Harish Nambiar February 6, 2002
#52 Posted by cutandpaste on February 11, 2002 6:33:04 pm
Congress gets initial lead in Maharashtra civic polls
Press Trust of India
Mumbai, February 11: Congress is forging ahead in the elections for the various municipal corporations in Maharashtra, according to results available so far.
In Solapur, Congress has bagged seven seats followed by BJP winning six seats, while Shiv Sena won three and NCP two, sources in the state election Commission said in Mumbai.
Among the results available so far from the orange city Nagpur, Congress has won three seats.
In the neighbouring Thane, NCP has bagged four and Shiv Sena and BJP shared one seat each, sources said.
In Akola, BJP bagged one seat while the a local front bagged five seats and Bharipa Bahujan Mahasangh three.
In Amrawati municipal corporation polls, Congress has won four seats as against two seats by Shiv Sena.
Meanwhile, according to trends available for the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC Brihanmumbai Mahanagar Palika) polls, Shiv Sena is leading in 14 seats, followed by Congress in nine while BJP and NCP have established leads in two seats and one seat respectively.
Press Trust of India
Mumbai, February 11: Congress is forging ahead in the elections for the various municipal corporations in Maharashtra, according to results available so far.
In Solapur, Congress has bagged seven seats followed by BJP winning six seats, while Shiv Sena won three and NCP two, sources in the state election Commission said in Mumbai.
Among the results available so far from the orange city Nagpur, Congress has won three seats.
In the neighbouring Thane, NCP has bagged four and Shiv Sena and BJP shared one seat each, sources said.
In Akola, BJP bagged one seat while the a local front bagged five seats and Bharipa Bahujan Mahasangh three.
In Amrawati municipal corporation polls, Congress has won four seats as against two seats by Shiv Sena.
Meanwhile, according to trends available for the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC Brihanmumbai Mahanagar Palika) polls, Shiv Sena is leading in 14 seats, followed by Congress in nine while BJP and NCP have established leads in two seats and one seat respectively.
#54 Posted by sadna on February 11, 2002 11:43:28 pm
dost-mittar #54
http://www.indiainfo.com/news/Sep-2-99/2di25.html
http://www.the-week.com/99sep05/daily.htm#34
``..RSS was involved in `84 anti-Sikh riots
The Congress candidate for the South Delhi Lok Sabha seat Manmohan Singh, has said that the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), was actively involved in the anti-Sikh carnage in the capital 1984. Talking to reporters at the Press Club of India, Singh called the 1984 riots ``a black spot and the saddest event``. He asserted that the Congress had no role in it, he claimed. ``It should not have happened.`` He said that his winning the Padma Vibushan in the same year was proof enough that the Congress had no role in the carnage. The first information reports lodged at police stations in Delhi show that RSS men were involved in the riots, Singh said. ..``
----
Here it is implied that he lost mainly because his own party considered him `too strong` a candidate!
http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/19991007/fpo07076.html
``.. As the impression gained ground in the party that he would have greater acceptibility as the Prime Minister in case the Congress romped home, there were subtle efforts to scuttle his chances of victory. There were tell-tale signs of the party leadership not extending him the physical wherewithal for electioneering. Singh himself admitted before the people that he had no funds to fight back his opponent, BJP`s Vijay Kumar Malhotra.
Singh created media wave in Delhi with newspapers headlining his winning chances from the prestigious South Delhi constituency. This put Vijay Kumar Malhotra in his toes and the BJP-RSS cadres swung into action to counter the formidable Congress candidate.
Among a few supporters of Singh was Delhi Chief Minister Sheila Dixit who tried to help him in his campaign. But that was about all. The impression sought to be created around 10 Janpath was that whoever helped Singh was bound to incur the wrath of Sonia Gandhi. They may or may not be correct. But it had its repercussions.
According to party sources close to Singh, the former world bank economist realised the odds towards the later part of his campaigning. He then went about his job virtually alone with a handful of academic supporters. The party cadres , indeed, had distanced themselves.
Singh made one mistake on the penultimate day of his campaigning which, according to sources, proved costly. Addressing mediapersons at the press club here, Singh blamed the RSS for the 1984 anti-Sikh riots in Delhi and elsewhere in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi`s assassination. The BJP cadres exploited it to the hilt and managed to alienate a sizeable section of Sikh voters from Manmohan Singh. Singh sought to correct himself the next day by issuing a statement that he had not entirely blamed the RSS for the riots and that he had only referred to the FIR then which mentioned about the RSS. But it was too late. The damage was already done...``
http://www.indiainfo.com/news/Sep-2-99/2di25.html
http://www.the-week.com/99sep05/daily.htm#34
``..RSS was involved in `84 anti-Sikh riots
The Congress candidate for the South Delhi Lok Sabha seat Manmohan Singh, has said that the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), was actively involved in the anti-Sikh carnage in the capital 1984. Talking to reporters at the Press Club of India, Singh called the 1984 riots ``a black spot and the saddest event``. He asserted that the Congress had no role in it, he claimed. ``It should not have happened.`` He said that his winning the Padma Vibushan in the same year was proof enough that the Congress had no role in the carnage. The first information reports lodged at police stations in Delhi show that RSS men were involved in the riots, Singh said. ..``
----
Here it is implied that he lost mainly because his own party considered him `too strong` a candidate!
http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/19991007/fpo07076.html
``.. As the impression gained ground in the party that he would have greater acceptibility as the Prime Minister in case the Congress romped home, there were subtle efforts to scuttle his chances of victory. There were tell-tale signs of the party leadership not extending him the physical wherewithal for electioneering. Singh himself admitted before the people that he had no funds to fight back his opponent, BJP`s Vijay Kumar Malhotra.
Singh created media wave in Delhi with newspapers headlining his winning chances from the prestigious South Delhi constituency. This put Vijay Kumar Malhotra in his toes and the BJP-RSS cadres swung into action to counter the formidable Congress candidate.
Among a few supporters of Singh was Delhi Chief Minister Sheila Dixit who tried to help him in his campaign. But that was about all. The impression sought to be created around 10 Janpath was that whoever helped Singh was bound to incur the wrath of Sonia Gandhi. They may or may not be correct. But it had its repercussions.
