A Mathematical Genius

rsridhar---60

Now after giving me the befitting reply do you not think that you have forfeited any exclusive claim on hurt feelimgs?

Even so,Please accept my heartfelt apology for my acidic satire.I promise not to be this crass to you again.The way you complained just touched me.

Sorry again.Friends?

PS:No you do not have to read or not read whatever I suggested.

re:Reply #: 58

hamzad afaqui,

i have no intention of ever interacting with you. Your posts in another forum have hurt my feelings bad. I have given a befitting reply. Consider this as the last time i am interacting with you.

I have no intention of reading Qoran. I suggest you tell some of your own brethren to read that book in its proper perspective. Had that been done, the world today would not have had to deal with the Bin ladens and the Mullah Omars.

I, however, have a St. james version of the Bible in a story form. I enjoy reading some chapters from that great book every now and then.

Sridhar

Re: Rsridhar

``...He was a genius when it came to reproducing what he was taught and what he learned from class and his books. Was he creative?...``

Not all sub-100 IIT rankers are `creative` in the sense that Nash was -- i.e. proposing something so new that it took years for it to be fully appreciated. However, a significant percentage of them are overachievers professionally. One 7 ranker that I know has gone on to become the computer special effects guru for Sony Pictures -- he combined his genius in mathematics/computer science with his love for films.

rsridhar---57

[I think lives of geniuses reinforce our belief in God. It is possibly God`s way of constantly reminding us of His presence]

Thank you for reminding us of this.This also points out to the fact that how many geniuses & potential greats perish for no Hardy is `sent` to them.

``Verily,Allah knows best``

PS:Please read Quran as just `any` book,without any reference or guide.The message will `descend` on you as well.

re: Reply #: 39

Mr Gill,

Thanks for a fascinating account of Ramanujam. I remember reading about those details in the book ``The man who knew infinity`` (Thanks Pankaj for the reference; i had read the book some years ago and forgotten its name).

Ramanujam himself, when asked how he came up with these numbers, said with modesty that Goddess of Namakkal (a family deity)inspired him in his dreams (schizophrenia?). Nobody, not the least Hardy, believed him.

His last days were spent fighting against the ravages of T.B and trying to put all his ideas in a notebook. He would do many steps to a solution on a black board and write only the tenth step or so in the notebook. Thus, to a reader, there was this huge gap between the first and the next step in calculations. This is the area of research in many Universities in USA.

The state where he was born (Tamil Nadu)chose not to honor him because he was a brahmin. He died in utter poverty and his wife probably lives on a small dole from the central govt.

I think lives of geniuses reinforce our belief in God. It is possibly God`s way of constantly reminding us of His presence.

regards,

Sridhar

re:Reply #: 45

shammi,

Fascinating story about your friend. I know i told you of a class mate of mine in Delhi, who was brilliant. This guy came 7th in JEE in 11th std. and went to Delhi IIT. He maintained a perfect score during his years in IIT and went to Stanford to do PhD on a scholarship. I have since lost touch with him. He too was a recluse and hardly made any friends. He was a genius when it came to reproducing what he was taught and what he learned from class and his books. Was he creative? That is hard to answer.

Sridhar

re:Hamzad:

Thanks for your comments regarding my web page and the article on Western Men who`ve converted to Islam.

Yes Arsh, Urooj Zaidi et al are listed on my Zaidi directory, but I don`t know them personally nor is there any immediate relation to them.

Fozia

re: scout

{{it`s more behavioral than mental, a mix of insecurity and the desire to get attention by all means necessary...which has worked...he`s definitely grabbed the attention of everyone on Chowk except for me because i`m special. why don`t you try being special too and ignore the fellow.}}

i can`t ignore the fool...i enjoy whipping his stinky behind too much to ignore him...

Dear freethinker

``The man who knew infinity`` is a biography of Ramanujam written by Robert Kanniegel. It is a very beautifully written book that touches all aspects of Ramanujam`s life, beliefs etc. It also contains a photocopy of that fateful letter to Hardy from Ramanujam. The author tries to explain the genius of Ramanujam but in the end he leaves the question open-ended. I can not tell you more but it is fascinating read for anyone, not just mathematicians.

hamzad #49 why is it so important to you that ``prominent western men`` convert to islam? Do you think God could care less whether you are muslim or christian or any other religion. You are an example of the many muslims who follow the path of chauvinism and egotism. The path of Islam goes in the opposite direction, towards respect for all faiths and all people.

PS Incidentally, how about ``non-prominent non-western men``? Do your sources consider them worthy enough to have lists drawn for them too? Or are you merely revealing the your subconscious awe of western men, which you try to compensate by posting this lengthy cutandpastes of the glory of the muslims?

Dear Soysauce and Hamzad Afaqui:

Thank you for bringing the book on ``Man.....Infinity`` to my attention; I`m picking up a copy from the library tonight. I had read Hardy`s book but this is a new book.

I`m not particularly hooked to Ramanujan, so to say, although he interested me a lot. Reading about the creative people is my pastime.

Dear Fozia and other Readers:

Thanks for your comments, wishing you well,

Mohammad Gill

#49 hamzad

You are terribly mistaken.

What comes across clearly is how it was touch & go with Ramanujan. He might just as easily not have made it into the pantheon of the gods of mathematics. Kanigel also brings it out quite clearly that the control that Ramanujan`s mother had over him extracted a heavy emotional price. Quite an achievement considering the cultural chasm that separates an american writing in late 20th century and an orthodox south indian brahmin living almost a century before.

soysauce---48

I read it 6 years ago,It is indeed fascinating.The role of Hardy & the racist character of the english society is exposed.

If I remember somewhat,it mentions how the large companies are still after the scraps of paper he left behind in his room.

__________________________________________________

fozia:This is especially for you.I hope it is new for you.

SOME PROMINENT WESTERN MEN

WHO EMBRACED ISLAM

(U.K) RT.HON.SIR ROWLAND GEORGE ALLANSON- LORD HEADLEY AL-FAROOQ (SHAIKH RAHMATULLAH AL-FAROOQ)- Born in 1855, Lord Headley Al-Farooq was leading British Peer who embraced Islam in 1913,after being educated at Cambridge University and serving in the British Army as Captain and later as Lieutenant Colonel. He was the author of several books, including ``A WESTERN AWAKENING TO ISLAM``

(U.K) DR. ARTHUR (ABDULLA) – He was and eminent Biologist, Electrical Engineer, and Professor at the University of London and the University of Oxford.

