Farzana Versey April 26, 2002
#194 Posted by cutandpaste on May 6, 2002 9:04:00 pm
MINORITY GROUPS
Hindus, Sikhs say they still face threats in Afghanistan
By Indira A.R. Lakshmanan, Globe Staff, 5/6/2002
HOST, Afghanistan - They no longer have to wear yellow badges like the Jews under Nazi rule, but little else has changed for Afghanistan`s religious minorities, the Hindus and Sikhs.
One year ago, the Taliban provoked an international outcry with a decree that Hindus and Sikhs must identify themselves to the feared religious police by wearing patches, turbans, or veils of saffron yellow, the holy color of the two religions.
Four months ago, a new government took office, promising equal rights for all Afghans. Yet many Hindus and Sikhs say that life is no better - and in some cases, is worse - under the new Afghan flag.
Despite the end of official discrimination and kind words from the new leaders in Kabul, Sikhs and Hindus have no schools for their children, no access to government jobs or university education, no seats on the commission that set rules for electing a new government, and no protection from warlords who have seized their lands and homes.
``During the Taliban, we were first put in jail and then forced to wear yellow turbans and brown skullcaps, but at least we had law and order,`` said Bajan Singh, 27, a Sikh.
A few months ago, he said, his land and house were confiscated by a local commander in this eastern city near the Pakistani border.
``After the Taliban left, it`s turmoil in this city,`` said Bajan Singh, who like many Sikh men uses the last name Singh, as many women use the last name Kaur. ``By night, burglars rob our houses. By day, thieves steal from us. The police station closest to us harasses us.
``One of my brothers was kidnapped by security guards from this area, and we had to pay ransom,`` he said, lowering his voice to a whisper. ``We are stopped everywhere, and many don`t dare to go out of the house.``
Cooped up in walled compounds, a virtually invisible community that is among the poorest in Afghanistan has been overlooked even by the international aid agencies that came to help the needy after the fall of the Taliban. Programs have been created for women and ethnic minorities who were persecuted under the Taliban, but not for Hindus and Sikhs, the only non-Muslims here in any numbers.
Hinduism in Afghanistan dates back at least to the seventh century, when a Chinese traveler reported Hindu kingdoms in Kabul and Ghazni. In 1992, the community whose ancestors emigrated from what is now India numbered 50,000. When the mujahideen defeated the Soviet-backed regime that year, soldiers ran rampant in minority communities, burning homes and raping women, spurring an exodus to India that continued over the last decade of civil war and Taliban repression. The community dwindled to about 2,000 people in seven cities.
Because of their tiny numbers and related faiths, the Hindu and Sikh communities in Afghanistan have merged, sharing temples and residential compounds, even though their coreligionists in India have often been at odds. Those who remain in Afghanistan say they were simply too poor to flee.
Under the former king, Mohammed Zahir Shah, and later the communist government of the 1980s, Sikhs and Hindus held respected positions as doctors, engineers, and civil servants. They had two parliamentary representatives until the early 1990s, when the Islamic mujahideen government banned them from official jobs and college placements, restrictions that have not yet been lifted.
The situation is particularly bad for the 176 Sikhs and Hindus here in Khost, with Kandahar one of two former Taliban strongholds where authorities succeeded in forcing them to wear yellow last year. (In Kabul, Sikh leaders defeated the decree by threatening to move the entire community out of Afghanistan.) Men here were beaten and jailed for three days and then were marched around the town center wearing the new headgear so everyone would know they were not Muslims.
Looking back on that period, Singh considers the Taliban`s discriminatory dress code ``a minor problem`` compared to his current woes. Like many Afghan Sikhs, he wears a Muslim-style skullcap and ignores his religion`s prohibition against haircutting.
A local commander has seized land and houses, even cemetery plots, of Hindus and Sikhs for his personal use, according to community elders. They say that guards at a nearby checkpoint did nothing when a car was stolen and its driver beaten in front of the compound where Hindus and Sikhs now live.
