Ras Siddiqui February 22, 2002
#1 Posted by Truth on February 23, 2002 2:05:11 am
1. It takes only 5 or 10 crazy people to kill an innocent man.
2. The killing of Staines in India was also the work of a crazy individual.
3. However, no individual is completely divorced from his surroundings - the Pearl killings points to problems with Islamic fundamentalism and the Staines killings to problems with Hindu nationalism.
4. Pakistan needs to ponder why known murderers and kidnappers like Azhar or Salahuddin are allowed to address public gatherings and operate openly.
5. Musharaf needs to speak clearly for a secular state - he needs to stop paying lipservice to an Islamic Republic. The language of an Islamic Republic gives a lever to Islamic fundamentalists to question attempts to modify anti-blasphemy laws etc.
6. Benazir needs to stop wearing the stupid headscarve. Many Indians remember a young girl in Simla in 1972 wearing jeans. Stop pandering to religious conservatives. If she wears a headscarve because she wants to, its fine but I think she is pandering. Hasina Wahed in Bangladesh is wearing some stupid headband under her sari pallav. Stop all this nonsense.
7. Stop requiring the President of Pakistan to swear ``I am a Muslim`` when he takes his oath as Musharaf had to do. Allow Cowasjee to dream of being President. It is enough to swear ``I am an honorable man/woman``.
8. Stop believing in Islamic manifest destiny. It is NOT progress to institute Sharia to replace secular law.
2. The killing of Staines in India was also the work of a crazy individual.
3. However, no individual is completely divorced from his surroundings - the Pearl killings points to problems with Islamic fundamentalism and the Staines killings to problems with Hindu nationalism.
4. Pakistan needs to ponder why known murderers and kidnappers like Azhar or Salahuddin are allowed to address public gatherings and operate openly.
5. Musharaf needs to speak clearly for a secular state - he needs to stop paying lipservice to an Islamic Republic. The language of an Islamic Republic gives a lever to Islamic fundamentalists to question attempts to modify anti-blasphemy laws etc.
6. Benazir needs to stop wearing the stupid headscarve. Many Indians remember a young girl in Simla in 1972 wearing jeans. Stop pandering to religious conservatives. If she wears a headscarve because she wants to, its fine but I think she is pandering. Hasina Wahed in Bangladesh is wearing some stupid headband under her sari pallav. Stop all this nonsense.
7. Stop requiring the President of Pakistan to swear ``I am a Muslim`` when he takes his oath as Musharaf had to do. Allow Cowasjee to dream of being President. It is enough to swear ``I am an honorable man/woman``.
8. Stop believing in Islamic manifest destiny. It is NOT progress to institute Sharia to replace secular law.
#2 Posted by temporal on February 23, 2002 7:19:18 am
Ras:
On FIRST AND FOREMOST
[...First and foremost, let us say a prayer for the soul of this man. Husband, soon to be father, son and (if you will allow me) fellow American, journalist and human being, Daniel Pearl it now appears has met a tragic and brutal end...]
‘First and foremost’...EID GREETINGS to those who celebrate Eid...
...second...and am not being unduly skeptical here (nor sarcastic, ferozk)...sad, tragic and senseless as his end apparently was...this was part of the ‘risks’ involved in his chosen profession...much like fire-fighters, police(wo)man etc.
...as one who uses words as tools I feel one must be MORE careful in selecting words...
...sticking close to roughly the same geographical area where this senseless murder occured...i would use the ‘first and foremost’ expression without any qualms or hesitation FIRST for:
---the civilians killed (clustered?!) in the indiscriminate leveling of afghan real estate
---the civilians killed in IOK
---the civilians killed in POK
---the bantustanized civilian palestinians killed by the ‘brave’ IDF
---the civilians killed in Israel
...enough...think you got the drift!
[...to the point where I feel like apologizing to my friends,fellow Americans ...]
