The Aga Khani
Farzana Versey April 26, 2002
#80 Posted by cutandpaste on April 29, 2002 9:31:36 pm
Gujaratis mourn across the border
By Bharat Bhushan
Karachi, April 26: Right opposite the Karachi Municipal Corporation building is an archway that leads to the local Swami Narayan temple in the centre of the city’s Gujaratipara. There are about 300-odd Hindus who live in Gujaratipara. They speak Gujarati and teach their children to read and write Gujarati as the local schools have stopped teaching the language.
The gateway to the cluster of Gujarati Hindu households is guarded by a single plainclothes policeman during the day. At night, the residents say, there are two policemen on duty. The population of Gujaratipara is aware of the communal rioting in Gujarat and is, understandably, opposed to it.
The priest of the Swami Narayan temple, Bhauji Maharaj, says: “Whatever is happening in Gujarat is not right. But what can we do from here? I can only say to the people of Gujarat that they should put a stop to the killings. What they are doing is not sanctioned by any religion.”
Harish Kumar, the supervisor of the Hindu Dharamshala next to the temple, says that he no longer calls himself a Gujarati: “We used to declare with pride that we are Gujaratis. But how can we say that now? We feel ashamed of what is happening in Gujarat. This is not insaaniyat.”
Sunil Kashiram, the manager of the Dharamshala, is also upset. He says of his co-religionists in Gujarat: “They are taking religion in the wrong direction. There are some people who want to make political capital out of it. If the violence in Gujarat increases, it will also affect us here. Our government supports us at present. We have a huge temple here. Hindus come here from all over Pakistan. Thankfully, there is nothing to fear as of now. But if the government decides not to protect us by posting policemen here day and night, things can definitely go wrong.”
The total number of Gujarati-speaking Hindus in Karachi, its surrounding suburban villages extending up to Hyderabad in Sindh, is estimated to be anywhere from 20,000 to 60,000. However, no exact figures are available.
There are 11 communities of Gujaratis living in Pakistan. Not all of them are Hindu. They also include Parsis, Memons, Ismailies, Bohras and Ganchis (from Godhra). There are people from Kutch, Bhuj and Marwar.
They used to run more than a hundred Gujarati-medium schools in Karachi. However, in 1971, after the bloody formation of Bangladesh based on a separate linguistic and cultural identity, the Pakistan government asked the Gujarati schools to adopt either Urdu or English as the medium of education. Now Gujarati is taught to children only at home.
However, even today, there are half-a-dozen Gujarati newspapers in Karachi — Millat, Watan, Daily Gujarati, Memon Bulletin, Memon Samachar and Al Zulfikar. The Gujaratis here still lament the closing down of Dawn Gujarati and Pak Samachar.
Farooq Memon, who was born in Pakistan but calls himself a Gujarati because his family came from the Kathiawar region, says: “A murderer is a murderer. He neither belongs to Ram nor to Rahim. It does not matter whether you are a Hindu Gujarati or a Muslim Gujarati. Today all of us feel ashamed of the events in Gujarat. Only one word used to unite us — ‘Gujarati’. But today, I cannot understand what is going on in Gujarat. Even the partition riots did not last this long.”
There was a time, Memon recalls, “when we went to Ahmedabad and the train crossed the Sabarmati, we knew that we were among our people. I don’t know whether I would feel the same if I went now. I have fond memories of offering namaaz twice at the Ameena Masjid in Ahmedabad. But now, I have written to my relatives to somehow come here. We Gujaratis are shopkeepers and businessmen. A shopkeeper can open a shop anywhere. But if his wife and children are killed, how can he get them back?”
Memon, a secretary in a newspaper office and very active in the Gujarati community here, says India should realise that the Gujarati Muslims have made a definite choice — to be Indians. “It has been 52-years since the partition. If the Gujarati Muslims did not see themselves as Indians, they would have come to Pakistan by now. Why have they stayed on? Because they are Indians, just as the Gujarati Hindus you meet here are Pakistanis.”
