A Convert’s Complaint: Analyzing Naipaul’s Views on Islam

The writter is comming up with too many excuses!

Vereesh/Roohi: Thanks for the input.

I am cutting and pasting your posts and putting them on the chapter 2 board, if you don`t mind. If the second edition comes out, they will serve as reference.

P.S. Why does everyone want to be fair-skinned.... Is that asset or a liability for a Rajput.

I would like to point you to the classic Punjabi hit: Kala Shah Kala......Gorian noonh paranh karo....

Roohi 241 / Romair 242 . . . well I guess I will sharpen up the debugging skills BUT BUT BUT . . . gentleman in question could have had Afghan or German or Tamil Brahmin grandmother and still been tall / fair / blue-eyed / aquiline nose without having Pathan blood . . . could have gone to any decent school in India, why only Mayo or MGD . . . his Sikhni fiancee could have gone to school anywhere including Hounslow or T-ronto . . . and yes, NDA has to be followed by IMA if you want to be an Army Officer EXCEPT in certain non-regular branches like Medical, Vet, JAG, and certain postings I don`t want to talk about, maybe our hero was out there doing stuff?

I did raise the issue of the RajRif and Rajput regiments with a cousin of mine . . . there is now enough intermingling but yes, Roohi is correct.

There are enough Pakistani & Indian military officers who go for further training to European and American destinations, often together. Likewise on UN postings.

Scout: Put me on ur freakin msn thing. T bhai is being T Gaybhai.

Banjaara: ``Anger aint good for clear thinking.``

True, neither is trying to interpret the messenger rather then the message (i wasnt at all angry).

``There is a reference to the context here which is not visible to you.Do you know why I called him..(what kind of hindu are you),Do you know where he comes from and do you know where I come from...``

U must be evil incarnate if ur asking me to read everything written on chowk (for the record i wouldnt wish that on anyone). As a general rule i dont consider tha messenger, but if i missed some context then my post is to be ignored.

``there are a lot more questions,you dont know the

answers of,even if you have obtained ``nirvana`` at

a tender young age.BTW what is wrong with gay?``

Gay doesnt mean happy or homosexual. Just wierd (in my context). Also, u are wearing a pink shirt.

``Here is something from Bhagvad Geeta for you`` I got the first couple of lines and not the rest so u may wanna drop the verse # or an english translation.

Chunky: Take three courses on logic and 6 on english and get back to me.

#101 harimau

``[You can see that even in the cyber rioters (Ali1 & harimau leading

the brigades).]

Do you understand English or did you study in one of

Tamil-medium schools and colleges installed by the Doctor Artist

Leader? Can you tell me in which post I was suggesting that

people should riot?``

Uncle, i`ll leave you to you other hallucinations and address just this one thing. A bunch of hooligans decided that the lives of kar sevaks is worth nothing and another bunch of hooligans decided that all muslims are therefore legitimate targets. A third bunch have been coming up various excuses as to why that riots were to be expected, could not be prevented, etc. The third bunch is the ``intellectual`` force behind the riots. Men like you, in fact. At least you are in the company of ``honorable`` men like Modi.

rsridhar

“Were those the number actually dead or the number of dead recovered from the debris.”

….2830 is the number actually dead….they’ve identified/recovered

# 276

Please read ``hoga`` instead of ``hogo`` in the last line of the shloka.

DRUMZ # 273

``Im not a fan of u self righteous cats ``How can u not know that temple X was created by 177 men on AD1236 using 377 bricks?`` Who cares? That ``info`` does not have anything to do with being a decent person. Going up to a man like Prem and trying to degrade him (and praise urself) for ur opinion that ur more ``knowledgeable`` is plain old gay``

Anger aint good for clear thinking.There is a reference to the context here which is not visible to you.Do you know why I called him..

(what kind of hindu are you),Do you know where he comes from and do you know where I come from and

there are a lot more questions,you dont know the

answers of,even if you have obtained ``nirvana`` at

a tender young age.BTW what is wrong with gay?

Here is something from Bhagvad Geeta for you:

Dekh raha hun Arjun tujhko

hua moh hai tujhko bhaari

na paayega swarg kabhi tu

na hogo tu maan adhikaari

Regards.

