The Identity Crisis of a Modern Muslim

Reply # 441 harimau

[However, you need to know something about Hindu women.

Even if they are married to the worst misogynist on earth, they will not say that in their next life they want to marry a different person. Because, for them, life continues when they are re-born and marrying a different person would be infidelity to their current husband.]

I have read this mumbo jumbo elsewhere. Things have changed since you left your RSS shaka in the 60s.... I have heard of a few married Hindu women who ran away with the handyman.... but you can live in your time warp, no problemo!

aicha….forget zafarsaab…are u sure you’re not related to anNy?…:)

Ref dost-mittar #: 416

[We poor folks in Ottawa can`t afford any of these artists (sigh!!)]

How about marking your calendar for the first week of April? Rumor is Vyjayanthimala Bali will be performing in Toronto. No filmi stuff... just classical Bharath Natyam.

Ref Zafar Al-Talib #: 447

[Clout? Actually it sounds like laziness! What do you mean you never could get around to doing that? Thank goodness that at least Valli behaved decently…]

Not laziness! It is a question of being in Madras and knowing if Valli would be home or touring because of her programme! But as you pointed out Valli is a fantastically gracious person. She has been among the top Bharath Natyam

performers and doesn`t have an ounce of the prima donna in her.

[I have not yet had the pleasure of seeing Padma Subhramanyam dance, but hopefully will some day.]

It will be an intellectual treat.

[Re: flexibility etc.: age doesn’t stop Bharat Natyam dancers, it just changes how they dance – Balasaraswati ended up just sitting and doing mudras and facial expressions (what’s the word here?) to the music, but apparently that was as powerful as full on tillana type stuff by younger dancers. Perhaps what older dancers lose in physical ability they gain in Abhinaya?]

You are completely correct about that. Since one aspect of the dance (foot movements) is no longer possible, they become teachers and tend to concentrate on `bhava` (facial expressions) and `abhinaya` (hand gestures). I had the privilege of attending a lecture by an older Kalakshetra dance teacher and she was just wonderful. I have also seen women dance well into their early 50s and the good ones are still able to do their tillanas. Though you can see that they are winded at the end of each piece. Dance is a very vigorous art and a good dancer is an extremely good athlete.

It is indeed great that dance has been rescued from obscurity in the last 60 years.

Have you seen Odissi dance? A variant of the Bharath Natyam, it is really fantastic.

Ref dost-mittar #: 416

[If Padma Subramanayam is the same person I am thinking of, I believe she gave a workshop last year in Toronto. If I am not mistaken, she is the sister of the ATN satellite channel owner, Shan Chandrasekhar.]

You are right that Padma`s brother is a resident of Toronto who produces an Indian TV program. It took me a while to recollect that. Her programs are usually compered by her other brother, Balakrishnan.

Incidentally, Padma is the daughter of Mr. K. Subrahmanyam, one of the early producers/directors of movies in Madras. When I say early, think of the 1930s. I believe he was a lawyer by profession but got attracted to the new artistic medium of cinema.

Reply Drumz # 440

``... U need to stop saying ISLAM IZ...``

Well spotted! It`s definitely spelled with two zeds.

Reply Sadna # 407

“btw, I once travelled from Delhi to Lucknow with Birju Maharaj and Saswati Sen(of Shatranj Ke KhilaDi fame) and their families in the next railway compartment, hows that for my own claim to fame :)?”

I`m speechless.

Reply Harimau #: 411

“Alarmel Valli? Drove her up from eastern United States to Montreal for her performance (quite a while back).”

Ok, impressed. Not just winingdining with the stars but also doing parampara. Very good. Savaab ka kaam, if I may say so.

“A friend of mine in Madras who wanted his daughter to learn from Valli asked me for an introduction. I could never get around to doing that though I was visiting Madras for an extended period at that time so one day he just went up to her home and mentioned he was my friend and got his daughter accepted as a student. Now, THAT is clout!”

Clout? Actually it sounds like laziness! What do you mean you never could get around to doing that? Thank goodness that at least Valli behaved decently…

I have not yet had the pleasure of seeing Padma Subhramanyam dance, but hopefully will some day. Re: flexibility etc.: age doesn’t stop Bharat Natyam dancers, it just changes how they dance – Balasaraswati ended up just sitting and doing mudras and facial expressions (what’s the word here?) to the music, but apparently that was as powerful as full on tillana type stuff by younger dancers. Perhaps what older dancers lose in physical ability they gain in Abhinaya? (Comforting thought, I think I’ll hold on to that.)

“Anytime you want to associate with these folks in Australia, let me know. I will give you an introduction to folks in Sydney who are into these cultural programs and you can kiss your weekends and free time goodbye if you choose to volunteer!”

We have a relatively high proportion of Southies among the Indian immigrants here, and are lucky that they include people who are interested in, and knowledgeable about, the arts. Consequently there is a very active group that organises recitals – home grown dancers and instrumentalists (haven’t heard any Australian born Carnatic vocalist, but perhaps some time???), and also the occasional visiting performer. (Does “Bombay Jayashree” ring a bell or do I misremember?)

A friend of mine was very involved in this, so I got hooked into it that way – but thank you for your kind offer. Cultural type stuff of a good standard is one of the things I miss most about living in Delhi.

Dear Dost Mitter ji:

To your very interesting question -- ``I had always understood that ghazals were originally addressed to a boy and not to a woman.`` -- there are probably three different explanations or opinions.

One is that it is directed NOT to the boys but to their male lovers.

