A Convert’s Complaint: Analyzing Naipaul’s Views on Islam

Ref AAmir #: 151

[There is no fatwa for non muslims.Think ,how can you punish someone who is not part of your system.]

Explain to us benighted Hindus how come the blasphemy laws in Pakistan apply to Christians and Hindus.

[If Rushdie had disowned himself as muslim there would be no fatwa.]

What crap! The punishment for apostasy in Islam is death.

dost-mittar #172: hmm..interesting reply. not very convincing however. you seemed to have dodged some of the questions.

``Because it will be the first sign that you want to reclaim your pre-conversion cultural heritage.``

This sounds like something from the BJP website (the website actually states something identical to this). I don`t want to reclaim my pre or post-conversion cultural heritage. I never lost it. I am just interested in the culture, in general. I am actually quite happy with what I have right now. I have no problems with the fact that great-great....great grandpa converted. It is quite possible that he was forced to convert. Then again, maybe he converted on his own free will. So, Islam may not rock everyone`s world, but I am quite happy with it.

Just like I don`t want Hindus to convert to Islam if they don`t want to, neither should they want me to convert to my pre-conversion Hinduism if I don`t want to. My name is thus a combination of my religious beliefs and my cultural heritage (pre or post conversion doesn`t make any difference to me). I don`t want to give either one of those up completely. Thus changing my name to Prithvi Raja would be as wrong as changing my name to Umair bin Al-Hajjaj.

``Moreover, right now, when you tell someone your name in India, he will immediately know that you are a Punjabi Muslim of Rajput ``zaat`` and will form some stereotypical opinions about you even before he has come to know you as a person.``

That would be his problem, not mine. Wouldn`t you agree? Besides, who is to say, once he gets to know me as a person, his opinion will change for the better. So maybe it`s a blessing in disguise.

``This shows that, contrary to your claim, Pakistanis are in fact quite ignorant about India. India has named its missiles after elements of nature, earth, fire, sky (prithvi, agni, akaash)``

The point I have made is that Pakistanis know much more about India, than Indians know about Pakistan. Not that Pakistanis know enough. They still need to know more.

The missile naming is interesting. Indians pulled a fast one. The named one Prithvi, without emailing the Pakistanis that it was earth and not my ancestoral warrior. Us Pakistanis, ignorant as we are, named ours after the invading Muslim king who kicked grandpa`s butt. Since every Pakistani doesn`t have Rajput ancestors, they are not as attached to Prithviraj or Ranga Sanga, as I am. Some of the Pakistanis actually rode in with Ghauri, so they are more attached to him.

Later on, maybe the Indians decided that they were in a losing name race (i.e. it was hard to name a missile after a Hindu king who had defeated a Muslim king), so they brought in the akash and agni argument, after the fact :-). Or maybe it was Prithvi = Earth, to begin with. In any case, when us ignoromouses figured this out, we switched our names to Shaheen and Hatf.

The best solution would be for India to accept the complete denuclearization offer of Pakistan. Then we wouldn`t have to fight over names. Wouldn`t you agree?

By the way, if you study Sub-Continental history, you will discover that grandpa Prithviraj Chauhan was neither a Pakistani nor an Indian. As far as he was concerned, he was a Rajput (he may have chopped your head off had you called him a Maratha or a Tamil, or a Jat or a Dogra; all Hindu families of areas and names). He disliked the many Hindu kings that surrounded his land, and wanted a piece of it, just as much as he disliked Ghauri. After all Rajputs fought more wars with Hindu kings than they fought with Ghauri. And Mr. P. Raj Chauhan did kidnap and marry Jaichandra`s (a fellow Hindu) daughter.

So it is not a good idea to portray grandpa as an Indian or a Sub-Continentalist, or as a ``Hindu`` king. Just like it is wrong to potrtray Ghauri as a ``Muslim`` king. Both were just plain old kings/generals, trying to expand or protect their lands and take other people`s stuff.