LEADER ARTICLE

Carnage in Gujarat

SIDDHARTH VARADARAJAN

[ TUESDAY, MARCH 05, 2002 11:56:15 PM ]

PRIME minister Vajpayee’s attempt to blame the people of Gujarat — and their supposed lack of “harmony” — for the mass killings in their state is a disingenuous manoeuvre aimed at absolving himself, his party colleagues and the state machinery they control, of any responsibility for the crimes.

Instead of using national television to tell the people of Gujarat that the genocidal mobs would be put down with a firm hand — and that policemen

failing to protect the life and liberty of all would be punished — Mr Vajpayee delivered a sermon on the need for religious tolerance. Considering that it took him two whole days and over 300 deaths to come up with such tepid fare, he might at least have used his poetic skills to compensate for the lack of political will. Who knows, if the poet Amrita Pritam could have delivered her ‘Waris Shah’

on television in 1947, she might have shamed a killer or two into dropping his weapon. Sadly, our prime minister could not even do that much. Though he has described the violence as a “blot on the nation”, there was little passion or feeling in what he said, no words of succour for the victims, no anger or opprobrium for the killers. If Vajpayee the statesman failed the nation, Vajpayee the poet fared no better.

Like Rajiv Gandhi in November 1984 and Narasimha Rao in January 1993, Mr Vajpayee will go down in history as a prime minister who preached the virtues of tolerance even as his cohorts turned a blind eye to the massacre of innocent citizens. Had he gone on television to denounce those using the Godhra incident to justify attacks on Muslims — including chief minister Narendra Modi,who said, ‘‘Har kriya ki pratikriya hoti hi hai (Every act produces a reaction)’’ —he would have alienated a handful of fanatics but earned the gratitude of the

entire nation in return. One Arab and one Sikh were murdered in the US following the terrorist massacre of over 3,000 people at the World Trade Center and the public outcry forced president Bush to state that anyone attacking Muslims and other minorities would be severely dealt with. In India there was much self-righteous anger when a Sikh in the US was ‘mistakenly’ killed for being an Arab. In Gujarat, however, more than 450 Muslims have been hunted down and murdered after Godhra — that too by elements inspired by his own partymen with the complicity of the state government and police — yet Mr Vajpayee could not bring himself to say, as the leader of India, that he would not allow anyone to attack Muslim citizens, as Mr Bush did in the US context.

There have been communal massacres before but never has such a concerted attempt been made to destroy not just a minority community but its economic foundations as well. Already, more than 450 Muslims have been killed. Tens of crores of rupees worth of property has been torched, and when the ashes settle, it may well be that no Gujarati Muslim business — from the smallest tea stall to large hotels and film studios — will have survived. Muslims from all walks of life have been targeted and even prominent members of the state and ruling apparatus — sitting high court judges, senior police officers and politicians — have not been spared. The fact that the BJP government in Gujarat devalued Muslim lives is well known; but by announcing compensation of one lakh rupees per riot victim as compared to two lakh rupees for the Godhra victims, Narendra Modi has arithmetically quantified his bias.

Ever since the hijacking of IC-814, the prime minister has become something of an expert in the fine art of capitulating to blackmail. Today, his government is indulging in ‘negotiations’ on the Ayodhya issue with a group that is responsible for the pogroms of Gujarat and openly flaunts its contempt for the law.

Press reports are piling up by the day that the mobs were led and orchestrated by local leaders of the Bajrang Dal and Vishwa Hindu Parishad. Whether the ban on the Islamic group SIMI was justified or not, there was certainly no incriminating evidence against it of the kind that is publicly accumulating against the VHP. If suspicion and intent were grounds to ban SIMI, why is the Union government unwilling to move against a group that is a walking advertisement for mass violence?

Asked by a citizens’ delegation last week why his government could not ban the VHP when General Musharraf had managed to ban several religious extremist groups in Pakistan, Mr Vajpayee is said to have replied, ‘‘(Musharraf) is a dictator and can ban anyone. We are a democracy’’. This appeal to ‘democracy’ has an uncomfortable resonance with the controversial remark Mr Vajpayee made last month during the final phase of campaigning for the Uttar Pradesh elections. Speaking at a rally in Allahabad, he urged Muslims to vote for his party but added that the BJP was going to win even without their votes. Though Mr Vajpayee subsequently went out of his way to stress that he did not mean to say the BJP wasn’t interested in Muslim votes, the import of his message to Indian

Muslims couldn’t have been clearer: You are either with us or you are against us. It could have been interpreted as a velvet-gloved threat, which the Bajrang Dal and VHP in Gujarat have come good on.

