Empty Vessels And All That Jazz

Reply #: 67

Zeemax------Reply #: 64 Ras Siddiqui

``. Very few people, know what he had said. Do you know Ras what he had said ?``

.................

Zeemax

If what Bina sayz in #71 ``show me the money `` is correct what is so original about this Pakistani Hero.

Like your heroes Zeemax i dont think all of you are anywhere near world level of player .But as a fault all of you carry a burden sized ego like a garbage can

Reply Zeemax # 51, #56

“Ok. Done. Stop the verbal abuse.”

OK, I will do my best to meet the standard of politeness and fairness that you set. From now on it’s up to you. (We’ll forget your comment on those poor Greeks?)

[``If going 100% Islamic was not the solution then, why is it the best option for Pakistanis now(I assume you think it is).``

“Yes I think it is. We have a serious identity problem. I had earlier been of the opinion that Pakistan should have a South-East Asian Identity as we were all born with that. Same as India, Nepal, Bangladesh & Sri Lanka. My article re Millenium Manifesto refers. However One lives and learns. Now I do not believe the same. I now believe we are Muslims first, and anything else later. Our Muslim identity is what will guide us through the mess of the subcontinent.”]

Some questions:

1 What exactly is this identity problem? Is it experienced by average Pakistanis? (For example, a villager from rural Punjab?) How many Pakistanis on chowk do you think would agree with you that they have an identity problem?

2 What about non-Muslim Pakistanis. How are they supposed to manufacture a non-Muslim but Islamic identity? Is there such a thing? Is there any reason for them to do this other than fear of violence from the majority?

3 How broad would you say this Muslim identity should be? Will it be basically Sunni? Will it include Shias? How about Ahmedis? Who decides who’s in and who’s out? What if people disagree?

Fuzair #69: I wonder if the collapse of BCCI has stopped smugglers from money laundering? Why haven`t any other bank in the world charges with the same practices or all the smugglers around the world have decided to hide their money under the pillows or in the safe vaults in the wall?

I think it is not the question of who launders but who is charged and penalized.

Just think about it. Had BCCI survived today, imagine its links with al-queda.

Syed Ahmed:

The bonded labor/private jails practice arose in these districts of Sindh due to a very common practice of the haris, mainly those in the Bheel and Kohli ethnic group - they borrow money, 50,000 rupees or a lakh - from landholders in advance of their labor. Then they renege on the debt and run away, often to disappear into the desert. The landholders, who are not the big fish but usually smaller fry, are left with large losses that usually ruin them in the long run. Because of a lack of administration and legal recourse, the landholders came up with the bright idea of chaining the laborers, to make sure that they didn`t leave their debts ``unpaid``. Certainly not something that adheres to human rights (Guantanamo, anyone?), but I bet you they`d use chains and locks in Debtors` Prison too. (This is not a justification of the system, just an explanation of it...)

Zeemax #67

I know what he said: ``Show me the money!``

Hee hee hee ho ho ho!

Zeemax #67

I know what he said: ``Show me the money!``

Hee hee hee ho ho ho!

Zeemax:

Thank you for the correction. I agree that you would know better than I what BCCI really was like.

Urstruly:

Its been a long time and I don`t remember all of the sordid details but these are some of what I do remember--

1 GoP used to give a 1/2% commission to the bank that sold the old Khas Deposit Certificates. BCCI, and some other (mainly Middle Eastern and HSBC) banks as well but NOT mine, used to have front men use the banks excess funds to buy up several million rupees worth of KDCs, earn the 1/2% commission (I think the minimum holding period used to be two weeks?) and then redeem the KDCs. Money for nothing for the bank.

2 Finance managers, etc., of v. large firms would be routinely ``lent`` v. large sums to buy KDCs which were then immediately (same day) hypothecated to the bank. Thus SBP regulations on unsecured overdrafts were not violated. The loans were made at 10% interest (oops, we`re all Islamic now, so markup) and the KDCs paid 16% (could have been 14.5%, can`t remember the exact rate, was a looooong time ago!) so the high-up company official earned a 6% spread for nothing. Not bad if made on 12-15 lakhs rupees (back then, a lakh was nothing to sneeze at!) and it certainly made the firm`s personnel much more inclined to do business with BCCI!

This, I`m sorry to say, my bank also did once or twice to my knowledge. However, when you have to compete with the likes of BCCI....

3 Upper-management of firms would be paid a kickback (i.e., remitted a portion of the bank`s fee) on the L/Cs, guarantees, etc, that they opened with BCCI.

4 Banks had to report credit ceiling utilization to the State Bank of Pakistan every Thursday (back when Friday was the weekly holiday), so if BCCI had miscalculated its credit ceiling utilization and was over the additional ceiling amount it had purchased from other banks, it would bribe the finance people of large firms to transfer funds from other banks to BCCI. Thus BCCI`s outstanding credit would be reduced and they would not incur State Bank penalties.

Several times, after we got a last minute, literally, request for an SBP cheque for a couple of million to be issued to BCCI ASAP (thus increasing our credit outstanding), I called up the chief cashier at some large corporate client to ask him, why when he had assured me just that morning that they weren`t going to use any more of their overdraft, they were now going to withdraw several million rupees? Almost invariably the answer used to be that BCCI nay baRay saab to dus minut pehlay phone kiya aur saab nay hammay kaha heh keh BCCI (or occasionally HSBC) to dus million ka State Bank cheque forun bhaejo.