``I have earlier said on the Chowk that one of the few things the subcontinental Islam absorbed from Hindus, unfortunately, was their casteism. What you said is just a proof of that.``

First you complain that Pakistanis have dumped their Hindu heritage. Then when I tell you the long list of cultural last names, you state that they would be a negative in the Army. Then when I inform you that the whole Pakistani Army is filled with these names, you accuse us of keeping the Hindu caste system. It is a no win argument for us :-) The cast system was part and parcel of Hindu culture. We didn`t pick and chose. But the last names don`t have much to do with castes (in the military, at least). I don`t really know whether a Gill is greater than a Warriach or a Raja. Could you enlighten me? I didn`t even know these names had a Hindu history, until I became a teenager.

``You obviously haven`t been to India.``

Yes, unfortunately I haven`t. But I do plan to visit sometime.

``Ghulam Ali, Mehdi Hasan, Nusrat Fateh Ali, Saabri Brothers and others have as much, if not greater, following in India as in Pakistan.``

All of this is good to know. However, my question was whether there were neighborhoods which had hundreds (or even tens) of shops that sold just Pakistani entertainment, and were able to stay in business. ``Just,`` being the key word here. In Pakistan, there are shops that sell just Indian entertainment and do booming business. Heck, at one of the military bases where I was stationed, we had an Indian only video shop right next to our mess hall. Some of the greatest war plans ever devised by Pakistanis, have been while listening to Madhuri`s songs in the background. Talk about accepting the good things that come from India........

And you still haven`t told me of any place in India where I can go and listen to Junoon`s rendition of Pak Sar Zameen booming on the stereos. I can take you to places where A.R. Rahman`s Vande Matram booms on stereos in Pakistan. The important point here is not Junoon or A.R. Rahman, but the songs I mentioned.

``Come to Ottawa. We will talk about Pakistan and things Pakistani until you say ``bas kar yaar!````

Ottawa is too cold, and too far away, and too boring. If I have to go that far to find the one Indian, who knows something about Pakistan, then one would have to assume that Indians, as a whole, know very little about Pakistan. Do you have a cousin or relative in Silicon Valley I can contact, who can talk to me for more than ten minutes about Pakistan?

Truth #169: I did some research on the high school:

``Lahore College for women was founded in 1922 in a small building at Hall Road to meet the needs of female students of the sub-continent. It was shifted along with its traditions and goal “Attainment of Excellence” to the present building at jail road in 1951 which was originally a school named Sir Ganga Ram High School and Teacher’s Training Center.`` (http://www.aitchison.edu.pk/Lahore/lhrcollegewomen.htm)

So the school (or at least the building) is now the largest women`s college in Lahore. It is located close to Kinnaird college, and is called Lahore College for Women.

Dear Drumz

Some time back, you asked questions on Hinduism, that I answered to the best of my capacity then. I read an English translation of ``Kitab-ul-Hind`` by Albiruni and found that it can give you another perspective, if read objectively. You just have to maintain healthy scientific sceptism of separating facts from opinions keeping in mind the religious preferences of the author and taking his ``personal`` comments with a pinch of salt. However there is no denying that it contains a large amount of apparently ``factual`` information on Hinduism. I consider it a must for anyone who seriously desires to understand India and Hinduism.

Romair:

``Why is it that I can talk to my Indian colleagues for hours about things Indian, yet they cannot carry on a conversation with for more than a few minutes about anything Pakistani.``

You have not met the right Indians. I would love to meet with you and talk for hours about your country`s culture, food, music, social life, history, politics (stuff not even relating to India) etc etc. Ofcourse, the issues of personal preference do come in. I would any day prefer to meet someone from Lahore/Rawalpindi rather than Karachi/Quetta, just as u would probably prefer to meet a Punjabi Indian over a a Gujju or a Gult.

Banjara # 150, thank you for this info. One day I shall travel this railway line to Shahgai.

