Regarding the Stupid White Men

Urstruly

The article that you quoted is one of the many theories regarding the expansion of universe. However the researchers who developed it did not hypothesize any ``heaven`` or ``hell``. Let us say that ``heaven`` is another heavenly body/galaxy etc. Then this body should also be contained within the the ``expanding sphere of universe``. How do you characterize this ``heaven`` and how do you find out its distance from earth, say. Does the light emitted by this ``star`` contains any distinguishable lines on the spectrum so as to ``identify`` this body as ``heaven``. If you are taking a verse from some book to calculate the time dilation factor to derive the distance of this ``body`` therefrom, and then say that acc to Hubble`s law this body should be moving away from us at this velocity... then I would say it is a pure baloney . In science, you would first set up a hypothesis defining the nature of this ``heaven``, its characteristic properties that separate it from other stars, the lines on the spectra, say that can used to evaluate your ``characterization`` and prove/disprove your hypothesis. After proving that a body satisfying your ``characterization`` exists and its behavior can be studied, you derive from the first principles its distance and speed of movement away from us based on spectral lines or any other characterization tool developed by you. Even if you want to take what the ``book`` says as a working hypothesis, you have to ultimately prove its existence and characterize it. You know what is pseudoscience- to hoodwink unassuming people by scientific words and force a speculation down their throat based on questionable premise and lacking any scientific logic.

http://www.rediff.com/money/2002/apr/20eco.htm

India has retained its position as the world`s fourth largest economy after US, China and Japan, according to a World Bank report.

India`s Gross National Income in Purchasing Power Parity terms in 2000 was $2,375 billion against $2,226 billion in 1999 while the level of per capita income improved to $2,340 against $2,230 in 1999, the World Bank`s World Development Indicator 2002 said.

The number one position was occupied by the US with a Gross National Income in PPP terms of $9,601 billion dollars in 2000, followed by China with $4,951 billion and Japan with $3,436 billion.

Germany, once the third largest economy, was positioned in fifth place with $2,047 billion.

India`s immediate neighbour Pakistan had a Gross National Income in PPP terms at $257 billion while per capita income was $1,860, while for Bangladesh it was $209 billion and $1,590 respectively.

In the case of Sri Lanka the per capita income was $3,460 dollars while Gross National Income in PPP terms was $67 billion, it added.

Asam Hayat #28 #30 #31: It is difficult to make out your point in these posts, but your following para seems to be most representative of your basic point: ``The Empire robbed and plundered the resources of the indian subcontinent. Giving a few the opportunity to compete against ``their`` best at these universities does not make up for the intellectual and economical subjugation of the ``have-nots`` like us.``

I see a basic problem with this: You equate the British Empire of the with today`s USA. However, these have been two different countries since the late 18th century and it is a very flimsy stretch to claim the US owes what the British Raj took away. If we started drawing up a ledger on who took away what from whom in history, and who gave what, I assure you we would still be working on our accounting books on the Kiyamat Day when the Great Auditor descends to see what we did with our time on earth.

Much better to look into the future than to try and balance books from the past, or to prove who contributed what to human society. Let us appreciate ALL those who have contributed to science and literature and human thought, regardless of their color of skin or nationality or religion. You also note ``competition`` above: The sense of competition is very keen among those of us growing up in resource-scarce economies like Pakistan - the fact (even in Pakistan) is that there is surprisingly little competition in real life. Those who recognize this (or have the emotional maturity to act accordingly) do very well in their careers, and in their social lives, and live much more fulfilling lives. While Stanford may be a good name to impress people with back home, the fact is that you may one day find yourself working for a boss who is today in a community college in the US or in South Asia. This is reality in the USA at least.

And no, I am not a doctor, although I do think you are generalizing too much about Paki doctors in the US - there are smart ones among them, and dumb ones, as in any group of people.

As for the ``ghussa``, I did not intend to sound that way and I had an excellent meal last night. :-)

From CNN, clear proof of racism (heh! heh!):

``Controversial T-shirts pulled by clothing retailer Abercrombie & Fitch this week after complaints they were racially insensitive are now being auctioned on eBay, fetching more than $200 apiece. One shirt shows Chinese laundry workers with conical hats and the phrase, `Wong Brothers Laundry Service: Two Wongs Can Make It White.` ``

#: 52

Akash

Congratulationd for being the 4th fattest kid on the block.