A dozen Hindus and Sikhs who opened video and music shops to capitalize on the renewed popularity of Indian movies after the fall of the Taliban keep their shutters half-closed since two bombings targeted their businesses. Unsigned pamphlets spread before the February attacks warned that those who sell or use ``things prohibited by Islam will face the consequences.``
Video store owners Jagjeet Singh and Seeda Nand escaped injury, but lost $1,000 each in inventory when their shops were bombed. Despite the danger of a fresh attack, they can`t afford to start new businesses. The front of Gopal Singh`s music shop was destroyed by another bomb, and his terrified landlord terminated his lease, leaving Gopal Singh broke and jobless.
``Like other Afghans, we`d like the right to live somewhere else, not just in this compound,`` said Khost community leader Prakash Lal, 76, gesturing toward the dilapidated mud dwellings of the compound, which stretch for blocks.
They also want a new temple, ``so we can pray freely and comfortably,`` Lal said, gesturing miserably at their bombed-out house of worship. It was sacked by a local commander in 1992 to avenge the destruction of a mosque in India by Hindu extremists.
In Kabul, community leader Autar Singh, 39, is more optimistic than Lal, thanks to a recent visit from interim leader Hamid Karzai. Yet Singh admitted his pleas for assistance have yet to yield any results.
The community`s top wish is for a teacher, because their children can`t go to school without enduring hurled stones and insults. In its heyday, Kabul`s Sikh and Hindu community had a school for 5,000 children; today, they have 100 youngsters and not one teacher.
``In terms of freedom, our lives are much better now, and we have good relations with officials in Kabul,`` said Autar Singh, who displays his loyalty to Afghanistan on his office walls, where framed portraits of Karzai and Northern Alliance hero Ahmad Shah Massood share space with posters of temples in India.
``But economically, our lives are approaching zero,`` he said with a sigh. ``All the other ethnic groups are getting help from the government, the aid agencies, or the United Nations. Why not us?``
This story ran on page A1 of the Boston Globe on 5/6/2002
Hindus, Sikhs say they still face threats in Afghanistan
By Indira A.R. Lakshmanan, Globe Staff, 5/6/2002
HOST, Afghanistan - They no longer have to wear yellow badges like the Jews under Nazi rule, but little else has changed for Afghanistan`s religious minorities, the Hindus and Sikhs.
One year ago, the Taliban provoked an international outcry with a decree that Hindus and Sikhs must identify themselves to the feared religious police by wearing patches, turbans, or veils of saffron yellow, the holy color of the two religions.
Four months ago, a new government took office, promising equal rights for all Afghans. Yet many Hindus and Sikhs say that life is no better - and in some cases, is worse - under the new Afghan flag.
Despite the end of official discrimination and kind words from the new leaders in Kabul, Sikhs and Hindus have no schools for their children, no access to government jobs or university education, no seats on the commission that set rules for electing a new government, and no protection from warlords who have seized their lands and homes.
``During the Taliban, we were first put in jail and then forced to wear yellow turbans and brown skullcaps, but at least we had law and order,`` said Bajan Singh, 27, a Sikh.
A few months ago, he said, his land and house were confiscated by a local commander in this eastern city near the Pakistani border.
``After the Taliban left, it`s turmoil in this city,`` said Bajan Singh, who like many Sikh men uses the last name Singh, as many women use the last name Kaur. ``By night, burglars rob our houses. By day, thieves steal from us. The police station closest to us harasses us.
``One of my brothers was kidnapped by security guards from this area, and we had to pay ransom,`` he said, lowering his voice to a whisper. ``We are stopped everywhere, and many don`t dare to go out of the house.``
Cooped up in walled compounds, a virtually invisible community that is among the poorest in Afghanistan has been overlooked even by the international aid agencies that came to help the needy after the fall of the Taliban. Programs have been created for women and ethnic minorities who were persecuted under the Taliban, but not for Hindus and Sikhs, the only non-Muslims here in any numbers.
Hinduism in Afghanistan dates back at least to the seventh century, when a Chinese traveler reported Hindu kingdoms in Kabul and Ghazni. In 1992, the community whose ancestors emigrated from what is now India numbered 50,000. When the mujahideen defeated the Soviet-backed regime that year, soldiers ran rampant in minority communities, burning homes and raping women, spurring an exodus to India that continued over the last decade of civil war and Taliban repression. The community dwindled to about 2,000 people in seven cities.
Because of their tiny numbers and related faiths, the Hindu and Sikh communities in Afghanistan have merged, sharing temples and residential compounds, even though their coreligionists in India have often been at odds. Those who remain in Afghanistan say they were simply too poor to flee.
