The Panel of Vendettas at UC Berkley

Aisha #63

``itni mirchey que lagti hain about Kargil?`` as you so elegantly put it ! QiuN ? Lt. Hanifuddin, 24, 11 Rajputana Rifles (of meri Dilli and khandani regiment, formally Mr. Shivaji of Shivaji College DU, rock star, brother of Sameerudin and Nafisuddin and son of Hema Aziz, hindu, widow and classical dancer) - Lt. Surav Kalia, 23, 4 Jat Regiment (tortured to death along with 5 soldiers of 4 Jat) along with many many more on our side AND YOURS (Northern Light Infantary, those poor chaps) had to die for Mushyrats stupid dumb plan ...

... is taraf bhi insaan baste haiN, aap ke log hote to bura nahiN lagta ?

... and here is some free advice

``bura jo dekhan meiN chala, bura na milya koi, jo dil dekha aapna, mujhsa bura na koi``



Dreams fall to Pak bullets

NEW DELHI, June 17 (PTI) — Kargil, like any other armed conflict has not only cut short lives of individuals who made the supreme sacrifice for their motherland, but nipped in the bud flowering of many a beautiful human relationships. Behind the saga of gallantry of the Indian Armed Forces lies buried little known tales of cruel and abrupt end to relationships on which thrives the human civilisation.

For Swarna Sarda, Kargil is not just a tale of gallantry but the end of a dream of a lifetime as her childhood friend Capt P.V. Vikram, she was engaged with to enter into the wedlock, went down fighting the infiltrators in Kargil just after he had turned 25.

Describing Captain Vikram as a ``wonderful person``, Swarna asked for a flower from the wreath laid on his body at Delhi airport as something that would remind her of his presence forever.

Twenty two-year-old Lieutenant Saurabh Kalia, who was tortured by his Pakistani captors for several days before being killed, did not live long enough to receive his first pay packet as an officer.

His first posting was Kargil where he volunteered to lead a patrol on May 14 after signs of infiltration were detected by Indian authorities. But the valiant officer, the youngest life lost to the battle, was not destined to complete even six months of service and celebrate his 23rd birthday on June 29.

Lt Kalia’s severely mutilated body, bearing signs of barbaric torture over a prolonged period, was handed over to his mother on the eve of the visit of Pakistani Foreign Secretary Sartaj Aziz for ``peace talks’’.

But it was too much for her to bear, and she suffered a heart attack. Even from her sick-bed, Lt Kalia’s mother said she was proud of her son that he volunteered for the risky operation. His younger brother Vaibhav, 19, chided grieving well-wishers saying: ``To cry would be an insult to him.``

Lt Hanifuddin, 24, whose mother is still waiting for her son’s body, was an Army Service Corps (ASC) officer, serving his mandatory three-year attachment with the Rajputana Rifles.

One year later, Lt Hanif would have been out of an active combat role and leading a more comfortable life.

But being an ASC officer did not deter Lt Hanif to volunteer for operations and he laid down his life fighting valiantly against the intruders exactly two years after he was commissioned on June 7, 1997.

His younger brother Sameer, wanted Lt Hanif to release his debut music album, that had been a smash hit among troops in his regiment. But fate had willed it otherwise.

The happy prospect of celebrating his first wedding anniversary was awaiting Maj R.S. Adhikari of the 18, Grenadiers, when he went down fighting the intruders in an operation to capture the strategic Tololing Heights in the Kargil sector.

Major Adhikari was hopeful of getting leave after the operation to be home on June 9 for his wedding anniversary, but was seven days off the mark when he died on June 2 along with Lieut Col R. Vishwanath.

Capt Amol Kalia came to New Delhi, a peace posting after serving in the Siachen.

Before he could even get ``acclimatised`` to Delhi, he was recalled to fight the intruders in Kargil and given a ``15 per cent chance`` to carry out the operation he volunteered for.

Conquering odds with valour, Captain Kalia did his parents proud by making the supreme sacrifice and his father remarked: ``I am proud my son took enemy bullets in his chest.``

A third generation officer Maj Manoj Talwar left the more lucrative option of becoming an Army doctor when he chose to join the National Defence Academy (NDA) after being selected for both the NDA and the Armed Forces Medical College (AFMC).

His father Capt (retd) P.L. Talwar is sad but proud as he lost his son for the motherland.

The wife of Sepoy Sanjay Singh could not bear the news of her husband ``missing in action`` and committed suicide leaving nine-year-old Nidhi and seven-year-old Gaurav orphaned.

