The Future Is Another Country: 2050 And Beyond

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Nameless Idiot: ``Is Mushy the dictator in control. The answer is a resounding NO. The dastardly kidnap of Pearl is a testament to this. Indeed this man the the first who said that Mushy`s speech is all hogwash. The man is not in control of Pakistan. Whatever the pakistanis believe. ``

Me: I guess no ones in control anywhere then. Not in India (attack on red fort, nagas,parliament, army committing crimes against the people etc, etc, etc, etc etc). Is the ruling BJP really in control ? What about Vajpayee ? I don`t think so.

What about Palestine and Israel, all these people dying. Is someone in control ? What about good ol USA where you have crime too... Who the hell is in control ? How can crime happen if someone is in control ?

Now if you are saying that Mushy is behind the kidnapping... he must be really stupid or you must be really stupid, (with the info I have currently, I`ll opt for the latter) and we can talk about that. But if you are saying that Mushy is not in control of every bird that takes a crap in Pakistan or aware of the actions of every militant or militant sympathizer- I believe you.

Think.

Romair 107

``It was actually created because Jinnah felt that someday India would slowly be dominated by people with Jay`s views about Muslims and their desires. One can agree with such views or disagree with them. But it is obvious that such views exist, and are on Chowk for everyone to see.``

That statement is the proof of failure if jinnah. What has jinnah delivered. More muslims have been killed by fellow muslims in pakistan than in india. More ahmadia temples have been destroyed in pakistan than muslim ones in india. More feloow pakistanis are in jail due to blasphemy than any in india. Honour killing has been legitimised in pakistan. Pakistan is on an economic decline, more of income disparity, less education, hish infant mortality, all of it in fifty years, while the indians are stll waiting for the jays to take over the country and eliminate the muslims like the hindus of pakistan.

There is only one way forfard for pakistan, repudiate TNT and denonce every one associated with it. There is no moderate islamic state, and if pakistan is an islamic state it will slowly and steadily become a talibanic country.

About your question about UP. Well UP and Bihar I have heard as the states that one everflies on the way to Hongkong or europe. At one time there was a plan by the british to use Bihar as an alternate site to maralinga in australia. Tragedy that it did not eventuate.

Ref Romair #: 107

[Jay,

One thing I do understand is that the more I read your replies, the more my admiration for Jinnah`s foresight continues to grow. All the Indians who continue to try to understand why Pakistanis wanted a separate country, need to read Jay`s various replies, for their answer. Pakistan needed to be, and was, created not due to any two-nation theory or a simple desire of one religious group to separate from another. It was actually created because Jinnah felt that someday India would slowly be dominated by people with Jay`s views about Muslims and their desires. One can agree with such views or disagree with them. But it is obvious that such views exist, and are on Chowk for everyone to see.]

Jay slipped in a little autobiographical note quite some time back. He is a brahmin from Kerala married to a Christian woman. He has a Muslim classmate from his childhood days that he still keeps in touch with and visits with when he goes to India.

Obviously Jay doesn`t have anything against non-Hindus. He might have something against Pakistanis... if you choose to translate that as anti-Muslim, that is your inability to discern the facts.

Jay cannot see why people of various religious beliefs cannot live in amity as they do in Kerala or in large parts of India. He cannot reconcile the Two-Nation Theory with all the brotherly love and the sudden desire for peace in the subcontinent (provided we hand over Kashmir to you) that you have all started professing after India massed its troops on your border. He still cannot understand the need for Pakistan. However, let me slip in a little explanation for him: Pakistan is the ultimate segregation of the misogynists of South Asia. Some of us are actually thankful that Pakistan was created so that all those of a like mind can congregate in their own country. We would only want not to have to deal with your crazed folks. We have no problems with the average middle-class Pakistani with the usual aspirations for a reasonable life on earth and the ability to see his children educated and well-settled in life. We do have problems with those of you who want eternal life with 72 houris ASAP and believe that killing a kaffir is the best way to get there pronto.

In fact, we wouldn`t mind taking in all the remaining Hindus and Christians of Pakistan into India so that you can get on with killing the Shias and the Ahmadiyas without having to deal with those pesky non-Muslims.

Your Jinnah wasn`t prescient about anything. Heck, he wasn`t even aware that Partition could lead to bloody riots and wholesale exchange of populations. So, let us agree that Jinnah`s demand for Pakistan was only a salve for his wounded ego. With him dead, Pakistan has only the compass he left behind... that Pakistan is not Hindustan.

Reply Urstruly # 52

Glad to see you didn’t waste your time away from Chowk.

http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=167055

Hot air or hate mail from Pakistan?



AFP [ MONDAY, JANUARY 28, 2002 8:23:24 PM ]



JODHPUR: A hot air balloon carrying a huge cut-out of a nuclear missile and hate mail from Pakistan landed on Monday in Barmer in Rajasthan, a police spokesman said.