According to party sources close to Singh, the former world bank economist realised the odds towards the later part of his campaigning. He then went about his job virtually alone with a handful of academic supporters. The party cadres , indeed, had distanced themselves.
Singh made one mistake on the penultimate day of his campaigning which, according to sources, proved costly. Addressing mediapersons at the press club here, Singh blamed the RSS for the 1984 anti-Sikh riots in Delhi and elsewhere in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi`s assassination. The BJP cadres exploited it to the hilt and managed to alienate a sizeable section of Sikh voters from Manmohan Singh. Singh sought to correct himself the next day by issuing a statement that he had not entirely blamed the RSS for the riots and that he had only referred to the FIR then which mentioned about the RSS. But it was too late. The damage was already done...``
#55 Posted by Asim on February 12, 2002 1:22:01 am
Hindu carving knives are out!
The writer is a well known journalist
hkburki@hotmail.com
A new India is abroad. A muscular Hindu republic, overbearing, intransigent. It seeks to impose absolute domination over its South Asian neighbours and to assert itself as the big power. A bloodthirsty bellicosity, reflecting the transformation, accompanies the massive deployment of its forces on Pakistan`s borders. And it demands compliance with its wishes, or else.
Atal Behari Vajpayee and his RSS colleagues deserve credit for their candour. For decades, the Congress Party and its camp-followers had concealed with a smokescreen of secularism an essentially Brahmanic dispensation. It was a perfect rendering of the old saying: Ram, Ram, on the lips, a knife under the armpit. The BJP leaders have shed the mask of hypocrisy and come out in the open with a strident Hindu agenda. Ram, Ram is done with, knives are out. Little wonder, Kuldip Nayar, the veteran Indian columnist, has been driven to lament bitterly that communalism was now rife in the land of Gandhi.
Despite all the mayhem, Delhi`s designs have been frustrated thus far. Thanks primarily to General Musharraf`s firm response in the field, backed by vigorous, principled diplomacy. No one is indispensable and that goes for Pervez Musharraf, too. One shudders to think, however, what might have befallen the beleaguered country had it been blessed with the services of one of those fake democrats.
The Indians have been thwarted in the first round. Their forces are still poised on the border, however. Sabre-rattling and brinkmanship continue to be the predominant motifs. The big bully may, in fact, make a lunge. It is in the nature of the beast.
Not many people are left in this country with direct personal experience of inter-action with high caste Hindus in pre-partition India. The number of those in authority who have been exposed to the inner workings of the Indian mind in the turbulent years since the independence, has also shrunk. Fortunately, Pervez Musharraf`s Foreign Minister is thoroughly conversant with India`s deviousness and hegemonic aims.
There is no dearth of expert analysts, however. Brought up mostly on a diet of Indian statements and periodic pious declarations, they thrash about in shoals of ignorance, cocksure and assertive. All manner of weird panaceas and fanciful compromises flow from their prolix pens. Adopt Pakistan first policy, forget Kashmir is one prize exhibit. Remove the provocation and the Lalajis would leave us alone.
It looks pretty neat in print and original. There is just one small flaw. It is oblivious of Indian ruling elite`s mindset and barely concealed agenda. You can ditch the Kashmiris, yes, but it won`t buy you any relief, much less safety. For Delhi Kashmir is a nuisance, and it can remove the irritant at any time. All it needs to do is to let the Kashmiris exercise the autonomy already conceded in the Indian Constitution. No, in Delhi`s book, there is only one problem: Pakistan. Its very existence is taken as an insult to Mother India.
The BJP makes no bones about its plan to impose on all citizens, including Muslims and Christians, Hindu culture. That is one short step away from total absorption. It is in an old mantra, long familiar to Muslims, and also identified by a great Mexican writer. Octavio Paz who served as his country`s ambassador in Delhi for several years, noted Hinduism`s immense power of assimilation. ``Like an enormous metaphysical boa, Hinduism slowly and relentlessly digests foreign cultures, gods, languages, and beliefs.``
High-caste Hindus nurse a bitter, deep-seated grudge against the Muslims for having ruled over them a thousand years. That the boa constrictor has failed to digest the Muslims must rankle even more. Now that India has achieved great economic strength and assembled a juggernaut with nuclear teeth, the Hindus want to settle all old scores at one go. Here and now, Pakistan`s nuclear deterrent notwithstanding.
The weekly TV programme, ``Question Time India`` is an eye-opener. The panelists as well as the 150 selected questioners, predominantly middles class Hindus, have been baying for Pakistan`s blood for months. They think they are already a Super Power. If the US can attack Afghanistan to destroy terrorists why can`t India cross the Line of Control and do the same? No cricket with Pakistan they scream in unison. What defies comprehension is the craven attitude of Pakistan`s very martial cricket establishment. Why must it keep begging for fixtures? If the Indians don`t want to play, let them go to Timbuktu.
TV channels, the print media with some honourable exceptions like ``The Hindu``, even Bollywood films have all been carrying on a hysterical campaign against Pakistan, demanding condign punishment. One leading pundit of strategy has boldly gone forth to propose that Pakistan`s nuclear bluff must be called, as if it was a game of cards. Defence Minister George Fernandes, perhaps already in the jaws of the metaphysical boa, has boasted that India can absorb the first nuclear strike. Even as bluster, it borders on madness.
Clearly, the Indians think they have Pakistan at their mercy and can realise their dream of sucking it back into the lap of Mother India. Nehru and Patel had tried to snuff it out at its very birth. Nehru`s daughter came very close to destroying it in 1971. And she thought she had cut what remained of it down to size. She had overlooked the political genius and resolution of a man called Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. The dynamic leader, still much reviled in his homeland, picked up the pieces, restored Pakistan to robust health and launched a full-scale nuclear programme. It is time, the General stopped foul-mouthing the already much-wronged man and acknowledge publicly his contribution.
