The Future Is Another Country: 2050 And Beyond

Bengali # 90

That wasn`t a slip of tongue. I have a personal agenda wrt Kashmir and I think I have been quite candid about it since I have elaborated it on 10s of boards so far. I personally dont care whether India keeps Kashmir to itself or not. I only beleive in what the people of the land have to say about their destiny. The most basic items in my agenda are:

1. India must stop extra judicial murder of Kashmiris right away, under any pretext, terrorists or not.

2. India must immediately stop destroying Kashmiri property by burning and through buldozers and burning under any pretext.

3. India must unilaterally declare full amnesty to all militants with absolutely no string attached. That will help separate the alleged Paksitani intruders.

4. India must unequivocally apologize to all Kashmiris and especially Kashmiri women who were muredered brutallized and raped by Indian Army.

5. India must give a 10 year specail economic package to Kashmiris to help rebuild their country.

6. India must stop interferring with state elections right away.

7. India must destroy all torture cells that its army has set up.

8. A judicial commission headed by supreme court judges should monitor the law enforcement agencies. And this commission must have teeth.

9. All prisnors of conscience who are being held in illegal torture cells and dungeons must be released right away.

10. The draconian and murderous laws such as Disturbed Area Act of 1990 which has resulted in 80,000 deaths and countless rapes by Indian army must be abolished.

11. All citizenship rights of all the people in occupied territory, regardless of their religion, must be restored.

12. International as well as INdian Human Rights organizations must have unfettered access to all parts of Kashmir.

13. International news media must have unfetterd access to all parts of Kashmir.

14. India must aprise International human rights orgs to the condition (legal and physical) of all those detainees who are aprehended everyday and brought before media where they ``confess`` that they were foreign or kashmiri terrorists. Their cases must be handled in open courts.

Bengali! These are all the activities that any secular, decent and democratic polity in the world is expected to deliver to its people. It is not a Paksitani agenda, it is not an Islamic agenda, it is not a agenda to destroy India; it is a human agenda. It is an agenda to restore the integrity of India and not to disintegrate it. It all finally comes down to delivering people the dignity that they deserve. Anyone who opposes this agenda is anti-India, anti-hindu, and he is anti-human. And he must be treated with full contempt.

Re: Romair to Jay

``? It (Pakistan) was actually created because Jinnah felt that someday India would slowly be dominated by people with Jay`s views about Muslims and their desires. But it is obvious that such views exist, and are on Chowk for everyone to see?``

AND Arjun_M:

``? the ultra tolerant secular residents of usedcondimistan?``

These comments (by Jay and Arjun-M) are hurtful and exist, in part, because of the underlying tensions between India/Pakistan. The tension creates conditions for demonizing of the other side to occur. I am not sure that these will completely disappear if the tensions were to subside, but they will be greatly weakened and discredited (There are still Communists in the world and even control W. Bengal, but nobody fears them taking over Wall Street or Dalal Street tomorrow). They will dance to a different tune when they see defeat staring at them. Ditto for the Urstrulys and Ali1s. This is one of the reasons that I cited to build support for the idea of a grand bargain between India and Pakistan. However, there are many on both sides that will continue to detract us from the cause and do nothing constructive towards attaining it.

Re: Sudhakar_Barua

``? I doubt how Arm chair activism is going to change the future of the two countries, when the ground realities are totally different with kashmiris, soldiers and common people dying daily on both sides?``

Arm chair activism alone will never be enough, but one must first incubate new ideas - and arm-chair activism is great for that. I would never have even reached this state without understanding the Pakistani mindset over the Web. You are right, however, that the ground realities are so divergent from what we may desire. They, too, also give us a preview of even worse to come. So, we should learn from them while we can.

Re: Veeresh

``? ``buy soap from Indo Pak Lever``?``

Heck - we are way ahead of the Israelis/Palestinians - we can propound such ideas and not be labeled outrightly foolish - nobody can do that in Israel/West Bank and get away with it.