The other is -- that it is indeed addressed to a female -- but in a ``lateef`` way -- to hide her identity from the prying eyes of innumerable ``raqeebs`` (rivals) -- she is addressed as a male -- it`s like putting a poetic ``burqa`` on her precious gender.

The third possibility is -- that in Deccani Urdu -- specially in the Hyderabad region -- females not only carry male names but also use the tuzkeer verbs (male gender) for themselves in their Urdu conversations. May be in the development of Urdu gazal it reflects regional influence.

The progressive movement put an end to that practice -- and it`s no more ``crude`` to address one?s female beloved as a female.

But the Gazalgos of old school still feel uncomfortable in using the ``taanees`` in their gazals.

I am glad you liked the article. Adaab.

Prem----435

Nice topic indeed.

One of my favourite Ghazal which has also bee sung very well by Talat Mehmood.Nasah,try to get an audio(it is ot easy because it is one of the `hidden` ones).Poet is Daagh Dehlvi.

(As you guys must be aware that Navab Daagh was the son-in-law of Navvab Fakhroo,son of Bahadur Shah Zafar;last Emperor of India 1857)

Voh jaatey hain,aatee hai,qayamat kee sahar aaj

rotaa hai,gulay mil key,duaaon sey asar aaj

Shokhee sey tehertee naheen,quatil kee nazar aaj

yeh burq e bulaa,dekhiyay,girtee hai kidhar aaj

ummeed yeh kehtee hai,voh aatey hain tehr jaa

hai zubt kee taakeed,keh,dunyaa sey guzar aaj

yeh shauque yeh armaan,yeh husrat,yeh tammanaa

kiyaa ho miray quaboo mein jo naa jaayay agar aaj

__________________________________________________

Please give your appreciative comments & give some angle which in your opinion is subtle & sublime.

I hate mussalamans so much that I have fallen in love with Budhism again.

Drumz!

In a sense we are talking past one another. Instead read my very long post - OK take 2 or 3 days to read it - Why? - because it has the basic positions from which others follow - I am also talking about invention, about that which is permanent and that which is temporal, subject to change, About separating``wheat from Chaff`` and ``Husk from the corn`` - Your brother understands where u are coming from - You said you were interested in social change - please review the model of social change in my long post - you will notice it is a feedback system - but one that is constantly renewing itself.

Be patient with me Puto! read my post for what it says not what someone or you think it says.

Rdesikan - Chitchat`s famous Peach Melba (but alas it is nomore) and Lakeview`s Apricot Icecream w cream. But Natesan`s is still around. Some new stores have also opened up. If you have time for chaat - you must have it at Maheshwaris behind Commercial St. Cant comment anymore simply because the nostalgia is tooooo much. Have fun when you visit and dont forget to keep us posted.

Layman - i agree!

Ref ali1 #: 423

[haramiu:

It seems like you haul Indian singers and dancers around when they visit the US. I was wondering if Varsha Bhosle is your daughter?]

My hauling around Indian artists is limited to classical musicians and dancers.

However, you need to know something about Hindu women.

Even if they are married to the worst misogynist on earth, they will not say that in their next life they want to marry a different person. Because, for them, life continues when they are re-born and marrying a different person would be infidelity to their current husband.

I am sure this concept is alien to you. In fact I have been told that a Muslima, if she wants to remarry her husband after a divorce, not only must marry somebody else but must have sex with him. Obviously, you and I have different cultural backgrounds and that explains your question.

I hope you have a better understanding of Hindu women now.

Hobby: Uv got me flowing now, last point, I promise... U need to stop saying ISLAM IZ... (pluralism, tolerance etc).

The word IZ refers 2 CREATION. You`ve created a thought in your head, then youve created it on screen. The word also refers to INTERPRETATION. Since you are the creator, u see the creation through your eyes, in your mind, via your own interpretation of how it looks like.

Consider this question, ``WHAT DOES THE UNIVERSE LOOK LIKE?`` See what I mean, different people will see different things in it as they will all cognitively compare its parts to other things they see (experience).

Its not that Islam is pluralistic, its that HOBBS` islam is pluralistic. Whereas someone else`s Islam is absolute, the only way etc. All these arguments pin one persons interpretation of the SAME thing against anothers. The Question of who sees it better is irrelevant cuz some people will always see it their way. Remove self from the equation cuz Islam exists independent of your eyes. You are simply at a stage where u see it ``better`` then most. Yet where there`s smoke there is FIRE (other rigid interpretations exist cuz they are supposed to - For Islam is not one, it is many). This is why it is so difficult for anyone to separate barbarism from Islam (cuz islam cultivates it), same with pluralsim (cuz islam cultivates that too).

So whoever is in power, her interpretation becomes official. This sh1t is bigger then ``right vs wrong.`` I wish we`d all take what is good and move on... It is POINTLESS to STOP cuz there is only so much Islam can give u. The moment u start teaching is the moment u stop learning.

Hobby: Also, we are not attacking your beliefs. I really dont care what anyone beleives, thats on you. However, if someone comes at me saying Allah says this, or Farrakhan said that, I know enough about them to make sure that mufukka doesnt dare open his mouth again.

MFarooqui posted an almost perfect interpretation of the Quran, which anyone can agree with. Other then that piece, just about every defence of Islams can be shot down in seconds.

And since you`re on this level, lemme make this clear. It is suicide to give Islam absolute values. Islam is simply a car (a very broken down 87 Honda at that). It ONLY takes u to a destination, the absolute. Hobby: take what is good and move on, do not stay behind to defend what is bad - it will reflect in your arguments.