Regarding the Stupid White Men

re: Maharana # 75

Right, dude. The country that produced Stephen Gould is also infested with armies of creationists, who spend their lives resisting the teaching of evolution to children!

India, America, or Pakistan - stupidity, superstition, and the slaughter of science by charltans posing as scietists know no geographical bounds.

re: Pankaj

he he...bro...calculus isn`t merely for pointy-headed scientists. Can you, for instance, visualize some beautiful shapes made of rings, cylinders, hemispheres, and cones? Sorry, can`t be more explicit on an open forum :)

Tahmed123.....

I was horrified to read our people are marrying blacks. I think they must be mostly Mohajirs or Sindhis is my feeling. Generally Punjabis and Pathans are proud of their race. I have heard bengalis marry blacks to escape poverty in Bangla Desh. I honestly feel sorry.I do not criticize or condemn , i would have preferred even Pakistani girl to marry nice looking hindu than black. But its their decision and they will have black children and consequences , they know.I feel its not prudent but its their decision. I have learnt in 55 years to mind my business and let people carry their business.

I am sure you know in Karachi about two years ago there was riot as a Pathan Girl ran away with Mohajir Youth. The Pathans in 100s went to court snatched girl in court and took to tribal area and married to some suiter of Pathan blood.Its some times like 1000 years ago. Pathans consider themselves of higer grade race than Mohajirs. In real sense Mohajirs are modern people and keeping Pakistan moving by shear hard work. I appreciate them compared to stone age minded many tribal area people. I always felt ` Mohajir or Indians or Urdus whatever they want should be declared Nationality. Not doing is immoral and wrong also its practical over long term. I am Punjabi but have sympathy for Sindhis and Mohajirs. It is sad there is situation developing like Palestine in Sindh. Natives Sindhis are Rural not Urban PPL and and not able to compete with Mohajirs with their hard work and insurgent energy. All migrants take over natives because of drive while natives loose silently and become aware when big awr over they win few battles.This has created seiged mentality amoung sindhis. If you come here attend meeting addressed by Imad Shah, Dr. Quader Magsi, Mumtaz Ali Bhutto and rage and anger felt by sindhis its frightening. Sindhi rage is real and its not distant struggle. They get horrified when they see Karachi has become indian Urdu, Hyderbad gone, Sukkar about to go what left is lakarana and Thatta and large towns. This peaceful expansion of Urdus they are seeing and feeling outraged like Palestanians. It is not that Sindhi are against Punjabis- we have been here ,Punjabis never changed `Sindhi nature of Sindh` its urdunisation by Mohajirs. We have to understand there are two big cities in Pakistan , lahore and Karachi.One is Punjabi and other is URdu. Sindhis are second biggest nationality with out large city. I will like intelluctuals like YLH, Romair and others think about sindhi discontent.Now I have now problem with studying Jinnah but modrn problems must be addressed by modern ppl.

I will put a reasonable solution.

Mohajirs be decared Nationality. A new state of Urdus be made by division of Sindh with Karachi as state capital. Hyderbad is majority Urdu so Karachi hyderbad and adjoining areas be part of Urdu State. It will be richest state of pakistan. They should give 10 Billion dollars ( decided by dael) to sindhi province to upgrade Lakarana as capital. Also give Sindhi Province to control immigration , note as Sinsdh had no immigration control Sindhis lost.We panjabis and all pakistanis need to understand this situation is not fault of Mohajirs or sindhis. So needs of both need addressed by compromise on both sides. Sindhis feel helpless. Most Expak will be surprised to know Sindh is biggest producer of gas not B.Stan. Sindhi province Rural areas have no benefits but Urdu Karachi and Lahore has gas. Just after 2nd war it became obvious united india is not possible its clear to me sindh need to be bifercated before its it become strangling problem. Just Jinnah felt muslims can not live in India sindhis are feeling same way. Mohajir Supremo has also realiased that and talking of Unity of urdus and Sindhis. But most Sindhis feel its political stand to damage PPP and personally i feel similar.

I feel sindh ( same problem is happening in B.Stan, aggressive Pathan started out numbering local B. people)is going to be aggreviated. Water problem is real at same time bogus, its a vehicle of Sindhi anger.And due to that Sindhis will always complain there is nothing to please them.

Kashmir problem was not solved. We honestly can not do much but damage each other. There are American limits beyound which both side can not go.

I feel Sindh problem can have solution. Still things are not bad. We have military govt. They can bifercate. Just like President Ayub Moved capital wisely and solved problem.Now General Sahib will be supreme leader with unprecidental power for 5.5 Years. He should solve problems of Sindh and B. Stan( developing exactly as Sindh).

I will be looking for intelluctuals to give solutions to solve problems of Sindh. If left for 5.5 years after military rule gone it can be like ` east Pakistan problem` and civil unrest problem with sindhis. Time has changed as General Tikkakhan Methods used in B.Stan or E.Pakistan are out of question.

I call on all to suggest what can be done to save situation.