Under the former king, Mohammed Zahir Shah, and later the communist government of the 1980s, Sikhs and Hindus held respected positions as doctors, engineers, and civil servants. They had two parliamentary representatives until the early 1990s, when the Islamic mujahideen government banned them from official jobs and college placements, restrictions that have not yet been lifted.
The situation is particularly bad for the 176 Sikhs and Hindus here in Khost, with Kandahar one of two former Taliban strongholds where authorities succeeded in forcing them to wear yellow last year. (In Kabul, Sikh leaders defeated the decree by threatening to move the entire community out of Afghanistan.) Men here were beaten and jailed for three days and then were marched around the town center wearing the new headgear so everyone would know they were not Muslims.
Looking back on that period, Singh considers the Taliban`s discriminatory dress code ``a minor problem`` compared to his current woes. Like many Afghan Sikhs, he wears a Muslim-style skullcap and ignores his religion`s prohibition against haircutting.
A local commander has seized land and houses, even cemetery plots, of Hindus and Sikhs for his personal use, according to community elders. They say that guards at a nearby checkpoint did nothing when a car was stolen and its driver beaten in front of the compound where Hindus and Sikhs now live.
A dozen Hindus and Sikhs who opened video and music shops to capitalize on the renewed popularity of Indian movies after the fall of the Taliban keep their shutters half-closed since two bombings targeted their businesses. Unsigned pamphlets spread before the February attacks warned that those who sell or use ``things prohibited by Islam will face the consequences.``
Video store owners Jagjeet Singh and Seeda Nand escaped injury, but lost $1,000 each in inventory when their shops were bombed. Despite the danger of a fresh attack, they can`t afford to start new businesses. The front of Gopal Singh`s music shop was destroyed by another bomb, and his terrified landlord terminated his lease, leaving Gopal Singh broke and jobless.
``Like other Afghans, we`d like the right to live somewhere else, not just in this compound,`` said Khost community leader Prakash Lal, 76, gesturing toward the dilapidated mud dwellings of the compound, which stretch for blocks.
They also want a new temple, ``so we can pray freely and comfortably,`` Lal said, gesturing miserably at their bombed-out house of worship. It was sacked by a local commander in 1992 to avenge the destruction of a mosque in India by Hindu extremists.
In Kabul, community leader Autar Singh, 39, is more optimistic than Lal, thanks to a recent visit from interim leader Hamid Karzai. Yet Singh admitted his pleas for assistance have yet to yield any results.
The community`s top wish is for a teacher, because their children can`t go to school without enduring hurled stones and insults. In its heyday, Kabul`s Sikh and Hindu community had a school for 5,000 children; today, they have 100 youngsters and not one teacher.
``In terms of freedom, our lives are much better now, and we have good relations with officials in Kabul,`` said Autar Singh, who displays his loyalty to Afghanistan on his office walls, where framed portraits of Karzai and Northern Alliance hero Ahmad Shah Massood share space with posters of temples in India.
``But economically, our lives are approaching zero,`` he said with a sigh. ``All the other ethnic groups are getting help from the government, the aid agencies, or the United Nations. Why not us?``
This story ran on page A1 of the Boston Globe on 5/6/2002
#193 Posted by ylh on May 6, 2002 9:04:00 pm
oh Romair...
It is my rejoinder...
Kindly consult `Jinnah Papers` Volume 4 Appendix 9 for complete deliberations of Constituent Assembley... The words `Secular` and `Democratic` have been used to describe Pakistan`s future constitution. Please read the speeches of the Governor General/PPCA and Prime Minister ... Also of special interest is the speech of Kiran Shankar Roy a Hindu member.
Bechara airforce wallah... tsk tsk .. now if you can`t find the `Jinnah Papers` I suggest you hop onto a plane, and come to the East coast.. I will personally escort you to a copy in Columbia University`s library in Manhattan.
-YLH
#192 Posted by ylh on May 6, 2002 9:04:00 pm
Chunkey,
All I can say is that unlike Indians I am not a liar. You can verify the facts. I am a contributor to Salman`s Website junoon.com. He and I have had many a great conversations.
Anny,
Yes I did read it.