Sonbai, who lives in the Gujaratipara and has been listening to us discussing Gujarat says: “Baba, galat hua hai (Whatever has happened is not right). We have a song — Bhagwan, mein tujhe khat likhta hoon par tera pataa nahin maloom (God, I want to write to you but I don’t know your address). To my Gujarati brothers in India, I say, I know the address of God. He lives within you. He cannot sanction the killing of another human being.”
By Bharat Bhushan
Karachi, April 26: Right opposite the Karachi Municipal Corporation building is an archway that leads to the local Swami Narayan temple in the centre of the city’s Gujaratipara. There are about 300-odd Hindus who live in Gujaratipara. They speak Gujarati and teach their children to read and write Gujarati as the local schools have stopped teaching the language.
The gateway to the cluster of Gujarati Hindu households is guarded by a single plainclothes policeman during the day. At night, the residents say, there are two policemen on duty. The population of Gujaratipara is aware of the communal rioting in Gujarat and is, understandably, opposed to it.
The priest of the Swami Narayan temple, Bhauji Maharaj, says: “Whatever is happening in Gujarat is not right. But what can we do from here? I can only say to the people of Gujarat that they should put a stop to the killings. What they are doing is not sanctioned by any religion.”
Harish Kumar, the supervisor of the Hindu Dharamshala next to the temple, says that he no longer calls himself a Gujarati: “We used to declare with pride that we are Gujaratis. But how can we say that now? We feel ashamed of what is happening in Gujarat. This is not insaaniyat.”
Sunil Kashiram, the manager of the Dharamshala, is also upset. He says of his co-religionists in Gujarat: “They are taking religion in the wrong direction. There are some people who want to make political capital out of it. If the violence in Gujarat increases, it will also affect us here. Our government supports us at present. We have a huge temple here. Hindus come here from all over Pakistan. Thankfully, there is nothing to fear as of now. But if the government decides not to protect us by posting policemen here day and night, things can definitely go wrong.”
The total number of Gujarati-speaking Hindus in Karachi, its surrounding suburban villages extending up to Hyderabad in Sindh, is estimated to be anywhere from 20,000 to 60,000. However, no exact figures are available.
There are 11 communities of Gujaratis living in Pakistan. Not all of them are Hindu. They also include Parsis, Memons, Ismailies, Bohras and Ganchis (from Godhra). There are people from Kutch, Bhuj and Marwar.
They used to run more than a hundred Gujarati-medium schools in Karachi. However, in 1971, after the bloody formation of Bangladesh based on a separate linguistic and cultural identity, the Pakistan government asked the Gujarati schools to adopt either Urdu or English as the medium of education. Now Gujarati is taught to children only at home.
However, even today, there are half-a-dozen Gujarati newspapers in Karachi — Millat, Watan, Daily Gujarati, Memon Bulletin, Memon Samachar and Al Zulfikar. The Gujaratis here still lament the closing down of Dawn Gujarati and Pak Samachar.
Farooq Memon, who was born in Pakistan but calls himself a Gujarati because his family came from the Kathiawar region, says: “A murderer is a murderer. He neither belongs to Ram nor to Rahim. It does not matter whether you are a Hindu Gujarati or a Muslim Gujarati. Today all of us feel ashamed of the events in Gujarat. Only one word used to unite us — ‘Gujarati’. But today, I cannot understand what is going on in Gujarat. Even the partition riots did not last this long.”
There was a time, Memon recalls, “when we went to Ahmedabad and the train crossed the Sabarmati, we knew that we were among our people. I don’t know whether I would feel the same if I went now. I have fond memories of offering namaaz twice at the Ameena Masjid in Ahmedabad. But now, I have written to my relatives to somehow come here. We Gujaratis are shopkeepers and businessmen. A shopkeeper can open a shop anywhere. But if his wife and children are killed, how can he get them back?”
Memon, a secretary in a newspaper office and very active in the Gujarati community here, says India should realise that the Gujarati Muslims have made a definite choice — to be Indians. “It has been 52-years since the partition. If the Gujarati Muslims did not see themselves as Indians, they would have come to Pakistan by now. Why have they stayed on? Because they are Indians, just as the Gujarati Hindus you meet here are Pakistanis.”
