The Aga Khani

Farzana,
I have a great deal of respect for the Agha Khani
community, especially because it takes better care
of its own than most of the mainstream.
Their ``half-Muslim`` is sometimes better than our
much touted ``full-Muslim`` when it comes to the promotion of education, health care and financial support to the less fortunate.
``Muslim`` is often referred to in terms of identity and it has to be applied loosely to incorporate quarter, half, 3/4 and 100% full believers.
I saw two ``Half-Muslims`` sharing a beer yesterday. Makes me wonder what hamidm would
say if he encountered them?

Ras

Sunni fundamentalists do not consider Shias to be true Muslims. In Saudi Arabia where Wahabism has a strong hold consider Shia Islam to be a mischief of the Jews. This is what is taught in madrassahs. Look at the way Shias were killed in Afghanistan. Pakistan is going the same route. Shia doctors, professionals are being killed on a daily basis. Most of the persons killed in Shia-Sunni violence are Shias.

Aga Khanis originally were Hindus from business caste (vaishya) from Gujarat state, unlike other Muslims who were converted by Mughals from lower Hindu caste.

Farzana, interesting and informative article for a change.

My maternal uncle had a lower-class, uneducated type (Garage owner) Muslim acquaintance who was very close to him.

I remember him once talking about Khojas and how they were totally un-muslim and how they did unspeakable things. Like: The women would prostrate on the ground when the Aga Khan would arrive, with their hair in the front, on which the Khan would walk by.

Another thing he said in a hush hush tone (since I a teenager then was sitting with them) was how on a particular night every month (the Chand rat you talk about?), all men and women from the Khoja community would get together in a hall, the lights would be turned off, and then everyone would grope whoever they could of the opposite sex and do even more than that (left unspoken).

Would he be referring to the light handshake with the next person, that you mentioned in the article, and that act was blown out of proportion by him?

I could clearly see that he despised the Khojas and didnt consider them `true` Muslims. Is that a sentiment widely shared among the mainstream Muslims?

It must feel really bad to be beaten by both fellow Muslims and the neo-fundamentalist Hindus, between the devil and the deep sea. I sympathize with you.

On another note, I am always amazed by ability and willingness of Hindus to accomodate totally disparate beliefs and practices within the fold, which stands in stark contrast to Muslims in particular and followers of all other Semitic faiths in particular. Even the fundoo Hindus are OK with anyone and everyone (Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, atheists) as long as they dont loudly proclaim themselves to be non-Hindu.

Anyways, enough rambling, looking forward to hear your thoughts.

Satyavadi

What purpose does this crap serve.I have no more interest in Aga Khan than he has in me.Mohommed sat with slaves,Malcom X was not impressed with wealth of Aga Khan to embrace Islam but life of Mohommed that when a slave charged him with injustice, he disrobed himself for the black slave to lash him for being unjust ..no question asked.

Malcom spoke of white & black people in Haj talking oblivious of the colour ,yet Aga Khani cuts at the very HEART of equality by building wall no less than berlin or India & Pakistan. Come to think of it, this Aga khan was dividing the country into Pakistan & India while maintaining that he was Vishnu Incarnate of Hindu god.Aga Khani got there toast buttered on both sides... In India for being friend of Hindu... political ciorrectness?..no way jose .. which i CALL POLITICAL OPPERTUNISM & in Pakistan grabbing the monopoly of muslim consumer to sell to them everything from money to textiles.

I am a muslim by choice & i dont belong in the company of such sects like David Koresh dont belong in the same group as John Kennedy both so called christian..ahle kitab.

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Beautiful writing. You`re in your elements again.

When you say,``[F]or an outsider this might sound nothing even remotely like a religion``, a hindu might disagree. When we are not busy butchering muslims, this is how our religion is observed, mostly.

The hinduism that i used to know was as practical as ismaili. In fact it could easily comingle with that brand of hinduism. This new, ``resurgent``, nationalistic, murderous hinduism, i don`t know.

Used to know a gujarati ismaili woman from kenya married to a frenchman living in the US. Very enterprising she was, as migrants tend to be, and was a nonbeliever who went to the masjid to be a part of the community. It saved her sanity, she used to say..The staying power of ismaili may be because the community tends to be prosperous.

Farzana

A great article... I have the greatest respect for the Agha Khani belief system.. given the progressive and modern ideals of the sect.

I had contemplated on several occasions converting to Agha Khani Ismailism in the past... but now I don`t think it is necessary for me to belong to any particular sect to be modern and progressive ... More over, I am especially grateful for Agha Khan`s services to Pakistan, and also his grandfather who was the founder of the Muslim League... It is this kind of modern progressive Islam which the founders of Pakistan had in mind..

Yet, unfortunately Agha Khanis are not even considered muslims by some circles... a Pakistani sunni expat once informed me that `why do you keep talking about Jinnah... he wasn`t even a Muslim.. he was Agha Khani`.

:(

I rest my case.

-YLH

Cutnpaste wrote

``Aga Khanis originally were Hindus from business caste (vaishya) from Gujarat state, unlike other Muslims who were converted by Mughals from lower Hindu caste``

Great! So now we have found what is so great about Aghakhanism. Hindu racism. I am glad, they have nothing to do with Islam.

The essence of Islam is equality of man with man. People who worship men cannot be Muslim. Even the word Agha which means Lord,or Master is unislamic in it`s essence, as there is only one Lord, Allah, call him by any name.

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very interesting article, thanks Farzana

just a few thoughts, if you could comment on them:

why is there such a need to be identified as Muslim when the Agha Khan is the center of their being?

by the way, Agha Khanis and the Agha Khan have made a lot of significant contributions to Pakistan and India which we are all very thankful for. all in all, they are a peaceful, liberal, and educated group of people.

….hotels, newspapers, resorts and lady sarah aside….the man’s done a lot of good for pakistan…..

Ref shahgul #: 8

[Great! So now we have found what is so great about Aghakhanism. Hindu racism. I am glad, they have nothing to do with Islam.]

I suppose Allah has delegated to you the right to decide who is a Muslim and who is not. Was that a firman that came directly from Allah himself or did Allah transmit that to you through the angel Gabriel?

[The essence of Islam is equality of man with man.]

The essence of Hinduism (Advaita philosophy) is the equality of Man with God.

[People who worship men cannot be Muslim.]

Why do you walk around Prophet Muhammad`s grave? Would it be okay to dig up his bones, grind them up and use them for fertilizer?

Ref cutandpaste #: 2

[Aga Khanis originally were Hindus from business caste (vaishya) from Gujarat state, unlike other Muslims who were converted by Mughals from lower Hindu caste.]

How about all those Rajputs? I thought if one weren`t a direct descendant of Prophet Muhammad himself, the average Pakistani laid claim to descent from Genghis Khan or at least Taimur Leng and at the least peaceful and voluntary conversion from various Rajput and Jat tribes. Certainly there were no bhangis who became Muslims according to what I read on Chowk.

Will the Muslim bhangis please identify themselves?

Ref Anika Zaidi #: 4

[What purpose does this crap serve.I have no more interest in Aga Khan than he has in me.Mohommed sat with slaves,Malcom X was not impressed with wealth of Aga Khan to embrace Islam but life of Mohommed that when a slave charged him with injustice, he disrobed himself for the black slave to lash him for being unjust ..no question asked.]

Ah, but the question to be asked is, was Prophet Muhammad into sado-masochism and a leather fetish? That might explain the incident you describe.