:)
-YLH
#191 Posted by ali2 on May 6, 2002 9:04:00 pm
It is rumoured that the FBI is also looking for a moron called pakistanigreywolf.
#190 Posted by DRUMZ on May 6, 2002 9:04:00 pm
harimau: Patriotism is the height of idiocy. You defend india and hindus and they defend pakistan and muslims. Yall Bore me to death... Im not gonna bother bringing the intensity to you cuz i deal with THINKERS, people who look at an issue and judge it based on how ``right`` they think it is - not with how closely they are affiliated with the parties.
Who cares about what is condemned on chowk - Whats your point? Does this solidify anyones point? Then why bring it up?
Then u compare it with 1947. Whom are u trying to fool? Whats the connection?
Then u bring in kashmire??? Is this a joke? Your fukkin with DRUMZ, not ya college professor. Jesus, the intellectual capacity of this site...
Who cares about what is condemned on chowk - Whats your point? Does this solidify anyones point? Then why bring it up?
Then u compare it with 1947. Whom are u trying to fool? Whats the connection?
Then u bring in kashmire??? Is this a joke? Your fukkin with DRUMZ, not ya college professor. Jesus, the intellectual capacity of this site...
#189 Posted by Chunkey Pandey on May 6, 2002 1:58:30 pm
re: ylh
{infact Salman Ahmed the guitarist knew me by reputation.. when I told him who I was, he goes `ah so you are yasser hamdani aka greywolf`..
``)
YLH
impish ,adolescent, immature, child...
Either some one quotes you from Friday Times without knowing you ..WSJ Journalist Dan Pearlman`s Wife Marianne OR
Some one knows you without knowing you ,recognising or seeing you ..SAlman
Politician or NOT ,I can see a celebrity hungry in the making
{infact Salman Ahmed the guitarist knew me by reputation.. when I told him who I was, he goes `ah so you are yasser hamdani aka greywolf`..
``)
YLH
impish ,adolescent, immature, child...
Either some one quotes you from Friday Times without knowing you ..WSJ Journalist Dan Pearlman`s Wife Marianne OR
Some one knows you without knowing you ,recognising or seeing you ..SAlman
Politician or NOT ,I can see a celebrity hungry in the making
#188 Posted by soysauce on May 6, 2002 1:00:53 pm
#184 ZAT
I agree with everything you say, except for this part:``Burning people alive is hardly proof of having successfully bridged any gap except that between humans and animals.``
The problem i have with this is - other animals are not known for using fire and other animals don`t act out of hatred. You have insulted other animals whose turf humans have been encroaching on...
I agree with everything you say, except for this part:``Burning people alive is hardly proof of having successfully bridged any gap except that between humans and animals.``
The problem i have with this is - other animals are not known for using fire and other animals don`t act out of hatred. You have insulted other animals whose turf humans have been encroaching on...
#187 Posted by hansolo_khan on May 6, 2002 12:01:55 pm
Long time ``silent`` reader, first time posting....is it just me or is YLH is beginning to sound more of a hypocrite ( may i add psycho)day by day, and rsaxena is beggining to sound more like a kool person.....just my opinion...no flames please
#186 Posted by anNy on May 6, 2002 12:01:55 pm
yasser, read this?
www.thefridaytimes.com
Press Freedom - an unfulfilled dream?
Mohammad Shehzad
digs into little known facts of the early years of Pakistan when attempts were made to censor the words and ideas of the Quaid-e-Azam and Fatima Jinnah by overzealous bureaucrats and misplaced ideologues
“Expressing opinion or honest criticism of government and its functionaries is one of the duties of a free press, and to preserve this freedom is the responsibility of the government as well as the people. A wise government will always preserve this freedom. When a government tries to compel the press to toe its line, and forces it to hide facts, naturally all sorts of rumors get an upper hand, which is harmful for the government.”—Sir Syed Ahmed Khan
History testifies to the fact that the press in Pakistan has not been allowed by the ruling elites and establishment to work freely since Pakistan’s creation. The first onslaught on press freedom was wreaked by the Quaid-i-Azam’s lieutenant, Mr Liaquat Ali Khan, without the Quaid’s knowledge. Mr Khan was deeply perturbed with the following passage in the Quaid’s address to the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on August 11, 1947:
“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State...Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal, and you will find that in course of time, Hindus would cease to be Hindus, and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.”