...apologizing?...why did you have a hand in this fiasco?...i suspect not!...but if you do feel that strongly then by all means go ahead and apologize...AFTER...you have apologized to other innocent civilians caught in the crossfire...they had relationships too and when alive were as much part of this world of ours...
[...Danny Pearl will be missed by many people especially his family and friends. He should never have been there, doing what he was doing...]
...yes...even more so...i suspect because he was a western/american journalist...and I know you do not say this...but I want to highlight this...his death ...gruesome and tragic as it was in no way takes any precedence over any other single death of a innocent civilian dying in afghanistan, kashmirs, mid-east...
[...Danny’s death is one more reason for humanity to stand together now and take this unholy problem by the horns...]
...this unholy problem?...as I wrote yesterday in the preceding board:
``tahmed321 #50 and ras siddiqui:
…I have a feeling the dec 13 attack on the indian parliament, the shifting of venue for pakistan west indies test matches, kidnapping and murder of daniel pearl and the resumption of targetted killing of shia professionals in karachi can be better understood in the light of an on going turf battle between the coalition of hardliners and moderates in pakistan (for lack of a better word)…it is not entirely the ‘curse of mullahs’ as you say…there are various other factors involved including our apathy..let us not forget that…``
...this is part of an ongoing turf battle for the prized real estate...you know who the players are...all I am suggesting is we should not be sitting on the fence...we should overcome our legendary apathy...and do something...anything!...lest by default we lose this battle too...for if we do...you will also lose your cherished claim to that hypenated identity...
regards,
temporal
On FIRST AND FOREMOST
[...First and foremost, let us say a prayer for the soul of this man. Husband, soon to be father, son and (if you will allow me) fellow American, journalist and human being, Daniel Pearl it now appears has met a tragic and brutal end...]
‘First and foremost’...EID GREETINGS to those who celebrate Eid...
...second...and am not being unduly skeptical here (nor sarcastic, ferozk)...sad, tragic and senseless as his end apparently was...this was part of the ‘risks’ involved in his chosen profession...much like fire-fighters, police(wo)man etc.
...as one who uses words as tools I feel one must be MORE careful in selecting words...
...sticking close to roughly the same geographical area where this senseless murder occured...i would use the ‘first and foremost’ expression without any qualms or hesitation FIRST for:
---the civilians killed (clustered?!) in the indiscriminate leveling of afghan real estate
---the civilians killed in IOK
---the civilians killed in POK
---the bantustanized civilian palestinians killed by the ‘brave’ IDF
---the civilians killed in Israel
...enough...think you got the drift!
[...to the point where I feel like apologizing to my friends,fellow Americans ...]
...apologizing?...why did you have a hand in this fiasco?...i suspect not!...but if you do feel that strongly then by all means go ahead and apologize...AFTER...you have apologized to other innocent civilians caught in the crossfire...they had relationships too and when alive were as much part of this world of ours...
[...Danny Pearl will be missed by many people especially his family and friends. He should never have been there, doing what he was doing...]
...yes...even more so...i suspect because he was a western/american journalist...and I know you do not say this...but I want to highlight this...his death ...gruesome and tragic as it was in no way takes any precedence over any other single death of a innocent civilian dying in afghanistan, kashmirs, mid-east...
[...Danny’s death is one more reason for humanity to stand together now and take this unholy problem by the horns...]
...this unholy problem?...as I wrote yesterday in the preceding board:
``tahmed321 #50 and ras siddiqui:
…I have a feeling the dec 13 attack on the indian parliament, the shifting of venue for pakistan west indies test matches, kidnapping and murder of daniel pearl and the resumption of targetted killing of shia professionals in karachi can be better understood in the light of an on going turf battle between the coalition of hardliners and moderates in pakistan (for lack of a better word)…it is not entirely the ‘curse of mullahs’ as you say…there are various other factors involved including our apathy..let us not forget that…``
...this is part of an ongoing turf battle for the prized real estate...you know who the players are...all I am suggesting is we should not be sitting on the fence...we should overcome our legendary apathy...and do something...anything!...lest by default we lose this battle too...for if we do...you will also lose your cherished claim to that hypenated identity...
regards,
temporal
#3 Posted by ferozk on February 23, 2002 9:50:10 am
Re: Ras
Pakistani society needs to develop a sense of tolerance for differing opinions. Pakistani society needs to understand that violence is not the best way to solve political problems. Pakistani society needs to be de-brutalized from the years of politically motivated indoctorination of intolerance.