Best luck to all

Hmmmm... couple of points....

hamidm: really milking this rat-worshipping thread to the fullest, aren`t ya..... but seriously....apart from a little mouse (as opposed to anNy`s horrible cat-sized vermin) being the elephant god`s favourite environment-friendly transportation, do Hindus ---sorry, make that hindoos-- worship rats at all? And re: Ganpoo`s lil helper, the most les horribles do is offer the tired lil squirt a modak or two..... trust you devil-stoners to pick on the innocent and the weak....hamidm, go find someone your own size....

Re: calculus and algebra and all that stuff, WE invented the stuff (yea, this was LONG before TNT, ylh)....but as usual the Marketing Department failed us....so the stinky Arabs and the shallow goras get the credit. Differential calculus was supposed ``invented`` by Sir. Isaac Newton himself--- a Jew of all things!--- Gawdhelpus....

urstruly

....feeling pretty smug, are we? ..... not very original, but works every time .... although you must admit that using the name bashir mehmood, a bonafide idiot who has a well publicised feud with dr hoodbhoy was a little momin-like ......

.... and even though i did not read the article,(i am still grappling with the mysteries of long division) i stand behind my statements - nothing good has come out of organized religion - man has managed to make progress inspite of religion, not because of it .......

.... just yesterday, after biryani and ankle torturing maghrib prayers, i listened in amazement to a couple of phd`s marvel at how the koran had foretold global warming and measured the temperature of the earth`s core .......join a tafseer class and learn all about big bang and the life cycle of an earthworm ..........

ylh #83 My point, as should be clear from the quote you provided, was that affirming the notion that British colonialism was as part of the mercantilist policies. My point in mentioning the Tea Act (which led to the Boston Tea Party in the late 18th century in what became the US) and the Salt Tax (which led to Gandhi`s march to the sea in the early 20th century) was just to give an idea of the vast time and geographical span of these policies. I was not comparing the historical significance of Gandhi`s march to the sea vs. the Boston Tea Party, as you seem to think. Since you mention it: you are entitled to your views, but the fact is that while the American Revolution was no doubt the opening shot for human liberty (and inspired the French Revolution soon afterwards, and certainly must have also provided a distant light to those struggling for India`s freedom more than a century later), the fact is that the Indian Freedom Struggle, along with the Indonesian victory at Surabaya and the assertion of Chinese sovereignty after WWII, was the closing shot in many ways. The shot that brought the colonial era to an end. The freeing of the African colonies after this, the freedom of VietNam from the French, and of the countless smaller colonies elsewhere remained to take place, but in many ways were inevitable after the freeing of the three Asian giants.

However, you are welcome to your opinions on the historical significance of the American vs. the Indian freedom struggle. To me such comparisons are unimportant, since both were important milestones. And the freedom struggle was far more that freedom from the British Raj - it was nothing less than freedom from the concept of the Divine Right of Kings (a concept that we are still struggling with in Pakistan as generals and politicians alike seek to disenfranchise the Pakistani people by claiming authority from God).

Stuka #84 You write ``Sharpton of the welfare rolls. With the girth on him..`` I saw him month ago, staniding on the sidewalk with five or six reporters around him ... he has obviously been on a diet and is now merely overweight.

shankar #82: I would debate with the devil himself, IF I read what the devil wrote and IF the devil had something worthwhile to say. Jay (and a handful of other chowk posters, I may add) is a monotonous single-beat ``hate pakistanis`` or ``hate islam`` drum. I have stopped reading his posts.

This was the first post from progressive that I have read on chowk, but I will take your word for it that he has a ``hate indians`` bent of mind that parallels that of Jay. If I read enough of progressive`s posts, I will therefore probably stop reading them too, given what you say. But as long as I read someone`s post, and if that post seems within the bounds of reason, then I think you will agree that it is worthwhile to debate that post if one disagrees with the conclusions.

Urstruly #88 This was an original idea, I will grant you. So original that it caused you to swing like a pendulum from ``All Indians Bad`` to ``All Pakistanis Bad``. Whether or not you caught a Hamidm fish to bite the bait I shall not comment on, but the Hamidm fish is only one of the many kinds of Paki fish in the ocean.

This post is an exception to my rule to ignore your posts, since I am a fair man and would give credit to the devil (as I was explaining to shankar below) himself if I felt the devil had come up with something original and was not merely singing the same old tunes.

Prem #76 In our ancestral village in East Panjab, they tell me the place used to be full of peacocks, and in fact (or so I am told) a couple of centuries before that hindu women used to observe pardah from them since they had some religious meaning too. I wonder if you or anyone else on chowk has heard of something like this. After the village was settled by some muslims, the peacocks rapidly disappeared (and the muslim`s looked suspiciously well nourished).

PS: I hope I have not given certain chowk posters another reason to hate muslims.

Hamidm #107

.... just yesterday, after biryani and ankle torturing maghrib prayers, i listened in amazement to a couple of phd`s marvel at how the koran had foretold global warming and measured the temperature of the earth`s core .......join a tafseer class and learn all about big bang and the life cycle of an earthworm ..........``

Hami Dum Dum dum

Man now i know where you r coming from .Do you live among the Arabs of Dearborn or near it ?