Sonbai, who lives in the Gujaratipara and has been listening to us discussing Gujarat says: “Baba, galat hua hai (Whatever has happened is not right). We have a song — Bhagwan, mein tujhe khat likhta hoon par tera pataa nahin maloom (God, I want to write to you but I don’t know your address). To my Gujarati brothers in India, I say, I know the address of God. He lives within you. He cannot sanction the killing of another human being.”
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#79 Posted by ylh on April 29, 2002 9:31:36 pm
Alpha Hussain,
I came across two quotes today:
`The greatest quality of Jinnah that was deeply and unfailingly remembered was his honesty. Many of his contemporaries were genuinely fond of him. They would vouch for him that he was a man without malice and had a stern sense of justice. Many believed that his rudeness was linked with his deep honesty. M A Jinnah`s integrity was considered beyond blemish`
(Prakash Almaeda page 30 Jinnah the Man of Destiny.Kalpaz Publications dehli 2001)
They began calling him.. the honest Mr.Jinnah...There was one thing certain about Mohammed Ali Jinnah... He was always honest and he was never insincere... Jinnah had no vices.
(Leonard Mosley page 69 The Last days of the British Raj)
Also Dr Ambedkar, the architect of your constitution, considered Jinnah the most incorruptible politician in the entire South Asia...
So you little punk, instead of making outrageously stupid statements like the one you did ... why don`t you back up your nonsensical and bigoted nonsense with some facts and sources... Ofcourse, your kind never knew how to fair. As for Col.Shahnawaz, I seriously have little time for a Nazi Sympathizer, like I have said before.
-YLH
I came across two quotes today:
`The greatest quality of Jinnah that was deeply and unfailingly remembered was his honesty. Many of his contemporaries were genuinely fond of him. They would vouch for him that he was a man without malice and had a stern sense of justice. Many believed that his rudeness was linked with his deep honesty. M A Jinnah`s integrity was considered beyond blemish`
(Prakash Almaeda page 30 Jinnah the Man of Destiny.Kalpaz Publications dehli 2001)
They began calling him.. the honest Mr.Jinnah...There was one thing certain about Mohammed Ali Jinnah... He was always honest and he was never insincere... Jinnah had no vices.
(Leonard Mosley page 69 The Last days of the British Raj)
Also Dr Ambedkar, the architect of your constitution, considered Jinnah the most incorruptible politician in the entire South Asia...
So you little punk, instead of making outrageously stupid statements like the one you did ... why don`t you back up your nonsensical and bigoted nonsense with some facts and sources... Ofcourse, your kind never knew how to fair. As for Col.Shahnawaz, I seriously have little time for a Nazi Sympathizer, like I have said before.
-YLH
#78 Posted by notamullah on April 29, 2002 9:31:36 pm
Miss Farzana Versey,
I certainly hope writing is a hobby of yours. I would be worried if you have to earn a living this way. As for you being called a ``hindu basher`` guised as a liberal muslim, I simply called a spade a spade. Frankly, I saw your last few articles a tad (I am trying to be polite) biased.
In this article, there was a little less venom but as usual was devoid of any ``substance`` and was anfractuously boring.
So long.
NotAMullah
I certainly hope writing is a hobby of yours. I would be worried if you have to earn a living this way. As for you being called a ``hindu basher`` guised as a liberal muslim, I simply called a spade a spade. Frankly, I saw your last few articles a tad (I am trying to be polite) biased.
In this article, there was a little less venom but as usual was devoid of any ``substance`` and was anfractuously boring.
So long.
NotAMullah
#77 Posted by fuzair on April 29, 2002 8:16:22 pm
YLH:
Although from Jhelum, I believe, Shahnawaz decided to stay on in India after Partition. Despite all the Indian Nationalist propaganda about Netaji Bose, the INA (more accurately Indian Traitor Army or Japanese Indian Forces) was completely irrelevant to the freedom struggle and certainly was not instrumental in the British decision to leave India. The Japanese took about 60,000 Indian POWs, of whom about 20,000 joined the INA and 40,000 refused to betray their salt, their regiment or the King-Emperor. Of that 40,000, about half died in the forced labour camps, quite a few of them at the hands of die-hard Indian nationalists and INA traitors.