Musharraf, in his Jan 12, 2002 speech has outlined a vision of Pakistan, but that vision means a war with the forces, which will struggle against that particular vision.
Secularism in Pakistan will not be attained by making a speech, but by fighting for its implementation and above all else, teaching Pakistani society how to be tolerant. Musharraf has now started a process, whose only logical end is that either Musharraf will prevail or he will fail.
As far Musharraf is concerned, failure is not an option for him or for Pakistan and he now has to see this thing through to its logical end, because now that war has started, there can be no subsitute less than a total victory.
Pakistani and Musharraf need to see this thing to the end. There is no turning back now...
Ciao
Pakistani society needs to develop a sense of tolerance for differing opinions. Pakistani society needs to understand that violence is not the best way to solve political problems. Pakistani society needs to be de-brutalized from the years of politically motivated indoctorination of intolerance.
Musharraf, in his Jan 12, 2002 speech has outlined a vision of Pakistan, but that vision means a war with the forces, which will struggle against that particular vision.
Secularism in Pakistan will not be attained by making a speech, but by fighting for its implementation and above all else, teaching Pakistani society how to be tolerant. Musharraf has now started a process, whose only logical end is that either Musharraf will prevail or he will fail.
As far Musharraf is concerned, failure is not an option for him or for Pakistan and he now has to see this thing through to its logical end, because now that war has started, there can be no subsitute less than a total victory.
Pakistani and Musharraf need to see this thing to the end. There is no turning back now...
Ciao
#4 Posted by ferozk on February 23, 2002 10:01:32 am
Re: Truth # 1
Sorry for re-posting twice in such a short span...
Truth, Benazir`s white dupatta/head scarf has nothing to do with Islam.
If you will notice, the color of the said scarf is always white and in Sindh, where she hails from, that is a sign for revenge. Sindhi women wear a white dupatta, when they wish to avenge a death in their family and as as long as they have not had their revenge, they will wear a white dupatta. Bhutto wants her revenge on the army for killing her father and once she does, you will notice that the color white will invariably disappear from her head.
I have lived in Sindh. The color white is a sign of revenge in rural Sindh and it has noting to do with Islam. Benazir is a political creature of opporunity and her interest in Islam is limited to how she can, like other politicans in Pakistan, exploit Islam for her own political ends to further her own vanity and political ambitions.
Ciao
Sorry for re-posting twice in such a short span...
Truth, Benazir`s white dupatta/head scarf has nothing to do with Islam.
If you will notice, the color of the said scarf is always white and in Sindh, where she hails from, that is a sign for revenge. Sindhi women wear a white dupatta, when they wish to avenge a death in their family and as as long as they have not had their revenge, they will wear a white dupatta. Bhutto wants her revenge on the army for killing her father and once she does, you will notice that the color white will invariably disappear from her head.
I have lived in Sindh. The color white is a sign of revenge in rural Sindh and it has noting to do with Islam. Benazir is a political creature of opporunity and her interest in Islam is limited to how she can, like other politicans in Pakistan, exploit Islam for her own political ends to further her own vanity and political ambitions.
Ciao
#6 Posted by rsaxena on February 23, 2002 1:20:12 pm
{{ On the one hand they have sympathy for the Kashmiris and Palestinians and on the other there are now a lawless bunch of well-armed people in Pakistan, some with claims of divine support. }}
these people were created by pakistan, first to fight in aghanistan, then in kashmir, and later apparently in places like checnya...to mess in other people`s affairs...well now they`re so many of them that they are coming home and will unleash on pakistan what it sought to wreak upon others...