(SOUTH AFRICA) SHUNMUGAN APPADURAY (ABDUL-AZIZ)- Former Sunday School Teacher and Bible Student of the Pentecostal Church.

(JAPAN) AHMAD ARIGA- Trader and Muslim missionary of the 1930`s.

(U.K) ABDULLAH BATTERSBEY- Major of the British Army.

(GERMANY) ERWIN BAUER- Editor of the ``Al-Fadjr`` Islamic magazine in Hamburg.

(FRANCE) DR. ALI SELMAN BENOIST – Doctor of Medicine.

(USA) ``RAP`` BROWN (JAMIL AL-AMIN) –AFRO – American who was the Chairman of the (STUDENT NON-VIOLENT COORDINATING COMMITTEE) of the Civil rights era. He lives in Atlanta, Georgia.

(U.K) SIR LAUDER (JALALUDDIN) BRUNTON –was and Oxford educated statesman and baronet, and public man of wide repute.

(FRANCE) DR. MAURICE BUCAILLE- A surgeon who has taken great interest in the scientific aspects of the Qur`an. He learnt Arabic and managed to study the Qur`an in its original text. He was amazed with its precise scientific data. As a result of his study. Dr. Bucaille embraced Islam.he has since written THE BIBLE, THE QUR`AN AND SCIENCE AND WHAT IS THE ORGIN OF MAN? He is a personal friend of Captain Jacques Cousteau.

(USA) Cassius Clay (MUHAMMAD ALI) – Former three –time world famous heavy- weight boxing champion. He is an Afro-American who is founder of the Muhammad Ali Islamic Foundation in Chicago, Illionis.

(USA) BOB CRANE – Ex- Economic Advisor to President Nixon.

(GERMANY) AHMED VON DENFFER – Author of Islamic books.

(AUSTRIA) DR. ROLF FREITHERR VON EHRENFEELS (DR. UMAR ROLF BARON EHRENFELS) – Born as the only son of the late Baron Christian Ehrenfels, (founder of Austria`s modern structural (Gestalt, psychology). Dr. Ehrenfels accepted Islam in 1927, and later became a Professor of Anthropology and authored numerous scientific and Islamic publications.

(UK) COLIN (ISMAIL) EVANS- Author of Islamic books in the international language of Esperanto.

(FRANCE) ROGER (RAJA`A) GARAUD – Served fourteen years as a member of the Politburo of the French Communist Party, and was vice president of French Parliament. He is now President of the Geneva –based Institute for the Dialogue of Cultures, and has set up the Calahorra Exhibition in Cordoba. Spain, a center showing the great Muslim heritage of Spain.

(HUNGARY) DR. ABDUL KARIM GERMANUS – Head of the Dept. and Professor and Scholar of Oriental and Islamic Studies at the Budapest University.

(USA) ALFRED GRIFFIN—Afro -American Corporal, U.S. Marine Corps, court- martialed in 1983 for refusing to fight against fellow Muslim brothers in Beiruth.

(FRANCE) RENS GUENON (SHEIKH ABDUL-WAHED YAHYA)- Philosopher and author of metaphysics and Islamic books.

(JAPAN) ARAI HAKUSEKI – A famous Japanese scholar of the early 1700`s. He was the first commentator on Islam in Japan.

(USA) ROGER HALVORSON (MUHAMMAD RASHEED) – Vice President (Medical Division) of El-Seif Development, Saudi Arabia. Former Catholic who embraced Islam in the late `80`s.

H(U.K.) SIR CHARLES EDWARD ARCHIBALD WATKINS AMILTON (SIR ABDULLAH ARCHIBALD HAMILTON BART) – Born in 1876, he was a well-known statesman ,Baronet, and Lieutenant in the Royal Defence Corps. He embraced Islam in 1923.

(U.K.) IBRAHIM HEWITT— Journalist.

(GERMANY) MUHAMMAD AMAN HOBOHN – Diplomat, Missionary and Social Worker.

(U.K) MUHTAR HOLLAND – Linguist, translator, lecturer and senior research fellow in the Islamic Foundation of England.

(NEW ZEALAND) ALAN (ADIL) IREALAND – Journalist for the Evening Standard newspaper in New Zealand.

(CANADA) DR. THOMAS B.THOMAS B. IRVING (TA`LIM ALI) – Professor at University of Tennessee, and author of Islamic books.

(USA) GERMANINE JACKSON – Afro – American from Gary, Indiana. Formerly of the Jackson Five family pop singing group. Brother to Michael Jackson.

(U.K) DENYS JOHNSON – DAVIES (ABDUL WADOUD) – Translator.

(USA) MUHAMMAD JAMAL – Owner of the American Islamic Bookstore in Newark, New Jersey. (Known for feeding the homeless).

(USA) Jimmy-Jones—Afro-American Professor at Springfield College in Massachusetts and a volunteer Muslim chaplain in the Connecticut prison system.

(CANADA) ABU- BILAL MUSTAFA AL- KANADI – This Islamic author embraced Islam in Vancouver, B.C., Canada in 1974. He was a BA holder of English literature, and studied at the Language Institute of Umm Al- Qura Univ. in Makkah, Saudi Arabia. Upon graduation he then entered the College of Shariah ( Islamic Law) and Islamic Studies. He graduated with honors in 1983 and in1989 completed his Masters Degree in Qur`anic Sciences he has written a number of treatises on various topics, as well as ``THE ISLAMIC RULING REGARDING WOMEN`S DRESS – ACCORDING TO THE QUR`AN AND SUNNAH``.

(IRAN) DAVID BENGAMNI KELDANI, B.D. (PROFESSOR ABDUL AHD DAWUD, BD) -- was formerly a Christian Reverend before embracing Islam.

(KOREA) ABU- BAKR KIM—Islamic author.

(POLAND) ATAULLAH KOPANSKI – Professor and former communist who worked closely with Lech Walesa and the Solidarity Movement.

(JAPAN)HISHAM KURODA – Islamic author.

(PHILIPPINES) LUIS LACER – Islamic author.

(U.K.) PROFESSOR HAROON MUSTHAPHA LEON, M.A., Ph.D., L.L.D., F.S.P., -- accepted Islam in 1882. He was an active and honorary member of many learned societies in Europe and America. Dr. Leon was also a learned etymologist (a branch of linguistics), geologist, lecturer and author.

