Riots

For Naqshu dear... Pakistan !

http://www.paknews.com/urdu/fashion.php

dost-mittar,

yes that is one opinion of a lot of Sunni scholars that nukes are not allowed in Shar`iah because of the fact that they kill with fire [a right reserved for Allah] and also that they kill all and sundry indiscriminately; however there is difference of opinion amongst Sunni scholars as some also argue that in Shar`iah it is a duty to be able to protect the Muslims and so if your enemy has a nuke then you should also have one for self-defense purposes. It is a question for the scholars to debate. I am a simple layman and follow the scholars!

ylh,

The CALIPHATE [khilafah] was the system of governance first adopted by the Beloved Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam in Madina and it is the form of governance preferred in Islam; why, if that is not the case, are the first four rulers of Islam after the Prophet known as the Rightly Guided CALIPHS and their CALIPHATES.

Only a person totally devoid of Islamic knowledge would claim the Caliphate is not Islamic!

By insulting it you are insulting Islam; so WHAT if Qaid e AZam said what you claim? He is NOT a religious authority! He is only respected because he helped to create Pakistan. And if he said what you claimed he said well he was totally wrong.

You seem to give more importance to the Qaid then to the Beloved Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam! Astaghfirullah!

On Asif Naqshbandi`s Caliphate Nonsense...

Allah Save the World from this `Caliphate` menace.. see Indians, what your Gandhi was trying to save.. the caliphate? Poor Gandhi, I am sure he had no idea.

As Jinnah said:

`This Khilafat is False religious Frenzy` trumped up by the `mad mullahs` (M.A.Jinnah on Khilafat movement quoted from `Secular and Nationalist Jinnah by Dr Ajeet. Also mentioned in Stanley Wolpert`s `Jinnah of Pakistan` amongst other books. )

It is now my opinion, that the Islam that I follow is the right Islam, and the Islam of Naqshbandi and nothing but Jahalat of the sort that Abu Juhl preached.

What is Islam? Humanity, God and the Prophet.

What is Sharia? The distinction between Good and bad.

What is Sunnah? The realism and pragmatism of the Holy Prophet, and not that he ate with his hands.

What is Khilafat? FALSE RELIGIOUS FRENZY. A CONCEPT ENTIRELY ALIEN TO ISLAM.

Shammi:

ACR stands for ``Annual Confidential Report,`` each officer`s annual fitness report which has to be signed-off on by each officer`s CO and the commanders of various higher level formations. My father was concerned that people who up till a few years ago had been Indian citizens living, working and studying in India were coming across the border and effortlessly slipping into the Pakistani Army and becoming officers just because they have a family connection in Pakistan. The security risks of this are obvious. However, while I personally do not know of any Pakistani officers spying for India, RAW would have to be composed of complete idiots if they do not make use of the fact that these officers have very close family in India. Actually, this is a very common problem with many Upite/Muhajir families in Pakistan. For example, General Rahimuddin, former Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff under Zia, Corp Commander, Provincial Governor, and all around scum bag, was the nephew of Zakir Hussain, one of your former presidents. Thats why I was curious if Zafar had any relatives in Pakistan.

Regards.

Asif #479, #477
So there IS compulsion in religion.

RE Roohi # 467

``My huge Khandaan lives all over OZ including Sydney but most are in Brisbane ``

Brisbane? To phir swans aur bomber ki kya zaroorat hai jab Brisbane Broncos hain yahan. Vaise ho sakta hai ki aapko Brisbane may nahi to kabhi na kabhi DSOI may dekha hoga!

Sadna,

please note that at the time of writing i was not 100% sure of what ``the conditions of offensive jihad being present according to the rules of Shar`iah`` ARE but the following quote from a classical islamic manual of fiqh should be helpful:

The “Reliance of the Traveler, (the Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law)”, page 599, says,

``The Caliph makes war upon the Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians, provided he has *first * invited them to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, *then * invited them to enter the social order of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax Jizya…in accordance with the word of Allah Most High:

“Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and Hiss messenger have forbidden – who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been give the Book – until they pay the poll tax out of hand and are humbled.” 9:29 ``

“Reliance of the Traveler”, (A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law), by Ahmad al-Misri, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, published by Amana publications, Beltsville, Maryland, USA 1991.

So now you have your answer. I am not an apologist.

sadna,

your question is totally hypothetical as there IS no caliphate and not likely to be one in the near-future (Allah knows best) so my speculation is pointless in regards to your question. BUT just for the sake of answering, I will say that the caliphate will follow the rules of Shar`iah in this matter which would be the following according to my (meagre) knowledge of Islam:

1 Assuming that the Caliph of the Muslims in this future Caliphate sees that the conditions of offensive jihad against India are present according to the rules of Shar`iah he would :

i.) Invite the rulers of India to accept the rule of Islam over them. If they accept then fine. If they refuse then

ii.) He will offer them peaceful relations with the Caliphate if they agree to pay the jizya tax. If they accept fine but if they refuse

iii.) He will declare jihad against them and attempt to conquer their lands only for raising high the name of Allah and the glory of Islam according to the humane laws of war in Islam such as no killing of civilians, nor animals, no burning of trees or crops, no killing of priests or holy men, or women, or the elderly, or children or poisoning of wells etc.