...and the sad part is there is nary a pakistani willing to denounce jihad everywhere - including kashmir - even now....there is always some justification, some qualification, some finger-pointing, excuse to not do so...
these people were created by pakistan, first to fight in aghanistan, then in kashmir, and later apparently in places like checnya...to mess in other people`s affairs...well now they`re so many of them that they are coming home and will unleash on pakistan what it sought to wreak upon others...
...and the sad part is there is nary a pakistani willing to denounce jihad everywhere - including kashmir - even now....there is always some justification, some qualification, some finger-pointing, excuse to not do so...
#7 Posted by AlephNull on February 23, 2002 1:20:12 pm
This article is a disgrace. It exudes a nauseating Pakistani-American self-pity, while denying that the Pakistani state and its fellow-travellers bear the major responsibility for the plight of the nation and its people, and for crimes committed on its soil.
The Soviet occupation of Afghanistan is still being trotted out as an excuse for Pakistan`s current lawlessness. The Soviets signed the Geneva Accords in April 1988, despite Mard-e-Momin Zia-ul-Haq`s stalling tactics, and the last Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan crossed the Amur Darya at Termez in February 1989, fully THIRTEEN YEARS ago. If Pakistanis were unable until recently to gracefully shut down their involvement in Afghanistan and all that it entailed for their domestic politics, it is because they actively CHOSE - at the highest level of the army and the state, and with the connivance of influential segments of their society - to stay involved, sodomizing Afghanistan with a foisted regressive regime more savage than any that that unhappy land saw during the Soviet occupation. All this with the goal of Pakistan`s acquiring an empire in Central Asia and living off unearned oil wealth like the repulsive gulf oil sheikdoms. It had nothing to do with an `unfortunate failure to plan proper closure`, at least on Pakistan`s part.
Those who complain about ``Pakistanis being used as doormats in America`s fight to save the free world``, ought to remember that the Pakistani state at the time was only too eager to be trodden on. It had no qualms about suckling at the teat of American largesse - the complaints about poisoned milk, mingling with shrill cries of abandonment, coming only after the flow stopped. Even now - in the aftermath of September 11 - Pakistan`s strategic visionaries have been observed waxing lyrical at the prospect of Pakistan once more adopting ``the role it plays best``: that of frontline state for the US. The bottom line is that Pakistan`s relationship with the US during the Soviet war in Afghanistan was a consensual one that it entered into of its own free will as a sovereign nation, presumably well aware of the consequences; and with no promise of permanent sustenance from the US. The US owes Pakistan nothing.
The ``dangerous criminals who have used the masquerade of religion for too long`` operated with the support or full connivance of Pakistani state organs and the present Generalissimo, who found them useful, nay essential, to their campaigns in Afghanistan and in Indian Jammu and Kashmir. The very presence in Pakistan of Omar Sheikh, and of others of his ilk, was being denied by the Great Dictator`s mouthpieces as recently as last month when the Indians demanded their extradition. Those who let these criminals run loose or actively abetted them in the past are fully as culpable as those who actually wielded the knife. The irony of suggesting Pakistan`s Military as the best agents to repair the damage done to Civil Society by the Afghan War is apparently lost on the author - these are the very people who let the situation reach its present pass.
As for ``sympathy for the Kashmiris and the Palestinians``, the world has had an opportunity to observe in detail the results of Pakistanis` sympathies for the Afghans. It is questionable if the much-vaunted ``sympathy for the Kashmiris`` runs as far as the Kashmiri Pandits whose throats were slit by terrorists supplied, armed and trained by the Pakistani state. I suppose that being non-Muslims, they do not count as Kashmiris in the eyes of unctuous hypocrites who mouth platitudes about `freedom struggles`. It is high time that Pakistanis ceased fancying themselves as the vanguard of the Islamic world, appointed from on high to right real or imagined wrongs against their co-religionists everywhere; kept their unwanted sympathies at home, and paid some attention to the mundane and unglamorous tasks involved in building a civil society and a nation.