Another bid to fix Pakistan was made in 1998 with a series of nuclear tests. A K Advani, the arch Hindu revanchist, promptly declared that Pakistan was back in the situation it faced in December 1971, thereby hinting at the prospects of another surrender. Somehow the Indians concluded that Pakistan lacked nuclear capability or at least the will to demonstrate it. They were not too far off the mark. But for the military`s insistence, Nawaz Sharif would have obliged.
Then came a reversion to the Ram, Ram ruse. They worked on Nawaz, buying his sugar and offering economic openings for his family business. There was a well-orchestrated yatra by Lala Vajpayee to Lahore, signing a meaningless Lahore Declaration. To their dismay, however, Nawaz Sharif`s bid to become the all-powerful Caliph was nipped in the nick of time. In inter-state relations, one has rarely come across the kind of venom the Indians spewed against Pakistan for changing its government, purely its own internal affair.
Atalji was in good company. Bill Clinton, let us not forget, was equally incensed. The US President immediately imposed sanctions. And on his way back from his triumphant visit to India, he stopped over in Islamabad four hours simply to heap insults on Gen Musharraf. Those who claim that these gentlemen were acting in defence of democracy need to have their heads examined. Bill and Atalji were both furious because they had been deprived of a protÈgÈ they had cultivated assiduously. The leader of Pakistan`s sham democracy was to implement their agendas.
Some Pakistani scribes, more authoritative than yours truly by far, have been taking frequent swipes at Pervez Musharraf for his handling of the post-September 11 situation. One telephone call from George Bush and the country`s sovereignty was compromised. That is one charge against the General. Even more scathing is the question: What happened to the much vaunted deterrent?
One can`t help wondering in which geological stratum these gentles reside. What. Planet of the Apes? Who had ever suggested that Pakistan`s two dozen bombs were a deterrent against Washington? In the heat of self-righteous indignation, it is forgotten that Pakistan was a virtually bankrupt state and already under a dire threat from the east. How could President Musharraf risk denying staging facilities and over-flights to a wounded Super Power ready to pulverize all opposition to its war of revenge against terrorists?
Pakistan`s participation in the international coalition in which India, incidentally, is a more than eager partner, has exposed the country to certain dangers. It has brought, however, significant and much-needed immediate economic benefits. No less important, it has assured Western diplomatic support against a rampant India.
There is an unfortunate dimension to this latest jigsaw of international equations. The Western Powers in general and the United States in particular, do not understand or do not want to know, the true nature and aspirations of a resurgent India.
One of Washington`s long-standing obsessions is the containment of China. When Nehru`s forward policy resulted in a thorough drubbing by a battle-hardened People`s Liberation Army in 1962, Kennedy rushed to Panditji`s assistance. Arms for six mountain divisions were gifted and several ordnance factories followed. Now, once more, George Bush wants to counter China`s growing economic clout and military muscle. Agreements to transfer state of the art defence technology were signed by the Indian Defence Minister in Washington last month. Strategic cooperation is on the anvil. Since India already enjoys full access to Russian weaponry, it seems well set to buying its way into the super league.
In seeking a counter-weight to China, already a near Super Power, the United States will end up facing two Super States. For Washington does not seem to realise that India would want to operate as a world power with goals of its own and not as an American sidekick.
What would be the fate of Pakistan? Islamabad could throw itself at the mercy of Delhi, as some smart alecks amongst us are already hinting. In that case, Pakistanis must be prepared to accept the status of virtual untouchables, for the Hindu upper crust is not going to abandon its caste system any time soon. Even after three millennia of near serfdom, 200 million Dalits are still struggling to free themselves. There is an honourable alternative available, and it is rather Spartan. Maintain a minimum creditable deterrent, both in conventional forces and nuclear weapons. And, simultaneously, acquire economic strength. Not too tall an order, but it demands dedication.
The writer is a well known journalist
hkburki@hotmail.com
A new India is abroad. A muscular Hindu republic, overbearing, intransigent. It seeks to impose absolute domination over its South Asian neighbours and to assert itself as the big power. A bloodthirsty bellicosity, reflecting the transformation, accompanies the massive deployment of its forces on Pakistan`s borders. And it demands compliance with its wishes, or else.
Atal Behari Vajpayee and his RSS colleagues deserve credit for their candour. For decades, the Congress Party and its camp-followers had concealed with a smokescreen of secularism an essentially Brahmanic dispensation. It was a perfect rendering of the old saying: Ram, Ram, on the lips, a knife under the armpit. The BJP leaders have shed the mask of hypocrisy and come out in the open with a strident Hindu agenda. Ram, Ram is done with, knives are out. Little wonder, Kuldip Nayar, the veteran Indian columnist, has been driven to lament bitterly that communalism was now rife in the land of Gandhi.
Despite all the mayhem, Delhi`s designs have been frustrated thus far. Thanks primarily to General Musharraf`s firm response in the field, backed by vigorous, principled diplomacy. No one is indispensable and that goes for Pervez Musharraf, too. One shudders to think, however, what might have befallen the beleaguered country had it been blessed with the services of one of those fake democrats.
The Indians have been thwarted in the first round. Their forces are still poised on the border, however. Sabre-rattling and brinkmanship continue to be the predominant motifs. The big bully may, in fact, make a lunge. It is in the nature of the beast.
Not many people are left in this country with direct personal experience of inter-action with high caste Hindus in pre-partition India. The number of those in authority who have been exposed to the inner workings of the Indian mind in the turbulent years since the independence, has also shrunk. Fortunately, Pervez Musharraf`s Foreign Minister is thoroughly conversant with India`s deviousness and hegemonic aims.
There is no dearth of expert analysts, however. Brought up mostly on a diet of Indian statements and periodic pious declarations, they thrash about in shoals of ignorance, cocksure and assertive. All manner of weird panaceas and fanciful compromises flow from their prolix pens. Adopt Pakistan first policy, forget Kashmir is one prize exhibit. Remove the provocation and the Lalajis would leave us alone.