Of the 20,000 Indian POWs who joined the INA, most deserted back to the British the first chance they got. The British realized that the conditions in the camps were so awful, and the punishment for not joining the INA so severe, that most joined simply out of a sense of self-preservation. That is why most INA men were either allowed to rejoin the Indian Army or discharged from military service w/out punishment.
What the British handled extremely badly was who was to be punished for joining the INA. They chose a Sikh, a Hindu and a Muslim (the traitor Shahnawaz) to try in Delhi. While these were all KCOs and so deserved the death penalty for treason, none of them had actually killed any Indian POWs or personally carried out any atrocities. Nothing worse could have been chosen since it catalyzed everybody--led by the self-serving Indian Nationalists--to defend them. Much to my disappointment, Jinnah also, belatedly fortunately, offered to defend the INA accused.
Actually, the first trial was supposed to be of a Captain Burhanuddin who used to personally torture Indian POWs to death if they refused to join the INA and worship the great Netaji. However an administrative foulup, I believe, led his trial to be delayed. So the ones who actually went on trial were much sympathetic figures for the Indian masses.
Incidentally, when Nehru tried to insist that the INA traitors should be reinstated in the Indian Army, the Indian officers told Nehru that they would under no circumstances serve with traitors. I believe he was informed that there would be mass resignations of virtually the entire Indian senior officer corp.
Romair is quite right. IF the Raj had decided to stay, the Army would have been loyal since the Punjab would have been loyal (it was Unionist, remember?) and between the Punjabis (Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims), the Gurkhas, and the Rajputs, there would have been more than enough soldiers to hold India for the King-Emperor. I asked some of my relatives who were commissioned in WWII and friend`s fathers/grandfathers who they would have sided with if the Army had to be used against ``nationalists`` and, to a man, the answer was ``the British.`` BTW, they also thought that the INA men should have been hung for treason.
Regards.
Although from Jhelum, I believe, Shahnawaz decided to stay on in India after Partition. Despite all the Indian Nationalist propaganda about Netaji Bose, the INA (more accurately Indian Traitor Army or Japanese Indian Forces) was completely irrelevant to the freedom struggle and certainly was not instrumental in the British decision to leave India. The Japanese took about 60,000 Indian POWs, of whom about 20,000 joined the INA and 40,000 refused to betray their salt, their regiment or the King-Emperor. Of that 40,000, about half died in the forced labour camps, quite a few of them at the hands of die-hard Indian nationalists and INA traitors.
Of the 20,000 Indian POWs who joined the INA, most deserted back to the British the first chance they got. The British realized that the conditions in the camps were so awful, and the punishment for not joining the INA so severe, that most joined simply out of a sense of self-preservation. That is why most INA men were either allowed to rejoin the Indian Army or discharged from military service w/out punishment.
What the British handled extremely badly was who was to be punished for joining the INA. They chose a Sikh, a Hindu and a Muslim (the traitor Shahnawaz) to try in Delhi. While these were all KCOs and so deserved the death penalty for treason, none of them had actually killed any Indian POWs or personally carried out any atrocities. Nothing worse could have been chosen since it catalyzed everybody--led by the self-serving Indian Nationalists--to defend them. Much to my disappointment, Jinnah also, belatedly fortunately, offered to defend the INA accused.
Actually, the first trial was supposed to be of a Captain Burhanuddin who used to personally torture Indian POWs to death if they refused to join the INA and worship the great Netaji. However an administrative foulup, I believe, led his trial to be delayed. So the ones who actually went on trial were much sympathetic figures for the Indian masses.
Incidentally, when Nehru tried to insist that the INA traitors should be reinstated in the Indian Army, the Indian officers told Nehru that they would under no circumstances serve with traitors. I believe he was informed that there would be mass resignations of virtually the entire Indian senior officer corp.