To Mr Khan, this seemed like preaching “ladeeniyat” (separation of state and religion), a negation of the two-nation theory and an attempt to secularize Pakistan. So he wanted the newspapers to censor this passage from the original speech while publishing the full text. Accordingly, the then Principal PRO, Mr Majid Malik, issued verbal press advice to all newspaper editors. But Mr Altaf Hussain, the editor of Dawn, paid no heed and insisted on knowing whether it was the Quaid’s instructions or somebody else’s advice. He warned the Press Information Department that if his query were not addressed immediately, he would directly go to the Quaid to seek his opinion on this matter. This frightened the administration and the advice was retracted. The speech was then published in its original form.
Mr Hussain’s courageous stance saved the Quaid’s greatest speech from being distorted but the establishment did not refrain from hatching conspiracies to censor the above passage. Mr Zamir Niazi in “Press in Chains” writes that the former Chief Justice Mohammad Munir once said: “It is clear from this speech that the Quaid spoke with conviction and from his heart. There is tendency to suppress this historic statement, and even seven years later it was described before me as an inspiration by the devil.” Even Z. A. Bhutto, who was a secular-minded person, is said to have made abortive attempts to remove this speech from the records. The saddest part of the whole affair is that one does not find this speech in the Pakistani textbooks of history or Pakistan studies.
There was no greater proponent of press freedom than the Quaid himself. He had unlimited patience and could listen to criticism without getting upset. During the Karachi-riots in 1948, the editor of the Sindh Observer wrote a few peppery editorials accusing the administration of supporting the majority community against the minorities. These provoked public sentiment, creating a law and order situation. When the Quaid was apprised of the situation, his spontaneous response was, “No action should be taken against the paper. Let other publications give him a taste of his medicine!” ( Quaid & the Press, Hayat Aziz Naqvi, Hurriat, December 25, 1982.)
Ms Fatima Jinnah also fell victim to Liaquat Ali’s genius. She was critical of his policies. Once, when she had to address the nation on radio on the third anniversary of the Quaid, Z. A. Bukhari thought two sentences in her speech might displease Mr Khan. He requested Ms Jinnah to omit them. She refused. The speech went live but Bukhari had done the amoral job by fading out the undesired sentences.
These censorships took place during the most “democratic” administrations of the era. And these were directed against the two greatest personalities of this country. The rest, as they say, is history, so ably documented by Zamir Niazi in his three books on the subject.
Besides the establishment’s continual pressure, the Pakistani press has been vulnerable to the intimidation and coercion of local administrations, militant clerics, qabza groups, criminal mafia, ethnic terrorists, and even elements of the most liberal, broad-minded and democratic elites. Despite this, however, many courageous journalists have resisted and suffered as a consequence.
There are currently at least 16 anti-press freedom laws on the statutes. Indeed, the Constitution of 1973 was drafted by a democratically elected government which bequeathed an unacceptably undemocratic and provocative Article 19 to us. This is what it says:
“Every citizen shall have the right to freedom of speech and expression, and there shall be freedom of the press, subject to any reasonable restrictions imposed by law in the interest of the glory of Islam or the integrity, security or defense of Pakistan or any part thereof, friendly relations with foreign States, public order, decency or morality, or in relation to contempt of court, or incitement to an offence.”
In the hands of mischievous governments, this article and Sections 123-A, 124-A, 153-A of the Pakistan Penal Code could be exploited to bar the press from making fair comment on any national issue. Contrast this with the First Amendment of the American Constitution that says: “Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right to the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
The writer is a freelance journalist based in Islamabad
www.thefridaytimes.com
Press Freedom - an unfulfilled dream?