It looks pretty neat in print and original. There is just one small flaw. It is oblivious of Indian ruling elite`s mindset and barely concealed agenda. You can ditch the Kashmiris, yes, but it won`t buy you any relief, much less safety. For Delhi Kashmir is a nuisance, and it can remove the irritant at any time. All it needs to do is to let the Kashmiris exercise the autonomy already conceded in the Indian Constitution. No, in Delhi`s book, there is only one problem: Pakistan. Its very existence is taken as an insult to Mother India.
The BJP makes no bones about its plan to impose on all citizens, including Muslims and Christians, Hindu culture. That is one short step away from total absorption. It is in an old mantra, long familiar to Muslims, and also identified by a great Mexican writer. Octavio Paz who served as his country`s ambassador in Delhi for several years, noted Hinduism`s immense power of assimilation. ``Like an enormous metaphysical boa, Hinduism slowly and relentlessly digests foreign cultures, gods, languages, and beliefs.``
High-caste Hindus nurse a bitter, deep-seated grudge against the Muslims for having ruled over them a thousand years. That the boa constrictor has failed to digest the Muslims must rankle even more. Now that India has achieved great economic strength and assembled a juggernaut with nuclear teeth, the Hindus want to settle all old scores at one go. Here and now, Pakistan`s nuclear deterrent notwithstanding.
The weekly TV programme, ``Question Time India`` is an eye-opener. The panelists as well as the 150 selected questioners, predominantly middles class Hindus, have been baying for Pakistan`s blood for months. They think they are already a Super Power. If the US can attack Afghanistan to destroy terrorists why can`t India cross the Line of Control and do the same? No cricket with Pakistan they scream in unison. What defies comprehension is the craven attitude of Pakistan`s very martial cricket establishment. Why must it keep begging for fixtures? If the Indians don`t want to play, let them go to Timbuktu.
TV channels, the print media with some honourable exceptions like ``The Hindu``, even Bollywood films have all been carrying on a hysterical campaign against Pakistan, demanding condign punishment. One leading pundit of strategy has boldly gone forth to propose that Pakistan`s nuclear bluff must be called, as if it was a game of cards. Defence Minister George Fernandes, perhaps already in the jaws of the metaphysical boa, has boasted that India can absorb the first nuclear strike. Even as bluster, it borders on madness.
Clearly, the Indians think they have Pakistan at their mercy and can realise their dream of sucking it back into the lap of Mother India. Nehru and Patel had tried to snuff it out at its very birth. Nehru`s daughter came very close to destroying it in 1971. And she thought she had cut what remained of it down to size. She had overlooked the political genius and resolution of a man called Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. The dynamic leader, still much reviled in his homeland, picked up the pieces, restored Pakistan to robust health and launched a full-scale nuclear programme. It is time, the General stopped foul-mouthing the already much-wronged man and acknowledge publicly his contribution.
Another bid to fix Pakistan was made in 1998 with a series of nuclear tests. A K Advani, the arch Hindu revanchist, promptly declared that Pakistan was back in the situation it faced in December 1971, thereby hinting at the prospects of another surrender. Somehow the Indians concluded that Pakistan lacked nuclear capability or at least the will to demonstrate it. They were not too far off the mark. But for the military`s insistence, Nawaz Sharif would have obliged.
Then came a reversion to the Ram, Ram ruse. They worked on Nawaz, buying his sugar and offering economic openings for his family business. There was a well-orchestrated yatra by Lala Vajpayee to Lahore, signing a meaningless Lahore Declaration. To their dismay, however, Nawaz Sharif`s bid to become the all-powerful Caliph was nipped in the nick of time. In inter-state relations, one has rarely come across the kind of venom the Indians spewed against Pakistan for changing its government, purely its own internal affair.
Atalji was in good company. Bill Clinton, let us not forget, was equally incensed. The US President immediately imposed sanctions. And on his way back from his triumphant visit to India, he stopped over in Islamabad four hours simply to heap insults on Gen Musharraf. Those who claim that these gentlemen were acting in defence of democracy need to have their heads examined. Bill and Atalji were both furious because they had been deprived of a protÈgÈ they had cultivated assiduously. The leader of Pakistan`s sham democracy was to implement their agendas.
Some Pakistani scribes, more authoritative than yours truly by far, have been taking frequent swipes at Pervez Musharraf for his handling of the post-September 11 situation. One telephone call from George Bush and the country`s sovereignty was compromised. That is one charge against the General. Even more scathing is the question: What happened to the much vaunted deterrent?
One can`t help wondering in which geological stratum these gentles reside. What. Planet of the Apes? Who had ever suggested that Pakistan`s two dozen bombs were a deterrent against Washington? In the heat of self-righteous indignation, it is forgotten that Pakistan was a virtually bankrupt state and already under a dire threat from the east. How could President Musharraf risk denying staging facilities and over-flights to a wounded Super Power ready to pulverize all opposition to its war of revenge against terrorists?
Pakistan`s participation in the international coalition in which India, incidentally, is a more than eager partner, has exposed the country to certain dangers. It has brought, however, significant and much-needed immediate economic benefits. No less important, it has assured Western diplomatic support against a rampant India.
There is an unfortunate dimension to this latest jigsaw of international equations. The Western Powers in general and the United States in particular, do not understand or do not want to know, the true nature and aspirations of a resurgent India.
One of Washington`s long-standing obsessions is the containment of China. When Nehru`s forward policy resulted in a thorough drubbing by a battle-hardened People`s Liberation Army in 1962, Kennedy rushed to Panditji`s assistance. Arms for six mountain divisions were gifted and several ordnance factories followed. Now, once more, George Bush wants to counter China`s growing economic clout and military muscle. Agreements to transfer state of the art defence technology were signed by the Indian Defence Minister in Washington last month. Strategic cooperation is on the anvil. Since India already enjoys full access to Russian weaponry, it seems well set to buying its way into the super league.
In seeking a counter-weight to China, already a near Super Power, the United States will end up facing two Super States. For Washington does not seem to realise that India would want to operate as a world power with goals of its own and not as an American sidekick.