Re: Dost-Mittar

`` It`s hard to disagree with the Pakistani official spokesman`s following statement in today`s Dawn``

Yes. But it was also encouraging to read Vajpayee say that there will be no war between India and Pakistan. I would like to hope that we have gone to the abyss and decided to walk back.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re: Urstruly #119

Good - India can do that -- none of what you suggest threatens the sovereignty of India. But, to be true -- what you suggest still falls short of the UN Resolutions. And unless that issue is addressed between India/Pakistan, there will remain misgivings within Pakistan (and perhaps Kashmir), and continue to be a blot on India`s reputation. But addressing them causes heartburn in India -- so why not go a step further than what you suggest, and let India and Pakistan strike a grand bargain along the lines that I have suggested that preserves the `honor` of both sides?

And while you are in such a good mood, would you do Sigalph a favor and not address him using an ethnic epithet? I know that Punjabis LOVE to reduce complex notions to pithy maxims, but sometimes they detract from your message.

Is Mushy the dictator in control. The answer is a resounding NO. The dastardly kidnap of Pearl is a testament to this. Indeed this man the the first who said that Mushy`s speech is all hogwash. The man is not in control of Pakistan. Whatever the pakistanis believe. They are living in cloud cyuckoo land (that includes you Urstruly - pakistan has missed the opportunity to cleanse itself of the rabid candcer that is the mullahs and fraudery and quackery, and what not.

The pakis true to their origins do not have the guts to fight face to face. They rely on stabbing in the back. Nothing new. History is replete with the infamy of these half-arabs.

Check this out.......

Specifically, he wanted to find out about the Bahawalpur connection for himself.

Bahawalpur, for the benefit of those who do not know, was the capital of a princely state in British India, noted chiefly for the eccentricity of some of its nawabs. It lies south of Multan, strategically located at a point close to the Indian states of Punjab and Rajasthan. More to the point, it is also, as Pearl found out, the operational headquarters of the Jaish-e-Mohammed.

On January 1, 2002, a story filed by Pearl from Bahawalpur featured prominently on the front page of the Asian edition of The Wall Street Journal. The headline summed it up: `Militant Groups in Pakistan Thrive Despite Crackdown`. The sub-head read: `Jaish-e-Mohammed Says It Is Still Operating After Police Detained Some Staff`.

The report proceeded to make several highly damaging accusations about the Pakistani government`s efforts to rein in terrorism. Jaish-e-Mohammed representatives said the police ``left behind enough people to keep the office running``. When Pearl visited Bahawalpur, a ``nearby Jaish-e-Mohammad regional center was still operating Thursday, its traditional recruiting day. The group`s name has been painted over, but posters praising holy war are still hung inside. And a bank account that Jaish-e-Mohammad uses to solicit contributions remains open, despite a November order by Pakistan`s central bank freezing the group`s account.``

Ordinarily, one might have dismissed this as nothing more than the standard Indian foreign office press release. But this is something more -- an independent report by a correspondent belonging to one of the most respected media groups in the United States. Having learned what was going on in Bahawalpur so openly, it was on the cards that Daniel Pearl would try to dig a little deeper. And this possibility posed a problem for several people...

Some days ago, Pearl was seized by person or persons unknown. The kidnapping has been attributed to terrorists. An anonymous message sent to the police and the media in Pakistan accuses the journalist of being a CIA agent and promises to mete out the same ``inhumane`` treatment to him as to the Al Qaeda prisoners being held by the United States. Is there more to the story of this supposed kidnapping than meets the eye?

I was in Washington shortly after Pearl`s story came out and can personally testify to the embarrassment and rage it caused to the Pakistani representatives (as well as to those Americans in high places who continue to turn a blind eye to militant activities in Pakistan). But the Musharraf government certainly could not afford to detain or expel an American journalist, least of all one representing a journal as influential as The Wall Street Journal.

I am sure General Musharraf himself would never do something as silly as arrange for Pearl`s convenient disappearance. But is he completely in charge of the situation? In his speech on January 12, the Pakistani leader regretfully admitted that the authority of the State had deteriorated. A section of Indian intelligence suspects that the hapless journalist has been spirited away by the Inter-Services Intelligence; others believe that it is actually terrorists who carried out the operation. Whichever it is, it underlines a couple of facts.

First, the fact that an American journalist of some repute can suddenly go missing in Pakistan is a reminder of the professional hazards of journalism in that country. Second, it questions the assumption that General Musharraf is in complete charge of his nation.