Mohammad Shehzad
digs into little known facts of the early years of Pakistan when attempts were made to censor the words and ideas of the Quaid-e-Azam and Fatima Jinnah by overzealous bureaucrats and misplaced ideologues
“Expressing opinion or honest criticism of government and its functionaries is one of the duties of a free press, and to preserve this freedom is the responsibility of the government as well as the people. A wise government will always preserve this freedom. When a government tries to compel the press to toe its line, and forces it to hide facts, naturally all sorts of rumors get an upper hand, which is harmful for the government.”—Sir Syed Ahmed Khan
History testifies to the fact that the press in Pakistan has not been allowed by the ruling elites and establishment to work freely since Pakistan’s creation. The first onslaught on press freedom was wreaked by the Quaid-i-Azam’s lieutenant, Mr Liaquat Ali Khan, without the Quaid’s knowledge. Mr Khan was deeply perturbed with the following passage in the Quaid’s address to the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on August 11, 1947:
“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State...Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal, and you will find that in course of time, Hindus would cease to be Hindus, and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.”
To Mr Khan, this seemed like preaching “ladeeniyat” (separation of state and religion), a negation of the two-nation theory and an attempt to secularize Pakistan. So he wanted the newspapers to censor this passage from the original speech while publishing the full text. Accordingly, the then Principal PRO, Mr Majid Malik, issued verbal press advice to all newspaper editors. But Mr Altaf Hussain, the editor of Dawn, paid no heed and insisted on knowing whether it was the Quaid’s instructions or somebody else’s advice. He warned the Press Information Department that if his query were not addressed immediately, he would directly go to the Quaid to seek his opinion on this matter. This frightened the administration and the advice was retracted. The speech was then published in its original form.
Mr Hussain’s courageous stance saved the Quaid’s greatest speech from being distorted but the establishment did not refrain from hatching conspiracies to censor the above passage. Mr Zamir Niazi in “Press in Chains” writes that the former Chief Justice Mohammad Munir once said: “It is clear from this speech that the Quaid spoke with conviction and from his heart. There is tendency to suppress this historic statement, and even seven years later it was described before me as an inspiration by the devil.” Even Z. A. Bhutto, who was a secular-minded person, is said to have made abortive attempts to remove this speech from the records. The saddest part of the whole affair is that one does not find this speech in the Pakistani textbooks of history or Pakistan studies.
There was no greater proponent of press freedom than the Quaid himself. He had unlimited patience and could listen to criticism without getting upset. During the Karachi-riots in 1948, the editor of the Sindh Observer wrote a few peppery editorials accusing the administration of supporting the majority community against the minorities. These provoked public sentiment, creating a law and order situation. When the Quaid was apprised of the situation, his spontaneous response was, “No action should be taken against the paper. Let other publications give him a taste of his medicine!” ( Quaid & the Press, Hayat Aziz Naqvi, Hurriat, December 25, 1982.)
Ms Fatima Jinnah also fell victim to Liaquat Ali’s genius. She was critical of his policies. Once, when she had to address the nation on radio on the third anniversary of the Quaid, Z. A. Bukhari thought two sentences in her speech might displease Mr Khan. He requested Ms Jinnah to omit them. She refused. The speech went live but Bukhari had done the amoral job by fading out the undesired sentences.
These censorships took place during the most “democratic” administrations of the era. And these were directed against the two greatest personalities of this country. The rest, as they say, is history, so ably documented by Zamir Niazi in his three books on the subject.
Besides the establishment’s continual pressure, the Pakistani press has been vulnerable to the intimidation and coercion of local administrations, militant clerics, qabza groups, criminal mafia, ethnic terrorists, and even elements of the most liberal, broad-minded and democratic elites. Despite this, however, many courageous journalists have resisted and suffered as a consequence.
There are currently at least 16 anti-press freedom laws on the statutes. Indeed, the Constitution of 1973 was drafted by a democratically elected government which bequeathed an unacceptably undemocratic and provocative Article 19 to us. This is what it says:
“Every citizen shall have the right to freedom of speech and expression, and there shall be freedom of the press, subject to any reasonable restrictions imposed by law in the interest of the glory of Islam or the integrity, security or defense of Pakistan or any part thereof, friendly relations with foreign States, public order, decency or morality, or in relation to contempt of court, or incitement to an offence.”
In the hands of mischievous governments, this article and Sections 123-A, 124-A, 153-A of the Pakistan Penal Code could be exploited to bar the press from making fair comment on any national issue. Contrast this with the First Amendment of the American Constitution that says: “Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right to the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
The writer is a freelance journalist based in Islamabad
#185 Posted by Lajwanti on May 6, 2002 12:01:55 pm
Reply Deepka # 174
“She (laj.)likes my AAmir !”