Romair is quite right. IF the Raj had decided to stay, the Army would have been loyal since the Punjab would have been loyal (it was Unionist, remember?) and between the Punjabis (Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims), the Gurkhas, and the Rajputs, there would have been more than enough soldiers to hold India for the King-Emperor. I asked some of my relatives who were commissioned in WWII and friend`s fathers/grandfathers who they would have sided with if the Army had to be used against ``nationalists`` and, to a man, the answer was ``the British.`` BTW, they also thought that the INA men should have been hung for treason.
Regards.
#76 Posted by Kiran- on April 29, 2002 2:28:59 pm
Farzana, meri pyari behen, kabhi kisi non-controversial topic pay bhi likh liya karo. What ever happened to the ``How I spent my summer vacation`` essays? or ``meri paaltoo billi`` ;) Boy, how soon we forget the 4th grade, tsk tsk. Just felt like picking on you :D
This was an informative essay. You highlighted the history of a community, whose history is rarely spoken of, and is mentioned only in reference to their conspicuous religious practices. This was enlightening.
Having said that, I think your last line:
``wanted an Allah. Dead or alive.`` is completely uncalled for, I can see the sentiment that gave birth to it, but I`m certain,in your writing repertoire something better does exist. This is not in good taste.
Regards
Kiran
This was an informative essay. You highlighted the history of a community, whose history is rarely spoken of, and is mentioned only in reference to their conspicuous religious practices. This was enlightening.
Having said that, I think your last line:
``wanted an Allah. Dead or alive.`` is completely uncalled for, I can see the sentiment that gave birth to it, but I`m certain,in your writing repertoire something better does exist. This is not in good taste.
Regards
Kiran
#75 Posted by Kiran- on April 29, 2002 2:28:59 pm
Farzana, meri pyari behen, kabhi kisi non-controversial topic pay bhi likh liya karo. What ever happened to the ``How I spent my summer vacation`` essays? or ``meri paaltoo billi`` ;) Boy, how soon we forget the 4th grade, tsk tsk. Just felt like picking on you :D
This was an informative essay. You highlighted the history of a community, whose history is rarely spoken of, and is mentioned only in reference to their conspicuous religious practices. This was enlightening.
Having said that, I think your last line:
``wanted an Allah. Dead or alive.`` is completely uncalled for, I can see the sentiment that gave birth to it, but I`m certain,in your writing repertoire something better does exist. This is not in good taste.
Regards
Kiran
This was an informative essay. You highlighted the history of a community, whose history is rarely spoken of, and is mentioned only in reference to their conspicuous religious practices. This was enlightening.
Having said that, I think your last line:
``wanted an Allah. Dead or alive.`` is completely uncalled for, I can see the sentiment that gave birth to it, but I`m certain,in your writing repertoire something better does exist. This is not in good taste.
Regards
Kiran
#74 Posted by alphaHussain on April 29, 2002 2:28:59 pm
Shahnawaz Khan was an Indian. He could not stand that greatest fraud ever born among Indian Muslims-lying, deceiving, manipulating fop known as Jinnah. Shahnawaz Khan was fighting the British. That lying, deceiving, manipulating fop Jinnah was fighting Indians. How could they get along?
#73 Posted by Prem on April 29, 2002 2:28:59 pm
Farzana,
An instructive and well-written piece on a very important and progressive community.
Farzana, there is an idea I would like to bounce off you - an idea I know merely at a theoretical level, and that too in an entirely different context. I would be interested in knowing whether you think the idea has any relevance w.r.t. your community. To the best of my knowledge the idea has not been used before to study the nature of communal evolution over time. So, it is a blind shot.
The idea has to do with the difficulty of staying in the middle. In general, it has been seen that those occupying the middle ground tend to get sucked into the extremes over time. Very many reasons have been advanced to explain this phenomenon. In general, only those groups/individuals survive in the middle that actually have some unique stake in/commitments to the middle, that is groups that do not see themselves merely in terms of the extremes.