The widow of Nayab Subedar Mangej Singh wants to send all her three sons to the front to defend the country.

``I shall not hesitate to send all my three sons to the front and will be proud if they die defending the country like their father``, swore Santosh Kanwar over her husband’s pyre.

Sq Ld Ajay Ahuja was only trying to help in the rescue of his buddy Flt Lt K. Nachiketa when his MIG-21 was brought down by a Pakistani missile on May 27.

Squadron Leader Ahuja left his four-year-old son Ankush without a father.

For two-year-old Dhruv, the import of conducting his father Flt Lt S. Muhilan’s last rites remains an incomprehensible act as he is still unable to understand why his father did not come home the way he had been used to.

Flight Lieutenant Nachiketa’s was the only happy-ending story of the operation, but even he was subjected to intense torture and had to celebrate his 26th birthday as a prisoner far away from home in a hostile country before fear of international criticism prompted Pakistan to release him.

The tales of valour, of promises kept in the most trying fashion, of ruptured relationships and dreams shattered would go on with broken hearts murmuring the immortal words ``When you go home, tell them of us and say, for your tomorrow, we gave our today.``

arjun_m # 75

``you are just a stinking paki.``

Sorry to butt in but he is yours and all his 20+

avataars on chowk.Ask the old timers.

Enjoy the company of your `naagrik`

arjun_m 75

``Can your nerdy geeky professors yield ``babushki`` like the Afghans?????????``

The idiot means `Buzkashi`` which is popular in

central asia.

Arjun.M #too many professors in univ.Indians

Sex Scandal at Harvard Business Review

By Cathryn Conroy, CompuServe News Editor

Suzy Wetlaufer, the editor of the Harvard Business Review, has admitted to colleagues that she had an affair with former General Electric Chairman Jack Welch, reports the Wall Street Journal. Wetlaufer is 42 and divorced. Welch is 66 and married.

Wetlaufer interviewed Welch for a story that was to have been published in the Harvard Business Review, raising serious questions as to her credibility. The New York Post also reports that Wetlaufer has admitted to liaisons with other interview subjects, including some of the biggest names in corporate America. The revelations came to light when Wetlaufer told her superiors that she wanted to pull the story on Welch since she had a relationship with him. She admitted she ``had become too close to Jack`` and might be viewed as being biased in his favor, reports the Post. Wetlaufer also confessed to her staff via an e-mail, saying her ``personal friendship`` with Welch might ``taint`` the magazine`s image. Apparently, Welch`s wife, Jane, knew about the relationship with Wetlaufer and asked her if she could be objective when writing the article. According to the Wall Street Journal, Wetlaufer admitted that ``Jane`s call was one of the factors that led me to pull the interview.`` A source told the New York Post that the romance was common knowledge to Harvard Business Review staffers. ``She was very open about her personal life,`` an insider at the magazine told The Post. ``Some people think she was too open about those things.`` Welch admitted to the Wall Street Journal that a ``friendship`` developed with Wetlaufer, whom he found to be ``quick`` and ``funny.`` Some staffers are demanding Wetlaufer resign

roohi #85: I would be interested in your views on Siachen. Siachen has been going on for 16 years. India is refusing to back off, after having invaded in the mid-80s. Kargil was infact a counterattack to Siachen. It was an attempt to cut off India`s supply lines to Siachen. Does Siachen get any coverage in India? Are any Indians aware of the Pakistanis that have died there, and are still dying there. The Indian General who architected the Siachen offensive, General (retd). Chibber is regularly welcomed to peace talks in Pakistan, even though Siachen is still going on. Why aren`t the Pakistanis hostile towards him? Something to think about.

Do you think India should agree to a bilateral withdrawl from Siachen that Pakistan has been offering for ages? If not, then how exactly can India justify complaining about Kargil?

Your views.....

re: sarwari

i don`t see any posts from me addressed to you? do you? so why is your trap still yapping?

re: ylh

{{ Rsaxena`s answer machine just picked up when I called his home phone a few minutes ago. I have to say I have heard some chutya accents, but this one takes the cake! }}

...beta, looks like you called hamdani palace in pakistan (or is it iran?) by accident...

YLH {

What were you doing calling RSaxena up? Just curious.

What is of course most laughable about this article is that out of 90-odd posts till now, 25 have been from the YLH-sarwari combine alone.

It`s obvious you lack the maturity to even digest what others have to say. you`d rather react instantaneously and get it out of your system, rather than indulge in any sort of meaningful dialogue.