Whyyu ouare talling methais? WHO AAMIR IS?!!!!!!
Inever knowany Aamir! I amloyalty, I swar!
“ASk Chowk Staff ?”
Chowk staaaaf! Seewhatwhat Deepkais syingto me! Isth isnot abusepaste?
“You have no idea about `Lost Posts`.”
DonotpreTAND!!!!!!! thatyhou are posting apolgy and then chowks taff isnot puytting up. I amnot some pind di tobelievign all this, okay??
Whyy ouare talling untruthinf romn of all? Why?
“How many toads one has to kiss before finding prince charming?”
I NEVERKISS YOU!!!!!
Whyy ouare talling untruth, haiN? (Ali1plzx DONTBELIEVING!!!! Iamshreef, I swar! )
Youtak back immedately! Toad!
“She (laj.)likes my AAmir !”
Whyyu ouare talling methais? WHO AAMIR IS?!!!!!!
Inever knowany Aamir! I amloyalty, I swar!
“ASk Chowk Staff ?”
Chowk staaaaf! Seewhatwhat Deepkais syingto me! Isth isnot abusepaste?
“You have no idea about `Lost Posts`.”
DonotpreTAND!!!!!!! thatyhou are posting apolgy and then chowks taff isnot puytting up. I amnot some pind di tobelievign all this, okay??
Whyy ouare talling untruthinf romn of all? Why?
“How many toads one has to kiss before finding prince charming?”
I NEVERKISS YOU!!!!!
Whyy ouare talling untruth, haiN? (Ali1plzx DONTBELIEVING!!!! Iamshreef, I swar! )
Youtak back immedately! Toad!
#184 Posted by ZafarA on May 6, 2002 12:01:55 pm
Reply Tvarad # 176
“The real question for us Hindus is this: we have successfully bridged the gap between the ancient and the modern through so many thinkers from Raja Ram Mohan Roy to Mahatma Gandhi. Muslims are yet to reconcile themselves with the modern age.”
Tvarad
This kind of arrogance would be laughable if it were not so tragic, given the recent violent actions of both Hindus and Muslims in Gujarat. Burning people alive is hardly proof of having successfully bridged any gap except that between humans and animals.
Of course it is easy (and pointless) to make supercilious comments about Muslims, but don’t you think it would also be worthwhile to find out how and why some criminals were able to burn innocents alive in the name of defending Hinduism without a general outcry by ALL Hindus? (The WTC has prompted this kind of introspection among Muslims, I assure you.) I realise the answers might be less than gratifying to your ego, but unless you know how and why, you won’t be able to stop it in future. Both India and Hinduism deserve a greater effort on your part.
Sincerely,
Zafar
“The real question for us Hindus is this: we have successfully bridged the gap between the ancient and the modern through so many thinkers from Raja Ram Mohan Roy to Mahatma Gandhi. Muslims are yet to reconcile themselves with the modern age.”
Tvarad
This kind of arrogance would be laughable if it were not so tragic, given the recent violent actions of both Hindus and Muslims in Gujarat. Burning people alive is hardly proof of having successfully bridged any gap except that between humans and animals.
Of course it is easy (and pointless) to make supercilious comments about Muslims, but don’t you think it would also be worthwhile to find out how and why some criminals were able to burn innocents alive in the name of defending Hinduism without a general outcry by ALL Hindus? (The WTC has prompted this kind of introspection among Muslims, I assure you.) I realise the answers might be less than gratifying to your ego, but unless you know how and why, you won’t be able to stop it in future. Both India and Hinduism deserve a greater effort on your part.
Sincerely,
Zafar
#183 Posted by rsaxena on May 6, 2002 12:01:55 pm
re: stuka
{In Gujarat, I will be surprised if Gill is able to achieve anything. It is simply an eyewash by the government to get the criticsm deflected.}
...i doubt gill is the type of man who will play along with the govt...he will make a genuine attempt, even if he ultimately fails...if he has political ambitions, it could do wonders for him...it already has for naidu, even though he has only been making peripheral threats to ABV...(i would be glad to see naidu make PM one day...would be the smartest one we`ve had in a long time...)