Extending the idea to Agha Khanis (without knowing much about them, and relying only on what I have read here), those set of arguments would posit that over time, Agha Khanis will find it very difficult to resist internal and external pressures to move toward some form of ``pure`` Islam (or pure Hinduism, had they seen themselves as Adha Hindus, which they don`t), UNLESS newer generations see something uniquely valuable (intellectually, philosophically, morally) about themselves, uniquely valuable distinguishing them from ``pure`` Muslims.
I am not sure I have captured the idea fully in that one, long, terribly constructed sentence! If you can make sense out of it, let me know what you feel.
re: Hobbyty # 32
Sometimes it is hard to believe that you actually think. Which religious tradition does not have ``irrational conviction`` at its core? Which does not feed on emotionalism, sentiment, and pride to varying extents? Now, I don`t know if all Agha Khanis are bonded slaves of Agha Khan breathing and staying alive only as per his firmans. So long as that is not the case, and Agha Khan serves as some distant symbol of one`s identity, I don`t see any greater irrationality and emotionalism in what Agha Khanis do than in any other tradition.
Akash
Hey, good to meet an Arya Samaji. Did I paint a true picture of your community? No one in my family is an Arya Samaji, and among friends, one never cared to ask. So what do you think, Akash?
An instructive and well-written piece on a very important and progressive community.
Farzana, there is an idea I would like to bounce off you - an idea I know merely at a theoretical level, and that too in an entirely different context. I would be interested in knowing whether you think the idea has any relevance w.r.t. your community. To the best of my knowledge the idea has not been used before to study the nature of communal evolution over time. So, it is a blind shot.
The idea has to do with the difficulty of staying in the middle. In general, it has been seen that those occupying the middle ground tend to get sucked into the extremes over time. Very many reasons have been advanced to explain this phenomenon. In general, only those groups/individuals survive in the middle that actually have some unique stake in/commitments to the middle, that is groups that do not see themselves merely in terms of the extremes.
Extending the idea to Agha Khanis (without knowing much about them, and relying only on what I have read here), those set of arguments would posit that over time, Agha Khanis will find it very difficult to resist internal and external pressures to move toward some form of ``pure`` Islam (or pure Hinduism, had they seen themselves as Adha Hindus, which they don`t), UNLESS newer generations see something uniquely valuable (intellectually, philosophically, morally) about themselves, uniquely valuable distinguishing them from ``pure`` Muslims.
I am not sure I have captured the idea fully in that one, long, terribly constructed sentence! If you can make sense out of it, let me know what you feel.
re: Hobbyty # 32
Sometimes it is hard to believe that you actually think. Which religious tradition does not have ``irrational conviction`` at its core? Which does not feed on emotionalism, sentiment, and pride to varying extents? Now, I don`t know if all Agha Khanis are bonded slaves of Agha Khan breathing and staying alive only as per his firmans. So long as that is not the case, and Agha Khan serves as some distant symbol of one`s identity, I don`t see any greater irrationality and emotionalism in what Agha Khanis do than in any other tradition.
Akash
Hey, good to meet an Arya Samaji. Did I paint a true picture of your community? No one in my family is an Arya Samaji, and among friends, one never cared to ask. So what do you think, Akash?
#72 Posted by soundmeister on April 29, 2002 2:28:59 pm
Re: 12-head
``CATHOLOCITY ??????
Catholics are the most unforgiving christians as far as divorce ,abortion ,& inter religous marriage is concerned
This is not Varsey the Agha Khani speaking nor Farzana a muslim speaking but brain wash of, unadulterated pure indias Convent, blindly english WORSHIPPING ,anglican indian urbanite could be punjabi, bengali maharashtrian``
## Abey gadhe ke aulaad.... kayko apna gadhagiri dikhaata hai? Here`s the dictionary meaning of catholicity from Merriam Webster:
catholicity
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Date: 1704
1 capitalized : the character of being in conformity with a Catholic church
2 a : liberality of sentiments or views (catholicity of viewpoint -- W. V. O`Connor) UNIVERSALITY c : comprehensive range (catholicity of topics)
I assume FV meant meaning #2. And while I`m at it, us Angrez-worshipping urbanites are anyday better than your skyscraper-hating camelhumpers and our very own trishul-wielding bloodsuckers. Long live our tribe. Death to the glenmongers!
