapore in WWII. When he reached Singapore as an undercover operative, he was recognized by a jawan from his native village (now in Pakistan). The jawan offered to help with the investigation, which (no surprise) ended successfully. For this, my relative received a commendation from the British government. A few months later, the Indian Army in Egypt mutinied. Again, my relative was sent, and lo and behold, the same jawan was there -- and he extended the same help once again!

Needless to say, my relative rose through the ranks, and retired as a top police official in a large Indian state after Independence.

err. . . Godot . . . hate to bring this up again . . . but whaddya Yanks have to say about y`know . . . Nicaragua?

Lajwanti

re: ``cutle``

Cutle: curlers, cutlet

So behain, you wear cutlets in your hair in the supermarket? Is this a traditional thing?

Lajwanti,

Again, I am fascinated by your responses...indeed you have proven to me that all sports can be played wearing a burqa.

How about swimming?

``moment on lips``? I`m afraid I don`t know what you mean. Could you explain? Plus, there is no hope for the interactors who are shameless and shams, but not Shams-and sadly these interactors would have him hung...

Shammi and Prem:

I am overwhelmed by your welcome. Thank you. I didn`t think that I`d be missed, much less welcomed back with such enthusiasm! Honestly, I`m touched!

I was bogged down with work for quite a while and then I was travelling much of the time as well, within the US and also a few weeks in Pakistan. Lahore was great--except for the smog/fog and the military convoys (in full camo with blacked out formation signs) moving up to the defense lines--and the food truly superb, as usual (must have gained 5 pounds just stuffing myself). Although the army brat in me still prefers Pindi to Lahore!

Tahmed: Thats a great story!. My (late) uncle (father`s cousin) was a Lieutenant in the ASC in the Indian Army during WWII and served throughout the Burma campaign. He had some great (and some horrifying) stories to tell about the Burma campaign and the AT regiments taking supplies up to the front lines. He was also a great admirer of FM Slim.

So, Prem, you`ve piqued my curiosity. Whats up?

Regards to all.

Shammi/rjanjua: Glad you found that little forgotten piece of history interesting. I think there are numerous such forgotten pieces (from WWII, and indeed about other events in recent history like the partition, 1965, 1971 and so on) that will be forgotten once the generation that lived through those events fades away. I think we should record ``interviews`` with these people before it is too late and they are gone. Without waiting to get organized, we can simply start with ``family movies`` of the older generation on the assumption that 50 years from now someone will find it valuable history. I bet each one of these old folks have stories to tell that would make one realize that things are not either black or white, but rather change color depending on the angle you look at them from (the Nagasaki bomb in this case).

Ref Lajwanti #: 394

[I used to like, but now I am worried Afaqui may be hooligan, bad influence on Ali, leadinghim down garden path to vice, drinking, wine, women, pork, nightclubs, marjuana and oth3er drog, unnatural act, bestial, etc.. What you think?]

Methinks Ali1 doesn`t need anybody leading him down the garden path to unnatural act, bestial, etc. It comes naturally to him.

re: tahmed

``The day before their ``mini-D-Day``, the Japanese surrendered following the atomic bomb at Nagasaki. No doubt that bomb saved many lives that day (my father-in-law being possibly one of them, since he was a young officer in the Corp of Engineers on board that ship that day).``

This is very interesting tahmed sahib. I did`nt know that elements of the Briitish Indian Army were part of the mainland invasion team. My cousin (and a good friend) who is commanding an Engineer Battalion somewhere on the Punjab front right now - never misses an opportunity to remind me that their primary role is that of infantry (they do wear that blue chindi) and the secondary role is that of sappers.