{In Gujarat, I will be surprised if Gill is able to achieve anything. It is simply an eyewash by the government to get the criticsm deflected.}
...i doubt gill is the type of man who will play along with the govt...he will make a genuine attempt, even if he ultimately fails...if he has political ambitions, it could do wonders for him...it already has for naidu, even though he has only been making peripheral threats to ABV...(i would be glad to see naidu make PM one day...would be the smartest one we`ve had in a long time...)
#181 Posted by sadna on May 5, 2002 11:21:59 pm
tvarad #176
``Given this situation, why are we Hindus struggling so hard to prove that we are more retrogressive than the Muslims as exemplified by their leadership?``
tvarad, if you are saying this about Indian Muslims, this comment is like salt on a wound. The reason is, the nationalist secular Muslims and the ordinary Muslim public has had no problem accepting secular Hindu leaders at national level and at regional level. For this reason, there is not even a national level Muslim political organisation(that I know of)not even a `Muslim caucus` in Parliament.
Its these secular Hindu leaders who have let ordinary Muslims down badly by not taking care of even their security, promoting what can be called a `gatekeeper` concept, namely dealing with retrogressive community leaders instead of dealing directly with the ordinary Muslim public and its real demands/needs.
``Given this situation, why are we Hindus struggling so hard to prove that we are more retrogressive than the Muslims as exemplified by their leadership?``
tvarad, if you are saying this about Indian Muslims, this comment is like salt on a wound. The reason is, the nationalist secular Muslims and the ordinary Muslim public has had no problem accepting secular Hindu leaders at national level and at regional level. For this reason, there is not even a national level Muslim political organisation(that I know of)not even a `Muslim caucus` in Parliament.
Its these secular Hindu leaders who have let ordinary Muslims down badly by not taking care of even their security, promoting what can be called a `gatekeeper` concept, namely dealing with retrogressive community leaders instead of dealing directly with the ordinary Muslim public and its real demands/needs.
#180 Posted by rsaxena on May 5, 2002 8:49:44 pm
re: ylh
{infact Salman Ahmed the guitarist knew me by reputation.. when I told him who I was, he goes `ah so you are yasser hamdani aka greywolf`..}
...amazing...you`re so cool...did he ask for your autograph?...
{infact Salman Ahmed the guitarist knew me by reputation.. when I told him who I was, he goes `ah so you are yasser hamdani aka greywolf`..}
...amazing...you`re so cool...did he ask for your autograph?...
#179 Posted by stuka on May 5, 2002 8:49:44 pm
Dost Mittar:
What are the parallels between Gujarat and Panjab?
None whatsover. There was never really a communal divide in Punjab. There were targetted killings of Hindus and Sikhs, but no mob violence against either community, even after Blue Star and the 84 Pogroms. KPS Gill is a Jatt Sikh, and the Punjab Police is also Jatt Sikh dominated. IMO, the biggest mistake the Punjab militants made was the targetting of families of Punjab Police. This turned it into an intra Jatt blood feud, with thousands being killed. Ultimately the state has to prevail. I have friends here who went to GNDU at Amritsar. He said that even after the end of militancy, the ones who are most bitter about India are Jatts, and the ones who are most bitter about Khalistan movement are also Jatts. KPS Gill was simply a catalyst who organized and motivated a demoralized Police force. The support of Beant Singh helped.
In Gujarat, I will be surprised if Gill is able to achieve anything. It is simply an eyewash by the government to get the criticsm deflected.
What are the parallels between Gujarat and Panjab?
None whatsover. There was never really a communal divide in Punjab. There were targetted killings of Hindus and Sikhs, but no mob violence against either community, even after Blue Star and the 84 Pogroms. KPS Gill is a Jatt Sikh, and the Punjab Police is also Jatt Sikh dominated. IMO, the biggest mistake the Punjab militants made was the targetting of families of Punjab Police. This turned it into an intra Jatt blood feud, with thousands being killed. Ultimately the state has to prevail. I have friends here who went to GNDU at Amritsar. He said that even after the end of militancy, the ones who are most bitter about India are Jatts, and the ones who are most bitter about Khalistan movement are also Jatts. KPS Gill was simply a catalyst who organized and motivated a demoralized Police force. The support of Beant Singh helped.
In Gujarat, I will be surprised if Gill is able to achieve anything. It is simply an eyewash by the government to get the criticsm deflected.
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