Some of my friends have wondered why the Western media has handled India so much more roughly than they do Pakistan. This has often been put down to the traditional leftist bias of the media reacting to the fact that a Bharatiya Janata Party-led government rules India today. Others say it is an implicit racism reacting to a new assertiveness in India`s conduct of her affairs. I mean no disrespect to my foreign colleagues, but could there be a third reason, namely fear?

Journalists can write anything they choose about India without fear of retribution. (And many do just that!) But, as the case of the unhappy Daniel Pearl dramatically demonstrates, honest reporting on Pakistan can be a dangerous affair. Irrespective of whether the Inter-Services Intelligence or terrorists are at fault, Mr Pearl has been silenced quite effectively, has he not?

Sudhakar #113 ``I get amused at the antics of the Chowkwallahs! On one hand are the arm-chair peace activists who are all out to hug & kiss those across the border living happily ever-after! And on the other hand we have the venom-spitting hawks who are out to nuke-out the subcontinent``

Please dont confuse us with reality. And many of us have our armchairs half way across the world.

:-)

More seriously, I think the internet is POTENTIALLY a useful tool for building understanding (and certainly better than the miserable job the two governments have been doing in resolving their problems). Of course, the interactors are insignificant in number to make any difference one way or another. So, your point is well taken, and something to keep in mind when some of us start taking these interactions too seriously.

I dont like to cutandpaste lengthy articles, but this one deserves attention. It is time the Pakistan government stopped allowing itself to be bullied by the mullahs, and caught and punished these people rather than the innocent people who are languishing in jail because of them.

From the death cell

By Ardeshir Cowasjee

October 12, 2001, from the death cell, Circle 3, Central Jail, Rawalpindi: ``I am a victim of Section 295-C of the Pakistan Penal Code abuse. There was no definite evidence against me, still there was much religious pressure and so the mullaism and the abuse of religion got me here. I hope American war against religious terrorism will also affect the religious terrorism of codified law in Pakistan as well as its abuse in the administration of justice.``

So wrote Dr Muhammad Yunus Shaikh, son of Sardar Muhammad. The letter, addressed to me, arrived via a circuitous route during the second week of January 2002. I had of course read much about the man and his misery, and wrote back asking if there was anything I could do to help. The letter was sent by courier and he replied on January 16 : ``I had a lot of trouble finding a lawyer at the time of my case proceedings and finally Mian Hussain Chotya of Lahore agreed to take my case. But he worked through religious harassment and a fatwa was issued against him. However, he lodged my petition in the Lahore High Court, at the Rawalpindi [Bench], and now Mr Abid Hassan Manto has very kindly offered his services.``

Mr Manto must be given due credit for having agreed to help a human being in distress.

Younus Shaikh was born in 1955 in Bahawalnagar. His father, a merchant, is a Hafiz-i-Quran. Shaikh studied medicine in Pakistan and in Ireland, and at the time of his arrest he was working part time at a small clinic in Rawalpindi and teaching at the Capital Homeopathic Medical College in Islamabad.

In 1992, Dr Shaikh founded The Enlightenment, an organization committed to rationalist and democratic principles which stands for separation of state and religion. In public meetings and newspaper articles, Dr. Shaikh raised questions about women`s rights and about religion and intolerance. He also founded and led the South Asian Fraternity, which aims at promoting understanding, goodwill and harmony, religious tolerance, interaction, and people-to-people contact amongst the countries of South Asia.

A free thinker, and a dangerously free speaker, the most important books in Yunus Shaikh`s life have been the Quran, the Encyclopaedia Britannica and Will and Ariel Durant`s `The Story of Civilization`.

In October 2000, he was accused of having made derogatory remarks during one of his lectures on 7th century Arabia and its practices and a group of students who apparently found what he had to say offensive, though historically correct, informed a group of powerful Islamabad mullas who filed a criminal complaint against him under Section 295-C of the PPC.

He was sentenced to death for blasphemy by the Islamabad additional district and sessions court in August 2001 and given one week to appeal to the Lahore High Court, which appeal was admitted but has yet to be heard. During the court hearings, the courtroom was packed by our so-called religious zealots, a menacing bunch, and though a group of mullas from Bahawalnagar testified that Shaikh had committed no blasphemy, the powerful Islamabad mullas won the day.