(U.S.A) MALCOLM x (EL-HAJJ MALIK EL – SHABAZZ)—was a world famous Afro – American speaker and author of the civil rights era, from Harlem, New York.

(USA) DR. KHALID ABDULLAH TARIQ AL-MANSOUR – Afro American Supreme Court Lawyer, businessman, religious activist, author and Islamic speaker.

(GERMANY) Dr. HAMID MARCUS—Scientist, author, journalist and former editor of ``MOSLEMISCHE REVUE`` Berlin.

(U.K.) MUSTAFA YUSUF MCDERMOTT – Author of Islamic books.

(HOLLAND) R.L. MELLEMA—Anthropologist, scholar and writer of Islamic books.

(JAPAN) HAJJI UMAR MITA—A well-known Japanese economist, social worker and preacher. Born in 1892, he embraced Islam in 1941. He performed the Hajj in 1958 and was elected President of the Japan Muslim Assoc. in 1960. He translated the meanings of the Holy Qur`an into Japanese in 1972.

(FRANCE) VINCENT MONTEIL – Specialist on Islam in Africa.

(JAPAN) ALI MUHAMMAD MORI – Social worker and preacher.

(SOUTH AFRICA) ADAM NCANYWA – Former Christian actor who starred in such movies as `My adventures in Africa`, embraced Islam in 1989.

(USA) UMAR ABDUR-RAHIM OCASIO – Puerto-Rican American who is an Islamic author.

(HOLLAND) FAUZUDDIN AHMED OVERING – Preacher and social worker.

(SWITZERLAND) ROGER (ABDUL KARIM) DU PASQUIER –well- known journalist and author.

(SRI LANKA) FATHER ATHONY PERERA, O.M.I. (NOOR QASIM)- Born in a Catholic family, he received training in a seminary in central Sri Lanka from 1962 –1971. He served as a parish priest in his native village of Mutuwal. He is now an associate of the Sri Lanka Islamic Centre, Colombo, Sri Lanka.

(U.K) WILLAM BURCHELL (BASHYR) PICKARD, B.A (Cantab), L.D. (London) – is an author, poet and novelist of wide repute.

AMERICAN –BORN CANADIAN) BILAL PHILIPS—Teacher, author and speaker.

(U.K) MARMADUKE (MUHAMMAD) PICKTHALL – well known translator and Muslim scholar.

(U.K) DAVID MARK(DAUD MUSA) PIDCOCK- Leader of the Islamic party of Britain.

(THAILAND) SURIN PITSUWAN, Ph.D – Islamic author and social scientist.

(U.K) ABDULLAH QUILLIAM –Lawyer in Liverpool, England in the 1800`s and 1890`s who inaugurated Britain`s first Islamic community.

(JAPAN) ABDUL-KHALIL T. RAMADA –He was the first known Japanese Muslim. He embraced Islam in 1893.

(U.K) HAJI SALEEM ROBERTSON—A military man who served in the Leicestershire Regiment in 1928. He embraced Islam while serving in Ceylon (Sri Lanka).

(USA) COL.DONALD S.ROCKWELL – Poet, critic and author.

(U.K) HUSSAIN ROFE – Social reformer who was raised by parents representing the Jewish and Catholic faiths. He later embraced Islam.

(JAPAN) ABDUL KARIM SAITHOH – Islamic author.

(GERMANY) MUHAMMAD SIDDIQ – In charge of the House of Islam in Lutzelbach, Germany.

(U.K) CAT STEVENS (YUSUF – ISLAM) – Former world – renowned pop singer. Founder of Islamic School – London . widely travelled speaker.

(JAPAN) MUHAMMAD SULEIMAN TAKEUCHI—Associate, Japanese Society of Ethnology.

(USA) IMAM SIRAJ WAHAJ – Afro- American Islamic speaker.

(USA) ALEXANDER (MUHAMMAD) RUSSEL WEBB (1846-1916) -- was born in Hudson, N.Y. As an adult he became an essayist, short – story writer, journalist and editor of two newspapers. In 1887 he was appointed United States Counsul in Manila, Philippines. It was during this assignment that he studied Islam. After becoming Muslim, he toured various Islamic countries and devoted the rest of his life to Islamic missionary work. He also became the Head of the Islamic Propaganda Mission in the USA. Mr. Webb is considered to be the first ``Anglo`` to embrace Islam in North America.

(U.K) JOHN (MUHAMMAD) WEBSTER – President of the English Muslim Mission.

(AUSTRIA- POLAND) LEOPOLD WEISS (MUHAMMAD ASAD) –Was born in Livow, Austria in 1900, (which later became a part of Poland). As a young Jewish man, he became an outstanding foreign corespondent for the ``FRANKFURTER ZEITUNG``, and after embracing Islam, he travelled throughout the Muslim world. After years of devoted study, he became one of the foremost Muslim scholars of our age, and has written numerous Islamic books. Mr. Asad has also served in the past at the United Nations as Pakistan`s Alternate Representative.

(USA) CLAUDE (AHMED) WINTERS—Afro – American anthropologist and writer of Islamic books, from Chicago.

(POLAND) WIESLAW (ISMAIL) ZEJIERSKI – Sociologist, reformer and social worker, was born in Kraskow, Poland in 1900 to a Roman Catholic family, which belongs to the polish nobility. He embraced Islam around 1950.

(JAPAN) KOTARO AL- HAJJ OMAR M. YAMAOKA – He was the first Japanese Muslim to perform the Hajj. The year was 1909.

__________________________________________________

#39 freethinker

There`s a recent biography of Ramanujan: ``the man who knew infinity`` by Robert Kanigel. It`s actually quite well written.

fozia---46

I visited your web page & I liked it.As a muslim I am immesely proud of you.Born & raised in Canada you could teach a thing or two to the kurrak murghees(cackling hens)here, who by pretending to know english/canadian/american languge,try to impress the poor dehatees(villagers) of Pakistan & India.

What these matrons do not know is that even the so called lowliest burqua-clad from Pakistan & Afghanistan is more cultured & sophisticated than these bumbusts or bustbums.

Is Urooj Z. & alia arshia on your list?How are you related to them--if!

Mohammed,

Prior to reading your article, I had never heard of John Nash or had any interest in viewing his movie. It was this submission of yours that piqued my interest on Mr. Nash. I spent some time reading more on his life and research over the next couple of days. And this last weekend I watched the movie ``A Beautiful Mind``.