[political ciorrectness?..no way jose .. which i CALL POLITICAL OPPERTUNISM & in Pakistan grabbing the monopoly of muslim consumer to sell to them everything from money to textiles.]

Did you recently read Mein Kampf? Are you sure they are not worshipping the Devil behind closed doors? Do they use the blood of new-born Sunni babies in their prayer rituals?

[I am a muslim by choice]

No; by birth. Get that through your thick head. And anytime you decide that you are through with being a Muslim, they cut off your head. Try saying in public in some nice Wahhabi-Sunni mosque (in Saudi Arabia or the NWFP) that you have decided to give up Islam.

Ref salwar #: 5

[A few Agakhani Ismaili scholars who have compiled a bibliography of Ismaili literature, and others who have access to these documents, are well aware of the fact that the conversion of Hindus to the Ismaili faith has not been firsthand and has gone through more than one phase. But these scholars are also cognizant of the fact that under Article 14 of the Constitution of the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims (1986), any Ismaili who prints, publishes, or circulates any material or makes any statement or convenes a meeting or assembly purporting to be on behalf of, or in the name of, or relating to, the Imam, the Ismaili Tariqah, the Jama`at (a congregation or community), and any Ismaili Council or Institution without the written permission of the National Council within whose jurisdiction he or she resides shall be liable to disciplinary action, and the offender can be expelled from the community.]

Have you tried some ijtehaad on Al-Kitab? So, what else is new amongst you guys?

[It is high time that these kinds of stipulations and restrictions are lifted and that Ismaili scholars have the encouragement and support of community leaders in publishing their findings.]

How about some critical examination of the Quran? Would you support that? Oops; Word of God -- as written down by a man who could not read and write -- and thus immutable.

re: shahgul # 8

``Hindu racism.``

LOL...I can`t believe it...I see a recurring theme. It surely isn`t something TAUGHT to little Pakistani boys and girls, is it? :)

It is a well written article.

I, however, have a problem with cult nature of any Muslim sect, where emphasis is on cult leadership rather than Qura`n and Sunnah; where leadership is considered a conduit to God and not as teacher and guiding light; where leadership guarantees that it will stand up for you on the day of judgment; where leadership is infallible because of its own doctrine. I would rather have schools of thought than cults. Its like being a student of science where you have to and you get the chance to read math, physics, chemistry, biology etc. even though your interst is in biology or math only.

Talk abour ``who started the fire first``....From Harimou to Dost Mittar why do hindu always support the splinter group of Muslims ...Mukti Bahini ,Awami League ,Shia ,Aga Khani .....

Dost Mittar,

Perhaps the affidavit signed by Liaqat Ali Khan, and Fatima Jinnah, that the founder of Pakistan was a `Shia Khoja Mohammedan` will stop Pakistanis from ever declaring Ismailis to be Non Muslims. As for the `islamic` identity.. I am sure it bites the Hinduvtists and the Gandhians (like you ??), the `Islamic identity` of Farzana Versey who is a secularist Indian.

Perhaps, it will be important to recall the Islamic identity of Sir Agha Muhammad Khan the grandfather of the current Agha Khan ... who founded the league and was a major force for the creation of Pakistan.

-YLH

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Dear sir.... aga Khan people are good.

They are generally better good looking white type.

As color get dark they get like animals. So as they are fair generally they are good people. I hope they keep like that and do not mix with hindustani muslims darks.Every race has right to preserve including coal dark madrasees types indians.

Good part of them is their leaders are getting more and more white blood and always pick up white race as brides. Its helps. Its happening all over world. Most all big arabs keeps are white, like Sultan of Brunai has harem of 200 of which 100 are white. Jorden king HH Abdulla is half white and british. I can not blame them to have better quality children. India royal family Gandhi Nehru is european , heard Prnce of India Rahul has Venezulian type girl friend. Our great Khan has white wife, many wxpak are marrying white. This creates bad blood between deshi man woman in usa and uk. It is considered below dignity to marry desi for men. Only Majboors are deshi marries. Its considered fashion to drnk bear knowing its haram and against.Also have g.friends and oversex before marriage and then just like overdraing battery things get useless after marriage and insread of Kazi you go court in usa and take haram divorse and then marry white with children and raise them the sons of devil Kafirs.

But Exak has chance to improve to improve his children but what about majority stuck up in lahore and Karachi is problem. Any solution? Just marry followers of Aga khan or bohari. All Lafangebazi. I need to go bye now. Good look young people you get fairer women then your children will be good white and and your daughters will get good husband. This lafangebazi spend time fiinding wife fair and spend life worring to marry your daughters to nondarkis.

Wow ! What a wonderful introduction to a beautiful and diverse aspect of india and of islam. Thank you for your article!

Growing up in Eastern and Northern India, I had heard of the Aga Khan but had no further information. Lately, i have been impressed with the educational initiatives with the title ``Aga Khan This or That`` but didn`t make the connection.

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Reply #: 19

Prem

`` ``Hindu racism.``

LOL...I can`t believe it...I see a recurring theme. It surely isn`t something TAUGHT to little Pakistani boys and girls, is it? :)``

I was referring to ``class system``. jaati=race. Remember, a low caste Hindu cannot touch the utensils of a high class Hindu. He can however handle his poop.

Deny it is part of your religion.

Harimau

It is not even worth replying to your rabid hatred.

Re: The Non-Muslim Aga Khanis

Yes, I suppose, technically speaking the Aga Khanis are non-Muslims but why should this matter in the least? Don`t forget, a very large portion--35%?--of the Northern Light Infantry is Aga Khani (recruited from Hunzakuts) and they fought and died for Pakistan in Kargil. Just as Christians, Ahmadis and Buddhist Chakmas fought and died for Pakistan earlier while many socalled ``good`` Muslims (traitors all by this reckoning) fought and died for India. I suggest we shoot all the JUI/JI/Lashkar-e-this and that types as they are clearly traitors to Pakistan since they are panIslamists of the worst type.

shahgul,

Shahgul, I don`t deny Hinduism`s relationship with caste at all. In many areas, religions can be stupid, dead wrong, and very cruel without being racists. It is no respite to say that caste is not racism - it is probably worse! Imagine not having even differences in race to ``justify`` an evil system. But we can`t solve the problem of caste by confusing it with what it is not. Caste as an evil entered Hinduism as all evils enter into religions everywhere - it arose with some people`s greed and desire for control over resources and influence, and their willingness to invoke the name of God to justify their evil system.

You may want to consider two facts: caste, as it is understood today, was not always part of Hinduism. It began in its earlier form of varna system - an entirely different kettle of fish nothing at all like the caste system of today. In fact, Gandhi who argued that he would rather see Hinduism die than caste system live, believed very very strongly that we ought to go back to the varna system. That is why I have called Gandhi a re-interpretationist (of course, dalits did not agree with him on this - they wanted caste not to be reinterpreted but to be surgically removed. I agree with them, but Gandhi did not have the benefit I have - of seeing that reinterpreting just does not work in solving deep seated social bigotries).

Caste in its current form entered Hinduism during a long period of decay, decline, and internal disease. The fact that for a long time Hinduism had to protect itself from what it at that time considered alient assualt made matters worse. However, the institution of caste is again being challenged and rejected by many Hindus. Today, caste is both a part of (since many Hindus continue to adhere to it) and not part of (since many Hindus and Hindu organizations do not believe in it anymore, and actively campaign against it).