Romair # 138, I can understand your khundaus, but I think we in India don`t know much about Pakistan simply because your media is state controlled to a large extent and your films are sanitised. Yes, Junoon booms out here too, and as for Pakistani songs, there was this ``Puraanee jeans aur guitar`` song which was used on a tv programme here, a fairly nationalistic one too (till they realised it was a Pakistani song . . .). Don`t blame us for not watching Pakistani films, what can we do if your actresses come out in hijaab (OK OK just kidding) and your actors are mainly peacocks using Brylcreem (not kidding).

As for ``Pakistani stuff in India``, give me a break. What Pakistani stuff do you want to see? What you consider Pakistani (Muslim religion, Urdu literature, Indus Valley civilisation, Islamic contribution to ethos, Pathaan moneylenders, Karachi-type bus drivers, fried food on railway platforms etcetc) we consider Indian, it continues to be part of us, so what are you cribbing about? Yes, we do not consider the great Arab heritage (never mind that the Arabs kick Paki butt as much as they kick Indian butt but never mind never mind . . .) that some Pakistanis claim to be theirs as remotely connected to us, so that may be an issue with you?

Romair # 83: Maybe you would have better luck with the ladies if you changed your name to Shah Rukh or Salman or Amir or . . . wait . . . how about Mansur, Nawab of Pataudi? Chill . . .

re AAmir

``If anything very soon Mrs Pearl will become Muslm ...watch ``

Few things are more amusing in this grand religion debate than the obsession that Islamist apologists have with Western women. HRH Diana was killed because she was about to convert; such and such professor converted and is wearing hijaab; the numbers of Caucasian women switching to Islam is increasing day by day...etc etc etc. If anything, this kind of propaganda, even if it is true, simply underlines the terrible self-esteem crisis that Islamist apologists suffer from. At the same time, such non-sense seems to be a desperate tool to deflect the justified criticism of Islam`s treatment of women (please no axiomatic lectures on how Islam freed women and gives them same rights etc).

Some piece of good news from BIHAR, a country within a country.

Rediff reports that Hindus in the town protected the mosque from being vandalized.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/mar/02train14.htm

DRUMZ #170 you write ``The hadis are more currupted then the bible could ever be, the Quran is written with various different styles (wake up!!).`` Truer words have rarely been spoken on this issue in Pakistan.

Vishnu came to earth via ten avatars (notice the concept of God coming to earth krsna=christ). I think the last was buddha. Muhammed may be the tenth though saying so requires selective reasoning. The kalki avatar was supposed to return earth to an age of innocence (debatable). The whole thing about the sword and the white horse was in the book of revelations in the bible also.

QURAN: Ud have to be blind az hell to actually believe it has never changed (note: most muslims are blind az hell). The hadis are more currupted then the bible could ever be, the Quran is written with various different styles (wake up!!).

Some of muhammed`s letters are in existence (thought he was illiterate...) which dont have any dots or vowels. I thought Allah said he would kill Muhammed if he CHANGED the quran... Adding vowels and dots changed the meanings. Look at the word Allah which should end with a ``Haa.`` Many Arabic writings of Allah place two dots over the HAA changing the word to Allat (the preislamic god).

Romair:

The name of the school in pre-47 Lahore was Sir Ganga Ram Hindu Girls High Scool. No more Hindu girls, no more Sir Ganga Ram School would be my guess.

...it`s all over .... the bedouin tents, the fig leaves and turbans have been blown away by one front page article in the ny times .... the camel is out of the tent and, even if it had a door to start with, there is no point in trying to shut it ....

....there is no place to hide - no respite for the faithful .....first the caves crumbled under farangi bombs, then the slums and hovels in ahmedabad went up in flames stoked by sadhus in war paint ....but now the very foundation on which the sand-castle had been built is being threatened by infidel scholars and the devil`s own ny times ......

..... next thing you know they will be telling us that the tooth fairy does not exist - asthagfirullah!

P.S. personally, i prefer being called a hagarine - sounds kind of sexy

re:Reply #: 147

MFarooqui,

Thanks for your post and your kind words.