What would be the fate of Pakistan? Islamabad could throw itself at the mercy of Delhi, as some smart alecks amongst us are already hinting. In that case, Pakistanis must be prepared to accept the status of virtual untouchables, for the Hindu upper crust is not going to abandon its caste system any time soon. Even after three millennia of near serfdom, 200 million Dalits are still struggling to free themselves. There is an honourable alternative available, and it is rather Spartan. Maintain a minimum creditable deterrent, both in conventional forces and nuclear weapons. And, simultaneously, acquire economic strength. Not too tall an order, but it demands dedication.
#56 Posted by Ralph on February 12, 2002 3:01:04 am
Asim Hayat #56
In which other country would a mainstream newspaper publish articles written by ``well known journalists,`` full of such bigotry against followers of another religion?
Ram, Ram, on the lips, a knife under the armpit.
Personal experience of inter-action with high caste Hindus.
Inner workings of the Indian mind.
Remove the provocation and the Lalajis.
``Like an enormous metaphysical boa, Hinduism.
That the boa constrictor.
Hindus baying for Pakistan`s blood.
Defence Minister in the jaws of the metaphysical boa.
Lala Vajpayee.
``Liberals`` of which other country would post such articles on a public forum?
In which other country would a mainstream newspaper publish articles written by ``well known journalists,`` full of such bigotry against followers of another religion?
Ram, Ram, on the lips, a knife under the armpit.
Personal experience of inter-action with high caste Hindus.
Inner workings of the Indian mind.
Remove the provocation and the Lalajis.
``Like an enormous metaphysical boa, Hinduism.
That the boa constrictor.
Hindus baying for Pakistan`s blood.
Defence Minister in the jaws of the metaphysical boa.
Lala Vajpayee.
``Liberals`` of which other country would post such articles on a public forum?
#57 Posted by soundmeister on February 12, 2002 11:34:14 am
Re: Asim Hayat #56:
Just curious..... but is it necessary as a Pakistani to publicly announce your love/admiration/ hero-worship of one of your great leaders? Case in point: YLH and Jinnah. But at least YLH is on sound ground. This joker actually counts Bhutto Senior as one of his heroes!!! A man who led his country through a horrendous Civil conflict, not to mention a humiliating international war soon after, who was later overthrown violently and executed by his own countrymen for treason, is now a hero! Yaar, you guys better tell us which of your leaders is worth mocking. Till now it`s only Benazir, who for some reason is easy meat(I suspect it`s because she`s a woman but my opinion as a Hindian don`t count). Mushy is fun to make fun of, but Pakistanis get needlessly upset when we do that. Why can`t you be more like us and hate your leaders the way we do?
Just curious..... but is it necessary as a Pakistani to publicly announce your love/admiration/ hero-worship of one of your great leaders? Case in point: YLH and Jinnah. But at least YLH is on sound ground. This joker actually counts Bhutto Senior as one of his heroes!!! A man who led his country through a horrendous Civil conflict, not to mention a humiliating international war soon after, who was later overthrown violently and executed by his own countrymen for treason, is now a hero! Yaar, you guys better tell us which of your leaders is worth mocking. Till now it`s only Benazir, who for some reason is easy meat(I suspect it`s because she`s a woman but my opinion as a Hindian don`t count). Mushy is fun to make fun of, but Pakistanis get needlessly upset when we do that. Why can`t you be more like us and hate your leaders the way we do?
#58 Posted by pmishra2 on February 12, 2002 11:34:14 am
Asim Hayat #56
Thanks for publishing this piece of hate speech. It is similar to the kind of articles the nazis wrote about Jews amd may even be a rewrite of one of those articles. The most amazing thing is that it is published in a major pak national newspaper on the OpEd page. You will never find its equivalent in any indian newspaper.
It shows that *educated * pakistanis are brought up to think of hindus as sub-human (or super-human!) but defintely not as plain human beings. The really sad thing is that these thoughts are coming from pakistanis with some education, though perhaps education has a different meaning in Pakistan. The final irony is that this poster has previously potrayed himself as a great democrat and broad minded thinker on this message board!
Thanks for publishing this piece of hate speech. It is similar to the kind of articles the nazis wrote about Jews amd may even be a rewrite of one of those articles. The most amazing thing is that it is published in a major pak national newspaper on the OpEd page. You will never find its equivalent in any indian newspaper.
It shows that *educated * pakistanis are brought up to think of hindus as sub-human (or super-human!) but defintely not as plain human beings. The really sad thing is that these thoughts are coming from pakistanis with some education, though perhaps education has a different meaning in Pakistan. The final irony is that this poster has previously potrayed himself as a great democrat and broad minded thinker on this message board!
#59 Posted by shammi on February 12, 2002 11:34:14 am
Re: Dost-Mittar
``...Are you certain that it is he who said this and not some of his underlings? ...``
Yes, indeed it was him. The electorate is not all that dumb after all.
``...Are you certain that it is he who said this and not some of his underlings? ...``
Yes, indeed it was him. The electorate is not all that dumb after all.
#60 Posted by rsaxena on February 12, 2002 11:34:14 am
re: asim hayat
{The writer is a well known journalist}
...yeah, that`s why his name isn`t attached...
you guys are pathetic...get a backbone and an identity...living in perpetual paranoia and inferiority complex viz-a-viz India isn`t becoming of a sovereign nation...
{The writer is a well known journalist}
...yeah, that`s why his name isn`t attached...
you guys are pathetic...get a backbone and an identity...living in perpetual paranoia and inferiority complex viz-a-viz India isn`t becoming of a sovereign nation...
#61 Posted by cutandpaste on February 12, 2002 11:34:14 am
Oh, the Heartache! They Want Cupid Banished
By SOMINI SENGUPTA
The Associated Press
A party member smashed an advertisement for a Valentine celebration.
The Associated Press
Facing threats from a radical Hindu political party over Valentine`s Day, card-shop owners like Kalyanji M. Chheda have produced ``Love Day`` cards, with no mention of Cupid or St. Valentine. The party, Shiv Sena, views Cupid as a symbol of the West`s corrupting influence.
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=170510
MUMBAI, Feb. 11 — In the Indian imagination, this has long been the place where women could wear short skirts and dance with men. where lovers could take in the lights along Marine Drive and life could be like the movies.