When General Pervez Musharraf assumed power in November 1999, he declared he would bring democracy, which encompasses religious tolerance, to Pakistan and that he was committed to the principles of Pakistan`s founder, Mohammad Ali Jinnah. Ironically, it was under Musharraf`s government that Shaikh has been sentenced to death and has so far spent a year and three months in jail. Early in 2001, Musharraf made an attempt to liberalize the Blasphemy Law, but backed down under pressure from the religious right.

Section 295-C of the PPC was introduced by an obsequious general of the Pakistan army who bowed and scraped his way to the top and was rewarded with the post of chief of army staff by a smug Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. When he threw Bhutto out and took over the country General Zia-ul-Haq, as is the wont of his kind, used religion as a prop, abused it to the hilt and after being removed from this mortal scene by a plane explosion in mid-air has left behind a legacy which still haunts and hurts this country.

Section 295-C of the Blasphemy Law provides that whoever by words or visual representation or by any imputation, innuendo or insinuation, directly or indirectly defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) shall be punished with death or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine.

One of our finer chief justices of Sindh, Mamoon Kazi, wrote a column in this newspaper on July 18, 2000, headed `Where procedure could have made a difference`. He told us that no special procedure is provided by the Criminal Procedure Code for the prosecution of the offender and that on the receipt of information relating to the commission of an alleged offence of blasphemy, the officer in charge of a police station may arrest an alleged offender without a warrant. This provision is in no way Islamic but is incorporated in the chapter relating to offences against religion and applies equally to Muslims and non-Muslims.

The good judge confirms that, as is widely known, Section 295-C is commonly abused and used for personal gain and that many people in Pakistan willingly give false evidence under oath either for money or under pressure from interested quarters. When a report is registered by the police, both police and courts are pressured by our religious bigots and the inadequacy of evidence notwithstanding, the accused are generally convicted as the judges trying the cases are naturally more worried about their own safety than about rendering justice. Both Muslims and non-Muslims suffer equally from the abuse and misuse of this iniquitous law.

It is essential that procedural changes be made in the law so that it is less prone to be used by vicious people seeking revenge or reward - but, of course, ideally this section should be struck down from the Code. Now that President Musharraf has come to grips with the fundamentalists and religiosos, he may perhaps move again on the matter.

Over the years, bigots have engineered and ensured that under this same law some 204 members of the Ahmadi community were confined to jails. Cases against 161 have been discharged. The remaining 43 are out on bail presenting themselves in court as and when summoned, which summons are issued more or less once a month. When they appear in court they are told by the presiding officer that their case has been postponed. And so it goes, on and on. In most cases, the presiding officer is terrorized by the presence of a bunch of militant mullas.

Now, after a long time we have a bright and shining unrecycled first law officer of the land representing the people. Young Barrister Makhdoom Ali Khan, my lawyer, is a man of substance who ate his dinners at the same Inn of Law, the Inner Temple, as did my father over 80 years ago. As attorney-general of Pakistan he has enormous powers to do good. Let him find out how many of our citizens there are confined to our jails around the country for allegedly having committed blasphemy under Section 295-C and propose some procedural change and have these men released from jail and the false charges against them dropped. It is inconceivable that any sane man, knowing the laws, would ever contemplate blasphemy.

We are tired of reading each day about threats of war emanating from India and of the statements made by Musharraf about how competent and well armed he and his army are to fight a war. We remain assured that we are ready and able to fight back if attacked and defend ourselves by any and all means at our disposal. We are, of course, aware that all is fair in love and in war. We can assure the president that conditions in our death cells, or for that matter in any cell of our jails, are worse than those prevailing in Guantanamo Bay. Whereas he can do nothing for the men in Guantanamo, by one stroke of his pen he can relieve the suffering of the citizens of his own being held in his own jails.

Sadna

The closest translation to the word kanjar (punjabi word) in a language that you understand is ``Nautanki`` or ``Bhaand`` or ``Miraasi``. I could have translated it in English as well, but for some strange reason when same words are spoken in english they seem to carry more weight and less hostitility. So one wouldn`t mind much (I think) if he is called an ``idiot`` but the same person will take serious offence if called a ``chootyia``. Similarly, a person would prefer to say ``I was conned into....(something)`` rather than ``mujhe phudoo laga diya gaya``

People love your language.