I can`t help but pity you two. It`s amazing that others are supposed to obey every little nuance of social nicety (RSax talking about your self-declared heritage is taboo because it was posted on another board) but you are allowed to get away with statements denouncing all of us across the border or worse still patronising us with ``all Indians are not that bad`` --- a more thoroughly disgusting condescension I have yet to see.

When will you break free of the shackles that prevent you from thinking as an individual. I don`t even ask you to define your ``Pakistani`` identity as lots of people here want you to. I am happy interacting with you as a couple of young idealogues seriously concerned about nation-building, but sadly you are not willing to reciprocate because you are making me and others like me out as something I am not.

Let`s get this straight: Pakistani patriotism is OK, Indian is not, because Pakistanis have much to be proud of in their 55 years of independent existence than India does in its?

Shall we open that to debate then? I don`t mind. But stop cursing me, or else face the consequence of being ignored by me.

And do me a favour, don`t reply to this. For your own development`s sake.

RE: Tantralogician

Each country has its own skeletons in the closet.
India is not a superior specimen. Try this aspect below to compare:


The Observer (London, UK) - Sunday, March 3, 2002
http://observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,660969,00.html

POLICE TOOK PART IN SLAUGHTER

India`s Lawmen Offered Little Protection Against Hindu Gangs Massacring
Muslim Neighbours

LUKE HARDING in Ahmedabad, India

In an alley next to her affluent bungalow, Mrs Rochomal`s mobile phone
was still ringing yesterday. Her son`s jeans were drying on the washing
line. The dishes of her last meal had been carefully stacked, ready to
be washed.

Mrs Rochomal - an elderly Muslim lady - was not in a position to take
her call. Her charred, mutilated corpse lay in the sunny courtyard,
framed by the metal posts of an upturned bed. It was not just the
kerosene that had killed her. The Hindu mob that poured into her home
two days ago had slashed her twice across the face. They had also cut
her throat.

A few clues hinted at Mrs Rochomal`s final terrifying hours: a small
blue address book was abandoned next to her Nokia cellphone. She clearly
knew what was coming and had been trying to summon help while hiding in
her outside pantry.

The fact that Mrs Rochomal lived 80ft away from a police station reveals
a bleak truth about the violence that has convulsed India over the past
four days: it has been state-sponsored.

The authorities have done little to prevent the inferno that has swept
the western state of Gujarat - not because of incompetence but because
they share the prejudices of the Hindu gangs who have been busy pulping
their Muslim neighbours.

Indian troops yesterday finally took control of the rubble-strewn
streets of Ahmedabad, the state`s main city. They took up positions on
the edges of Hindu neighbourhoods. The mood was calmer. But the army`s
belated deployment seemed little more than a political calculation that
the Muslims had now got the beating they deserved.

`Everything is finished,` rickshaw driver Narinder Bhai said, gesturing
at the charred interior of his home and his ruined fridge. `Many people
have been killed here. My wife and children have disappeared. I don`t
know where they are.`

Narinder`s home is almost next door to Mrs Rochomal`s, in the Ahmedabad
district of Naroda, which suffered the worst battering. Hindu mobs armed
with iron bars and machetes burned down the entire colony on Thursday
and Friday.

Yesterday, it was almost completely deserted: a ruin of smouldering
rickshaws, charred family photographs and abandoned homes. `The crowd
was so big, the officers could not control it,` one policeman said.
`They have done their job very well.`

The reality is that the police made no effort to hold back the mob, and
in certain places even joined in. `Several policemen without uniforms
started firing guns at us,` said one Muslim resident, Naseem Aktar, in
the suburb of Bapunagar. `They killed six or seven people.`

The violence - prompted by last week`s gruesome attack on a train
carrying right-wing Hindu activists back from the temple town of
Ayodhya - is clearly an embarrassment for Hindus of moderate views.

In an address to the nation, India`s elderly Prime Minister, Atal Bihari
Vajpayee, yesterday appealed for peace in his country. But Vajpayee`s
own Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) is part of the
problem.

Gujarat is one of the few Indian states still controlled by the BJP. It
has a reputation as a laboratory for Hindu revivalist thinking. Since
sweeping to power in the mid-1990s, the BJP has pursued a communal
pro-Hindu agenda. It has also supported the construction of a temple on
the disputed site in Ayodhya, where Hindu zealots demolished a mosque in
1992. Several members of the present Cabinet, including India`s hawkish
Home Minister LK Advani, watched.