But all this is hypothetical as no such Caliphate exists yet and Allah knows best.

Please be aware that I might well be wrong in some of the details above. And if so I ask Allah`s forgiveness and ask a *knowledgable * brother or sister to correct me (not a modernist).

Asif: ``The sufis and ulama did that by the force of their personalities and the Truth which shone from them.``

It speaks volumes that a sufi would say that, yet support a law which has itself killed numerous sufis. There are serious problems in what u say. Your outlook speaks of introspection, yet your beliefs are tarnished with fear and cowardice. U need to balance yourself. Think before u speak and dont say anything u dont TRUELY believe in. Unless ur not balanced on this world and the next, stable, nuetral, intense and ready to die, your not worth anyone`s time.

That`s sufism. And get serious, find a new teacher and stop wasting ur time with these pointless chowk discussions. How is the training going? Perform activities that cleanse ur mind, u think too much and on the wrong topics. Meditate on ur breath, that`s nuetrality. And always know that there is a reason why u hear what u do, when u do.

PEACE

Re Naqshbandi Sahib (#428):

You wrote “-- i support the blasphemy law because it is a part of Islamic Law”

Now, I have argued that Blasphemy Laws are not Islamic. To support my contention, I provided two references from Quran (4:140 and 6:68) where believers are commanded to merely sever ties with those who blaspheme.

At that point in the discussion, you brought up the issue of “nasikh/mansookh” (i.e., abrogation of Quranic verses).

I’ll ask you once again to make sure I understand correctly… do the scholars you often quote (say Barelvi scholars and/or Jamiaat scholars), believe that some verses of Quran are now abrogated?

Your insightful comments will be much appreciated.

Regards, Asad

Asif Naqshbandi,

First about Jinnah being Shia or Sunni.... just because Shabbir Ahmed Usmani read his namaaz e Jinaza doesn`t make him a Sunni.. Jinnah himself was above this nonsense... Furthermore read some History and you will realize that Kemal Ataturk was also buried according to Hanafi Sunni rites... Now are you going to tell me that Kemal Ataturk was also a `Sunni Muslim`?

THE FACTS ARE: After Jinnah`s death in September 1948, his sister Fatima Jinnah and then prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan had jointly filed a petition in the Karachi high court describing Jinnah as a ``Shia Khoja Mohammedan`` and sought that his will may be executed under the Shia inheritance law. Again, when Fatima Jinnah died in 1967, another sister Shirin Bai claimed her property under the Shia law.

In December 1976, the court rejected Ganji Walji`s plea against Shirin Bai`s claim on Fatima`s property under the Shia law. Which effectively meant the court had accepted the Jinnah family as Shia.



Now, check your facts...

1)Majlis e Ahrar was N0T deobandi.

2)JI is not Deobandi

3)Azad was NOT deobandi. If you knew better you would know that Azad was a first generation migrant from Mecca.

You are without any objective knowledge... and you don`t belong in Quaid e Azam`s Pakistan.

Long Live Pakistan.

Re: Fuzair

Please translate -- what is an ACR? Also, why would your father throw a fit? What was his position? Thanks

Ref wholly-precious-you #: 465

[…it’s the easy way out to say that’s politics and brush it aside…]

I am NOT asking you to brush aside anything. I was merely laying out what compulsions Vajpayee may be in. I have never put much faith in ANY political party in India. Perhaps the only time India was governed by and with idealism was the first 10 years after independence.

[…careful….is that your slip showing?…;) ]

I have been accused of patronizing you. I hope you didn`t take it that way. In your writings, I have found you to be a warm-hearted compassionate person. I wouldn`t want that compassion replaced by cynicism because of all the horrors that we see around us... that was all I was trying to say.

Khuda Hafiz.

Asif #449

``no serious scholar of islam even in amongst the orientalists believes that islam spread in india via the sword``

Whatever. But tell me this, did islamic rule spread in India via the sword or it was invited?

And how many times must you be asked this question before you answer: is your envisaged Caliphate going to take over India by force or Hindus/Muslims are going to invite its rule?

Re: Zafar #330

Interesting. I am just curious as to whether you have any relatives in Pakistan or not. Some, quite a few?, Upites I know (knew) in Karachi in the 1980s would either send to India (Lucknow and Kanpur, that I know of for sure) for brides for their sons and I knew of at least three grooms who went to India to get married and then brought their wives back to Pakistan. Indians are also commissioned into the Pakistan Army. My father almost had a fit when he read the ACR of a new offier posted to his command when he realized that the person in question had done his Matriculation from New Delhi! Under the Divided Families Act, this officer`s uncle, a retired Colonel, had arranged it so that his nephew came to Pakistan, did his FSc and joined PMA. My father grilled this officer and found out that the younger brother was also a cadet at PMA and this officer knew of at least half a dozen other ``Indians`` who were commissioned in the Pakistan Army! Keep in mind that these were officers who were commissioned in the 1980s and now would be Lt. Cols or so.

According to this man, biased though he may be, many Indian Muslims felt absolutely no loyalty to India and, back then at least, tried to get to Pakistan as fast as they could. Obviously you don`t fall in this category but how many, if at all, do you know that might?

Regards.