DRUMZ #117
``the one where all indians/pakis feel compelled to defend thier own countries like they work in the damn government``

DRUMZ, chowk has posted an article by an Indian about things Indian and the author is certainly not `defending` her country or its government, quite to the contrary. In response to this article, there is the whole spectrum of Indian opinion on this board, from agreement to disagreement on the issues. If Indians donot talk about these things, who else will?

btw, there is a lot of ignorance among Indians and Pakistanis about each others countries, there has been a sort of barbed-wire curtain between the two countries. For instance I still donot know what kanjar means. Perhaps we will learn some salient facts like these through these meaningful exchanges..

---

soysauce #116
``Apparently, they have to play it backwards first to make sure there`s no secret codes to any ``sleepers`` embedded in them.``

But I thought..? OK mums the word :)

`` I think they keep you here so your detractors (most pakis) will stay around..``

Perhaps you are right. Another indirect benefit to Pakis from their jihad policy.

Urstruly #126
Thanks. I learn a lot about people from the names they choose to call.

Shammi

I hardly mention UN resolutions in my posts. I hardly do. That`s politician`s job. What I have in front of me is a human issue. Whether Pakistan is behind the fight for freedom in Kashmir or not or whether the freedom struggle there is indigenuous or not-India must deliver its end of the bargain as a polity-technically and philosophically to prevent to negate itself as a polity.

Bengali does not mind me calling Bengali. After all 100s of millions of Bengalis died for the right to be called Bengali. Even their country`s name is Bangladesh. If Hindu living in Hindustan mind being called Hindus it does not necessarily mean that Bangladeshi mind being called bengalis as well. I have deep respect for Bengalis, their freedom struggle has inspired so many souls including mine, in the region; it is fascinating.

Arjun_m

or else you are not a democracy nor a secular polity, just a bunch of inhuman scavangers who just happen to capture a large territory. All these actions are necessary to be included in the human race or else

People like Tunku Varqadarajan can now eat their own sour cud.



NEWS ANALYSIS

Asia`s New Hotbed of Moderation

Politics: Pakistan`s shift away from extremist Islamic groups will have effects far beyond its borders, many say.



Times Headlines





By TYLER MARSHALL, TIMES STAFF WRITER

LAHORE, Pakistan -- President Pervez Musharraf`s decision to reshape Pakistan as a moderate Islamic state carries implications that extend far beyond its borders, many people in this region believe.

Among other things, they argue, Pakistan`s new moderate course will:

* Undercut extremist groups from throughout the Arab and broader Muslim world that have used Pakistan as both an important support base and a way station in the conduct of global terrorism. * Ease long-standing tensions in Central and Southwest Asia that in many instances date back to the end of the Cold War.

* Give hope to political moderates in other Muslim countries as they watch one of their own reset the course of a nation by means of a carefully argued case against militant Islam as a social ill.

For Pakistan itself, Musharraf`s plan--outlined in an address to the nation this month--signals an end to a quarter-century in which political power has flowed gradually yet steadily in the direction of conservative religious forces, turning the country into a haven for extremists.

Police Hold 2,500 With Alleged Ties to Militants

In the last two weeks, police have rounded up 2,500 people suspected of links to five banned militant Islamic groups. Although smaller sweeps have occurred before, only to be followed by the release of the detainees a few days later, the extent of the current operation and assurances from the government that many of those taken into custody will be prosecuted under Pakistan`s anti-terrorism law have lifted the crackdown to another level, observers believe.

After two weeks of relative calm, those affected by the crackdown have begun to react. On Sunday, about 2,000 religious conservatives staged a demonstration in Peshawar, near the border with Afghanistan, demanding an end to Musharraf`s new path. In Karachi, a group called Harkat Moujahedeen is believed to be responsible for the kidnapping Wednesday of 38-year-old Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl.

Although some moderates worry about a greater backlash and about Musharraf`s resolve to follow through on his plan, they still view the fast-unfolding events as a watershed.