In sum, this article belies its title. It draws no useful lessons from the senseless murder of Daniel Pearl, or all the various warning events which preceded it. Accurate and honest diagnosis, and willingness to accept responsibility for one`s own actions- the first step towards a cure - is something that this article signally fails to provide.
The Soviet occupation of Afghanistan is still being trotted out as an excuse for Pakistan`s current lawlessness. The Soviets signed the Geneva Accords in April 1988, despite Mard-e-Momin Zia-ul-Haq`s stalling tactics, and the last Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan crossed the Amur Darya at Termez in February 1989, fully THIRTEEN YEARS ago. If Pakistanis were unable until recently to gracefully shut down their involvement in Afghanistan and all that it entailed for their domestic politics, it is because they actively CHOSE - at the highest level of the army and the state, and with the connivance of influential segments of their society - to stay involved, sodomizing Afghanistan with a foisted regressive regime more savage than any that that unhappy land saw during the Soviet occupation. All this with the goal of Pakistan`s acquiring an empire in Central Asia and living off unearned oil wealth like the repulsive gulf oil sheikdoms. It had nothing to do with an `unfortunate failure to plan proper closure`, at least on Pakistan`s part.
Those who complain about ``Pakistanis being used as doormats in America`s fight to save the free world``, ought to remember that the Pakistani state at the time was only too eager to be trodden on. It had no qualms about suckling at the teat of American largesse - the complaints about poisoned milk, mingling with shrill cries of abandonment, coming only after the flow stopped. Even now - in the aftermath of September 11 - Pakistan`s strategic visionaries have been observed waxing lyrical at the prospect of Pakistan once more adopting ``the role it plays best``: that of frontline state for the US. The bottom line is that Pakistan`s relationship with the US during the Soviet war in Afghanistan was a consensual one that it entered into of its own free will as a sovereign nation, presumably well aware of the consequences; and with no promise of permanent sustenance from the US. The US owes Pakistan nothing.
The ``dangerous criminals who have used the masquerade of religion for too long`` operated with the support or full connivance of Pakistani state organs and the present Generalissimo, who found them useful, nay essential, to their campaigns in Afghanistan and in Indian Jammu and Kashmir. The very presence in Pakistan of Omar Sheikh, and of others of his ilk, was being denied by the Great Dictator`s mouthpieces as recently as last month when the Indians demanded their extradition. Those who let these criminals run loose or actively abetted them in the past are fully as culpable as those who actually wielded the knife. The irony of suggesting Pakistan`s Military as the best agents to repair the damage done to Civil Society by the Afghan War is apparently lost on the author - these are the very people who let the situation reach its present pass.
As for ``sympathy for the Kashmiris and the Palestinians``, the world has had an opportunity to observe in detail the results of Pakistanis` sympathies for the Afghans. It is questionable if the much-vaunted ``sympathy for the Kashmiris`` runs as far as the Kashmiri Pandits whose throats were slit by terrorists supplied, armed and trained by the Pakistani state. I suppose that being non-Muslims, they do not count as Kashmiris in the eyes of unctuous hypocrites who mouth platitudes about `freedom struggles`. It is high time that Pakistanis ceased fancying themselves as the vanguard of the Islamic world, appointed from on high to right real or imagined wrongs against their co-religionists everywhere; kept their unwanted sympathies at home, and paid some attention to the mundane and unglamorous tasks involved in building a civil society and a nation.
In sum, this article belies its title. It draws no useful lessons from the senseless murder of Daniel Pearl, or all the various warning events which preceded it. Accurate and honest diagnosis, and willingness to accept responsibility for one`s own actions- the first step towards a cure - is something that this article signally fails to provide.
#8 Posted by nameless on February 23, 2002 1:20:12 pm
Truth etc
why this India centric reflections. Who the effing hell cares if India goes down the drain. Just beacuase staines was killed in India doesnot mean Pearl has to be in Pakistan. Just beacuse India and Indian wallow in *hit it does not mean Pakistan has to do the same.