The Ayodhya issue now threatens to tear India apart. The extremist
Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) or World Hindu Council has called for
construction on the temple to begin by 15 March. It has so far not been
swayed by pleas from Vajpayee to abandon its plan.

The official death toll since last Wednesday is now 250 - but few
dispute that the real total is vastly higher. The army has restored some
order to Ahmedabad, and the first bulldozers embarked yesterday
afternoon on the epic task of clearing up.

But in the vast countryside around Gujarat, where Hindu and Muslim
villagers live side by side, local massacres were still going on. On the
national highway leading to Bombay, Hindu gangs yesterday manned
roadblocks and set fire to all trucks driven by Muslims.

Last night, meanwhile, Mrs Rochomal still lay face up in front of her
veranda, her gruesome remains a warning to those who survived the
flames. Her white flip-flops were where she had left them, next to the
shoe rack and a brightly-painted swing-seat. Before being murdered, she
had padlocked her front door. The ferocity that killed her left her home
largely untouched. She was clearly a lady of fastidious habits and
through the windows it was possible to make out black-and-white
photographs of her family pinned to the wall.

- The Foreign Office confirmed the death of Mohamed Aswat Nallabhai, 41,
from Batley, West Yorkshire, who was attacked on Thursday along with
three relatives while on a social visit to the region.

His group was travelling in a minibus when they were attacked near
Himmatnagar, about 100 miles from Ahmedabad.

Two of the men, named in reports as Saeed Dawood and Shakil Dawood, are
missing.

Ayodhya: India`s religious flashpoint

- Sectarian tension in Ayodhya dates back to 1528, when the Babri mosque
was built on the site that Hindus claimed their god, Lord Rama, had been
born.

- There has been repeated tension over the site ever since. In 1859, the
British administration annexed the mosque, creating within it separate
Muslim and Hindu places of worship. In 1949, the gates were locked after
Muslims claimed Hindu worshippers had placed deities of Lord Rama in
their area.

- In 1984, the hardline Vishwa Hindu Parishad party started a campaign
to replace the mosque with a Hindu temple.

- In 1992, an angry mob of Hindus stormed the Babri mosque and destroyed
it. Hindus are now pressing to build the temple at the site.

Ok so we Indians are bigots... we burn our own people... we are a phony democracy.... we are drinking blood of kashmiri people....

Bottom-line.... we are bad... agreed...!! We really are bad... and all you points are taken. All our arguments to justify our deeds are actually a waste of energy.... and we won’t waste it any further...!!

But why do u think that if u convince us that we are embodiment of a Satan... it will get u matter running in your blood....

still on behalf of the society of Satan that is India... I give you an offer.... take away your whatever runs in your blood... we`ll give you another 50 years... mmmm... on second thoughts take 5000...

I wish u don’t die of anemia...

sarwari

hallo..if there are indians biased, indians annoying, indians prejudiced and in important positions where the world hears them, then the only way to `get back` or get equal is by getting ourselves in the same place...how bout we try make ourselves such that 20 years from today u and i are on the panel and not some silly ol indian? it angers me also many times but u gotta admire their propoganda..its bloody mindblowing..why are we always on the defensive? because our propoganda tau door kee baat, even our pr depts are dead half the time...lets do smthbg about that first?..rather than writing about pieces that bemoan the fact that theyre ahead, we need to write about what we can do to make sure more of us are up there (to kik their behinds ofcourse:))

suxena #78,

just admit it, you shouldn`t have brought up those totally `out of context` lines.

very inflammatory behavior. why do you have to egg ylh on. now we`ll have to read two thousand of his emails in response to your stupidity.

thanks a lot

arjun_m

“You also said desis should wear a tshirt with a paki flag to stay safe....”

…your incessant references about this are getting nauseatingly banal….trust me….most americans wouldn’t know if it was a flag or a the latest in cult worship….

Ref sarwari #: 40

[Just today the Baluchistan governor was talking of how every attempt to eradicate preventable diseases went useless because of the floods of Afghan refugees. This is just one of the many chains to our progress.]

Did Pakistan demand as part of the aid given by the US during the Afghan War that the US should provide the vaccines and equipment (refrigeration for vaccines, transport, disposable syringes, etc.) as well as salaries for medical personnel involved in vaccination campaigns throughout Balochistan and NWFP? Don`t you think the US would have gladly complied? But at that time, the priorities were F-16s.