It was a deeply moving movie and I really enjoyed watching it.

I`d like to thank you for introducing Mr. Nash to myself. I pray that one day your son will emerge from his shell as Mr. Nash did inshallah.

Regards,

Fozia Zaidi

http://www.geocities.com/zaidif786/

I recently saw the movie `Beautiful Mind` based on Nash`s life story. It was a very touching movie, to say the least. It immediately reminded me of a friend who although not a schizophrenic was a mathematical genius and suffered from the same lack of social skills that Nash exhibited. This friend (whom I knew from 4th grade through Ph.D. at Yale University) predicted that he would easily obtain a `sub-100` rank in the Indian Institute of Technology admission exam ONE YEAR PRIOR TO THE EXAM. Although we never doubted his genius, we all thought that he was nuts to make such a prediction because the difference of only a few points in the exam can make a difference of hundreds in the rankings! But sure enough, he ranked 64 in the All India list and went to graduate with a degree in Computer Science and then on to Yale University on a full scholarship. When he scored a perfect 800 on the GRE, The Times of India mentioned him in an article.

Unfortunately, his brilliance was evident to only a few people that he could socialize with, and for most he appeared to be a recluse, and a difficult person to get along with. He was constantly bored at school, and the teachers thought that he was disrespectful and indifferent.

suxena #33, ``what is the right term to describe the mental condition Studebaker suffers from?``

it`s more behavioral than mental, a mix of insecurity and the desire to get attention by all means necessary...which has worked...he`s definitely grabbed the attention of everyone on Chowk except for me because i`m special. why don`t you try being special too and ignore the fellow.

16 January 2002

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Instead of going out tonight, punch yourself in the nuts three times and the heart twice. This will save you approximately $75.

anarayan and tahmed321,

Yes, narayan, I have spoken to him. Everytime I return to India, I make it a point to see him, and talk to him, even if briefly, for he is very dear to me. And other than his mother, the only person he trusts and respects is me...which is very sad because I am not in India...and thus of not much help to him.

It is difficult to piece together the exact trajectory of steps or causations that led to his schizophrenia. Talking to him about it is of limited value since schizophrenia`s assault on him began when he was too young to understand his world through analytical prisms...and because schizophrenia broke the very instrument he could later use to grasp the world - his mind.

He was a brilliant kid, of artistic temperament, polite engaging demeanour, and phenomenal memory. About ten years my junior, he would happily square up against me in word games we played whenever I visited home from my boarding school. That`s when both of us fell in love with each other. I loved the way he stood out from the crowd, both in taste and in ability; and he was probably grateful that I recognized his special needs and tried to provide for them. For instance, when he was a grade five student, on his request, I helped him get school Hindi text books for grades seven and eight. To this day, I can not forget the look of bliss and gratitude on his young face.

I was certain he would go on to shatter all academic records in our extended family. But by the time he was in the seventh grade (11-12 years of age), changes must have begun inside of him. His performance in the 7th grade was merely average, and decidedly below average in grade 8. His father, who was a disciplinarian, tried to push him, which might have made matters worse.

I do not have more detailed knowledge of his childhood years because for most of that time I was away from Lucknow. But from a distance, and in horror, I watched him descend into full fledged schizophrenia between the years 13-17 of his age.

His disorder was recognized relatively early...and the best, if not the most expensive, treatment (counselling and medical) was provided to him. He is about 21 now...and the treatment continues...he has become relatively stable at this stage...but is a mere shadow of what a fine young person he would have been .....

What led to this tragedy? Nobody really seems to have an answer. Was it the stress of being so highly gifted? Or, the stress of being sent to a city-school at an early age? None of these things were unique to him in our family`s history. He was raised like everybody else...an existence of limited means and few luxuries, but with the basic needs of the entire joint family regularly met.

So, again, I don`t know. And nobody else does. One day our medical understanding of schizophrenia will become so complete, and medication so effective that treatment in every case will be successful. But until then the struggle and the bravery of both the schizophrenics and those dealing with them continues.

Dear Readers:

To day I picked up one of the books in my collection (The World Treasury of Physics, Astronomy, and Mathematics, edited by Timothy Ferris 1991) for leisure reading and when I opened it up, it unfolded on a chapter captioned “Ramanujan and PI” written by Jonathon M. Borwein and Peter B. Borwein. I had wanted to read a chapter on Dirac but I could not resist the urge to delve into Ramanujan again. Here in the following I share with you some of the material that I gleaned from Borwein and Borwein’s chapter. They wrote:

“Much of what he (Ramanujan) did, however, is still inaccessible to investigators. The body of his work is contained in his ‘Note Books’, which are personal records written in his own nomenclature. To make matters more frustrating for mathematicians who have studied the ‘Note Books’, Ramanujan generally did not include formal proofs for his theorems. The task of deciphering and editing the ‘Note Books’ is only now (1991) nearing completion, by Bruce C.Brendt of the University of Illinois, Urbana – Champaign…The effort is certainly worthwhile. Ramanujan’s legacy in the ‘Note Books’ promises not only to enrich pure mathematics but also to find applications in various fields of mathematical physics…Carlos J. Moreno of the City University of New York and Freeman J. Dyson of the Institute for Advanced Study have pointed out that Ramanujan’s work is beginning to be applied by physicists in superstring theory (for a popular and a non-specialist reading on superstrings, please refer to my paper on Chowk captioned ‘End of Physics’)”.

Before going over to England, Ramanujan had written letters to three British mathematicians for help and guidance in his work and G.H. Hardy was one of them. Borwein and Borwein described that “Hardy, accustomed to receiving crank mail, was inclined to disregard Ramanujan’s letter at first glance the day it arrived, January 16, 1913. But after dinner that night Hardy and a close colleague, John E. Littlewood, sat down to puzzle through a list of 120 formulas and theorems Ramanujan had appended to his letter. Some hours later they had reached a verdict: they were seeing the work of a genius mathematician and not a crackpot. (According to his own ‘pure-talent scale’ of mathematicians, Hardy was later to rate Ramanujan’s a 100, Littlewood a 30 and himself a 25. The German mathematician David Hilbert, the most influential figure of the time, merited only 80.)… He (Hardy) wrote that some of Ramanujan’s formulas defeated him completely, and yet ‘they must be true because if they were not true, no one would have had the imagination to invent them’…Ramanujan’s unique capacity for working intuitively with complicated formulas enabled him to plant seeds in a mathematical garden (to borrow a metaphor from Freeman Dyson) that is only now coming into bloom. Along with many other mathematicians, we look forward to seeing which of the seeds will germinate in future years and further beautify the garden”.