You are one messed up theological confusion.<

re: tahmed321 # 108

Ha ha! No reason to hate muslims.

Unfortunately, I haven`t heard of that custom. But this does remind me of a comment I read somewhere. It was about how one notices a palpable difference on the faces of animals as one travels from Pakistan to India :)

The one exotic custom in our village that I do recall was called Bargadah (celebration of the banyan tree). Essentially, one summer afternoon women would put on their finest, most colorful saaris; deck up in their finest jewellery; gather fruits, flowers, rice, sindoor etc in a thaali; and march over, in groups, to a huge banyan tree smack in the center of the village. Women would then sing songs, and would tie yellow threads around the banyan tree. I don`t recall what else they did, but I do remember all of us tiny tots would hang along because our patience was always rewarded with money and delicious pua (sweet bread).

I am sad to say that this most wonderful of customs has disappeared. I have such delightful memories of many Bargadahs :(

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Madani #90 When I read ``If i come across snake and `secular moderate`...`` I was getting worried and bracing to be hit with a stick that was reserved for snakes and secular moderates. But then I read the second part of that sentence, where you wrote ``...will run away from seculars.``. And I relaxed, and indeed did a dance singing ``jeet gai, jeet gai``. You see (expak is honest man, if politically incorrect) I must reveal to you that I have deeply secular tendencies. What can I do? I see secularism written all over the Quran - the Quran tells me that God sent all religions; the Quran tells me that God cares more about secular things like good deeds and keeping your word and being kind and gentle. Of course Qazi Hussain and other maulana hazrat know better, but I have been hopelessly brainwashed by the secular message of teh Quran. The Quran goes so far as to say that God holds in lowest esteem those who seek to represent him, which is very insulting to learned mullahs and religious leaders and pirs. And...yes, I must confess...I am also fanatically moderate. Thank God you run away from secular moderates, Mr. Madani, otherwise you will hit me with a stick as I no doubt deserve.

PS Just kidding with you, you are a good man. But leaving Pakistan, I get these strange thoughts in my head...

Maharana #75 Agreed then that all religions are in essence saying the same thing (that is, man cannot know everything, or as they say in Chinese philosophy ``The Tao that can be named is not the true Tao``, a message which resonates in the Mahabharta I believe as well as in the Quran). I find the link between science and religion to be of some academic interest only, consistent with my belief that the religion was never meant to be anything more - nor anything less - than a code of human behavior. The only appropriate link between religion and science in fact is the study of the ancient scrolls (like the dead sea scrolls, and even some studies being done of the earliest versions of the Quran by European scholars which one day I hope the muslim world will be mature enough to appreciate). As an example of this, I found (I have not seen any articles on this subject, but noticed it when studying the Quran and so it is just my own thinking at this stage) one very interesting link between the Quran and archaeology is the story of Noah: the Quran talks not about ``rain`` as the cause of the flood as is commonly assumed but about ``water gushing out of the earth`` that caused the flood. The latter is consistent with what archaeologists have recently started believing was an actual event that took place around 4000 BC: the land mass separating the Black Sea from the Mediterranean gave way, and water from the higher altitude Mediterranean gushed into the Black Sea.

Prem#112

``I am sad to say that this most wonderful of customs has disappeared. I have such delightful memories of many Bargadahs ``

No Sir, it hasn`t. In many villages in U.P. this custom is still alive. I say this because I have had the honour of eating maal-puas not in very distant past(about 4-5 years back). Actually in childhood, I also remember visiting the site of Banyan tree where pooja used to be held :-). Some childhood memories never fade away...

... the white man and his toilet paper ..........

.... i had been in this country all of two weeks and was still trying to figure out why i hadn`t been violated by the legendary promiscuous white woman, when i saw the most amazing thing .... it was one of those defining eureka moments in life, a revelation unassisted by gabriel or the good sweet-smelling stuff from chitral .......

......so i was sitting on a bench at a four way stop, waiting for the bus, feeling sad and looking forlorn, having spent the last seventy nine cents on a six-pack of buckhorn .....all of a sudden, i noticed something amazing: four cars would pull up to the crossing at about the same time, and somehow they would figure out who went first, second and next ...... as a brown man i was confused and perplexed, and my head began to pound as i tried figure out how the white man could figure out this amazing problem .... i looked for hidden lights and secret signals, i looked for burning bushes, and cheating leprechauns........ i drew upon my limited knowledge of queuing theory and stochastic processes, but still i couldn`t understand the satanic algorithm that made this thing work ........

..... this problem, and the mystery of white women who continued to ignore me, consumed me for the entire first semester ..... i couldn`t figure out the science behind the four way stop until, one day, i noticed that the white man relied entirely on toilet paper and did not use the lota ...... eureka! .... so i switched to toilet paper, bought a car and managed to attract a white woman .......somehow, they are all related ........amazing!