``CATHOLOCITY ??????
Catholics are the most unforgiving christians as far as divorce ,abortion ,& inter religous marriage is concerned
This is not Varsey the Agha Khani speaking nor Farzana a muslim speaking but brain wash of, unadulterated pure indias Convent, blindly english WORSHIPPING ,anglican indian urbanite could be punjabi, bengali maharashtrian``
## Abey gadhe ke aulaad.... kayko apna gadhagiri dikhaata hai? Here`s the dictionary meaning of catholicity from Merriam Webster:
catholicity
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Date: 1704
1 capitalized : the character of being in conformity with a Catholic church
2 a : liberality of sentiments or views (catholicity of viewpoint -- W. V. O`Connor) UNIVERSALITY c : comprehensive range (catholicity of topics)
I assume FV meant meaning #2. And while I`m at it, us Angrez-worshipping urbanites are anyday better than your skyscraper-hating camelhumpers and our very own trishul-wielding bloodsuckers. Long live our tribe. Death to the glenmongers!
#70 Posted by subroto on April 29, 2002 12:08:10 am
RE Stuka # 53
Dear delusional HIndian friend face it - Abdul Hamid is just a figment of your imagination. Forget about the roads named after him in various Army Cantts around India (I can remember the one in Delhi & another in Kirkee/Khadki) cos they were probably typos - must definately have been Amit Hari but our delusional minds were unable to read them correctly. Anyway what does it matter, the rest of our country hardly remembers its martyrs so how can we blame the ignorance of outsiders.
And what about General Shahnawaz Khan, Subhas Bose`s associate and confidant. He did serve as a Railway Minister in the Union Government and in 1956 was commissioned by the Government of India to probe into the disappearance of his chief whom he had loyally served. I guess he probably migrated to Pakistan soon after that, funny how the rest of us never knew that.
-Subroto
Dear delusional HIndian friend face it - Abdul Hamid is just a figment of your imagination. Forget about the roads named after him in various Army Cantts around India (I can remember the one in Delhi & another in Kirkee/Khadki) cos they were probably typos - must definately have been Amit Hari but our delusional minds were unable to read them correctly. Anyway what does it matter, the rest of our country hardly remembers its martyrs so how can we blame the ignorance of outsiders.
And what about General Shahnawaz Khan, Subhas Bose`s associate and confidant. He did serve as a Railway Minister in the Union Government and in 1956 was commissioned by the Government of India to probe into the disappearance of his chief whom he had loyally served. I guess he probably migrated to Pakistan soon after that, funny how the rest of us never knew that.
-Subroto
#69 Posted by shahgul on April 29, 2002 12:08:10 am
YLH wrote:
``Again A typical Indian Muslim Lie we have witnessed in the form of Shah Gul... You sir are an ignorant fool. As for Mullah Azad and Mullah Maudoodi.. do I need to say more... This goes to show that the religious conservatives hated the creation of Pakistan.
``
Thank you Sir/Madam, for changing my gender and nationality.:)
``Again A typical Indian Muslim Lie we have witnessed in the form of Shah Gul... You sir are an ignorant fool. As for Mullah Azad and Mullah Maudoodi.. do I need to say more... This goes to show that the religious conservatives hated the creation of Pakistan.
``
Thank you Sir/Madam, for changing my gender and nationality.:)
#68 Posted by Pankaj on April 29, 2002 12:08:10 am
Farzana
You write very well, especially when you are not emotional. This was an informative piece. At least I came to know certain new things after reading this article :-)
You write very well, especially when you are not emotional. This was an informative piece. At least I came to know certain new things after reading this article :-)
#67 Posted by Chunky Pandey on April 29, 2002 12:08:10 am
Betrayal again by Fernandez to glorify Modi & include him into peace maech at the last moment upsetting to Gujrati Muslims .....too recently hurt to forgive at least for NOW.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/front_pa.htm
MARCH IN SHADOW OF MODI ROSHNI
FROM BASANT RAWAT Ahmedabad, April 28: Carrying Atal Bihari Vajpayee?s secular beacon in his person, George Fernandes placed chief minister Narendra Modi ? hero to some, killer to others ? in new light. ?Roshni? (ray of light) was how the defence minister described Modi, recalling Jai Prakash Narayan?s fascination for the chief minister who was then a youthful leader.