``It`s the first time in the history of our country that these people are being pushed into retreat,`` said Kamila Hyat, joint director of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. ``It`s going to change the way we live and think.``

Because Musharraf`s speech was timed mainly to defuse the immediate threat of war with India--by signaling to New Delhi that he was prepared to crack down on terrorist groups launching attacks against India from Pakistani soil--some listeners questioned both the sincerity of Pakistani intentions and the breadth of the initiative.

However, reflections of the shift--including announced reforms of hard-line religious schools known as madrasas, a noticeable easing of long-standing constraints on intellectual debate, and apparently broad-based public support--have combined to convince many observers that it is not only real but highly significant.

One example: Najam Sethi, editor of the country`s most liberal weekly newspaper, the Friday Times, said in an interview that he is suddenly receiving invitations to address groups that once banned him as too provocative.

``It`s amazing how expression has been freed,`` said Khaled Ahmed, a columnist who serves as the paper`s most aggressive public voice. ``One speech, and the entire nation has turned moderate.``

One Pakistan-based Western diplomat who tracks political developments in the region is convinced that the U-turn is genuine.

``We`re watching the world`s second-largest Muslim country moving from extremism to moderation,`` he said. ``This is hugely important.``

Others seem to agree.

``Historic,`` said Secretary of State Colin L. Powell of Musharraf`s speech and the course it charted. During a stopover this month in the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-S.D.) called it ``one of the most powerful, meaningful . . . consequential speeches we`ve heard from a leader in this region for a long, long time.``

The enthusiasm is understandable.

For the last 25 years, Pakistan has hosted an array of Islamic militant organizations drawn first by the Muslim world`s jihad against the 1979-89 Soviet occupation of neighboring Afghanistan and later by other causes, including resistance to Russian forces in the breakaway region of Chechnya, to ruling Arab elites in Algeria and Egypt, and to post-Soviet governments in Central Asia.

Pakistan was also the preferred transit route into Afghanistan for members of Osama bin Laden`s Al Qaeda terrorist organization. Many observers are convinced that without Pakistan`s kid-glove approach toward extremist groups, the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks against the United States would have been far more difficult to carry out.

``For militants from all over the Arab world . . . Pakistan has been crucial,`` said Rasul Bakhsh Rais, director of the Area Studies Center at Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad. ``Here was a large political and social space to organize, plan, strategize, regroup or seek shelter. Now this space is no longer available.``

Friday Times columnist Ahmed claimed that the brother of one of the assassins of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat used to taunt Sadat`s successor, Hosni Mubarak, from his haven in Peshawar by sending Mubarak threatening telex messages.

More recently, Arab recruits have been seen moving through the cities of Lahore, on the Indian border, and Karachi, on the Indian Ocean, apparently to terrorist training camps in the remote frontier areas of Afghanistan and eventual missions beyond. About 25 Arabs were spotted recently by one observer in the anteroom of the Lashkar-e-Taiba extremist group`s office in Lahore.

Lashkar-e-Taiba has been linked to several terrorist operations in Indian-controlled areas of the disputed Himalayan region of Kashmir and to a deadly attack on the historic Red Fort in New Delhi in late 2000.

Extremist Groups Had Government Allies

Evidence, mainly anecdotal, indicates that these extremist groups often operated with the protection and tolerance--and sometimes with the full cooperation--of the Pakistani government. One political insider in Islamabad recalled an incident in early 2000 when senior members of Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, sat around a table plotting strategy at the Islamabad Hotel with the head of the extremist Hezb-ul-Moujahedeen, Syed Salahuddin, at the same moment that Foreign Minister Abdus Sattar was telling a news conference a few miles away that his country had no ties with terrorist groups.

The government offered such support because many of its conservative leaders saw these groups as sharing Pakistan`s national goals--such as maintaining strong ties with Afghanistan to the west and breaking India`s grip on much of Kashmir.

``Most jihadis are natural allies of the army,`` said former ISI Director Hamid Gul, widely considered the midwife of Afghanistan`s Taliban regime. ``They are pursuing the same objectives.``

But on Jan. 12, Musharraf rejected the extremist option and declared these groups de facto enemies of the state.

The crackdown on militant groups is expected to further calm tensions in parts of Central Asia already quieted by the Taliban`s demise. Nations headed by former Soviet-era leaders had come to view Pakistan as a troublesome accomplice to the Taliban and a supporter of extremist groups.