Caste IS an evil. Millions of Hindus continue to suffer from it. However it is not productive to confuse it with racism because that implies we will miss racism when we really see it - blaming it on caste. Neither will we be able to address the element of religion that makes caste so difficult to eradicate. Caste - a subcategory of the wider evil of religious discrimination and inequality - and racism are similar in their impacts, but arise from different sources, and can appear in two different locations without the presence of each other.

This distinction is important because we need to correctly identify the nature of social problems before we can work to eliminate them.

P.S. You may be interested to know that Arya Samaj that did not take very kindly to Islam totally rejected caste system. They truly created a community of caste-less and amazingly progressive Hindus. They worked against all kind of social problems among Hindus - lack of education, superstitions, practice of dowry, inequality of women, internal divisions. But they exchanged one kind of man-to-man discrimination (Hindu against Hindu) with another kind (Hindu against Muslim). Inequality did not go away from their lives, it merely changed form. They offered their religious/social justifications, but those justifications don`t matter. Discrimination is discrimination - be it Hindu against Hindu, Hindu against Muslim, or Muslim against Hindu.

We can not remove all discrimination by confusing it with racism.

re: AAmir # 27

Studs, you pick out some really great articles.

re: Ahmed Madani # 25

Dear friend, we black Hindus and Muslims couldn`t care less what these white girls do. They can go and be part of any Arab`s or donkey`s harem, as far as most of us are concerned.

All right, you got me mad. But some things do get my blood up.

Can we say that the Aga Khani is no muslim?

Aga Khanism is a perfect example of irrational convictions overtaking the realities. For an outsider to visualize them, with his open mind, is not easy Whereas, those who have not sacrificed their power of reasoning, it is clear that a devout`s reliance on the Farmans of his Imam is beyond human reasoning and logic. Their reliance on Farmans has overshadowed the truth, and the basis of their reliance is emotionalism, which their sentiments and pride would not allow them to admit.

Fuzair,

DITTO! ..

wonderful post!

-YLH

12 headed retard:

If your story is true, why did Col. Shahnawaz opt for Pakistan then? Lying is a disease which transcends the communal divide in India.

More lies by 12 headed retard:

It seems that Aamir is in the mood to make up stories... first he created a falsehood about Col.Shahnawaz, a person who was involved in the Pakistan movement after INA had failed and who died as a Pakistani, and now he has come up with the bogus story of Abdul Hamid. Given that in Rann of Kutch Pakistani tanks were on an onslaught.. but the story is of a Pakistani soldier who blew up a tank in the characteristic suicide bombing... not that I want this story to be underscored because it will make us look like those uncouth suicide bombers of Hamas.

YLH wrote:

``Perhaps, it will be important to recall the Islamic identity of Sir Agha Muhammad Khan the grandfather of the current Agha Khan ... who founded the league and was a major force for the creation of Pakistan``

Founding of the league, and the splitting of India did not have to do with the Islamic Identity of those leaders. Mr. Jinnah did not even know how to pray.

These leaders were trying to serve the cause of the Britts, by splitting India up into smaller and smaller parts.

Muslim Leaders like Abul Kalam Azaad and Maududi opposed the idea of creating an ideological state.

Again A typical Indian Muslim Lie we have witnessed in the form of Shah Gul... You sir are an ignorant fool. As for Mullah Azad and Mullah Maudoodi.. do I need to say more... This goes to show that the religious conservatives hated the creation of Pakistan.

Instead of accusing everything on the British, it will do you well to read Ambedkar`s book `Pakistan or Partition of India` who says accusing British maneuvering is proposterous, and to accuse Jinnah to be a tool of the British is not possible, because no sane individual will accuse an incorruptible politician like Jinnah of being a tool of anyone.

But then again, the Majority of Indian muslims led by fools like Imam Bukhari and Rafiq Zakaria, can hardly be described as `SANE`...

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Thank you Prem, for clarifying this point.

It strengthens the Muslim belief that all religions were sent by Allah, in fact, they were all pure Islam, before people changed their form and name. Therefore, it is a sin for me to call Hindu religion bad.

Likewise, suicide bombing and terrorism were never part of Islam. They have entered recently, and defaced islam.

p.s. An uncle of mine (he is 76 now) fought in the 1965 war. When I asked him about the popular myth about Pakistani soldiers throwing themselves under tanks, he denied it catagorically.

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re: ylh

...bharatiya_musalman sends you his best wishes...he regrets his absence from chowk over the past few months (he was busy traveling on his book signing tour), but promises to return shortly...

``.....I suppose the catholicity of his beliefs makes the devotees supra-Islamic.....``

CATHOLOCITY ??????

Catholics are the most unforgiving christians as far as divorce ,abortion ,& inter religous marriage is concerned

This is not Varsey the Agha Khani speaking nor Farzana a muslim speaking but brain wash of, unadulterated pure indias Convent, blindly english WORSHIPPING ,anglican indian urbanite could be punjabi, bengali maharashtrian

re: madani sahaab

...your insights on `coal-like darkies` and `milky goras/goris` are enlightening...please also share with us your perspectives on recent phenomenon of deshis marrying african americans/brits?...

thanks

Ref ylh #: 22

[Perhaps the affidavit signed by Liaqat Ali Khan, and Fatima Jinnah, that the founder of Pakistan was a `Shia Khoja Mohammedan` will stop Pakistanis from ever declaring Ismailis to be Non Muslims.]

Yasser, dear boy, this is the best joke I have heard on Chowk. Has it prevented the Pakistanis from killing Shias? How about last week`s bombing of the Shiite mosque in which 12 women and children were killed?

Since, as you pointed out, the Gujarat riots retro-actively prove that Jinnah and the TNT were right, is it time for the Shias to demand a separate Shiastan out of Pakistan a la Bangladesh?

You are taking the side of Jinnah in the case Jinnah vs. Allah, with self-proclaimed guardians of Allah`s ideology sitting as judges on earth and you expect the long-dead Jinnah to win. That has as much chance of success as did the petition in the Pakistan Supreme Court against the Musharraf referendum. Jinnah has an affidavit but you don`t realize Allah has fatwas. Yet another resounding defeat for Jinnah the famed barrister.

By the way, Asif Naqshbandi Sahib, I discovered that Fatwa Online (www.fatwa-online.com with mirror site www.efatwa.com) has declared Barelvis to be a Deviant Sect of Muslims and lumps them in the same category as Ahmadiyyas. Pakistanis, it is time to declare Barelvis to be non-Muslims!

[As for the `islamic` identity.. I am sure it bites the Hinduvtists and the Gandhians (like you ??), the `Islamic identity` of Farzana Versey who is a secularist Indian.]

The only thing that bites me is the fact those who recommend certain a course of action for others do not want to follow it themselves.

[Perhaps, it will be important to recall the Islamic identity of Sir Agha Muhammad Khan the grandfather of the current Agha Khan ... who founded the league and was a major force for the creation of Pakistan.]

Oh, yeah? Then perhaps it is important to recall Islamic identity of the great-great-great-----grandfather who founded the sect of hashish-crazed Assassins in the land of your forefathers, Iran.

So one of the founders of Pakistan is a descendant of assassins. What about the rest of them? At least, the Aga Khan dynasty has redeemed itself through 6 generations or more of community service.

