Riots

Asif: There`s no need for that. I wouldnt mention this sh1t to anyone. You`re vibe seems different, like uv trained yourself to approach certain things in a certain manner. Its that part of you that im speaking to (your religious beliefs need to be refined A lot).

As for the rudeness, u know about the field beyond right and wrong... Take this as an opportunity to see things in a different manner. (What iz a better means of correcting a person, a phrase or a punch? Depends on context indeed, yet one is more memorable generally).

That u train your thoughts is obvious. I dono what ur teacher has prescribed but train your actions/physical body as well. This will give u more will power, enabling yourself to see things more clearly. Watch how ur senses react to stimulus. Lay in a tub of cold water and concentrate on not shivering, these things help a great deal. peace.

Well said Hobby :)

Re: Al1

``...On the contrary, BJP will sweep the elections in Gujarat if held today...``

That is what I hear, and that is possibly why the Opposition is not demanding a dismissal of the Gujarat government and imposition of President`s rule. However, I feel that the BJP has lost out in the other states. I, too, heard a political commentator (who happened to be Muslim) state that since BJP`s marginalization has begun, the Hindutva diehards will ensure that if the government has to fall (the likelihood of which has now gone up), it should fall on the mandir/masjid issue. The logic being that the next election will then be contested on this issue.

drumz--i apologise for misunderstanding your words. I thought u were being rude! Yes, to only speak when you are spoken is a great bit of advice. Indeed I am not ready.

A famous Sufi maxim (which may be from a hadith sharif but i am not sure) is ``sleep little, eat little, speak little``.

:-)

May Allah give us the tawfiq to act on this beautiful advice. amin!

Just wondering, would it matter if I was killed spontaneously or after specific considered planning?

The truth is very simple: we kill for petty commerce and we justify it as religion.

YLH

``Every Muslim should be His Own Priest`` Jinnah

Way to go! Not only is this the truth about being a Muslim, it is also has far reaching personal and societal consequences, especially with regard to Justice and social change. It ensures a direct connection of faith, it guards against demagogues who may mislead persons. It ensures Islam remains ``alive`` and relevent.

Reply # 528 shammi

[``...Now it`s become clear that they are FAR from spontaneous, and that the State is involved in them ...``

Yes, now it is quite clear to me, and hopefully to many voters as well. I hope that this realization results in the marginalization of the Hindutva politics, if not the defeat of the BJP.]

On the contrary, BJP will sweep the elections in Gujarat if held today... if most Indian commentators are to be believed. Such is the nature of the intolerant hindu beast. All they (BJP) need to do to win India wide is to conduct this genocide India wide. Simple!

Re: Dost

``...Because that would imply that the people who were behind the riots in Ahmedabad were also behind the riots in Godhra...``

Not necessarily. The response to Godhara appears to be pre-planned (there is simply too much organization that went into preparing lists, coordinating `attacks`, etc. to ignore this). Godhara was a spark (and in that respect, any spark would have been sufficient).

Asif: You took something written and created a new context for it. ``Speak when you are spoken to`` etc means that one should not go out of his way to speak, and he should only address the question being asked. That u arent ready yet is true, the POINT was to take the opportunity as a means to ready yourself.

It woulda come off better if u didnt think in western terms (that im attacking ur ego).

Re: Zafar Al-Talib

``...Now it`s become clear that they are FAR from spontaneous, and that the State is involved in them ...``

Zafarji:

Yes, now it is quite clear to me, and hopefully to many voters as well. I hope that this realization results in the marginalization of the Hindutva politics, if not the defeat of the BJP. The press has played an incredible role in this, IMHO. If I had to depend solely on the print, English medium publications, I would have received the same sterile stories with no apportioning of blame. Now, with the Web (and TV news channels) it is hard to hide.

Reply Drumz

Reply Shammi #523

The organised targetting of minorities also occured in 92 and in 84 - certainly in the Bombay riots many Muslim owned businesses were shaken down for protection money and then, after funds ran out, destroyed.

Perhaps what has happened is that the methodology used by political parties when utilising communal violence has been refined? In the past taking down the name plate on one`s door could avert disaster (many Muslims in Bombay did that, including my relatives - suggested and assisted by the housing society) - hence the preparation of lists in Gujarat.

While this is horrifying, it is also why, IMO, there is such widespread revulsion at what happened in Gujarat. Previously it was possible to believe that riots were spontaneous, and hence an authentic response to events. (A route taken by people who while themselves nonviolent harboured unstated, and unexamined prejudices which assumed provocation by minorities.)

Now it`s become clear that they are FAR from spontaneous, and that the State is involved in them - for the first time middle class India of every religion feels that it`s way of life is threatened by them.

Re: the ulema. There is no universally accepted temporal authority which certifies the sunni ulema. What makes functionally qualifies as a member of the ulema is general acceptance of one`s religious knowledge as authorotative. I believe that the situation among shias (certainly in Iran) is different. Being a student of a member of a well known, and respected, school, is one way this happens. If you`ve followed Tahmed`s comments on this, this is part of the game plan - no intermediaries (of course the ulema don`t like that much, diminishes their importance).

On a segue: neither the VHP nor the BMAC, MPLM and other such luminaries are elected - doesn`t stop them from speaking ``for`` a lot of us. Something is rotten about this.

Cheers

Zafar

sattar2,

Insha Allah I will try to find out for you. Or you can email me at naqshbandijamaati@yahoo.com if you like.

Watch this space..

* * * * * *

drumz, --don`t talk to me in that tone! ``speak when you are spoken to!`` as you put it. I am not a pupil in your class. I will NOT discuss this matter further in public simply because I am not ready yet spiritually for such elevated and delicate matters and *if you are * then you would already know the answers and if you are not then what is the point of wasting your and my time?

Re: Zafar Al-Talib

``...But then how to explain Gujarat? Including Godhra? ...``

That is a tall order (how can ANYBODY explain this madness?), but I will give it a try. Maybe I am completely off base.

Gujarat was very different than previous communal violence in India. At the risk of a gross generalization, past communal riots were spontaneous (over often trivial matters) and were not pre-planned to the extent that the Gujarat violence was -- which was the first of its kind. It is now becoming clear that the mob violence in Ahmedabad was carefully planned weeks, if not months, ago. Muslim shops/businesses/houses were surgically attacked. This required an organization (now it is national -- VHP/Bajrang Dal, and elements of BJP) behind it, and this was missing in previous flare-ups. Thus, given this backdrop, it is possible that animus at the individual level might have reduced (and that is perhaps why the last 10 years prior to Gujarat were remarkably quiet), but a new threat has emerged -- nationally organized communalism that could unfortunately, successfully counter the growing integration of the communities in urban areas. In assessing this threat, Tavleen Singh is correct.

Zafar

``Kaa kahath dudeva? Hamar spookeva (insert appropriate Mallika Pukhraj dadra line here. Khabariya na le is not appropriate.)

``

Zafar, you a UPite!!!

SameerJB #142 you write ``, you are absolutely right about shortage of Punjabi liberal males compared to Urdu speaking males. It is sad. This is the nature of Punjab.``

Your shameless ethnic chauvinism is of course factually unfounded. All such smug little generalizations shed light on is your own petty, narrow-minded way of thinking.