A 22-foot (6.6-metre) high hot air balloon draped in the Pakistani national flag landed in Balai village, in Barmer, three kilometres from Jodhpur, and drew large crowds, S Sanghithir of the Rajasthan police said.

``We got the bomb disposal squad to screen the balloon for explosives. This is the second balloon to float into Rajasthan this week with hate mail from Pakistan,`` Sanghithir said.

``We have parked both the balloons in our station house car pound. They are eating into our space ... I hope this nuisance stops,`` he added.

According to witnesses, Monday`s balloon carried a plastic cut-out of Pakistan`s Ghauri missile with the message: ``Do you want a pounding?`` and ``This will knock out Agni.``

India on Friday tested its nuclear-capable Agni missile drawing a strong response from Pakistan which described it as a threat to regional security, especially at a time of heightened tensions between Islamabad and New Delhi

Reply dost-mittar # 12

“I do not dispute the brilliance of Amartya Sen (I had the great fortune of attending a few of his lectures during my student days at Delhi School of Economics) but I wouldn`t want to see him as India`s Minister of Finance; in case you didn`t know, his model state in India is Kerala - great for Social progress but not so for economic growth.”

If one’s goal is to improve the lives of average Indians, is social progress that much less important than economic progress?

Compare Kerala with another Indian State (same size, % population urban, etc.) with similar economic levels (I’d use average income, but the Economists among us may suggest a more robust indicator) and compare the lives of average people in each State. How much better (if at all) are Keralites living? That would give you a rough quantification of the benefits of social progress. I suspect that they are considerable, and that social progress should be pursued as vigorously as economic growth. I also suspect that social progress most benefits the disenfranchised, while economic progress first benefits those who are immediately able to take advantage of it (and that this is one reason that the importance of social progress is not properly appreciated or promoted by our elites).

That said, of course a country needs both social and economic progress – and they are interconnected. Education is an indicator of social progress – but in addition to teaching people the health hazards of not digging latrines etc, it also makes them capable of work that involves reading instructions – probably worth more (hence higher paid) than they would be able to get otherwise.

Best regards.

Reply Ferozk # 4

“I was taking a one month leave from chowk and am presently debating whether to extend my leave by another month or not...”

Not. Noblesse oblige.

Sadna: People tend to take an issue and simply agree or disagree with it (so they can stay on top of it). Rarely will anyone try to understand the point or consider the angle from which its being presented.

If I throw something at you, ur supposed to catch it, not ask me why I threw it. That there are objective indians and pakis IZ obvious. U do not have to tell me something everyone already KNOWS. If I tell u there are a lotta things fukked up about Islam, try 2 understand my angle. Do not tell me all the wonderful things about the faith, thats not the point.

I am presenting that angle not because I fully agree with it (and it ALONE), but because that angle is not looked at as much as the opposing one is. Complete separation between Messenger and MESSAGE will put ya focus where it should be.

I reiterate the amount of PATRIOTISM on this board is pathetic. In EVERY S. ASIAN issue, do not most People support their own countries INVARIABLY?

PS: Im still winning... Also, stop asking me about kanjars, I dont know what they are...

``There are two perspectives to look at Gandhi-one through the perspective of a Muslim and Paksitani and the other perspective is that of looking at him as a Hindu.``

Here again is my point. Everyone must look through someone elses eyes. None of U say ``I think...`` Its always, the Quran says, Jinnah says, Gandhi says....

In every post YLH refers to some scholar who agrees with him. WHO CARES??? How the hell can someone`s personage lend credence to ur point? What about the FACTS the person presents?

O-B-J-E-C-T-I-V-I-T-Y

Bold and beautiful

re:Reply #: 29

Romair,

If true, this is unfortunate. Time was when only local issues cropped up during State (assembly)elections. National (and international)issues usually dominated during parliamentary elections. It is hard to imagine that an average farmer in U.P would be more interested in a war with Pakistan than the price that his potatoes will fetch him in an open market.

Sridhar

re:Reply #: 45

Romair,

Your understanding of democracy is pathetic. In a democracy, the public sets the agenda. If majority of people form a certain opinion, this opinion cannot be neglected by political parties. If such an opinion also becomes a vote-catcher, political parties will capitalise on it.

During emergency, discipline was enforced on an unwilling public. The popular resentment of the time (against congress) was capitalised by the Janata Party which won by an overwhelming majority. The public opinion came first. Party came next.

If it is true that average Indian has a lot of resentment against Pakistan, you as a Pakistani have to ask the question: how did this happen? An average Indian was not always a Pakistani hater. How did this transformation come about? I am afraid, the policies followed by your govt and the ISI over the years resulting in sabotaging India`s interest may have played a key role in the formation of this anti-Pak sentiment.

