Another One Bites The Dust

``What are they doing to my country!``

`In particular, he also saw one man in a light blue shirt and grey trousers, splattered with blood stains, who was barking orders to the gathering law enforcement personnel, asking for the area to be cleared to make way for the ambulances. This man had already pulled five severely wounded survivors from the bus, probably saving their lives.

The journalist initially thought the Pakistani-origin man was from a civil defence agency. But it soon became clear that he was merely a guest at one of the five-star hotels who had rushed out to help as soon as he heard the blast. When the journalist went up to talk to this man, who gave a graphic description of the carnage he witnessed inside the bus, it also became extremely obvious that the man was completely inebriated. In his traumatized and drunken state, he kept cursing the terrorists as well as the law enforcement personnel for not doing enough to prevent what had happened. ``What are they doing to my country!`` he kept shouting. Here was an unlikely hero, but a hero nonetheless.`

What a great man! This is Patriotism, this is the love for Pakistan... this is what melts my heart..

Please Allah give this man a very long life. Amin!

ylh # 475

``When I was growing up (Let us not Forget in Zia`s time) we were taught Khathak in my school. So I know it for a fact that she is lying.``

Yasser! I have a question for you.Were you taught

KHATAK the folk dance of our Pashtun Tribes in the

school or was it KATHAK.I am certain it could not be KATHAK because it is a North Indian Classical

Dance form which has been mastered by Naheed Siddiqui and Sheema Kirmani.I remember reading about Naheed going to Lucknow to learn this artform from the greatest living exponant of Kathak Briju Maharaj.I do not know if Sheema has been his student,but I have seen her perform and she is pretty good.

I donot think (I may be wrong)that there is any law which bans live dancing in Pakistan including in the Heera Mandi.But that doesn`t stop

the area SHO to stop such practice as and when he likes,inspite of the monthly `Bhatta`. You must have heard about the treatment of the AJOKA group of artistes in general and the female dancers in particular in Lahore recently,where the Punjab Police did its routine stuff and stopped the performance of a live stage show calling it ``fuhash``.

She is probably telling the truth and you should

accept it as such, unless you have proof to the contrary.

Regards.

Reply #: 452

hamidm

why abdul hates america ..

Well done. As Jung said, ``Neurosis is self-division``. He also said, ``You always become the thing you fight most.``

I have no problem with `unflattering` portrayals of Pakistan.. the following article about Pakistan is much more so unflattering than anything Sheema said... but the difference is that the following is ALL TRUE.

I can`t stand lies!

Homegrown terrorism - 2

By Ardeshir Cowasjee

First and foremost, our sympathy must now be with the bereaved families of the Frenchmen and our own Pakistani citizens who were blown up last Wednesday by this novel form of terrorism which has now arrived amidst us - the unstoppable suicide bomber.

The original Thunderer, The Times of London, in an editorial on May 9 has correctly opined that governments that care little about losing their own citizens are forced to crack down more heavily if foreigners are murdered.

When foreigners are specifically targeted it provokes confrontation between embarrassed governments and foreign capitals. As for President General Pervez Musharraf, he ``must hold his nerve, while foreigners hold their breath. There may be more to come.``

Our own thunderer, Dawn in its editorial of May 11 has it that ``Pakistan`s enemies are both international terrorists and those operating at local levels to settle sectarian and factional scores.``

Shortly after Musharraf took over, he tried to lessen the scope of mischief caused by our local level operators by making an administrative amendment in the prevailing blasphemy laws which have evoked much international and national disgust and criticism. But, he was prevailed upon by his so-called advisers not to rock the boat, so he backed down. Now that he is more secure, ostensibly, with a firmer hand at the controls, having been recruited by the powers of the world to join them in their battle against international terrorism, surely he is better equipped to tackle terrorism at home.

As one step towards doing so, he should revert and make an administrative amendment in the blasphemy laws as previously suggested. Before an FIR can be filed against anyone under these dreadful laws and all other laws that lead to religious persecution, the police must have the prior written sanction of the advocate-general of the province.

Dr Younus Sheikh, now in the death cell, Circle 3, Central Jail, Rawalpindi, where he has been since he was sentenced to death in August 2001 having been charged under the iniquitous section 295-C of our blasphemy laws, has again written to me: ``I draw your attention to religious terrorism, violations of basic human rights [and] transparent injustice being perpetrated under the notorious lynch law, the Blasphemy Law 295-C PPC, in our beloved Pakistan.

As you are well aware, religious fundamentalism, fanaticism and Taliban-style Nazi organizations exist in Pakistan, and these evil organisations are led by the fanatic and extremist mullahs who have abused this law to the extent and in a style that it may be called `religious terrorism through the abuse of the blasphemy laws.`

``Like the infamous Indian law, Poto, our Pakistani law, 295-C PPC, is wide open to abuse through and by the miscreant mullahs for political, religious, sectarian, repressive and vindictive purposes on the pretext of undefined wording of this law.