Ref Chunkey Pandey #: 21

[Talk abour ``who started the fire first``....From Harimou to Dost Mittar why do hindu always support the splinter group of Muslims ...Mukti Bahini ,Awami League ,Shia ,Aga Khani .....]

12-head, if you notice the pattern of my posts, I assault all those who mindlessly swallow the ideological crap put out by thugs and regurgitate it to justify their stupidity.

Anybody who questions established authority will have my support. I am an anarchist at heart and I am all for letting a thousand flowers bloom so long as the flowers are not nurtured on crap.

Ref Shah #: 24

[Bhangi

Gadha ,have some common sense .....if bhangis became muslims ,you would be one of them.Since i thank you, for not having enough sense to grasp & comprehend ,THANK GOD FOR YOU REMAINING BHANGI .BHANGI .What proof is there that you are not HARAMI even as your name suggest?]

Wow! Just what I expected! Not one Bhangi of India converted to Islam to escape the tyranny of the caste system. How come? Better to be slave of the Brahmin than be slave of Allah?

Ref Anika Zaidi #: 23

[Skunk

You missread your own Ramayana into unread part of your putrid upbreaking.

LORD RAMA SAYS DO NOT TRUST WOMEN

Lord Rama is in harmonious agreement with Manusmrti 7:145-153. While lecturing his brother Bharata on how to govern the kingdom, Lord Rama says women are not trustworthy creatures:

``[Rama:] `Do you keep your womenfolk pacified? Are they duly protected by you? I hope you do not repose excessive faith in them and do not confide your secrets to them.` `` -- Ramayana 2:100.]

And Allah says trust a woman only half as much as you trust a man; require two female witnesses for every Muslim male witness. And in a case of rape, double that again.

And your point is?

Fv,

You`re back to fine form. I`ve got a couple of writer questions, if you don`t mind. Let me know if your willing to entertain them.

Death Penalty Sought in Nigeria

Thu Apr 25,11:16 AM ET

MADA, Nigeria (AP) - Muslim prosecutors sought the death penalty for two men accused of converting from Islam to Christianity, a crime for which an Islamic court judge gave the accused men three days to reconvert.



Lawali Yakubu and Ali Jafaru, villagers in their 30s, were accused in the Islamic, or Shariah, court in the northern town of Mada of recently abandoning the Islamic faith and joining the Great Commission Movement, an international Evangelical church with a strong following in Nigeria.

Auwal Jabaka, the court judge, said Wednesday that although the Muslim holy book, or Quran, calls for the execution of Muslims who accept another religion, it was unclear whether the state`s two-year-old Shariah penal code also permitted such a punishment.

Jabaka adjourned the court for three days to allow the accused to ``change their minds`` and convert back to Islam.

In the meantime, he called on the Zamfara government to clarify its position on the matter.

``If the law empowers me to (execute the two for converting from Islam to Christianity), I will have no hesitation in doing that,`` the judge said.

Yakubu and Jafaru were not represented by lawyers but were instead accompanied by fellow church members.

The two argued they had never been Muslims, but were instead members of the Magazawa, a Hausa subgroup that has long practiced Christianity. The overwhelming majority of Hausas — one of Nigeria`s largest tribes — are Muslim.

The case was believed to be the first of its kind since a dozen predominantly Muslim northern states began implementing Shariah law in early 2000, despite virulent opposition from mainly Christian and animist southerners.

In the past two years, thousands of Muslims and Christians have been killed in periodic bursts of inter-religious bloodletting.

ras

``I saw two ``Half-Muslims`` sharing a beer yesterday. Makes me wonder what hamidm would

say if he encountered them?``

.....the agha khanis are perhaps the only muslim community that has stepped out of the seventh century - the rest of us are still eating dates and dating our camels .... the only other group that seems to be somewhat civilized are the ahmedis, who, as we all know, are non-muslims and wajib-ul-qatl .......i wonder how long it is going to be before suicidal shias and homicidal sunnis declare war on the agha khanis and run them out of pakistan ..... then, where will we get a decent hotel room or hospital bed ?

.... drinking beer is a very visible and powerful symbol for a muslim who has overcome his fear, superstition, and bigotary ..... somewhere along the way, islam has been reduced to four principles: prohibition, subjugation of women, interest free banking and hatred for the poor swine ........ a beer is a good first step on the road to recovery .......

P.S. ... no one is suggesting that drinking is a good thing and you should rush out to buy a six pack .... but one should stick around to give an inebriated friend a ride home ...... afterall, we do stick around for isha prayers and other godly activities ........

ylh

You are a bit to free with your insults. Do not accuse others of lying if you are not sure of your own facts. I have given below a short summary on Abdul Hamid. I first read about Abdul Hamid in class six, because there was a story in my Hindi text book called Abdul Hamid Kee Amar Kahani. BTW, THE Greandiers still have the highest number of Muslims and have served with distinction in Kargil, J&K etc. The Param Vir Chakra is India`s highest military award.

``Company Quarter Master Havildar Abdul Hamid was born on 1 July 1933, in Uttar Pradesh. He was enrolled in the 4 Grenadiers on 27 December 1954. During his Army service he earned the Sainya Seva Medal with Clasp J&K, the Samar Seva Medal and the Raksha Medal. During the 1965 Indo-Pak War, 4 Indian Division was entrusted with a two-fold responsibility - capture Pak territory east of Ichhogil Canal and contain possible enemy attack on Kasur-Khem Karan axis. The 4th Indian Division succeeded in reaching Ichhogil but the powerful Pakistani offensive forced it to fall back on Asal Uttar. The 4 Indian Division settled here to meet the enemy assault.

In the new defence plan of the Division, 4 Grenadiers occupied a vital area ahead of Chima village on the Khem Karan-Bhikhiwind road. A firm hold on this area was considered essential to sustain the divisional plan of defence. On Spetember 8th night, the enemy made repeated probing attacks on Grenadiers positions but was frustrated in all the attempts. The most serious threat, however, developed when the enemy attacked with a regiment of Patton tanks at 0800 hours on September 10th. The attack was preceded by intense artillery shelling so much so that every yard of ground occupied by the battalion was littered by a shell.

By 0900 hours, the enemy tanks had penetrated the forward company positions. At this critical juncture, Hamid was commanding a recoilless gun detachment. Seeing the gravity of the situation, he moved out to a flank with his gun mounted on a jeep. Intense enemy shelling and tank fire did not deter him. From his new position, he knocked out the leading enemy tank with accurate fire. Then he changed his position and knocked out another enemy tank. By this time the enemy who had spotted his position brought down concentrated machine gun and high explosive fire on him.

But he kept on firing. As he fired to hit yet another enemy tank, he was mortally wounded by a high explosive shell. Throughout this action, CQMH Hamid inspired his comrades to put up a gallant fight to beat off the enemy tank assault. His sustained act of bravery and disregard for personal safety, in the face of constant enemy fire, were a shining example, not only to his unit but to the whole division and were in the highest traditions of the Indian Army.

Company Quarter Master Havildar Abdul Hamid was honoured with the highest wartime gallantry medal, Param Vir Chakra, posthumously. Jai Hind!! Jai Jawan!

Aamir:

Great article man. Awesome. And Yes Shahnawaz was born an Indian, lived as an Indian and died an Indian. That is the truth, and YLH is either lying, or he does not know what he is talking about.