Today, Bombay is called Mumbai, and there is a red rage brewing over Valentine`s Day.
The Shiv Sena, the radical Hindu political party that is a powerful force in the city and state governments, sees in Cupid the very avatar of Western culture, a symbol of its corrupting influence over traditional Indian society.
Last year, supporters of Shiv Sena — literally, the Army of Shivaji, the 17th-century Hindu king who warred against several Muslim rulers — stormed shops that carried Valentine`s Day greeting cards, overturned display racks and made bonfires on the streets.
This year, Sena leaders issued another death warrant of sorts against Valentine`s Day, calling it a frivolous occasion that sullies Indian values and gives young people another excuse to spend their parents` money.
Pramod Navalkar, a Shiv Sena man and the former culture minister of the state of Maharashtra, of which this is the capital, declared: ``Drinking, dancing. Drinking, dancing. These two D`s are destroying us. If our boys go and demonstrate in front of those shops, we cannot stop them. We have not asked them to demonstrate, but they might do.``
``What you need,`` he added, ``is to create some public opinion on this.``
Taliban of the Hindu right, guardians of Indian values, or killjoys of the Bombay spirit? Public opinion on the Shiv Sena here is by no means uniform.
What is certain is that their crusade against Cupid is merely the latest sign of a creeping puritanism that aims to make this India metropolis less freewheeling.
The passion over Feb. 14 is just the latest effort by the Shiv Sena, a coalition partner in the national government led by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party, to weigh in on Bombay`s cultural life.
In recent years, their supporters have raised a ruckus over a Muslim artist`s nude portrayal of a Hindu goddess, disrupted the concert of a Pakistani ghazal singer, and stormed movie theaters to protest a lesbian relationship portrayed in a film.
During his tenure as state culture minister, Mr. Navalkar campaigned against park benches that could encourage public cuddling; he urged that single seats be installed instead.
To hear Mr. Navalkar tell it, the Sena`s grievances cover a gamut of social ills.
Mr. Navalkar is opposed to the proliferation of Western clothes; soon, he fears, Indian women will have forgotten how to wear the traditional sari. He is also against the proliferation of restaurants, for fear they will deprive long-married couples of the one thing they have to talk about every day — shopping for fish and cooking.
``The lifestyle has totally changed,`` Mr. Navalkar lamented. ``Gradually this Westernization has grabbed the entire society.``
Such attitudes have more than a few detractors among those who regard the Shiv Sena`s latest vendetta against Cupid as a political gimmick. One of those is Kiran Nagarkar, a Bombay-born playwright and novelist, who has felt the wrath of Shiv Sena himself.
``Thuggishness is their primary objective,`` he said of the party`s campaign. ``They don`t have any causes left.``
Despite the Shiv Sena`s best efforts, Bombay remains, by many accounts, the most do-as-you-dare, most cosmopolitan of Indian cities, a place where women can, for the most part, safely walk the streets at night and order a gin without turning heads.
But card makers and sellers today cannot help but pay heed to the Shiv Sena campaign. Some in Bombay, as well as in nearby Pune and a few other Indian cities, have been forced to reduce or stop the production of Valentine`s Day cards altogether. One card shop chain, Archie`s, has asked the Indian Supreme Court to issue an order preventing a repeat of last year`s mayhem.
Kalyanji M. Chheda, owner of Satyam Collection card shop, in the heart of Bombay, around the corner from Eros Cinema, has mounted a smaller-than-usual Valentine`s Day spread this year. But he would not drop it altogether.
How could he? Last year, he sold 50,000 Valentine`s Day cards, just short of New Year`s Day card sales of 75,000; Diwali and Eid, the largest Hindu and Muslim holidays here, saw card sales of 50,000 and 25,000.
This year, to take some of the Shiv Sena heat off, the card-makers association has proposed thinly disguised Indian alternatives to Valentine`s Day.
There are new ``love cards,`` affectionate missives adorned with red hearts and pink roses but with no mention of that foreign interloper, St. Valentine, or his unclothed sidekick, Cupid.
Card-makers say they also hope their new invention, Prem Din Utsav, or Love Day Celebration, will soothe even the Sena`s hearts.
But the Sena`s threats have hardly erased the commercial promise of Valentine`s Day.
At least one nightclub is having a Valentine`s Day party. Newspapers are chock-full of ads for Valentine`s Day movie screenings, vacation packages and specials on Eric Segal novels.
The other day, at St. Xavier`s College, a hip and prestigious Jesuit-run school where the prom was recently banned, students leaned against the cool stone pillars and yawned at the Sena`s threats over Valentine`s Day.
``Maybe because we`re becoming more globalized they`re afraid of it becoming more American,`` said a fourth-year student who would give only her first name, Karen. ``This is their inferiority complex way of preserving it
By SOMINI SENGUPTA
The Associated Press
A party member smashed an advertisement for a Valentine celebration.
The Associated Press
Facing threats from a radical Hindu political party over Valentine`s Day, card-shop owners like Kalyanji M. Chheda have produced ``Love Day`` cards, with no mention of Cupid or St. Valentine. The party, Shiv Sena, views Cupid as a symbol of the West`s corrupting influence.
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=170510
MUMBAI, Feb. 11 — In the Indian imagination, this has long been the place where women could wear short skirts and dance with men. where lovers could take in the lights along Marine Drive and life could be like the movies.
Today, Bombay is called Mumbai, and there is a red rage brewing over Valentine`s Day.
The Shiv Sena, the radical Hindu political party that is a powerful force in the city and state governments, sees in Cupid the very avatar of Western culture, a symbol of its corrupting influence over traditional Indian society.
Last year, supporters of Shiv Sena — literally, the Army of Shivaji, the 17th-century Hindu king who warred against several Muslim rulers — stormed shops that carried Valentine`s Day greeting cards, overturned display racks and made bonfires on the streets.
This year, Sena leaders issued another death warrant of sorts against Valentine`s Day, calling it a frivolous occasion that sullies Indian values and gives young people another excuse to spend their parents` money.