The killing of Pearl was a dastardly act. An act for which I doubt if Pakistan will be forgiven for a long time.
This is the end of the road for the jehadis, the lilitants, the beardos, fundos, the ISI and the army in Pakistan and the elite.
The elite and the progeny of the gfailed Mughals and the nabobs etc have failed Pakistan like their forefathers did earlier on.
Time that this failed establishement of Pakistan was dumped into the fires of hell.
Pakistan has not been served well by this brainless inbred incestuous 5000l.
Where will the new rulers come from.
why this India centric reflections. Who the effing hell cares if India goes down the drain. Just beacuase staines was killed in India doesnot mean Pearl has to be in Pakistan. Just beacuse India and Indian wallow in *hit it does not mean Pakistan has to do the same.
The killing of Pearl was a dastardly act. An act for which I doubt if Pakistan will be forgiven for a long time.
This is the end of the road for the jehadis, the lilitants, the beardos, fundos, the ISI and the army in Pakistan and the elite.
The elite and the progeny of the gfailed Mughals and the nabobs etc have failed Pakistan like their forefathers did earlier on.
Time that this failed establishement of Pakistan was dumped into the fires of hell.
Pakistan has not been served well by this brainless inbred incestuous 5000l.
Where will the new rulers come from.
#10 Posted by Godot on February 23, 2002 1:20:12 pm
Thank you for the excellent write-up, Ras. I think my post below belongs to your board.
The senseless killing of Daniel Pearl imposes a new urgency on Musharraf and the law enforcement authorities to crack down even harder on the terrorists in Pakistan. The killers must be brought to justice soon. No one in Pakistan has any sympathy to the terrorists who kill innocent people. Musharraf has the blessing of all Pakistanis to hunt down and remove all the terrorists in Pakistan. He and all decent and caring Pakistanis should not rest till Pakistan is cleansed of this cancer.
Daniel Pearl may have sacrificed his life for the betterment of Pakistan. He is Pakistan`s hero. He will be remembered as such.
The senseless killing of Daniel Pearl imposes a new urgency on Musharraf and the law enforcement authorities to crack down even harder on the terrorists in Pakistan. The killers must be brought to justice soon. No one in Pakistan has any sympathy to the terrorists who kill innocent people. Musharraf has the blessing of all Pakistanis to hunt down and remove all the terrorists in Pakistan. He and all decent and caring Pakistanis should not rest till Pakistan is cleansed of this cancer.
Daniel Pearl may have sacrificed his life for the betterment of Pakistan. He is Pakistan`s hero. He will be remembered as such.
#11 Posted by veeresh on February 23, 2002 1:20:12 pm
I am very sorry to say this too, but some murders are more equal than others.
This is a simple statement, in grief for all murders.
#12 Posted by hamidm on February 23, 2002 1:20:12 pm
temporal #2
..........now here is another prime, and rank, example of what is wrong with the ummah, the bushmen and other nobel savages who refuse to put on trousers and crawl out of their caves .... we offer up mealymouthed excuses and incessantly whine about being the victims of neo-colonialism, imperialism, blatant racism and britney spears every time one of our own beheads someone on video .......shame on us for falling into this trap of blaming the white man for all our miseries just because we don`t like beethoven and blondes drive us crazy ......
.......... it is time to quit wallowing in the kaka of putrid self-pity - it stinks! .........it is time to sit up and smell the joshanda - there is something horribly wrong with a value system that refuses to recognize its own faults .........
........ and oh, by the way, eid mubarik
..........now here is another prime, and rank, example of what is wrong with the ummah, the bushmen and other nobel savages who refuse to put on trousers and crawl out of their caves .... we offer up mealymouthed excuses and incessantly whine about being the victims of neo-colonialism, imperialism, blatant racism and britney spears every time one of our own beheads someone on video .......shame on us for falling into this trap of blaming the white man for all our miseries just because we don`t like beethoven and blondes drive us crazy ......