The following piece of information is just for your information and not meant to rub anything in the face of Pakistanis: I met a retired Indian doctor in Madras five or six years back. He mentioned that he was part of a campaign to arrest the progress of leprosy in patients under a UN program. Granted that the state of Tamil Nadu has got an excellent transport network by both road and rail, the retired doctor still didn`t need to do this work because he could have sat at home enjoying his retirement. What prevents Pakistan from doing something similar under UN auspices when the entire population of Balochistan is probably less than the number of leprosy patients in all of India? By the way, this doctor has spent his entire professional life as a government doctor with all the frustration that involves.

And SameerJB in his Reply #: 41 says [By the way, another doctor, a kidney specialist was gunned down yesterday in Karachi]. I remember reading that 53 out of 55 doctors killed in one month in Karachi were Shia. What kind of nonsense is this when your madrassa-educated folks are cutting their noses off to spite their neighbors? Don`t they think they will ever need medical care?

Dear Ras (#95)

I read the account that you cut-pasted from the Observer and many similar accounts. First I was filled with great shame that did not even want to read, then deep anger and disgust took over. My response was that these attacks, and the like of attacks to burn the trains in Godhra, and many many like these before ever since before even you and I were born, are abhoring part of the landscape in the part we come from. NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THIS TURF FROM TIME BEFORE THE PARTITION. Can you answer me why?

I am sure the expressions of Amit, myself, RSaxena, Harimau, Sarwari, YLH, FerozK, Sameerjb, yourself and many others represent different shades and expressions. There were other people expressing similar views in the past too. I have intentionally tried to put the moderate viewer in the extreme ends.

Such gastly attacks can never be justified in any civilized society, democracy or not. This is a cancer in the society, it has existed, exists and would continue to exist, as long people will have differing extreme views. The moderates must contain and marginalize the cancer before it takes over. Indian system failed, whether police looked the other side while the muslims burned, or whether the police was caught sleeping while the innocent burned in the train. Both generated anger.

My biggest concern is that was there a message from the extreme elements what may follow and destroy India and South Asia completely, if Kashmir is mishandled?

In democracy, however defective, the institutions can handle situation and will handle these too.

The riots have been becoming more virulent in India as its democratic powerbase is failing to deliver a single majority party. The coalition form of governance are to stay in India. Its institutions must be reformed so that murders, and criminals do not wield power. India is suffering its equivalent of the U.S. campaign financing. Also even in the U.S. the power of mafia and criminal elements was present in picture in the form of political machinery (Chicago`s famous democratic political machinery), that arose during the prohibition years, and probably continued through JFK murder, Martin Luther King murder.

India needs constitutional reforms at a scale that provides stability at minimal price paid to the criminal element. India also need to act at another scale where minorities and other backward caste and class (I do not subscribe to any of these concepts) are going to get their fair share of the power. This principle and ground reality must be accepted. No one can turn the clock back on this large group, especially as this group acquires greater economic power, and education.

There are proper mechanisms in the Indian election system and political institutions for the minorities and OCB`s to get power, but the political parties at the grass root level have become extremely intolerant and corrupt. This has been one unfortunate outcome as the Congress party, deserted by minority and OCB votes, lost out. If you observe the present U.P. election (a mini microcosm that political India is), you would see the return on minority voters was all that was need to get rid of communal elements from power. This can be repeated. BJP did not get majority vote in the last election to the parliament.

Therefore, a proper power distribution system must emerge, and will emerge.

I believe these riots will fill many many people with this urge to get more and rightful power in these groups and not take power away from this group. The communal elements at the both end of the spectrum will fight.

Correcting the historical injustice on the religious sites, imagined or real, is the price that in my mind the minority will pay to get more politically correct India. I am optimistic this would happen too. Babri masjid committe is now ready to make this commitment. VHP is talking of accomodation. Sometime you wonder, if there is a better alternative to frequent bashing of the extreme elements is required to keep proper checks and balances, because innocents suffer the most.

I read your and Sarwari`s comments with interest about the UC Berkely seminar. Passionate positions and the start of their expressions are healthy. Berkley, in my student days, pioneered platforms of expression of more passionate positions with equally diverse methods to express. So keep at it, as people of Indian origin there would certainly continue to do so. I do hope as a result of such expressions, at the places like Berkeley, viable and common South Asian positions also emerge. BTW, I helped raised and contributed funds, and we are still on the advisory committe of India Study Chair at UC Berkeley.

Thank you.

ANIL KAPURIA