Pakistanis will always be indebted for 3 huge Aga Khani favors:

- Provided intellectual and political leadership to Pakistan movement in the form of Prince Aga Khan and Mohammed Ali Jinnah.

- Migrated in large numbers with their wealth and enterpreneurial skills to Pakistan.

- Gilgitis (mostly Aga Khanis) launched the freedom movement in Kashmir and were able to liberate Gilgit and Baltistan.

I don`t know or care if they are ``full`` muslims and neither should other Pakistanis, because politically they are more muslim than any other ethnic group in Pakistan. They way they slavishly follow Aga Khan`s farmans is truely disgusting, but so do the followers of the Pirs of Barri Imam, Golra Sharif, Sarwari Jamaat and thousands of other gaddi-nashins in Pakistan.

PS. NLI is not composed of Aga Khanis but mostly Balti (Baltistani) Shias. Aga Khanis serve in large numbers with Gilgit Scouts. (Major Hasan Khan who led the rebellion in 47-48 against the Maharaja was an Aga Khani I think)

Stuka..

I read a similar story about a jawan in my urdu text book...

So which one should one believe?

Farzana
Thanks for a well written and informative article. I agree with soysauce, for many of us Hinduism is like this in the matter of choice..
Absolutely no offense meant, but by your descriptions, in a positive way it seems you are half-Hindu, half-Parsi and half-Muslim, in the commonly accepted sense of these words. In other words the best of all worlds! Good for you.

`Commonly accepted sense of these words` alas sink these commonly accepted senses of these words: A family member was pointing out the other day that the UN charter of Human Rights speaks of the individual`s right to `a` religion or something. His point of view was that this is actually a Western imposition on a large part of humanity`s TRUE human rights, to restrict the right to only one religion. This, because in most of the East, people would subscribe to MORE than one religion. For example, the Japanese can be Shintoists and Christians both, or Christians and Buddhists both, (if you take a poll, say(just as example) 80% would describe themselves as Shintoists, 50% would call themselves Christians, etc). Similarly it used to be hard to tell whether some groups in India were Hindu or Muslim, or Hindu or Sikh, or a diverse tradition within Islam itself, the term Hinduism itself was hard to define etc, etc.
Revise the UN charter and banish the commonly accepted (finally bureacratic) terms Hindu, Muslim, Christian, etc!

Re: Ali1

``Gilgitis`` (assuming you mean the people who live in and around Gilgit and not all the residents of the Northern Areas) are NOT Aga Khanis but Shina speaking Sunni Muslims who, as a rule, hate and despise Ismailis (i.e, Aga Khanis). Ismailis live in (mainly) Hunza in the Northern Areas but also in districts north and west of Hunza. The NLI recruits almost evenly from Shina speaking Sunnis and Burushkashi speaking Ismailis with Balti speaking Shias from Skardu in a distinct minority. However, in any given battalion of the NLI (at last count there were

YLH:

``I read a similar story about a jawan in my urdu text book... ``

As far as Abdul Hamid is concerned, there is documented proof of his existence, and he is listed as a recipient of the Param Vir Chakra. You can easily go through the Gallantry Award citations of the Pak Army to see if there was an incident involving similar circumstances on your side. I am sure if you read about a Jawan in your text book he must have been a recipient of some sort of gallantry award, not just an anonymous soldier. If you find something, go ahead and believe both. Courage is not limited one side.

Stuka,

Honestly I personally don`t really care much for a bunch of Nazi/Axis sympathizers such as the INA. However, I know that there was atleast one so called `colonel` of this `Army` who opted for Pakistan. If it wasn`t Shahnawaz, must have been someone else. Though I was pretty sure it was him. Fuzair knows a lot about this stuff.. Maybe he will shed some light on the issue.

I have no intention of deceiving anyone.. given that I am not an Indian.

Sincerely

YLH

Yes, Col. Shahnawaz was and remained an Indian. In fact, he became a federal minister of some sort, and most definitely led an investigation into Netaji`s death. He himself died somewhere in UP. I know because my own Mausa ji (my mom`s elder sister`s husband) was an INA soldier and spoke of these leaders with reverence. As children we would sit around him and he would astonish us with stories of his life in SE Asia as a soldier. One of the most exciting rituals during these story-telling sessions was for him to start, in his booming voice, -

``Lal Quile ki hai awaz,``



And we would respond in chorus -

``sehgal dhillon shahnawaz``

Inspired, he would continue -

``Lal quile ko tod dau``

and we will complete the naara -

``sehgal dhillon ko choddh dau``

Even as kids we knew that there was something wonderful and morally uplifting about a hindu (sehgal), a sikh (dhillon), and a Muslim (shahnawaz) fighting shoulder to shoulder against the british.

You need not ask who our favorite relative to visit us was. God has been good to Mausa ji`s family. Beginning with very poor roots like ours, they have done exceedingly well. There is some justice in this world.

Prem

``You may be interested to know that Arya Samaj that did not take very kindly to Islam totally rejected caste system. They truly created a community of caste-less and amazingly progressive Hindus. They worked against all kind of social problems among Hindus - lack of education, superstitions, practice of dowry, inequality of women, internal divisions. But they exchanged one kind of man-to-man discrimination (Hindu against Hindu) with another kind (Hindu against Muslim). Inequality did not go away from their lives, it merely changed form. They offered their religious/social justifications, but those justifications don`t matter. Discrimination is discrimination - be it Hindu against Hindu, Hindu against Muslim, or Muslim against Hindu.

``

Some of us are Arya Samajis in practice :-). Caste system is an evil and it should be purged out of Hinduism. Ancient Hindu philosophy that we see in Vivekananda`s teachings, Upanishadas, Geeta, Ramayana and Shankara`s Advaitism should form the basis of neo_Hinduism. We need social reform movements once again to weaken the institutions of caste and provide a social system free of caste system.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

I too remember reading a story by the name of ``Veer(Brave) Abdul Hameed`` in my high school Hindi textbook. Let me recall from my memory. As far as I remember, he was a valiant warrior known for taking the air out of Paki`s ``famed`` Patton tanks (American donated ones). He single handedly destroyed 3 Pattons and damaged a fourth one using just artillery fire. He is known for restoring the morale of his batallion in the battle which finally turned out to be the ``graveyard of the Pattons``. He was awarded ``Param Veer Chakra``, the highest Indian military award.

Yasser

Dont mess with our heroes. Abdul Hameed and Shahnawaz were great patriots and will remain our heroes till eternity.

Betrayal again by Fernandez to glorify Modi & include him into peace maech at the last moment upsetting to Gujrati Muslims .....too recently hurt to forgive at least for NOW.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/front_pa.htm

MARCH IN SHADOW OF MODI ROSHNI

FROM BASANT RAWAT Ahmedabad, April 28: Carrying Atal Bihari Vajpayee?s secular beacon in his person, George Fernandes placed chief minister Narendra Modi ? hero to some, killer to others ? in new light. ?Roshni? (ray of light) was how the defence minister described Modi, recalling Jai Prakash Narayan?s fascination for the chief minister who was then a youthful leader.

?He (JP) looked to him as roshni. He used to mention 10 times a day how impressed he was by this youthful leader,? Fernandes told a peace rally today.

When members of the minority community, some of whom lost their relatives, friends and homes in the fire that has been burning in Gujarat for two months, saw this roshni flickering at the head of the peace march, most decided to stay away.

?I won?t join hands with these people,? said S.B. Syed. ?They have no place in a peace rally,? he said of Modi and members of his government.