Pramod Navalkar, a Shiv Sena man and the former culture minister of the state of Maharashtra, of which this is the capital, declared: ``Drinking, dancing. Drinking, dancing. These two D`s are destroying us. If our boys go and demonstrate in front of those shops, we cannot stop them. We have not asked them to demonstrate, but they might do.``
``What you need,`` he added, ``is to create some public opinion on this.``
Taliban of the Hindu right, guardians of Indian values, or killjoys of the Bombay spirit? Public opinion on the Shiv Sena here is by no means uniform.
What is certain is that their crusade against Cupid is merely the latest sign of a creeping puritanism that aims to make this India metropolis less freewheeling.
The passion over Feb. 14 is just the latest effort by the Shiv Sena, a coalition partner in the national government led by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party, to weigh in on Bombay`s cultural life.
In recent years, their supporters have raised a ruckus over a Muslim artist`s nude portrayal of a Hindu goddess, disrupted the concert of a Pakistani ghazal singer, and stormed movie theaters to protest a lesbian relationship portrayed in a film.
During his tenure as state culture minister, Mr. Navalkar campaigned against park benches that could encourage public cuddling; he urged that single seats be installed instead.
To hear Mr. Navalkar tell it, the Sena`s grievances cover a gamut of social ills.
Mr. Navalkar is opposed to the proliferation of Western clothes; soon, he fears, Indian women will have forgotten how to wear the traditional sari. He is also against the proliferation of restaurants, for fear they will deprive long-married couples of the one thing they have to talk about every day — shopping for fish and cooking.
``The lifestyle has totally changed,`` Mr. Navalkar lamented. ``Gradually this Westernization has grabbed the entire society.``
Such attitudes have more than a few detractors among those who regard the Shiv Sena`s latest vendetta against Cupid as a political gimmick. One of those is Kiran Nagarkar, a Bombay-born playwright and novelist, who has felt the wrath of Shiv Sena himself.
``Thuggishness is their primary objective,`` he said of the party`s campaign. ``They don`t have any causes left.``
Despite the Shiv Sena`s best efforts, Bombay remains, by many accounts, the most do-as-you-dare, most cosmopolitan of Indian cities, a place where women can, for the most part, safely walk the streets at night and order a gin without turning heads.
But card makers and sellers today cannot help but pay heed to the Shiv Sena campaign. Some in Bombay, as well as in nearby Pune and a few other Indian cities, have been forced to reduce or stop the production of Valentine`s Day cards altogether. One card shop chain, Archie`s, has asked the Indian Supreme Court to issue an order preventing a repeat of last year`s mayhem.
Kalyanji M. Chheda, owner of Satyam Collection card shop, in the heart of Bombay, around the corner from Eros Cinema, has mounted a smaller-than-usual Valentine`s Day spread this year. But he would not drop it altogether.
How could he? Last year, he sold 50,000 Valentine`s Day cards, just short of New Year`s Day card sales of 75,000; Diwali and Eid, the largest Hindu and Muslim holidays here, saw card sales of 50,000 and 25,000.
This year, to take some of the Shiv Sena heat off, the card-makers association has proposed thinly disguised Indian alternatives to Valentine`s Day.
There are new ``love cards,`` affectionate missives adorned with red hearts and pink roses but with no mention of that foreign interloper, St. Valentine, or his unclothed sidekick, Cupid.
Card-makers say they also hope their new invention, Prem Din Utsav, or Love Day Celebration, will soothe even the Sena`s hearts.
But the Sena`s threats have hardly erased the commercial promise of Valentine`s Day.
At least one nightclub is having a Valentine`s Day party. Newspapers are chock-full of ads for Valentine`s Day movie screenings, vacation packages and specials on Eric Segal novels.
The other day, at St. Xavier`s College, a hip and prestigious Jesuit-run school where the prom was recently banned, students leaned against the cool stone pillars and yawned at the Sena`s threats over Valentine`s Day.
``Maybe because we`re becoming more globalized they`re afraid of it becoming more American,`` said a fourth-year student who would give only her first name, Karen. ``This is their inferiority complex way of preserving it
#62 Posted by cutandpaste on February 12, 2002 11:34:14 am
Sena-BJP combine retains Mumbai, Thane civic bodies
Apparently cashing on the national security issue, Shiv Sena-Bharatiya Janata Party saffron combine have braved the anti-incumbency factor and retained prestigious Mumbai and Thane civic bodies, while ruling Congress and Nationalist Congress Party suffered a setback for entering the fray separately.
In the 227-member Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation, out of the 223 results declared, Shiv Sena has bagged 99 seats and BJP 35 seats, while Congress managed 59 seats and NCP 11 seats.
Samajwadi Party got 10 seats and independents bagged 9 seats.
In neighbouring Thane, Shiv Sena bagged 44 seats, BJP 11 seats, as against 22 seats of NCP and 10 seats of Congress.
The decision of the Sena and BJP combine to give united fight paid rich dividends as the alliance wrested the Congress stronghold of Nasik.
Of the 81 results declared for the 108 civic body, Sena has made a significant gain capturing 31 seats followed by BJP with 20 seats, while Congress has so far picked up only 10 seats in a township hitherto known as its bastion.
NCP also could not make any dent in the constituency, from where party`s mercurial leader and Deputy Chief Minister Chhagan Bhujbal hails.
In Solapur, Congress has gained marginally in its stronghold bagging 41 seats followed by BJP with 29 seats, NCP with 12 seats.
Encouraged by its success in the December two municipal council polls, NCP, which had decided to contest on its own, has failed to make much of an impact barring Ulhasnagar.
The swing in satellite town civic polls in favour of NCP is also mostly attributed to the merger of Ulhasnagar People`s Party founded by TADA-accused Suresh (Pappu) Kalani.
In Nagpur, where saffron parties fought separately, Congress was able to put up a considerable fight.
Of the results available for the 136-member corporation, despite the scandals of alleged sex abuse which haunted the party leadership on the eve of the polls, Congress has notched up 16 as against 24 by BJP and one by Shiv Sena, while NCP has bagged four seats.
BSP has picked up three seats while SP bagged one. In NCP chief Sharad Pawar`s pocket borough Pimpri-Chinchwad, the party emerged as the single largest outfit with 36 seats.