.......... it is time to quit wallowing in the kaka of putrid self-pity - it stinks! .........it is time to sit up and smell the joshanda - there is something horribly wrong with a value system that refuses to recognize its own faults .........
........ and oh, by the way, eid mubarik
#13 Posted by pmishra2 on February 23, 2002 1:20:12 pm
It is impressive to hear these impassioned statements of regret. Yet, without doubt these are connected to Mr. Pearl`s origin from a powerful nation. A nation which could flatten Pakistan like a squashed fly within a day. This is the real cause of Pakistani anguish.
In the recent past, the pakistani dictator and many sections of Pakistani society have explained that killing civilians is OK as long as it is part of a ``freedom struggle``. As a result, it was possible to read in the pakistani newspapers of ``Freedom Fighters Kill 7 in Wedding Party in Occupied Kashmir`` or ``Freedom Fighters Shoot Pilgrims in Occupied Kashmir``. These are the actual headlines from Pakistani newspapers in the end of 2001.
The dictator Musharraf even had the gall to come to India and explain to us backward people the difference between ``freedom struggle`` and terrorism: when indians are killed it is always part of a freedom struggle, otherwise there may be terrorism involved. Naturally, this type of delusional statements led even moderate and liberal Indians to conclude that there was no point in dialog with a collection of psychopaths.
All of the hijackers and criminals freed in the Indian Airlines hijacking have been given sanctuary in Pakistan and supported by broad sections of society. Now it turns out that these same folks are the prime suspects in the killing of Pearl. When the Indian Rupin Katyal was murdered on the Indian Airlines plane by Pakistani terrorists, of course, we heard no compassion or concern from any segment of Pakistani society. After all, Rupin was from a poor country and as a hindu could hardly be considered a human being.
Change in Pakistan can only come at the point of a gun. It is similar to denazification in Germany in 1945 or the creation of a new goverment in Japan during 1946-51. I am glad 600,000 indian soldiers remain on the border and that 50 US warships are located near Pakistani waters. Without these, er, inducements, we would see the same criminality and hatred that we have seen for the last 10 years.
In the recent past, the pakistani dictator and many sections of Pakistani society have explained that killing civilians is OK as long as it is part of a ``freedom struggle``. As a result, it was possible to read in the pakistani newspapers of ``Freedom Fighters Kill 7 in Wedding Party in Occupied Kashmir`` or ``Freedom Fighters Shoot Pilgrims in Occupied Kashmir``. These are the actual headlines from Pakistani newspapers in the end of 2001.
The dictator Musharraf even had the gall to come to India and explain to us backward people the difference between ``freedom struggle`` and terrorism: when indians are killed it is always part of a freedom struggle, otherwise there may be terrorism involved. Naturally, this type of delusional statements led even moderate and liberal Indians to conclude that there was no point in dialog with a collection of psychopaths.
All of the hijackers and criminals freed in the Indian Airlines hijacking have been given sanctuary in Pakistan and supported by broad sections of society. Now it turns out that these same folks are the prime suspects in the killing of Pearl. When the Indian Rupin Katyal was murdered on the Indian Airlines plane by Pakistani terrorists, of course, we heard no compassion or concern from any segment of Pakistani society. After all, Rupin was from a poor country and as a hindu could hardly be considered a human being.
Change in Pakistan can only come at the point of a gun. It is similar to denazification in Germany in 1945 or the creation of a new goverment in Japan during 1946-51. I am glad 600,000 indian soldiers remain on the border and that 50 US warships are located near Pakistani waters. Without these, er, inducements, we would see the same criminality and hatred that we have seen for the last 10 years.
#14 Posted by stuka on February 23, 2002 1:20:12 pm
FerozeK:
Interesting post. Similarly, among Sokhs, the Saffron turban is a sign that one is ready for martyrdom. After 1984`s Blue Star operation, many Sikhs started wearing Saffron head dress, till the time Indira Gandhi was punished, and Satwant Singh and Beant Singh became Shaheed.