With their followers, Syed, a member of the Gujarat Chamber of Commerce and Industry, the rally?s organiser, and the Samajwadi Party state secretary, Khurshid Syed, had come to join the peace march, but changed their minds when they found Modi, home minister Godhan Zadhaphia and revenue minister Haren Pandya there.

?We came because we were told the chief minister will not come. It is a betrayal. We are boycotting the peace march because killers and mass murderers are pretending to be peacemakers,? they said.

The march drew about 1,000 people, way below expectations of a turnout of tens of thousands, despite the presence of several Central ministers ? Arun Jaitley, Harin Pathak and Digvijay Singh ? and some local Congress leaders, who gave the exercise the respectability of not being an entirely government-sponsored event.

Minority community members, standing in large numbers on both sides of the road, held placards that said: ?Modi law of peace, kill Muslims to win election?; ?Modi law of peace, break down Muslims financially?; and ?Modi law of peace, a Muslim life costs nothing, rape them, kill them, police with you?.

Some might have joined ? but most just watched ? the 3.5-km march that began from Manilal Mansion near Kalupur railway station in the minority-dominated area of Lal Darwaja, passing through riot-hit localities that remain stripped of signs of day-to-day life despite relaxation of curfew.

Gun-toting police and Central force personnel stood guard at strategic positions and on rooftops as the marchers walked, carrying banners demanding an immediate end to ?insane communal rage?, to patriotic songs sung by NCC cadets.

Hours before the march, four persons were killed and 18 injured in police firing in the Millat Nagar area at Maninagar on the outskirts of the city.

Hours later, one person was stabbed to death.

Addressing a meeting at the end of the march, an emotionally-charged Modi said: ?Everyone has lost something. What Gujarat now requires is trust between people.?

?It is time to forget the past and to isolate those who are indulging in violence?. No one will be able to disrupt peace and communal harmony if miscreants are identified and isolated.?

Trust is something the chief minister will have to work harder on. Sheikh Memon, a protester holding a placard, said: ?Had we known Modi would join the peace march, we would have imposed janata curfew. You would have not seen so many Muslims today.?

Scores of them looked on from inside their barricaded colonies as the marchers went by. Holding a small baby in her arms, Zareena Biwi peeped through the iron gates.

?Peace is when I can come out and join you in the streets,? she said.

Farzana

You write very well, especially when you are not emotional. This was an informative piece. At least I came to know certain new things after reading this article :-)

YLH wrote:

``Again A typical Indian Muslim Lie we have witnessed in the form of Shah Gul... You sir are an ignorant fool. As for Mullah Azad and Mullah Maudoodi.. do I need to say more... This goes to show that the religious conservatives hated the creation of Pakistan.

``

Thank you Sir/Madam, for changing my gender and nationality.:)

RE Stuka # 53

Dear delusional HIndian friend face it - Abdul Hamid is just a figment of your imagination. Forget about the roads named after him in various Army Cantts around India (I can remember the one in Delhi & another in Kirkee/Khadki) cos they were probably typos - must definately have been Amit Hari but our delusional minds were unable to read them correctly. Anyway what does it matter, the rest of our country hardly remembers its martyrs so how can we blame the ignorance of outsiders.

And what about General Shahnawaz Khan, Subhas Bose`s associate and confidant. He did serve as a Railway Minister in the Union Government and in 1956 was commissioned by the Government of India to probe into the disappearance of his chief whom he had loyally served. I guess he probably migrated to Pakistan soon after that, funny how the rest of us never knew that.

-Subroto

Akash,

Please shut up.

Thankyou

-YLH

Re: 12-head

``CATHOLOCITY ??????

Catholics are the most unforgiving christians as far as divorce ,abortion ,& inter religous marriage is concerned

This is not Varsey the Agha Khani speaking nor Farzana a muslim speaking but brain wash of, unadulterated pure indias Convent, blindly english WORSHIPPING ,anglican indian urbanite could be punjabi, bengali maharashtrian``

## Abey gadhe ke aulaad.... kayko apna gadhagiri dikhaata hai? Here`s the dictionary meaning of catholicity from Merriam Webster:

catholicity

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural -ties

Date: 1704

1 capitalized : the character of being in conformity with a Catholic church

2 a : liberality of sentiments or views (catholicity of viewpoint -- W. V. O`Connor) UNIVERSALITY c : comprehensive range (catholicity of topics)

I assume FV meant meaning #2. And while I`m at it, us Angrez-worshipping urbanites are anyday better than your skyscraper-hating camelhumpers and our very own trishul-wielding bloodsuckers. Long live our tribe. Death to the glenmongers!

Farzana,

An instructive and well-written piece on a very important and progressive community.

Farzana, there is an idea I would like to bounce off you - an idea I know merely at a theoretical level, and that too in an entirely different context. I would be interested in knowing whether you think the idea has any relevance w.r.t. your community. To the best of my knowledge the idea has not been used before to study the nature of communal evolution over time. So, it is a blind shot.

The idea has to do with the difficulty of staying in the middle. In general, it has been seen that those occupying the middle ground tend to get sucked into the extremes over time. Very many reasons have been advanced to explain this phenomenon. In general, only those groups/individuals survive in the middle that actually have some unique stake in/commitments to the middle, that is groups that do not see themselves merely in terms of the extremes.

Extending the idea to Agha Khanis (without knowing much about them, and relying only on what I have read here), those set of arguments would posit that over time, Agha Khanis will find it very difficult to resist internal and external pressures to move toward some form of ``pure`` Islam (or pure Hinduism, had they seen themselves as Adha Hindus, which they don`t), UNLESS newer generations see something uniquely valuable (intellectually, philosophically, morally) about themselves, uniquely valuable distinguishing them from ``pure`` Muslims.

I am not sure I have captured the idea fully in that one, long, terribly constructed sentence! If you can make sense out of it, let me know what you feel.

re: Hobbyty # 32

Sometimes it is hard to believe that you actually think. Which religious tradition does not have ``irrational conviction`` at its core? Which does not feed on emotionalism, sentiment, and pride to varying extents? Now, I don`t know if all Agha Khanis are bonded slaves of Agha Khan breathing and staying alive only as per his firmans. So long as that is not the case, and Agha Khan serves as some distant symbol of one`s identity, I don`t see any greater irrationality and emotionalism in what Agha Khanis do than in any other tradition.

Akash

Hey, good to meet an Arya Samaji. Did I paint a true picture of your community? No one in my family is an Arya Samaji, and among friends, one never cared to ask. So what do you think, Akash?

Shahnawaz Khan was an Indian. He could not stand that greatest fraud ever born among Indian Muslims-lying, deceiving, manipulating fop known as Jinnah. Shahnawaz Khan was fighting the British. That lying, deceiving, manipulating fop Jinnah was fighting Indians. How could they get along?

Farzana, meri pyari behen, kabhi kisi non-controversial topic pay bhi likh liya karo. What ever happened to the ``How I spent my summer vacation`` essays? or ``meri paaltoo billi`` ;) Boy, how soon we forget the 4th grade, tsk tsk. Just felt like picking on you :D

This was an informative essay. You highlighted the history of a community, whose history is rarely spoken of, and is mentioned only in reference to their conspicuous religious practices. This was enlightening.

Having said that, I think your last line:

``wanted an Allah. Dead or alive.`` is completely uncalled for, I can see the sentiment that gave birth to it, but I`m certain,in your writing repertoire something better does exist. This is not in good taste.