5 Routinely transferred/laundered hundreds of millions of dollars for Pakistani drug smugglers.

While every bank in Pakistan did some of these things (if not #5) at least some of the time, BCCI did all of these things as a matter of routine business.

These are all that I remember now. I`m sure that Zeemax can give you more details on how BCCI operated in Pakistan.

Regards.

Hmm I think FerozK said it correctly..if I am quoting the right person, when he said even Zia helped the odd slob, Zia obviously did or he wouldn`t have had so many people attending his funeral(probably his only ever jaloos!)

About ZAB, and the case of the FIR, well that`s the whole problem, he was a megalomaniac, a show man, he thought he was a god but for the Grace of God, and hence indestructible. The Bhutto arrogance was even inherited, unfortunately the intelligece wasn`t in BB`s case! I think Zeemax you are looking at ZAB, King Faisal through Rose tinted glasses, not a crime.. it`s just I think we should stop looking for hero`s and hero figures and accept people for what they are, my experience has been the closer you get to alleged `great people` the smaller they become.

Reply #: 64 Ras Siddiqui

Zeemax,

Abidi`s dislike of ZAB was I thought

pretty well known. How do you reconcile the two?

Great question Ras. It was because both were true leaders. Agha Hasan was bigger than Bhutto. Bhutto didn`t tolerate that, because Buhuto was in power and didn`t like any dissent. Agha Hasan was the global leader even bigger than Bhutto so they didn`t reconcile. I don`t reconcile the two as well. No question about that. Agha Saheb was bigger. May his soul rest in peace and may we learn from what he had said. Very few people, know what he had said. Do you know Ras what he had said ?

re zeemax #51:

``After all what is any currency`s value?``

If anybody really knew that he or she would be a very wealthy person. Soros and other hedge fund speculators are wrongly blamed for the far eastern crisis. The guy took on the British pound in 1992 and killed it too. Was that a conspiracy also? If a country is confident enough to make its currency convertible or tries to peg it to something, it should also be able to defend it against attacks from `rogue` elements. That`s the price one pays for integration into the global financial system. Soros pointed out in a recent interview with Ted Koppel when accused of destroying the Malyasian Ringitt and in hindsight whether he should have avoided it.

``Not necessarily because that would have been an unintended consequence of my action. And it`s not my job as a participant to calculate the consequences. This is what a market is. That`s the nature of a market. So I`m a participant in the market.``

And I would be interested in knowing which Quantum fund doubled its assets during the asian crisis? Quantum is not just one fund. It is four or five different funds and most of them had their heyday in the early and mid nineties. But then most of them were roundly trounced by the NASDAQ during those days.

``If leadership is not the answer, what is ?``

Please read my previous reply for some clues. Rationalizing a search for identity by advocating a reversion to an outmoded and impractical idealogy may win some points with the elite in search for a panacea but the real world is an entirely different animal.

On the BCCI issue:

Have you ever thought about the hapless thousands that lost their life savings so they could support the lavish lifestyles of its manangers?

``It only demanded two things; Complete dedication & loyalty.``

So does the mafia.

later

-sac

Reply #: 59 Fuzair

``I too learnt first-hand why BCCI was called the Bank of Crooks and Conmen International.``

No it wasn`t called the Bank of Crooks and Conmen International. It was called Bank of Crooks and Criminals International. Get your facts right before engaging in a discussion with me.

Zeemax,
Abidi`s dislike of ZAB was I thought
pretty well known. How do you reconcile the two?

Ras

Reply #: 57 bong_dongs

Yes there`re books like the $20 Billion Robbery, and the Financial Express of london books on BCCI. The truth, however, my friend, only I can tell you.

Rgds

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/020205/80/crmyj.html

Musharraf claims divine authority



Click to enlarge photo

MUZAFFARABAD, Pakistan (Reuters) - Pakistani military ruler General Pervez Musharraf, who has vowed to turn Pakistan into a moderate Islamic state, has invoked a verse from the Koran to claim divine authority for his rule.

His remarks appeared aimed at countering criticism of a crackdown on radical Islamic groups launched last month.

``I tell these people, who have become the custodians of Islam or who think that they understand Islam better, that it is Almighty God who gives honour or authority to anybody,`` Musharraf said in an address to the state parliament of Pakistan-controlled Kashmir on Tuesday.

``This is our faith that God almighty gives honour to whoever He wants and snatches honour from whoever He wants. If this is our faith then God Almighty has brought me to this position.``

The president, who seized power in a bloodless coup in October 1999, appealed to the Pakistani people to have trust in him and his government and vowed not to let them down.

``This position, this authority has been bestowed by God and as long as I hold this authority, and whatever work I am doing with full responsibility, all Pakistanis should have confidence in that because this is our faith,`` Musharraf said.

Fuzair

``I knew a former BCCI employee, then at the Stanford Business School, and he detailed exactly what BCCI was and how they did business and why he decided to leave.``

Would you share the insight with us as well. I am only curious-I hate BCCI also since they didnt give me admission in FAST.