``Its abuse is indeed a sign of the creeping onslaught of malevolent and fascistic mullahism and religious fanaticism at social, political and cultural levels, a rising wave of aggressive ignorance, incivility and intolerance as well as the abysmal mediaeval theocratic darkness.``

Dr Sheikh`s trial was held in camera inside the Rawalpindi Central Jail after the mullahs of the Aalimi Majlis Tahafuz Khatam-i-Nabuwat Pakistan had issued their usual threats. The petrified judge, in order to preserve his life, pronounced the death sentence, as writes Dr Sheikh ``without good evidence. The facts of the case being that there was no tangible proof against me and all the oral or documentary evidence on court record pointed to my innocence.``

An appeal has been lodged, which has resulted in a fatwa of apostasy being issued against Dr Sheikh and threats being issued against the lives of his lawyers and their families.

Dr Sheikh quotes one definition of `terrorism` from an official US document: ``the calculated use of violence or threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious or ideological in nature carried out through intimidation, coercion or instilling fear.``

Perhaps the community most prone to the religious persecution form of terrorism is that of the Ahmadis, as can be seen from a summary of cases registered against members of that community from April 1984 to April 1999: 189 for blasphemy, punishment mandatory death sentence plus fine ; 10 for allegedly burning copies of the Quran, punishment life imprisonment; 378 for posing as a Muslim, 93 for praying, 27 for celebrating the Ahmadiya Centenary, 50 for celebrating the Centenary of the Eclipses of the Sun and Moon, 748 for displaying the Kalima, all crimes punishable with three years imprisonment plus fine. Seventeen cases have been registered against the Khalifa-tul-Masih charging him in absentia with blasphemy, punishment mandatory death sentence plus fine.

As many as 1,296 members of the community have been charged with various other crimes.

On December 15 1989 the entire population of Rabwah (some 35,000 persons) was charged under Section 298-C of the Pakistan Penal Code, which reads: ``Person of Qadiani group, etc, calling himself a Muslim or preaching or propagating his faith : Any person of the Qadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves Ahmadis or by any other names), who, directly or indirectly poses himself as a Muslim, or calls, or refers to his faith as Islam, or preaches or propagates his faith, or invites others to accept his faith, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations, or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine.`` This section was inserted in the PPC `by the Anti-Islamic Activities of Qadian Group, Lahori Group and Ahmadis (Prohibition and Punishment) Ordinance XX of 1984.`

The FIR was prepared, lodged and filed by Mohammad Ashiq Marath, Station House Officer, Rabwah.

The 35,000-plus were collectively charged with the crime of having inscribed the Kalima Tayyaba and other Quranic verses on their graves, buildings, offices of the community, places of worship and business centres. They were also charged with having said Assalamo Alaikum to Muslims, for having recited the Kalima Tayyaba, and for having repeatedly indulged in similar Islamic activities.

Persecution under these laws is widespread. In Sindh, three years ago, Ayub Khoso, a young poet, writer and teacher at a school in Jhudo, near Mirpurkhas, was sentenced by the Mirpurkhas Anti-Terrorist Court to serve seventeen years in jail for allegedly having written a blasphemous column in the Sindhi newspaper Alakh (now closed down).

He has no means left to him to engage a lawyer to file an appeal. He needs help.

Most amazing of all these cases is perhaps that of another young man of Sindh, 17-year old Nazir Ahmad Khoso, an Ahmadi, charged with injuring the religious feelings of Muslims, and a series of other related charges.

On December 14, 2001 the Anti-Terrorist Court in Hyderbad sentenced him to a total term of 118 years imprisonment sentences to run consecutively.

The matter was referred to the High Court, which remanded the case back to the AT court, and this court very considerately amended its judgment and reduced the sentence to 60 years imprisonment. He is now in Hyderabad jail and his appeal is pending.

Whereas the thunderers thunder and groan, our other newspaper, `The Nation` of Lahore printed a highly apt quote from Iqbal`s `Baal-i-Jibreel`, on its back page on May 8, the day of the Karachi suicide bombing: ``I happened to be there - I could not control myself.

When Providence ordered Mullah a place in Paradise. `Excuse me for being impertinent,` I interrupted the Lord Divine, `This person is not compatible with Houries, [gardens] and wine. Paradise is not the right place for a quibbler of precepts.

``This man of Allah argued and discussed, did nothing except preach malice to nations and sects - If you ask - In Heaven there is neither Temple, [nor] Church, nor Mosque`.``

Rsax,

I don`t know why I bother....probably because I`ve been trying to ignore stupid arguments for the last 6 months which is impossible when you`ve got SOME people who can`t look past their own feet to see other perspectives on being Pakistani....I`m sure they`ll have us defined as ``Central Asian`` if they were given half a chance....wait till they find out that ``tharboos`` also means watermelon in Uzbeki...unless you Indians use it as well, but then you got it from us and we are really Central Asian, but not the Buddhist part, the Muslim part...the Muslim Pakistani part that has always been so since time immemorial...