Regards

Kiran

Farzana, meri pyari behen, kabhi kisi non-controversial topic pay bhi likh liya karo. What ever happened to the ``How I spent my summer vacation`` essays? or ``meri paaltoo billi`` ;) Boy, how soon we forget the 4th grade, tsk tsk. Just felt like picking on you :D

This was an informative essay. You highlighted the history of a community, whose history is rarely spoken of, and is mentioned only in reference to their conspicuous religious practices. This was enlightening.

Having said that, I think your last line:

``wanted an Allah. Dead or alive.`` is completely uncalled for, I can see the sentiment that gave birth to it, but I`m certain,in your writing repertoire something better does exist. This is not in good taste.

Regards

Kiran

YLH:

Although from Jhelum, I believe, Shahnawaz decided to stay on in India after Partition. Despite all the Indian Nationalist propaganda about Netaji Bose, the INA (more accurately Indian Traitor Army or Japanese Indian Forces) was completely irrelevant to the freedom struggle and certainly was not instrumental in the British decision to leave India. The Japanese took about 60,000 Indian POWs, of whom about 20,000 joined the INA and 40,000 refused to betray their salt, their regiment or the King-Emperor. Of that 40,000, about half died in the forced labour camps, quite a few of them at the hands of die-hard Indian nationalists and INA traitors.

Of the 20,000 Indian POWs who joined the INA, most deserted back to the British the first chance they got. The British realized that the conditions in the camps were so awful, and the punishment for not joining the INA so severe, that most joined simply out of a sense of self-preservation. That is why most INA men were either allowed to rejoin the Indian Army or discharged from military service w/out punishment.

What the British handled extremely badly was who was to be punished for joining the INA. They chose a Sikh, a Hindu and a Muslim (the traitor Shahnawaz) to try in Delhi. While these were all KCOs and so deserved the death penalty for treason, none of them had actually killed any Indian POWs or personally carried out any atrocities. Nothing worse could have been chosen since it catalyzed everybody--led by the self-serving Indian Nationalists--to defend them. Much to my disappointment, Jinnah also, belatedly fortunately, offered to defend the INA accused.

Actually, the first trial was supposed to be of a Captain Burhanuddin who used to personally torture Indian POWs to death if they refused to join the INA and worship the great Netaji. However an administrative foulup, I believe, led his trial to be delayed. So the ones who actually went on trial were much sympathetic figures for the Indian masses.

Incidentally, when Nehru tried to insist that the INA traitors should be reinstated in the Indian Army, the Indian officers told Nehru that they would under no circumstances serve with traitors. I believe he was informed that there would be mass resignations of virtually the entire Indian senior officer corp.

Romair is quite right. IF the Raj had decided to stay, the Army would have been loyal since the Punjab would have been loyal (it was Unionist, remember?) and between the Punjabis (Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims), the Gurkhas, and the Rajputs, there would have been more than enough soldiers to hold India for the King-Emperor. I asked some of my relatives who were commissioned in WWII and friend`s fathers/grandfathers who they would have sided with if the Army had to be used against ``nationalists`` and, to a man, the answer was ``the British.`` BTW, they also thought that the INA men should have been hung for treason.

Regards.

Miss Farzana Versey,

I certainly hope writing is a hobby of yours. I would be worried if you have to earn a living this way. As for you being called a ``hindu basher`` guised as a liberal muslim, I simply called a spade a spade. Frankly, I saw your last few articles a tad (I am trying to be polite) biased.

In this article, there was a little less venom but as usual was devoid of any ``substance`` and was anfractuously boring.

So long.

NotAMullah

Alpha Hussain,

I came across two quotes today:

`The greatest quality of Jinnah that was deeply and unfailingly remembered was his honesty. Many of his contemporaries were genuinely fond of him. They would vouch for him that he was a man without malice and had a stern sense of justice. Many believed that his rudeness was linked with his deep honesty. M A Jinnah`s integrity was considered beyond blemish`

(Prakash Almaeda page 30 Jinnah the Man of Destiny.Kalpaz Publications dehli 2001)

They began calling him.. the honest Mr.Jinnah...There was one thing certain about Mohammed Ali Jinnah... He was always honest and he was never insincere... Jinnah had no vices.

(Leonard Mosley page 69 The Last days of the British Raj)

Also Dr Ambedkar, the architect of your constitution, considered Jinnah the most incorruptible politician in the entire South Asia...

So you little punk, instead of making outrageously stupid statements like the one you did ... why don`t you back up your nonsensical and bigoted nonsense with some facts and sources... Ofcourse, your kind never knew how to fair. As for Col.Shahnawaz, I seriously have little time for a Nazi Sympathizer, like I have said before.

-YLH

Gujaratis mourn across the border

By Bharat Bhushan

Karachi, April 26: Right opposite the Karachi Municipal Corporation building is an archway that leads to the local Swami Narayan temple in the centre of the city’s Gujaratipara. There are about 300-odd Hindus who live in Gujaratipara. They speak Gujarati and teach their children to read and write Gujarati as the local schools have stopped teaching the language.

The gateway to the cluster of Gujarati Hindu households is guarded by a single plainclothes policeman during the day. At night, the residents say, there are two policemen on duty. The population of Gujaratipara is aware of the communal rioting in Gujarat and is, understandably, opposed to it.

The priest of the Swami Narayan temple, Bhauji Maharaj, says: “Whatever is happening in Gujarat is not right. But what can we do from here? I can only say to the people of Gujarat that they should put a stop to the killings. What they are doing is not sanctioned by any religion.”

Harish Kumar, the supervisor of the Hindu Dharamshala next to the temple, says that he no longer calls himself a Gujarati: “We used to declare with pride that we are Gujaratis. But how can we say that now? We feel ashamed of what is happening in Gujarat. This is not insaaniyat.”

Sunil Kashiram, the manager of the Dharamshala, is also upset. He says of his co-religionists in Gujarat: “They are taking religion in the wrong direction. There are some people who want to make political capital out of it. If the violence in Gujarat increases, it will also affect us here. Our government supports us at present. We have a huge temple here. Hindus come here from all over Pakistan. Thankfully, there is nothing to fear as of now. But if the government decides not to protect us by posting policemen here day and night, things can definitely go wrong.”

The total number of Gujarati-speaking Hindus in Karachi, its surrounding suburban villages extending up to Hyderabad in Sindh, is estimated to be anywhere from 20,000 to 60,000. However, no exact figures are available.

There are 11 communities of Gujaratis living in Pakistan. Not all of them are Hindu. They also include Parsis, Memons, Ismailies, Bohras and Ganchis (from Godhra). There are people from Kutch, Bhuj and Marwar.

They used to run more than a hundred Gujarati-medium schools in Karachi. However, in 1971, after the bloody formation of Bangladesh based on a separate linguistic and cultural identity, the Pakistan government asked the Gujarati schools to adopt either Urdu or English as the medium of education. Now Gujarati is taught to children only at home.

However, even today, there are half-a-dozen Gujarati newspapers in Karachi — Millat, Watan, Daily Gujarati, Memon Bulletin, Memon Samachar and Al Zulfikar. The Gujaratis here still lament the closing down of Dawn Gujarati and Pak Samachar.