Thank you bearing with me. I believe, I got somewhat carried away and if I went overboard with Ramanujan, I beseech your gracious forgiveness. Regards,

Mohammad Gill

Re: #35

tahmed321,

Its a good thing you didn`t take up research as a career! Also your posts tell me you have never spoken to a schizophrenic. Never mind that, but you definitely should read up about prozac and its discovery. It will educate you on what the state-of-the-art is at the end of the 20th century.

Basically, the pharma-engineers first determine the rough shape and size of the molecule they are looking for...the one that will attach itself to the right place. Then they try to manufacture a stable molecule that fits this model. Then they try it on rats and finally on unsuspecting or desperate human patients. Doesn`t work?...try the next stable molecule.

This hit and trial, after several hundred failures, will produce a prozac. This is the state-of-the-art today. The brain is a black box. If problem X produces a imbalance of chemical Y, forget X and concentrate on chemicals that will control Y.

regards,



(Too bad drumz is not interested in this board.)

anarayan #28 Agreed that drugs suppress the symptoms only. HOWEVER, for the individual concerned, that is enough: suppression of the symptoms means the difference between an person living a normal, productive, happy life and of a person living in an asylum in a world of his own. And suppression need not be for brief periods of time, but ``permanent`` as long as the individual takes his medicine regularly. Freud, by emphasizing the role of childhood experiences rather than of brain chemistry, and thus put medical research on a dead end path for decades. It was only in the 1950`s that the effectiveness of medicine (as opposed to therapy sessions where people on couches ``talked out`` their problems) was accidentally discovered, and since then the entire field is now back on track. But countless millions in have needlessly suffered in the first half of the 20th century due to Freud`s red herrings.

As for the causes, advancements in genetics will no doubt improve understanding and/or find more effective ways to combat mental illeness: it seems that alzheimar`s disease at least has some good ``fixes`` coming along (like replacement of the damaged brain tissue with fresh tissue grown from stem cells). Having seen the way alzheimar`s reduces a person into a mindless body, I think the sooner they find a cure the better.

Prem #30: I too (like anarayan) would be interested in learning more about your relative`s experience with the disease.

May I request all these very well-meaning inter-actors here to cease from discussing this subject.Please wait for another appropriate board or originate an article on it.

Mr.Gill might perhaps be most knowledgeable about this subject because of a very personal involvement.

His article tells us about a genius but it also has another context vis-a-vis a commonality shared by someone very near & dear to him.

It is at such moments in life when one is well advised to stay away from intellectualism,objectivity,and cold-calculations.A human begins when ``logical`` is rendered ``illodgical``.(just coined the phrase--feel free to use it)

Ref Studebaker #: 34

[Diabetes is disease one of the PLDEST yet it is just defeciency of insulin & ``CURE`` so called ie replacing Insulin......]

I assume you are talking about Type I diabetes here. Type II diabetes is when the body doesn`t use the insulin it produces and you take medications that help re-sensitize your body to insulin. If you take insulin for Type II diabetes, it is in the hope that at least some of part of the massive doses you inject into the body will be useful in metabolizing glucose.

[Medicine like any subject is very complex now .]

So stay back in janitorial services in the nursing home you work in.

[there is no splitting of hair in medicine like LAW b/c our goal is not defenitiion but specfic as possible Diagnosis & improve quality of LIFE]

Yes, there is splitting of hair in medicine. Type I diabetes is not the same as Type II diabetes.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

what is the right term to describe the mental condition Studebaker suffers from? it`s some kind of multiple personality disorder, but there aren`t really multiple personalities...each of the 12 heads has the same imbecile character and low level mental retardation...

Prem,

``Studebaker is right. anarayan, you may want to study this subject more before you make statements on it.``

You need to be more specific. What specific part of my posts don`t you agree with? Well, at least you agree that schizophrenia is a disorder...and not a disease.

Did you REALLY speak to your relative? Try to understand him/her? Can you tell us what that person told you about his/her experiences? Specifically, how did it start? That would be interesting.

regards,

Re: #29

jay,

Right you are!

A psychiatrist friend of mine told me this standard joke in their community:

``The schizo lives in 2 worlds, up in the sky and down on the earth...and the psychiatrist charges rent on both``.

regards,

ref: studebaker, anarayan, tahmed321, and others on schizophrenia

Studebaker is right. anarayan, you may want to study this subject more before you make statements on it.

A very close relative of mine is schizophrenic. Consequently, I can provide anyone interested with a month`s worth of readings on the subject...but that is not necessary.

Schizophrenia is a medical disorder, pure and simple...a disorder (you may call that a disease)...that is more horrible than words can describe...and that tests every ounce of the inner strength of both the victim and victim`s family.

In this entire world I admire no one more than some people I know who have dealt with schizophrenia in a dignified and courageous manner. How they did it -- I don`t know....must be pure miracle.

Those of us who have watched the various colors of life from so up-close, the blessing of living takes on a different meaning...

People, please try to educate yourself, in whatever little way you can, about mental disorders... you will be doing only yourself a great favor.

Regards.

anarayan,

MAD CASES

I agree with you. Schizo, attention defcit dis orders etc are the outcome of a repressive social system as in the west. In this society thaose who are not economically productive have to be locked out of the mainstream. Children are locked up in schools, sick in hospitals, those who cannot take part due to behavioural reasons are locked up in nut houses, or drugged and left in the bed.

Scizo is a pattern of behaviour that is different from the normative which a psychiatrist identifies as a mental dicease. There is no objectively verifiable identifiers of any mental dicease. This class of alleged `dicease` are an outcome of the interaction of an alleged expert, called psychiatrist and a disadvantaged, usually not rich , individual. Howard Hueghes comes to mind, if he were not rich, may be the tahmeds, and shankars of the world would have drugged to make a living for themselves.

Re: #27

tahmed321,

``Actually it is a disease, and often more readily curable with medicines now available than people realize. The basic problem is that ``neurotransmitters`` (chemicals that tranmit information from one nerve cell to another) malfunction, thus distoring messages (thereby causing psychotic behavior, like thinking people on TV are talking to them and so forth). This problem is addressed by medicines that cause these chemical imbalances to be compensated, thereby bringing the individual back to ``sanity``. This is a simplified explanation from a non-expert in the business.``

Welcome to the world of non-experts!