Unfortunately indians fascination with fat & big animals cost them battles after battles with more sleek &manoeverable horses.

Still fat doesnt cut it in the world.Its just coincidence that u.s.a. is militarily powerfull DESPITE being FAT.Like Andre The Giante who unfortunately was diseasesd & died prematurily if you know.

Arthritis,CHD,HTN.,Heart Failure,Diabetes,Cancers,u name it happen to big fat ones!

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Kababi in nightie meets white man in trousers, and white woman out of. Tries to impress white man, and woman. Wears trousers under nightie, Becomes wahabi?

whatever

Temporal #37:

``Death to the whiteman!``

I couldnt agree with u more... Hello?... Is this thing on...?

re: hamidm #43

dude, that`s fcukin hilarious...compile that stuff and sell it...

hamidm #47
The thing about rat worship is that noone mistakes rat-worship for science, non-rat worshippers are not sent to hell, everyone knows rats eat too much of what is meant for humans and hence there are rat-poisons and rat-traps freely available in the market to kill rats when they pose a threat to public peace.

Best of all there is no concept of open-ended license for aggression against non-rat-worshippers, esp in foreign policy. I do think you should fall on your knees again and praise God you live next door to rat-worshippers. I am thankful too, for all our troubles, at least we were spared debates about state funding of jinn power in Parliament.

``........ and stop complaining about the british ...we should be grateful to them for what little civilization we have in the subcontinent ...... if it weren`t for them we would still be running around in night gowns, riding jackasses and building marble mausoleums over dead queens .......``

How true... but that would just be the elite.. with the poor.. we would have mullahs and mahatmas running wild with their theories on God(s)... some of Arabian variety.. others of a God shaped like a Big phallic symbol..

oh wait.. that is still true.

Damn! Civilization interrupted!

:(

Yasser

Akash,

Population of India: 1,029,991,145 (July 2001 est.)

Population of Japan: 126,771,662 (July 2001 est.)

And remember the Figures of Economy are based on PPP and not actual numbers.. while I agree that these comparisons are fruitful. In any event, I don`t understand why the Indians are always out to prove something...

This comparison is as silly as saying Kapil Dev was a better Bowler than Sir Richard Hadlee (or Imran Khan for that matter) because he got more wickets than them... Kapil Dev played some 40 to 50 more tests than the other two gentlemen.

-YLH

DALIT: THE BLACK UNTOUCHABLES OF INDIA

THIRD EDITION

by V.T. Rajshekar

ISBN: 0-932863-05-1, 124 pp., illus., 1995, $9.95



``Every hour - two Dalits are assaulted. Every day - three Dalit women are raped

two Dalits are murdered

two Dalit houses are burnt``

Human Rights Education Movement in India

``The Dalit is not only forbidden to enter the home of a Brahmin but he must also not draw water from the same well, nor eat from the same pot or plate. He must not glance at or allow his shadow to fall on the Brahmin. All these acts will pollute the `pure` Brahmin. The Dalit `is not only Untouchable, but also Unseeable, Unapproachable, Unshadowable and even Unthinkable`... This book should be compulsory reading for those who wish to understand the true nature of the caste system and the suffering it causes to millions.`` Crescent International

Originally published in India under the title Apartheid in India, V.T. Rajshekar`s passionate work on the plight of the Indian Dalits was first introduced to North American readers through the publication of DALIT: The Black Untouchables of India in 1987. This book is the first to provide a Dalit view of the roots and continuing factors of the gross oppression of the world`s largest minority (over 150 million people) through a 3,000 year history of conquest, slavery, apartheid and worse. Rajshekar offers a penetrating, often startling overview of the role of Brahminism and the Indian caste system in embedding the notion of ``untouchability`` in Hindu culture, tracing the origins of the caste system to an elaborate system of political control in the guise of religion, imposed by Aryan invaders from the north on a conquered aboriginal/Dravidian civilization of African descent. He exposes the almost unimaginable social indignities which continue to be imposed upon so-called untouchables to this very day, with the complicity of the political, criminal justice, media and education systems. Under Rajshekar`s incisive critique, the much-vaunted image of Indian nonviolence shatters. Even India`s world-celebrated apostle of pacificsm emerges in less saintly guise; in seeking to ensure Hindu numerical domination in India`s new political democracy, Mahatma Gandhi advocated assimilating those whom Hindu scriptures defined as outcastes (untouchables) into the lowest Hindu caste, rather than accede to their demand for a separate electorate. Rajshekar further questions whether the Brahminist socio-political concepts so developed in turn influenced the formation of the modern Nazi doctrine of Aryan supremacy, placing the roots of Nazism deep in Indian history.