Interesting post. Similarly, among Sokhs, the Saffron turban is a sign that one is ready for martyrdom. After 1984`s Blue Star operation, many Sikhs started wearing Saffron head dress, till the time Indira Gandhi was punished, and Satwant Singh and Beant Singh became Shaheed.
#15 Posted by stuka on February 23, 2002 1:20:12 pm
Truth:
Excellent point, Sir. I don`t think the killing of Daniel Pearl is an indictment of Pakistani Civil Society, just as the killing of Graham Staines was not for India.
But, it is definitely an indictment of the Pakistani establishment`s pandering of Jehadi elements to further national objectives. The annexation of Kashmir is a nationalist objective for the state of Pakistan, and yet the tool used to achieve that objective was Islamic fundamentalism which inherently does not recognize the concept of nationhood.
It is this contradiction between ``Islamic`` (as defined by Jehadis) objectives, and national objectives (as defined by the mentors of the Jehadis, the Pakistani state)that is the cause of present friction between the two groups.
Excellent point, Sir. I don`t think the killing of Daniel Pearl is an indictment of Pakistani Civil Society, just as the killing of Graham Staines was not for India.
But, it is definitely an indictment of the Pakistani establishment`s pandering of Jehadi elements to further national objectives. The annexation of Kashmir is a nationalist objective for the state of Pakistan, and yet the tool used to achieve that objective was Islamic fundamentalism which inherently does not recognize the concept of nationhood.
It is this contradiction between ``Islamic`` (as defined by Jehadis) objectives, and national objectives (as defined by the mentors of the Jehadis, the Pakistani state)that is the cause of present friction between the two groups.
#16 Posted by Truth on February 23, 2002 1:20:12 pm
FerozeK:
Thanks for the clarification reg Benazir`s dupatta. Only she knows her own motivations for wearing a white dupatta and I will defer to your hypothesis.
I agree she is a political animal who just uses Islam - I was suggesting that sort of ``use`` be curtailed. If you believe it, live it. But if you are pandering, do not do it.
Thanks for the clarification reg Benazir`s dupatta. Only she knows her own motivations for wearing a white dupatta and I will defer to your hypothesis.
I agree she is a political animal who just uses Islam - I was suggesting that sort of ``use`` be curtailed. If you believe it, live it. But if you are pandering, do not do it.
#17 Posted by nasah on February 23, 2002 1:20:12 pm
``And I for one wish that he would take the path of democracy and get help from former Prime Ministers Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif to reclaim the Pakistan that I grew up in``(RAS)
A brilliant idea, Ras.
Musharraf should quit this ``divine`` mandate bullsh#t – must rise to the occasion -- bring back both people`s leaders in a COALITION -- to exterminate Islamist terrorism from Pakistan -- AND GET TOGETHER WITH INDIA TO ELIMINATE THIS SCOURGE FROM THE SUBCONTINET -- as well.
Military alone CANNOT do it -- Musharraf MUST involve -- the people`s representatives -- MUST restore democracy.
Pakistan’s already tattered image has been badly mauled by this unconscionable gruesome murder of an innocent news reporter.
Musharraf HAS to do something spectacular to salvage Pakistan`s sinking fortunes -- Ras, your proposal could be one of the first steps in that direction.
hasan
A brilliant idea, Ras.
Musharraf should quit this ``divine`` mandate bullsh#t – must rise to the occasion -- bring back both people`s leaders in a COALITION -- to exterminate Islamist terrorism from Pakistan -- AND GET TOGETHER WITH INDIA TO ELIMINATE THIS SCOURGE FROM THE SUBCONTINET -- as well.
Military alone CANNOT do it -- Musharraf MUST involve -- the people`s representatives -- MUST restore democracy.
Pakistan’s already tattered image has been badly mauled by this unconscionable gruesome murder of an innocent news reporter.
Musharraf HAS to do something spectacular to salvage Pakistan`s sinking fortunes -- Ras, your proposal could be one of the first steps in that direction.
hasan
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