An Avataar is a sanskrit word which literally means ``to come down``. That is, to come down to earth. Some highly evolved souls, hindus believe, often come down to earth to alleviate sufferings of humanity. They do this at God`s command. Hindu scriptures also say God himself has come down to earth on some occasions when things were considered beyond man`s control. Ram, Krishna are considered as major Avatars and came about at times of great evil and suffering.

One may ask, why God needs to bother to come down to earth? Why can`t he fix things from wherever he is? One analogy is that in order to save a drowning man, you have to get into the waters. Avatars do not merely help humanity but also gives the necessary message and momentum for man`s spiritual evolution. Jesus on cross is a powerful symbol for all spiritual seekers. Could Jesus not have saved himself? After all he was son God. His crucifixion was destined by will of God and left a powerful imagery and message for humanity.

Sridhar

If you hadn`t noticed, but Ihave post-Gujarat

frenzy.

Western press doesn`t give a rats a##; Indian press gives front page news and they seem to more

secular-point of view.

IMHO, after Pearl`s death, it is perhaps possible western journalists are avoiding projecting pro-muslim sentiments. All the western papers in their reporting talk about why the violence started, muslim mob torching train, etc and end with current violence-hindu mob reacting to that event, etc vs indian press doesn`t want to mention muslim mob but would mention hindu fanatics even though there are fanatics on both sides.

I think the violence toll of 400 and counting had not sunk in considering one-day toll of 3000 in wtc. I think a lot of psyches have been changed through out the western countries, unfortunately, against Islam and its ideals post 9/11 thanks to Osama, Mullah Omar and Pearl`s brutal killing.

Now, if one rewinds during kosovo time, western powers were sympathetic to the muslim cause. Now post 9/11 US even wants to dismantle UN tribunals. Washingtonpost even reports about lack of reconcialliation due to milosevic trial, meaning it is siding with the view that perhaps, milosevic can retire and fade away. Milosevic is no worse than Gul Hekmatyar, Omar, Osama.

So what has happened is a vast-paradigm re-think about Islam, in my opinion.

semipreciousme:

``even though your post was addressed to indians only, let me butt in….i think that in this type of situation, where such abhorrence and fury blinds people, only so much can be done to stop them…bbc was showing a report and people….actually to be more precise, boys and men, were running around like chickens with their heads cut off shouting for muslims’ throats to be slit….they even hit the bbcwallah cameramen…..the police were outnumbered smt like 10:1….with absolutely NO riot gear…only an idiot would try to take on a possessed mob like that…``

Look, you`re right if you look at this situation in isolation. But any idiot new there would be riots after the train incident. It is the governmen`t job to deploy forces and fast. Personally, I am against the army being deployed for Internal Security duties. BUT, we have Rapid Action Forces, the Paramilitaries like CRPF, forces that are well equipped and disciplined. Even local police tends to perform well, IF the political will is there.

In Gujarat, the menatlity of revenge was there. The political leadership showed it`s true colors. What is happening is nauseating, there is no excuse for it. It takes the police 5 minutes to shoot into a crowd, kill a couple of rioters and stop a mob in it`s tracks. There is no reason to defend the conduct of the Indian government at this time. I am also laughing the Gujaratis. Not one Patel joins the fauj to actually fight real battles where the enemy has guns. Instead they prove their manhood by killing some poor muslim ricksaw wallahswho cannot defend themselves. Scumbags.

Romair #138

Romair-ji:

Re your comments about Indian`s fascination towards Pakistani songs(or the lack of it).I have a something to add.

Even though I don`t know much about urdu even though I like the tone and someone speaking it. I love your Ghulam Ali better than Jagjit. I have all of Ghulam Ali`s songs. That too, I hardly understand what is said, except for ``Wah,Wah`` when I attended his ghazar performance when he was in town.

Lately, I understand some of the lines because of watching too much Hindi cinema(Govinda types-meaningless time-pass)

Please don`t dump all Indians to one camp as Pakistani haters. I sure for one, LOVE Ghulam Ali.

What Ghazals, man..

Thanks