This new updated and illustrated Third Edition includes: Y.N. Kly on the Dalit plight as a warning to African-Americans; Runoko Rashidi on ``Blacks as a Global Community``; the 1995 intervention at the UN on behalf of Dalits by Dr. Laxmi Berwa, and the recent US Congressional Bill 4215 on human rights in India, which marks the first US Congressional recognition of the Dalit plight.

V.T. RAJSHEKAR is recognized worldwide as one of India`s foremost human rights activists and a spokesperson for the Indian Dalits. Combining the essentials of Marxism and the philosophy of the late Dr. B.R. Ambedkar into a new indigenous political philosophy, his writings clarify the caste-class struggle in India. He is editor of the internationally distributed English-language Indian bi-weekly, Dalit Voice, and Director of the Dalit Sahitya Akademy, 109/7th Cross, Palace Lower Orchards, Bangalore 560 003, India.

India`s `hidden apartheid`

`The caste system is based on descent. You are born into it, you cannot choose your caste, buy it or graduate into a different caste`. Paul Divakar, Convenor of the National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights (NCDHR)

India`s caste system divides its population into thousands of social groups, placing the dalits at the bottom of the social hierarchy. The perceived difference between those within the caste system and those who fall outside it (or `outcastes`) is grounded in the Hindu story of creation.

According to the Hindu scriptures, known as `the Vedas` (literally meaning `knowledge`), God created four castes: `the Brahmin [or priestly caste] from His head, the Kshatriya [or warrior caste] from His arms, the Vaishya [entrepreneurs and business caste] from His thighs and the Shudra [or service caste] from His feet (1).` The four castes developed out of the early Aryan class division dating back to around 1500BC, around the same time as `the Vedas` were written (1400BC).

The dalits are often referred to as the fifth class or `panchama`, but this is rejected by many who insist they be excluded from the Aryan social order. As they do not fall into any of these categories they are seen as outcastes.

`Untouchability`

There is very little documentation on the historical roots of the dalits. They are referred to as `the untouchables`, or the `scheduled castes` from the schedules prepared by the British prior to independence. These listed the lowest castes and outcaste groups, including the dalits, for the purpose of positive discrimination.

Under India`s constitution `untouchability` was abolished in 1950, but it is still practised today and referred to as India`s `hidden apartheid`. Dalits usually live apart from caste Hindu communities, either in distinct parts of towns or villages or within dalit villages of their own. They are forbidden access to public wells and expected to use special tumblers for drinking (tea) in public places, to limit their contact with caste Hindus. In many parts of India the dalits are not allowed to enter places of worship and inter-caste marriage is forbidden.

Mahatma Gandhi called them `Harijans`or the `children of God`. But today these people have opted to call themselves the `dalits` from the Sanskrit meaning `crushed and downtrodden`. Almost 250 million people in India fall into this group.

Caste and poverty

Caste and poverty are intertwined and lack of social status lies at the root of dalit poverty. The policies of the Indian government focus on alleviating economic deprivation by providing education, employment and public services rather than freeing people from the social constraints of caste hierarchy.

Despite certain constitutional provisions, oppression and open discrimination of the dalits continues. This affects access to education and medical facilities, and restricts settlement, mobility and employment. For instance, the most menial and often degrading tasks such as disposing of animals and cleaning human waste are always carried out by dalits known as `manual scavengers`. De-humanising behaviour results from the perception of dalits as impure and polluted – `untouchable`.