Political leaders like Advani, Fernandez may capitalise on this sentiment in order to gain more personal popularity but please remember, they were not elected by people on this anti-Pak agenda. So, do not blame the democracy for electing these politicians who are serving India`s interest rather well though for obvious reasons are not liked by Pakistanis.

You say Mansoor Azhar has not been elected by your people. The fact is: he has not been given a fair chance so far. Pak has been ruled by military for over 25 years out of 50 years of its existence. If you hold a true election, may be Azhar will get elected (ie if he really is so popular). While democracy has been denied to your country, you take the logic of democracy to prove how Pak is better of for not having elected Azhar. How pathetic.

Sridhar

From ``DAWN`` date Jan. 29, 2000

``Advani on Pakistani list of wanted criminals

FIR says he plotted to kill Quaid-e-Azam in 1947

By Akhgar Anwar Awan

KARACHI: The possible list of wanted criminals, which Pakistan wants India to hand it over, also includes Indian Home Minister Lal Krishna Advani as he is wanted in a case to assassinate Quaid-e-Azam in 1947, sources divulged to The News.

Advani, a hawk on Kashmir and a rabid anti-Pakistani politician, has been a proclaimed offender in the case eversince its registration, the sources said. The case is based on the FIR number 4/47 that was registered on September 10, 1947 by the then SHO PS Jamshed Quarters Inspector Tooti Ram against 18 accused. They were charged with hatching a criminal conspiracy to assassinate the then governor-general Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan, Khawaja Nazimuddin and other top-line leaders of Pakistan Movement. The police, however, could arrest only six of them, while the remaining 12 accused, including L K Advani and some leaders of Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), absconded.

The arrested accused, Khem Chand s/o Gopal Das, Nand Ram s/o Gobind Ram, Gobind s/o Lal Singh, Hargobind s/o Ghando Mal, Santo s/o Ghando Mal and Tayken Das s/o Jairam were sent up for trial and were convicted by the trial court in this case. They were awarded different penalties by the court.

The case against the remaining 12 accused (absconders) was placed on dormant file till the time of their arrest. In the meantime an agreement was reached between India and Pakistan under which the six convicts were extradited to India on September 19, 1948.

The said case is still pending on dormant file against LK Advani and some leaders of VHP and, according to sources, the Pakistan government may demand of the Indian government to hand over to it these accused``

re:Reply #: 88

Romair

``I do not consider Gandhi a saint or a sufi or a spiritual figure. I think he was a shrewd lawyer and a shrewd politician. These were after all his two professions. Saints and sufis and spiritualists tend not to go into politics``.

You have just exposed to us your ignorance and idiocy. Who cares what you think? Are you superior in intellect to millions of Indians and many outside India who regard Gandhi as a saint: yes a saint in politics (that rare breed!)but a saint nevertheless.

Only a saint can understand a saint. What do pseudointellectual morons like you know about saints? Have you ever read any works of a saint? A saints action speak for themselves. Gandhi`s actions are for all to see. Read the passage on Gandhi in the chapter ``With Mahatma Gandhi at wardha`` (in Autobiography of a yogi). The book is freely available in Border or Barnes and Noble. See for yourself what one saint has to say about another.

Gandhi a shrewd lawyer? Are you on that white powder again? Gandhi was so shrewd that he would refuse to take up cases in South Africa if it involved telling lies and twisting facts. He never had a roaring practice as he was not good at deception.

So, you think Gandhi was a shrewd politician. Yet you claim you have read about him. How did you form this opinion? Did this occur to you while you were meditating or were you once again on the white powder. Let me tell you how shrewd Gandhi was. He was so shrewd that when India became independent and he could have declared himself P.M (the job was his for the asking), he showed no interest in wielding power (what a jerk, right? Anyone else, including your Qaid-e-azam would not have missed this chance). He was so shrewd that despite a popular wave of resentment against muslims, he asked the hindu refugees to return the houses of muslims that they had forcibly occupied. He went on a fast unto death in Birla house to press for various demands one of which was to return the money that India owed to Pakistan.

Gandhi was that rare breed among politicians. He strayed into politics because he saw British rule as a great evil that impoverished the masses of India. His war was also against untouchability, exploitation of women so on and so forth. You seem to have formed the idea that all politians have to be shrewd. Perhaps you have not heard of some principled ones. You may start the list with M.K.Gandhi.

My advice to you. Do not talk about things and people you do not know or understand. Your pseudo-intellecutal credentials stand discredited when you do so.

Sridhar

arjun #137 you write ``... you guys ...``

The ``you guys`` refers to all Pakistanis (or whatever name you chose to call us with in order to demonstrate your wit and maturity). But remember that Urstruly speaks for himself only. You are welcome to get down to his level in the sewers with him and talk to him in the vocabulary he uses if you wish. Just dont let him fool you into thinking he is a spokesman for Pakistanis or anyone else.