Uzbekistan, for example, claimed that an Islamic militant named Juma Namangani had used Karachi as his starting point and the Afghan border areas as his launch pad for a guerrilla campaign against the Uzbek government.

``Musharraf`s new direction will provide a better understanding for Pakistan`s relations with these countries,`` Rais said.

The impact of Pakistan`s shift on the larger struggle between advocates of moderate and extremist Islam is far harder to assess, Pakistani observers believe. Newspaper editor Sethi believes that the collapse of the Taliban and the rout of Al Qaeda have already triggered a reassessment in the Muslim world about the limits of hard-line Islam.

``People all over the Arab world who were drifting to the extreme are now coming back toward the center,`` he said. ``Musharraf has demonstrated a state can do this too.``

Others, however, note that cultural, linguistic and historical differences are likely to diminish the impact of Musharraf`s move in the Arab world.

Javed Iqbal Cheema, head of the Interior Ministry`s National Crisis Management Cell, which is coordinating Islamabad`s crackdown against extremists, agreed that Pakistan`s new course will affect Arab governments` thinking. But Cheema quickly echoed the sentiment of many moderates here: The international community, he said, must work to resolve disputes in the Middle East and Kashmir that feed extremist sentiments.

Cheema added that Musharraf`s new policy was timed not just to defuse the threat of war over Kashmir but also to crush extremists while they were still reeling from the defeat of their cause in Afghanistan.

``They are confused, in a state of shock,`` he said. ``Now is our chance.``

Deeper change in Pakistani society--erasing a generation`s worth of conservative religious influence in areas such as the judiciary, education, civil service and the military--could take decades, observers believe.

``There will be dogged resistance,`` Sethi predicted.

The extent of conservative Islam`s inroads in Pakistan was illustrated several years ago when Bashiruddin Mehmood, then a respected member of the nation`s Atomic Energy Commission, delivered a scientific paper at a seminar proposing that the country`s energy problems could be resolved by harnessing the power of Muslim supernatural beings known as jinn. Mehmood was arrested in October in connection with unspecified activities in Afghanistan, though he was later released.

Broadening both public education and the narrow Koranic focus of the madrasas is seen by many as the key to long-term change.

``Education is crucial,`` noted Anis Ahmad, a scholar at the International Islamic University in Islamabad. ``It`s values that change a society, not a police crackdown.``

If you want other stories on this topic, search the Archives at latimes.com/archives. For information about reprinting this article, go to www.lats.com/rights.

nameless

I didn`t read what you have posted because I try not to read cutnpaste to save time. But yesterday I heard on NPR (national Public Radio) that the e-mail sent by the kidnappers of the Pearl guy identified themselves as the members of the group called ``Movement for the restoration of Sovereignity of Paksitan MRSP``.

I think the incubator for future Osamas, that is, a deadlier strain is already in works. So much for the friggin` war on terrorism oops I mean ``Operation`` Enduring Freedom.

nameless #125
Thats from
http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/jan/29flip.htm

``Mr Pearl has been silenced quite effectively, has he not? ``

So has TIME`s Ghulam Husnain who was reportedly taken away for two days by `special forces` in Karachi and willnot say what happened.

Dost Mitter

No, now the Kunjars are called Artists and Fankar in Paksitan, and they are duly respected and loved like India. It is only the traditionalists like me and old timers like hamzad.....who are keeping the tradition.

In Paksitan now we use word Kanjar to describe and address politicians and very soon also the military dictators. Both have all the necessary ingrediants of being bonafide kanjars-they even have their slap-sticks (Chittars) but unlike actual kanjars they dont hit those on each others hands they hit those chittars on our (populations) sorry behinds.

And the time I wrote the post with sayeen I was in Multan state of mind, ik multanani yaad aa gayee si.

Romair # 88

I concur with your views on Gandhi. There are two perspectives to look at Gandhi-one through the perspective of a Muslim and Paksitani and the other perspective is that of looking at him as a Hindu. If you take the second perspective it is hard not to give him the due respect. And I might add that Gandhi is a great role modle for Muslim/Pakistani leadership also if seen objectively.