Thanks to India Abroad, March 16, 2001, www.indiaabroad.com

INDIA UPHOLDS RACISM IN EMBRACING CASTEISM

Delhi conference highlights `hidden apartheid`

By DEEPSHIKHA GHOSH

Dalits at a rally demanding an end to discrimination. A conference on `Occupation and Descent-based Discrimination Against Dalits,` held in New Delhi recently, highlighted continuing caste-based discrimination in India, ahead of the `World Conference Against Racism,` to be held in Durban, South Africa, from Aug. 31 to Sept. 7.

NEW DELHI -- A judge in Uttar Pradesh orders his chamber to be thoroughly washed and ``purified`` with water from the holy Ganga river as the previous occupant happened to be a Dalit (former untouchable); a prosecutor, defending a policeman who had beaten a Dalit to death, claims in the Gujarat High Court that the law ``differed from person to person`` -- he is promoted, not penalized, after he makes this statement; in a village in southern India, a 10-year-old girl is refused entry to a temple and the priest throws away her offering because she belongs to a low caste. The spate of testimonials presented at a recently-concluded conference on the treatment of the Dalits underline that, till this day, such incidents recur with horrifying regularity in almost every part of the country. The global conference on `Occupation and Descent-based Discrimination Against Dalits` in India, was held here from March 1 to 4, as a run-up to a United Nations `World Conference against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance` -- more simply referred to as the `World Conference Against Racism (WCAR)` -- to be held in Durban, South Africa, from Aug. 31 to Sept. 7. The Delhi conference was part of similar regional meetings being held elsewhere in the world to identify communities which continue to experience discrimination based on occupation and descent, in order to draw international attention to their plight at the WCAR in Durban. The speakers at the New Delhi conference quoted testimonies and recent studies to show how discriminatory treatment on the basis of caste is an everyday reality for the 170 million Dalits in India -- despite the fact that the man who heads the nation, President K.R. Narayanan, is also a Dalit. They maintained that from the Dalit perspective, the WCAR was a rare opportunity to highlight India`s ``hidden apartheid`` at the international level. The Delhi conference`s organizers highlighted the fact that at the forthcoming U.N. meet, the Atal Bihari Vajpayee government intends to maintain that there is no racial discrimination in this country. The government`s case rests on a simple play of words -- that caste cannot be classified as race. The organizers said the U.N. has taken note of reports that Dalits (literally meaning ``the oppressed``) are often prevented from using public wells or from entering cafes or restaurants, and their children are sometimes separated from other children in schools. The children are often not allowed to play in non-Dalit localities. According to a study conducted by the National Commission for Scheduled Castes and Tribes, two Dalits are assaulted every hour and each day, three Dalit women and children are raped, two Dalits are murdered, and at least two Dalit houses are torched. A study by the National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights (NCDHR) shows how, according to the Hindu religion, the caste system is often taken as an inevitable and irreversible state, leading to the social and physical isolation of Dalits, beginning from childhood. The participants at the Delhi Dalit conference said the increased visibility of what they termed India`s ``dirty secret,`` along with strong international commitment, would help intensify pressure on the Indian government to implement its anti-discrimination laws. They pointed out that it was unified global criticism that ultimately brought an end to apartheid in South Africa. According to NCDHR convener Martin Makwan, it is not important for the U.N. conference to decide whether caste is different from race, but whether caste-based discrimination is different from racial discrimination in terms of social, economic, political, religious and other rights. Makwan said it was important for signatories of the U.N. convention on the elimination of racial discrimination, who tended to exclude their country-specific problems, taking recourse to narrow definitions, to understand that racism has to be viewed in the larger perspective. The Delhi conference featured tales of oppression from Japan, Bulgaria, Nigeria and Senegal, where tribes such as Burakumin, Roma, Ozu and others, suffered discrimination similar to the Dalits in India. At least 120 delegates from the Asia-Pacific region, Africa, Europe and the Americas participated in the event. But the focus of the conference, held to streamline the agenda for the Durban conference, was on the oppression of Dalits in India, and examples abounded. Paul Diwakar, a member of a coordination committee for the Durban conference, referred to a study conducted in 1997 by the nongovernmental organization (NGO), Navsarjan, in Gujarat, which revealed that in several villages, Dalits were not allowed to vote or were subjected to pressure during elections. In many Indian villages, Dalit houses are almost always allowed only on the outskirts. Elected Dalit members in local bodies are not allowed to sit on chairs. Dalit children have to sit separately in a corner of the classroom, and there are separate cups for Dalits in hotels. In short, the Navsarjan study showed that ``untouchability`` continues to influence public life even in the new millennium. Many bright Dalit students have dropped out of school early, unable to bear the ``apartheid.`` In one school, Dalit children were made to wash utensils after the mid-day meal, while their ``upper caste`` classmates were allowed to play. Another point that came up at the conference was that discrimination was not the result only of racist behavior, and that ``it was subjective.`` As Maja Daruwalla, director of the Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative, pointed out: A Brahmin from India would lose his upper caste status and could become a victim of racism in the United States or Europe. This year`s U.N. conference against racism is expected to focus on the causes and consequences of various manifestations of racism, strengthening existing human rights mechanisms and U.N. conventions and developing practical, action-oriented measures and strategies to combat contemporary forms of racism and intolerance.