Tahmed, what you wrote above is called ``treating the symptom, not the disease.``

Research has shown that schizophrenics have excess amounts of certain chemicals including dopamine and seratonin. My limited knowledge is that most drugs for schizophrenia are dopamine or seratonin blockers and suppressors.

Will this cure the `disease`? Which came first...schizophrenia or excess dopamine?



I think you misinderstood my earlier post. I`m not saying drugs don`t help. I merely said that all drugs can do is fight the symptom...because there is no virus or germ to kill in this case. The basic cause is psychological.

Does fighting the symptom help? Yes, sometimes it does.

By artifically restoring the balance (even for a short time)...the victim is brought back to reality for a while. This is of emormous help and this is the standard technique used also for depression.

regards,

anarayan #25 you write ``I don`t think schizophrenia is a disease...in the sense of being caused by viruses and germs. Its an internal problem caused by being in a state of excessive and continuous stress. ``

Actually it is a disease, and often more readily curable with medicines now available than people realize. The basic problem is that ``neurotransmitters`` (chemicals that tranmit information from one nerve cell to another) malfunction, thus distoring messages (thereby causing psychotic behavior, like thinking people on TV are talking to them and so forth). This problem is addressed by medicines that cause these chemical imbalances to be compensated, thereby bringing the individual back to ``sanity``. This is a simplified explanation from a non-expert in the business. By not treating mental illness as a disease that is often treatable but as a ``condition`` caused by stress (as you say), countless lives that could have been brought back to reality have been relegated to mental institutions. The only mental disease we have in south asia is to think we know more than we do.

Anarayan #25

``I don`t think schizophrenia is a disease...``]]

I hope you are not an Allopathic doctor even if non psychiatrist because you single handedly though unsucessfully ,tried to undo hundred years of public service announcement educating people about it.

Of course coming from India such ailments are treated by OJHA & SADHU ba ba in benares touting all sorts of charlatan palmistry ,astrology vedic science of Murli Manohar Joshi .There are similar influence in subcontinent Moulvis attempt to treated it by ``tabeez`` i will admit ,but atleast i dont trivialize it by amateurish attempt of ones unprofessional experience.

Gill Sahab,

I would like to apologize for the lighthearted manner in my previous post. I was off course not aware of your personal problem about which I feel deep sympathy for you and your family.

No doubt you have read a lot about schizophrenia and perhaps also consulted with very many good doctors.

I have been interested in this thing for some time. During my campus years I knew a number of students on the line and beyond. For some reason they gravitated towards me and I did my part for them...which was mainly to listen to them. So I would like to share some thoughts with you.

I don`t think schizophrenia is a disease...in the sense of being caused by viruses and germs. Its an internal problem caused by being in a state of excessive and continuous stress.

Its as if the brain has gone into an infinite loop - mulling over a unsolvable, personal problem continuously. Being a man of science you know of resonant systems...systems that feed energy back into itself. I feel this is something akin to that. Some very personal problem (real or imagined) causes anxiety...anxiety causes one more problem (victim says I need to get rid of this anxiety)...which again causes more anxiety...and so on. This keeps up long after the initial problem has disappeared.

The brain is tremendously resilient. But beyond the breaking point...it falls and falls rapidly. What is the state of the brain/mind in that depth? I would say if there is something called living hell...this is it. Its like watching yourself being eaten alive.

On the positive side, I believe the brain can heal itself. Its not a piece of machinery that once broken stays broken for ever. Once the infinite-loop is broken (somehow), the brain will slowly but surely fix itself.

Perhaps your son was ok in his teen years. How did it start? Was it a `girl` problem? It usually is. But, whatever the initial problem...its probably long gone now.

IMHO, the greatest hurdle in breaking the loop is to break the victim`s firm belief ``I-am-not-ok``. This is the problem that his brain is battling and its THE loop. He wakes up with this thought and goes to sleep with it.

best wishes,

Freethinker #21

Now i know who freethinker mysterious occasional mask man is.Be careful of me from now.

``I had mentioned Ramanujan`s name only incidentally; he was not the main character of my essay. My essay was about Nash Jr. who is agreat mathematician in his own right. It is strange that none of the inter-actors even said a word about him.``

How many Desi would be more interested in White Anglo Saxon ....Nash ,i dont know Ramanujen as i said most Indians are well aware of him...sorry think locally act globally

DRUMZ #20, ``One day ima come to NYC with my red turban and embarrass u at work, cool?``

Don`t forget the Kirpan, you might need it :)

freethinker--21

Mr.Gill

I appreciate you posting the stuff about Tesla.I did,however,glean some insights from your material about him.One does benefit from readily accessable material otherwise as you rightly pointed out every & all kind of info is available in the library & the net.The whole idea here is start a conversation and not,hopefully,to give a test to anyone.

Isn`t is amazing and awesome how these great minds impact our lives.In much more subtle,silent and profound manner than any ruckus-ratcheted revolution.The metaphor of a zero-sum game is part of our collective psyche now so from your article it dawned upon me that we are not simply ``doing math here``.

__________________________________________________

I am forgetting the name of another great mathemetician who again resolved what was called (I think) Pascals theorem a couple of years ago.The documentary about such ``uncool`` subject that I saw would put the best James Bond thrillers to shame.I was almost sweating near the end.I wish I could remember the name.Maybe soebody reading this could help me here.rjanjua sahib?PLEASE!

I shall try to provide some information in the following to some questions asked and comments made in different feedbacks.

Mr. Afaqui:

I really do not know what information I should provide you about Tesla because I do not know how much you already know about him. You might know more about him than I do. I am a Civil Engineer although I`m not totally green in electrical engineering. Well I`ll take a shot in the dark. Incidentally, my information is based on

www.yale.edu/scimag/Archives/vol71/Tesla.htm.

You yourself can access it and read it. If more information is needed, you may like to read a book about Tesla. Anyhow, I give you some information in the following. The first time I had the opportunity of having any meaningful discussion regarding Tesla was last year with my elder brother who is a Mechanical Engineer. He was very fond of Tesla and talked about his work very enthusiastically. All that I knew about Tesla was that he had invented radio. My discussion with my brother did spark my interest in Tesla but busy as I am, I could not get around to reading any reliable book on Tesla.