Farooq Memon, who was born in Pakistan but calls himself a Gujarati because his family came from the Kathiawar region, says: “A murderer is a murderer. He neither belongs to Ram nor to Rahim. It does not matter whether you are a Hindu Gujarati or a Muslim Gujarati. Today all of us feel ashamed of the events in Gujarat. Only one word used to unite us — ‘Gujarati’. But today, I cannot understand what is going on in Gujarat. Even the partition riots did not last this long.”

There was a time, Memon recalls, “when we went to Ahmedabad and the train crossed the Sabarmati, we knew that we were among our people. I don’t know whether I would feel the same if I went now. I have fond memories of offering namaaz twice at the Ameena Masjid in Ahmedabad. But now, I have written to my relatives to somehow come here. We Gujaratis are shopkeepers and businessmen. A shopkeeper can open a shop anywhere. But if his wife and children are killed, how can he get them back?”

Memon, a secretary in a newspaper office and very active in the Gujarati community here, says India should realise that the Gujarati Muslims have made a definite choice — to be Indians. “It has been 52-years since the partition. If the Gujarati Muslims did not see themselves as Indians, they would have come to Pakistan by now. Why have they stayed on? Because they are Indians, just as the Gujarati Hindus you meet here are Pakistanis.”

Sonbai, who lives in the Gujaratipara and has been listening to us discussing Gujarat says: “Baba, galat hua hai (Whatever has happened is not right). We have a song — Bhagwan, mein tujhe khat likhta hoon par tera pataa nahin maloom (God, I want to write to you but I don’t know your address). To my Gujarati brothers in India, I say, I know the address of God. He lives within you. He cannot sanction the killing of another human being.”

Fuzair,

Thankyou for reply...

``Much to my disappointment, Jinnah also, belatedly fortunately, offered to defend the INA accused.``

Ofcourse this `fact` will never be mentioned by the indians... for my part I am glad Jinnah, the

Anti-fascist triumphed over Jinnah the Indian Nationalist... since The INA was a fascist

organization modelled after the Nazis...I am just glad we created our own country and were free of the Nazi sympathizers.. What to say of a country like India which celebrates Nazis as its national heroes... tsk tsk becharay indians!

We the Pakistanis should be thankful and should recognize our role in the civilized world`s victories over Nazism, then communism and now terrorism. A book by Wali Khan called facts are facts `reveals` the `Islamic crescent theory` (Turkey Iran Pakistan) to contain USSR as the basis for Pakistan.. If indeed that was the reason for the creation of Pakistan I have become even more proud of my country. Wali Khan`s attempt was to play on anti-west `anti-imperalist` sentiment .. but ofcourse in the grand view of things, such a situation only helped the world. What a raison de etre, to aid the west in its monumental struggle against communist evil empire.

-YLH

``(American donated ones).``

This shows the stupid superiority complex Indians have it.. American didn`t Donate those `Tanks` .. Pakistan bought them you idiot!

-YLH

The need to share my thoughts about the Aga Khan and my being a part of the Ismaili community has been germinating for a while. Especially when, as I wrote, the criticism from both sides was at its peak. I was certainly concerned about the Muslim voice and its accusation not only of my weak links with Islam but aspects of my being ‘Hinduised’. Why and how does this happen? I would like to make a few further points.

1. Over a period of time, I have become more Muslim than many in cultural terms, and politically. It is wrong to say that the Aga Khani is sucking up to Hindus. No way. They stand on their own. My grouse against many of them is their distancing themselves even when there is cause for concern.

2. What I wrote about is specific to India, in terms of customs. The Ismailis in other countries are like the inhabitants of that particular country.

3. The Aga Khan is not a cult leader; it is a sect and an offshoot of Islam, and its practitioners do say the ‘kalma’ and believe in ‘jannat naseeb’.

4. The leader is not a middle-man between god and humans, and his firmans don’t seem particularly outlandish. They are good firmans, and it bothers me that the devotees will not follow those. Besides, other sects too have their saints, and I am not talking about Sufis alone.

5. There is no concept of triple talaq (though I do believe that it is highly misunderstood even in Islam proper); there are private courts where the matter is settled after hearings.

6. The “unspeakable things” do NOT happen. If men and women pray in the same hall (only on days when it is not too crowded) it is only proof that there is no segregation. The light handshake is between people of the same gender, though socially you may shake hands with man, woman, eunuch.

7. Was the formation of the sect evidence of opportunism? I do not know. But there are people in many countries who have benefited. A religion, or any movement, should be in a position to offer you something concrete, not just hollow ideals.

8. More than being a prosperous community, it tends to emphasise on general education.

9. About being a “weird group of Muslims”, they are not. They are about as weird as the Wahabis and Barelvis. It must also be noted that in India Islam has definite regional overtones. And the Kashmiris can hardly be called conventional Muslims.

Ras (#1):

The ‘half-Muslims’ only shared a beer?? I thought their poison would be more potent :) But are you trying to say that full Muslims do not drink? They do, they do.

Yasser (#7):

Even had you converted to the Ismaili sect, you would still be practising what you always did. Pardon my saying so, but I do not think your country would be willing to adopt this “modern progressive Islam which the founders of Pakistan had in mind” due to political considerations.

Now will you please answer one question: I have often seen you write critically about Indian Muslims. I am seriously interested in this. I had asked this once earlier too. And I want an answer only from you and would appreciate if this dialogue is restricted to us. I normally do not demand replies (no one is bound by these strictures here) but there is genuine curiosity. I hope you will help me understand this.

Dear dost-mittarji (#17…and scout #11):

[In a way I am surprised by your identifying yourself as an Ismaili and in another way, I am not. Your irreligiousity and catholicism is quite typical of the Ismailis I know but your strong Islamic (Muslim) identity is not.]

I think there is a mistaken notion that Aga Khanis do not feel Muslim. Could we not just see it as a process of osmosis? As for my personal position, I never really identified myself as an Ismaili – I always poked fun at the community until recently. Part of the reason could be the different flavours of Islam that were merged in the family and the options each one exercised. For example, my cousins had a maulvi/muliyani to teach them the Qu’ran; I chose not to, though I can say with some authority that I am perhaps a better example of a Muslim than many of them; they know the verses, I know their meanings :)

Also, events have made me look for a larger canvas to identity with. I do believe the Ismaili must stand up and be counted. Or at least I must. In general terms, if some of the others too feel this need, and it does not arise out of political anger, then I suppose it has to do with being considered non-Muslim. I am surprised that this is how we are looked upon even in India.

The Aga Khan is the centre of the being of some devotees because he is the face of a kinder, gentler Islam. And this is the view from all parts of the world, even where there is not the extent of multi-culturalism there is in India.

Urstruly (#20):

[…where leadership guarantees that it will stand up for you on the day of judgment…]

Says who? I would like to be on my own on that day for I would hate a public display of my sins…

[I would rather have schools of thought than cults. Its like being a student of science where you have to and you get the chance to read math, physics, chemistry, biology etc. even though your interst is in biology or math only.]

I have already stated that this is not a cult, as is commonly understood. But any group joined together with a purpose is also a school of thought; it is this that binds it together. And taking your analogy, yes, you must learn biology, but if you know physics and chemistry you would learn about the gravitational pull and chemical reactions of biological phenomena too.

hobbyty (#32):

[Aga Khanism is a perfect example of irrational convictions overtaking the realities. For an outsider to visualize them, with his open mind, is not easy Whereas, those who have not sacrificed their power of reaso