?He (JP) looked to him as roshni. He used to mention 10 times a day how impressed he was by this youthful leader,? Fernandes told a peace rally today.
When members of the minority community, some of whom lost their relatives, friends and homes in the fire that has been burning in Gujarat for two months, saw this roshni flickering at the head of the peace march, most decided to stay away.
?I won?t join hands with these people,? said S.B. Syed. ?They have no place in a peace rally,? he said of Modi and members of his government.
With their followers, Syed, a member of the Gujarat Chamber of Commerce and Industry, the rally?s organiser, and the Samajwadi Party state secretary, Khurshid Syed, had come to join the peace march, but changed their minds when they found Modi, home minister Godhan Zadhaphia and revenue minister Haren Pandya there.
?We came because we were told the chief minister will not come. It is a betrayal. We are boycotting the peace march because killers and mass murderers are pretending to be peacemakers,? they said.
The march drew about 1,000 people, way below expectations of a turnout of tens of thousands, despite the presence of several Central ministers ? Arun Jaitley, Harin Pathak and Digvijay Singh ? and some local Congress leaders, who gave the exercise the respectability of not being an entirely government-sponsored event.
Minority community members, standing in large numbers on both sides of the road, held placards that said: ?Modi law of peace, kill Muslims to win election?; ?Modi law of peace, break down Muslims financially?; and ?Modi law of peace, a Muslim life costs nothing, rape them, kill them, police with you?.
Some might have joined ? but most just watched ? the 3.5-km march that began from Manilal Mansion near Kalupur railway station in the minority-dominated area of Lal Darwaja, passing through riot-hit localities that remain stripped of signs of day-to-day life despite relaxation of curfew.
Gun-toting police and Central force personnel stood guard at strategic positions and on rooftops as the marchers walked, carrying banners demanding an immediate end to ?insane communal rage?, to patriotic songs sung by NCC cadets.
Hours before the march, four persons were killed and 18 injured in police firing in the Millat Nagar area at Maninagar on the outskirts of the city.
Hours later, one person was stabbed to death.
Addressing a meeting at the end of the march, an emotionally-charged Modi said: ?Everyone has lost something. What Gujarat now requires is trust between people.?
?It is time to forget the past and to isolate those who are indulging in violence?. No one will be able to disrupt peace and communal harmony if miscreants are identified and isolated.?
Trust is something the chief minister will have to work harder on. Sheikh Memon, a protester holding a placard, said: ?Had we known Modi would join the peace march, we would have imposed janata curfew. You would have not seen so many Muslims today.?
Scores of them looked on from inside their barricaded colonies as the marchers went by. Holding a small baby in her arms, Zareena Biwi peeped through the iron gates.
?Peace is when I can come out and join you in the streets,? she said.
#66 Posted by Akash on April 29, 2002 12:08:10 am
Yasser
Dont mess with our heroes. Abdul Hameed and Shahnawaz were great patriots and will remain our heroes till eternity.
Dont mess with our heroes. Abdul Hameed and Shahnawaz were great patriots and will remain our heroes till eternity.
#65 Posted by Akash on April 29, 2002 12:08:10 am
I too remember reading a story by the name of ``Veer(Brave) Abdul Hameed`` in my high school Hindi textbook. Let me recall from my memory. As far as I remember, he was a valiant warrior known for taking the air out of Paki`s ``famed`` Patton tanks (American donated ones). He single handedly destroyed 3 Pattons and damaged a fourth one using just artillery fire. He is known for restoring the morale of his batallion in the battle which finally turned out to be the ``graveyard of the Pattons``. He was awarded ``Param Veer Chakra``, the highest Indian military award.
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