Even at this late stage, Mr Vajpayee can work to retrieve the situation. First, he must use his party channels to dismiss Narendra Modi as chief minister and replace him with a man who will arrest those leaders, political activists and police officials who through their action, inaction and incendiary speeches have led to so much carnage. Second, the law of the land must be made to apply to the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and all other organisations which are involved in inciting hatred and violence. Far from giving the VHP respectability, the Centre should state unequivocally that there is no question of giving in to blackmail over Ayodhya, now or in the future.

Finally, the prime minister must realise that what has happened in Gujarat is not abstract, amorphous violence but the targeted killing of Muslim citizens with the tacit backing of the state administration. Godhra was a terrible crime but the

government at least did not help the murderers; what happened afterwards, however, suggests official complicity. Unless the guilty are punished, the Central government will have relinquished its moral right to hold office.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=2900210

Banjaara: ``Did I say good hindu?``

Was that worth saying? If u take the word ``good`` out does it change the fact that having historical INFORMATION is not a prerequisite of being a hindu.

Im not a fan of u self righteous cats ``How can u not know that temple X was created by 177 men on AD1236 using 377 bricks?`` Who cares? That ``info`` does not have anything to do with being a decent person. Going up to a man like Prem and trying to degrade him (and praise urself) for ur opinion that ur more ``knowledgeable`` is plain old gay.

Re Romair #265

``I am not sure whether India sends its cadets to foreign academies. If it does, one would assume Sandhurst would be the first choice. So NDA, then to Sandhurst, then to the Rajputana Rifles as a Lieutenant``

Umm, not after NDA. Actually its like this - NDA takes students who have completed year 11 or year 12 at school. During their stint cadets also undergo studies and are awarded degrees from JNU (Jawarlal Nehru Univ.). The next step after NDA is the IMA (Indian Military Academy) at Dehradun.

The IMA also takes fresh graduates form other universities. There is also the OTA (or is it OTS?) at Secundrabad which takes fresh graduate for the short service commission. After this those officers who show the aptitude (and academic skills) may be sent to the techincal schools - College of Military Engineering for entry into various technical arms (EME, Signals etc). There is another place at Wellington in Southern India (can`t remember the name of the place) where the deserving officers are sent for further training.

Its after this that officers can be sent on a stint to a foreign academy (possibly Sandhurst), but there are plenty of other training institutes in India where they can go too.

-

Subroto

Another one for you Harimau

http://www.indian-express.com/ie20020306/top2.html

(Oh Yeah! I know its just the bleatings of the a pseudo-secular, anglicized, hindu-hating newsrag)

DRUMZ # 262

``What does knowing that have to do with being a good hindu?``

Did I say good hindu?

btw harimau, whats your take on the 2 lakhs for the train victims v/s 1 lakh for the subsequent riot victims?

#266

Lets get some definitions straight:

Breakdown in law and order: When repeated acts of violence are committed without any discerable attempts by the administration to prevent such acts.

So what occured in Gohdra was a failure of the intelligence arm (typically of IB) to anticipate this event. I do not know if the rural or railway police was capable of preventing the murder after the mob assembled. If yes then it indicates incompetence on their part.

But what happened subsequently in Ahmedabad could be easily anticipated even by morons like you and me. Yet there is clear evidence that the cops were disorganized at a higher level and parochial at a lower level. The most charitable explaination I can offer is sheer administrative incompetence on part of the Modi government, which alone is grounds for dismissal:

Exhibit 1:

The first paramilitary forces entered Gujrat Thursady night atleast 36 hours after the train massacre:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/feb/28train18.htm

Exhibit 2:

Shoot-at-sight orders issued and the first flag marches staged (Friday morning). This after an entire days rioting had taken place and more than a 100 people killed:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/mar/01train4.htm

The only worst example of administrative inaction I can think of is Delhi in `84.