Tamil Nadu Dalits want out of Hindu fold

By Papri Sri Raman, India Abroad News Service

Chennai, Apr 15 - Dalit outfits in Tamil Nadu have asked community members to declare themselves non-Hindus, break free from the ``shackles of the Hindu caste system`` and take a pledge that places them ``outside the fold of Hinduism.``

Coming together on the 110th birth anniversary of late Dalit leader B.R. Ambedkar, the representatives of the Dalit outfits repeated the ``fundamental principles of Buddhism,`` a 22-point charter by which Ambedkar swore in 1956 at Nagpur, when he converted to Buddhism.

According to P. Sainath, an Amnesty International award-winning journalist and author, Dalits form 16.48 percent of India`s more than billion-strong population.

``Naangal Indukkal alla, yaarukkum adimai alla (We are not Hindus, nor are we anyone`s slaves),`` speakers and participants declared at the Ambedkar Manimandapam, the venue of the anniversary meeting, here Saturday. Dalit Murasu and the Dalit Media Network organized the memorial function.

``We have not given a call for a conversion to Buddhism. This time we wanted to do more than that. We wanted to remind the people of what Ambedkar said and what he practiced,`` Punitha Pandian, the editor of Dalit Murasu, a well-circulated monthly

magazine in its fifth year of publication, said.

``One needs to first break out of the shackles of the Hindu caste system. One needs to declare oneself a non-Hindu. For spiritual satisfaction, people need a religion. That is the reason for embracing Buddhism,`` said V. Vasanthi Devi, former vice-chancellor of the Manonmani University.

``Bringing Dalit groups into the ambit of Hinduism is a post-Gandhi phenomenon. Gandhi called us Dalits, Harijans or children of god. Now everyone wants to take the support of these backward groups on their road to power. Even the RSS (right-wing

Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh) calls us Hindus. But political issues of economic empowerment for Dalits and land rights remain un-addressed,`` said S. Natarajan, head of the ``Panchami Nilameetpu Iyakkam (Movement for the recovery of land belonging

to the depressed classes).

``When I looked for a flat to rent in Chennai a few months ago, the first question I was asked by my landlord after I had paid Rs.80,000 as advance was `what is your caste`?`` Said Velu Annamalai, an engineer, who has spent 30 years abroad, recalling

a personal experience.

``We only hope to initiate a debate on this issue, given that several groups in the country are already seriously considering this option -- conversion to Buddhism on a mass scale. The All-India Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes Employees` Association, with one million members, has announced that it would be embracing Buddhism on October 14,`` said P.Chandrakesan, a Dalit leader.

``There is no such identity a person can claim as Hindu even if ideologues of Hinduism have been harping on a seamless pan-Indian Hindu identity. We Dalits and Adivasis (another socially underprivileged class) have never been, are not, and shall never be Hindus for we have no caste. Caste Hindus should not think that we are `quitting` Hinduism. How can we quit something we do not belong to?`` he added.

Among others who spoke at the function were Viduthalai Rajendran, the general secretary of the Periyar Dravida Kazhagam (PDK), Tamizh Mariyan, a Buddhist scholar, author Aa Marx and human rights activist S.V. Rajadurai.