Tesla was the genius who literally lit the world. He was born during an electrical storm at the stroke of midnight between July 9 and 10, 1856 in Smilijan, Croatia. He immigrated to the U.S. in 1884 and became a citizen. He received his schooling at the Polytechnic School in Graz. His passion for study was such that reportedly, he read twenty hours a day. And what did he read? Descartes, Goethe, Spencer, Shakespeare, and more of the same. He could speak nine languages. Wow. However, in spite of his long reading hours, he did not graduate from the Austrian Polytechnic School. He then continued his studies at the University of Prague. In 1881, Tesla started working as a Draftsman and a Designer for the Engineering Department at the Central Telegraph Office in Budapest. It was here that he conceived of his rotating magnetic field principle that was to revolutionize the power industry and would make Alternating Current (AC) a viable means of providing electric power. In order to sell his idea to a bigger company, he joined the Continental Edison Company in Paris. In 1884, upon arriving in the U.S., he went directly to Edison and offered him his idea about the AC. Although Edison was not interested in AC because he had heavily invested in the Direct Current (DC) technology, he offered a job to Tesla as an engineer. Edison asked Tesla to redesign DC dynamos and promised him a reward of $50,000 if he could improve the DC technology. Although Tesla knew that DC technology was dead-end and had no potential in the future, he nevertheless produced some twenty four new DC designs. Edison was pleased but he did not honor his promise; Tesla was shortchanged. He left Edison in disgust. Then in 1888, George Westinghouse purchased some of Tesla`s patents for a paltry sum of $60,000 of which only $5,000 was paid in cash; for the balance, he was given 150 shares of stock. Tesla`s fame spread far and wide when Westinghouse won the contract to supply the Chicago World`s Fair of 1893 with electricity. In 1895, the Westinghouse Electric and Manufacturing Company and General Electric Company teamed up to harness the hydro-electric power of Niagara Falls. Tesla also developed the apparatus and circuits used for wireless communication. His experiments with high frequency and high potential alternating currents resulted in the development of the `Tesla Coil`.

Tesla got entangled with Marconi also on the priority claims for the invention of radio. In 1943, his claim was vindicated by the Supreme Court, which granted full rights to him nullifying Marconi`s claim. Marconi however succeeded in beating Tesla as the first person to send a wireless telegraph across the Atlantic, which prompted Tesla to remark, ``Let him continue. He is using seventeen of my patents``. These kinds of disputes are not uncommon in the fields of science and technology. A similar kind of feud, but much more intense and of a much wider involvement, had raged between Newton and Leibinz, for the development of Calculus.

Intercontinental jealousies had also fired the sentiments for unduly elevating Edison over Tesla in the displays at the Smithonsian Institution. This observation was corroborated by a testimony of Senator Carl Levin who remarked, ``..Nikola Tesla has not been granted his proper place in history. In the Smithsonian institution, for example, Mr. Edison`s inventions are justifiably well represented. However, although the Museum has included Mr. Tesla`s alternating current in their exhibit, no mention is made of Mr. Tesla. In fact, the generator is included as part of the Edison exhibit``. Tesla`s inventions are numerous and in areas, such as inter-planetary communication, which are quite original. He had some 700 patents in the U.S. and Europe.Some of his ideas could have become the themes of science fiction.

Tesla did not own a house; he lived in hotels. He died on January 7, 1943, alone, poor, and all but forgotten, in a New York hotel room. He was born into the world during an electrical storm, and left our generation with the scientific legacy of an electrical revolution.

Dear Anarayan:

I do not have any philosophy regarding any connection between a genius and a schizophrenic person. Unfortunately, my oldest son is schizophrenic; I think I know what a terrible disease schizophrenia is. One of the Social Workers, who was helping my son had remarked that the scientists and intellectuals in general, are prone to having this disease. I could not think of any link between the two and I was a bit skeptical about the statement that the Social worker had made and I still am. I think that this disease does not discriminate; it can afflict any body. Then again, no body really knows the causes of this disease accurately or definitively. Therefore I am really not in a position to corroborate or disagree with your theory.

Shatru Sinha and rsridhar:

I first came across Ramanujan`s name around 1969 when I was nearly half way through my Ph. D. work at Imperial College of Science and Technology. I was searching for a reference in a journal of mathematics, and in that paper, I came across Ramanujan`s name. I was truly intrigued and I wanted to know more about him. Eventually I got to Hardy`s book and read all about Ramanujan. Curiously, Jawahar Lal Nehru mentioned Ramanujan in his Discovery of India, not quite disparagingly but not graciously either. He thought Ramanujan was not as great as the British were making him, as if they were somehow using Ramanujan`s name in a `politically correct` manner. Nehru probably could not probably think about Ramanujan in non-political terms.

Ramanujan died young, at the age of 32-33 years. He could not go for a higher degree at home in India because in his Intermediate examination, he failed all the tests excepting mathematics. Therefore his knowledge of even mathematics was not broad based. His special field was theory of numbers in which he excelled. It is believed that he would have been a much greater mathematician had he received formal higher education in mathematics. Yes, he was honored by the Indian government, which issued a commemorative postage stamp in his honor. Yes, he left a notebook behind after his death, which contained many unproven theorems on which many respectable mathematicians worked for a number of years to prove them.

I had mentioned Ramanujan`s name only incidentally; he was not the main character of my essay. My essay was about Nash Jr. who is agreat mathematician in his own right. It is strange that none of the inter-actors even said a word about him.

Thanks every one for your feedback, and regards.

Mohammad Akram Gill

Scout: U aint that bad yourself... One day ima come to NYC with my red turban and embarrass u at work, cool?

Gill Sahib:

Your article is very interesting and timely. It explains a lot to me and I am able to appreciate the ``The beautiful Mind``

Sometimes when I read the comments or replies it seems to me that Chowk is choked by Neanderthals who mostly discuss their personal problems without any relevance to the topic. Their replies or responses are full of personal prejudices and they let it all hang out.

Good luck to you and keep on writing.

cutie pie #17, ``Dont invite people to a dirty house (clean it first).``

you`re smarter than i thought you were.

Hamzad: I u dont like it then why do it? Im not picking on u alone, theres many who do that. Look, if i wanted to read something from CNN i would go to their site. What is the purpose in providing Islamic centered news? I think most people know what Islam is about. If ur trying to initiate conversions or trying to educate the kaffir, Ill tell u the same thing I told an Imam ``Dont invite people to a dirty house (clean it first).

peace to Allah.