Congress made substantial gains winning 31 seats followed by BJP with 13 seats, Shiv Sena 12 seats and independents two seats.
In Amravati, Congress has bagged 21 seats, followed by Sena 10 seats and BJP 12 seats.
In Akola, which went to the civic polls for the first time, Sena and BJP have forged ahead with 13 and nine seats respectively. Congress has bagged nine, while Bharipa Bahujan Mahasangh has bagged six.
Apparently cashing on the national security issue, Shiv Sena-Bharatiya Janata Party saffron combine have braved the anti-incumbency factor and retained prestigious Mumbai and Thane civic bodies, while ruling Congress and Nationalist Congress Party suffered a setback for entering the fray separately.
In the 227-member Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation, out of the 223 results declared, Shiv Sena has bagged 99 seats and BJP 35 seats, while Congress managed 59 seats and NCP 11 seats.
Samajwadi Party got 10 seats and independents bagged 9 seats.
In neighbouring Thane, Shiv Sena bagged 44 seats, BJP 11 seats, as against 22 seats of NCP and 10 seats of Congress.
The decision of the Sena and BJP combine to give united fight paid rich dividends as the alliance wrested the Congress stronghold of Nasik.
Of the 81 results declared for the 108 civic body, Sena has made a significant gain capturing 31 seats followed by BJP with 20 seats, while Congress has so far picked up only 10 seats in a township hitherto known as its bastion.
NCP also could not make any dent in the constituency, from where party`s mercurial leader and Deputy Chief Minister Chhagan Bhujbal hails.
In Solapur, Congress has gained marginally in its stronghold bagging 41 seats followed by BJP with 29 seats, NCP with 12 seats.
Encouraged by its success in the December two municipal council polls, NCP, which had decided to contest on its own, has failed to make much of an impact barring Ulhasnagar.
The swing in satellite town civic polls in favour of NCP is also mostly attributed to the merger of Ulhasnagar People`s Party founded by TADA-accused Suresh (Pappu) Kalani.
In Nagpur, where saffron parties fought separately, Congress was able to put up a considerable fight.
Of the results available for the 136-member corporation, despite the scandals of alleged sex abuse which haunted the party leadership on the eve of the polls, Congress has notched up 16 as against 24 by BJP and one by Shiv Sena, while NCP has bagged four seats.
BSP has picked up three seats while SP bagged one. In NCP chief Sharad Pawar`s pocket borough Pimpri-Chinchwad, the party emerged as the single largest outfit with 36 seats.
Congress made substantial gains winning 31 seats followed by BJP with 13 seats, Shiv Sena 12 seats and independents two seats.
In Amravati, Congress has bagged 21 seats, followed by Sena 10 seats and BJP 12 seats.
In Akola, which went to the civic polls for the first time, Sena and BJP have forged ahead with 13 and nine seats respectively. Congress has bagged nine, while Bharipa Bahujan Mahasangh has bagged six.
#64 Posted by sadna on February 12, 2002 1:46:53 pm
dost-mittar #64
``It seems that Manmohan Singh was done in more by his own party rather than for an allegedly misquoted statement. It still doesn`t reflect very well on the kind of democracy we have in India. ``
dost-mittar, thats why I provided three references, so that you cannot say `misquote`. And there is no conspiracy against Manmohan Singh, the talents of people like himself and Jaswant Singh who cannot win in Lok Sabha due to party and/or voter disaffection are made available by their parties through the Rajya Sabha.
Manmohan Singh ought to have made a greater effort to garner support in his own party, and the Congress party should offer a structure for this sort of career advance, based on more objective vote-pulling criteria than mere vote-pulling dynasty/personality. Its no surprise that this sort of functioning has put the Cong at a disadvantage wrt the better (in comparison) organized and more democratic BJP.
There is no good democracy or bad democracy, there is only absence of democracy (which means you cannot answer for the future whatever you do today) or an evolving or regressing democary which holds some promise for the future. I think things are evolving in India.
``It seems that Manmohan Singh was done in more by his own party rather than for an allegedly misquoted statement. It still doesn`t reflect very well on the kind of democracy we have in India. ``
dost-mittar, thats why I provided three references, so that you cannot say `misquote`. And there is no conspiracy against Manmohan Singh, the talents of people like himself and Jaswant Singh who cannot win in Lok Sabha due to party and/or voter disaffection are made available by their parties through the Rajya Sabha.
Manmohan Singh ought to have made a greater effort to garner support in his own party, and the Congress party should offer a structure for this sort of career advance, based on more objective vote-pulling criteria than mere vote-pulling dynasty/personality. Its no surprise that this sort of functioning has put the Cong at a disadvantage wrt the better (in comparison) organized and more democratic BJP.
There is no good democracy or bad democracy, there is only absence of democracy (which means you cannot answer for the future whatever you do today) or an evolving or regressing democary which holds some promise for the future. I think things are evolving in India.
#65 Posted by sadna on February 12, 2002 5:37:34 pm
If you are a fan of Jaswant Singh:)
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3C16H5JXC
#66 Posted by soundmeister on February 13, 2002 7:38:07 am
Reply Sadna #68:
``If you are a fan of Jaswant Singh:)
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3C16H5JXC``
Jaswant Singh has FANS? NOW i`ve seen everything :))))
``If you are a fan of Jaswant Singh:)
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3C16H5JXC``
Jaswant Singh has FANS? NOW i`ve seen everything :))))
#67 Posted by sadna on February 13, 2002 12:29:52 pm
soundmeister #67
Well, his comments on `Europe`s experiment with federalism` and Indians being able to `count 650m votes effectively` are worth a few electrical appliances :).
Well, his comments on `Europe`s experiment with federalism` and Indians being able to `count 650m votes effectively` are worth a few electrical appliances :).
#68 Posted by sadna on February 13, 2002 12:33:32 pm
PS:
dost-mittar, Manmohan Singh is currently leader of the Opposition in the Rajya Sabha.
dost-mittar, Manmohan Singh is currently leader of the Opposition in the Rajya Sabha.
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