GENIOUS IS MAD

The normative idea of sanity is derived from an average persons behaviour, essentially that of a mediocre person. Genious obviously has to deviate from the average to become genious, so is the mad.

The average banal person can notive only the deviation from the norm, he may call it mad, he may call it genious, what is the difference.

The important aspect is both , the mad and genious are non average, as such they may be termed mad or genious.

DRUMZ---12.

No it would not,and that is not the effort & intent either.I value your input,incisive & forthright that it is,but I would request you to bear with me & scroll past.Soon it may not be needed.I do not like it myself.

Tesla has always fascinated me.The ``terrorism`` by Edison has truly not been reported(been done just enough to lay claim to ``objectivity``)and the Canadians are so awash in an inferiority complex that they are proud to have two masters to serve(Brits & Yanks)

Gill Sahab,

IMHO, there is no DIRECT connection between genius and madness. There might be an INDIRECT connection though.

What is genius? Were Einstein and Russell geniuses? If so why were their personal lives so screwed up? So perhaps what we call genius is the ability to super-excel in one or two spheres only - not a wholistic kind of intelligence that is manifest in every area of one`s life.

This `narrow` genius comes naturally to people who can hold in their heads a single concept or idea for a very long time. This means that their brains naturally exclude all other thoughts easily. The key word being NATURALLY...not by FORCE or WILLPOWER.

Combine the above with a good sized ego and the normal thoughts everyone has about enemies...and you have a recipe for eventual disaster.

All the intelligent `kooks` I met so far had super-sized egos. Not one of them could be called humble by any means.

Err...the above is only my HUMBLE opinion!

regards,

GSCheema,

``Pakistan has Gills?``

Must be true. Last week CNN said Pakistan was upto its gills in debt!

regards,

Hamzad: Do u think Islam will parrish without ur contributions? As u can see, I dislike everyones cut and pastes (if one cannot say it himself, it aint worth saying).

The tesla question was GOOD. Someone look into that and how biz/govts have interests in keeping technology limited. He could make energy so easily that they stopped him from doing it. Reminds me of goodyear which prevented efficient train tracks to be built all around the us (there`s a reason why things just stay the same) not good for tires. There was just a study describing why WEED is outlawed (more efficient then oil).

PS: Anyone know about schizo... Q: If he`s imagining things, the answers/ideas must be a result of what he already knows right? (Please dont mention the `S` word (subcon...)

Rdesikan---10

Thanks for the ``guidance``,but you see there are a lot of non-muslims on this board.Nothing is done here without purpose.

There is an angle to everything!One needs to be multifaceted & well-heeled to appreciate the fine things in life.

Nothing funny here my man!---When I write humour others understand & always convey their appreciation.

Re Hamzad

``If muslims spend half the time talking & doing science than reminding each other of their past accomplishments,I am sure an encore would be around the bend.``

Funny you should bring this up. Hopefully you will soon try following your own advice and spare us of your various digital excretions about the various achievements of the islamic world.

It is a lot easier to ram an airplane into a building than it is to design and build one.

re:Reply #: 6

Shatru Sinha,

I read a biography on Ramanujam (note the spelling) and there is nothing to suggest that he was a schizophrenic. Why does he have to be one? He indeed suffered from Pulmonary T.B during his last year or so and was frantically trying to finish his work and hastily scribbling his findings on a notebook. This notebook was lost and subsequently found in a Madras Library (hence called the ``lost notebook``). This last year`s work is an area of research among mathematicians in US and Europe.

Sridhar

Thank you Mr.Gill for bringing to our attention a subject which at least I would not have been able to come to know otherwise.

This is the kind of stuff we need more often on CHOWK.I have no use for the usual Indo-Pak sparring where predjudices are flaunted as scholarship & knowledge.

Being in the profession you mention you are in,could you enlighten us about Tesla?

If muslims spend half the time talking & doing science than reminding each other of their past accomplishments,I am sure an encore would be around the bend.

``Great wits are sure to madness near allied,

And thin partitions do their bounds divide``

Mohommed Gill

Is there any evidence that Ramanujen himself ,was ALSO schizophrenic?

I have read some bio graphy of Ramanujen,& Indian govt.Did honour by releasing a limited edition Postal Stamp in his honour in 1960 which is collectors item for a past philatelist like me .

Ramanujen died very young upon return from England.He was ravished by malnutrition (resulting in oppertunistic T.b.)because of his understandably strict vegeterian dietery adherence.In U.K. total inability of maintaining adequate nutritional need of any human.Given British diet taboo and absolutely brutal to non meat eater.

Unfortunately ,Ramanujen,didnt live long enough ,who knows may be for better to avoid being vegetative by crippling severe schizophrenia himself.

``Great wits are sure to madness near allied,

And thin partitions do their bounds divide``

Mohommed Gill

Is there any evidence that Ramanujen himself ,was ALSO schizophrenic?

I have read some bio graphy of Ramanujen,& Indian govt.Did honour by releasing a limited edition Postal Stamp in his honour in 1960 which is collectors item for a past philatelist like me .

Ramanujen died very young upon return from England.He was ravished by malnutrition (resulting in oppertunistic T.b.)because of his understandably strict vegeterian dietery adherence.In U.K. total inability of maintaining adequate nutritional need of any human.Given British diet taboo and absolutely brutal to non meat eater.

Unfortunately ,Ramanujen,didnt live long enough ,who knows may be for better to avoid being vegetative by crippling severe schizophrenia himself.

Absorbing article! Thanks!

Oh boy! I didn`t know that even ``Gill`` was a Muslim surname! Wait till I tell Glenn Turner about this . . .

Reply # 1 GSCheema

[``It is painful to see this word Muhammad with Gill and without any Singh.``]

GSCheema, like most of us Pakistanis, Muhammad is confused about his identity (see Anwar Iqbal`s article) and has forgotten his Punjabi heritage and ancestoral religion. Please forgive him.

Muhammad Gill, apna naaN badal yaar, veekh te sahi, sardar ji di dhui vich mirch lagaN-dai ay.

One of my heroes...it is good to see the wider Chowk community being introduced to him.

Pakistan has Gills? I thought all of them came to our side! So sad. It is painful to see this word Muhammad with Gill and without any Singh.

Article of course is good and written in a style which is becoming of Gills only. Good Job!