Ylh,

Of course you are barely 22, because your posts illustrate a immaturity barely covered with some intelligence. I have read countless posts from you exhuming every Gandhi-Jinnah cliche and debate possible from the subcontinent, I have resisted your ceaseless name calling and baiting any Pakistani who didn`t agree with your dysfunctional sense of nationalism. Now you, barely 22, and just graduated from Rutgers are going to tell Pakistani women who they may accept as feminist leaders, what they choose to think, what agendas they choose to support, and what they choose to say?

You are going to tell a well respected female artist and activist what her experiences and lack of economic avenues of dance performance are? And if her opinions differ from yours, she is a female dog, because her experience and opinion differs from yours, she is a ``liar``?

Even more galling, you have the nerve to speak for Hina Jilani and other Pakistani activists and claim what they think?

Listen little boy, the feminist movement is huge and has many levels and subcultures. What artists do are completely different dialectics than what lawyers, union organizers, intellectuals, nurses, and homemakers do. Again, I`m am baffled at your place in any of this.

If WAF has anything to say about Kermani`s comments, will a female interactor let me know?

And ylh. Know when to quit, apologise and shut up. You`ve behaved very badly in all of this. If you don`t change that attitude, you just as bad for Pakistan as any other so called evil.

ps- DO the research on South Asianism or shut up as well. I don`t have time to baby you.

ylh, hari inder

One can make a few broad statements about the relative preparedness of Indian and Pakistani militaries even without possessing any direct interest in military operations.

Pakistani military, IMO, is and will be for sometime, BETTER trained and better equipped than the Indian military. The reason for that is simple: Indian military affairs, including purchase of miltary hardware, are directly under the thumb of civilians, many of them absolutely and thoroughly corrupt. These dhoti-wearing babus are often more interested in the health and safety of their ugly bank accounts than in the health and safety of military people.

Pakistani military, on the other hand, purchases its hardware, and makes decisions about its human resources largely on its own. Given that it has the first and unaccounted-for claim on national resources it is unlikely to settle for the second best. Military people can be totally corrupt as well (as the number of billionaire generals and sons and daughters-of-generals in Pakistan will testify), but in Pakistan there is one less layer of corruption. Also, since the military has the first and unchecked claim on national resources, Pakistani generals can both make their money AND train their people.

So, in matters of military hardware and training Pakistani military has a structural advantage.

However, that advantage is illusory. It rests on certain assumptions that are unlikely to hold for long.

First, it assumes that the national resources of the two countries are roughly equivalent. Suppose, it could be argued that Pakistani military`s first claim on and unchecked access to Pakistani national resources stifles the growth of Pakistan`s OVERALL national economy. If that were the case, then Pakistani military`s structural advantage will become less and less meaningful over time - an overwhelmingly large share of a shrinking pie can not match a small share of a growing one.

Secondly, ofcourse, preparedness is not merely a matter of military training and hardware. It is also a matter of focus. Any instition that seeks to guarantee its first and unchecked claim on the nation`s economic resources, MUST maintain its consistent ideological hold over other citizens, and when that hold is threatened, directly and repeatedly intervene in the form of brute force.

This is removes the military focus.

If the two conditions I have described above are obtained, then Pakistani military`s long-term advantage over Indian military may be threatened.

Ofcourse then there are racist theories galore of of ``martial races,`` of Hindu-Muslim, of tall-and-short, black-and-white, and fat-and-slim :)

Samina Shah,

Knowing ylh very well, I know that he hardly has any male-female hang-ups, so why do you always have to go into an insecure female mode when confronting his very valid points. Just so that you know, I was the one who brought the New York Times article to ylh`s attention. If you think what ylh is saying is bad, you should have read the email i wrote. What Sheema Kirmani did had nothing to do with liberalism or the women`s movement. It was merely self aggrandizement. Afterall Bhartayanatram is only as Pakistani as Belle, both should be taught to those who are willing, but they are hardly major feminist issues. I think you need to resolve your inferiority complex. Women are not inferior to men. Women are the equals of men.

Peace

Aisha Fayyazi Sarwari

PS Why must each debate somehow come down to `I am a woman and you are a man`... f these are the times of Male-female equality, shouldn`t you be ready for anything?

FOr the record, I don`t distinguish between a male or a female interactor. So it would be better if Samina Shah stopped making everything into some sort of a female vs male drivel.

Listen Samina Shah,

You really don`t know me or what I stand for... just because my blood is not white enough to let a white lie like `Dancing is banned by Law in Pakistan` go by.. doesn`t mean I am beligerantly nationalistic. Patriotic pride is manifestly different from beligerant nationalism. So please don`t feel free to direct any more posts to me.. I didn`t post to you either... if you have a problem with Fawad, deal with him... Don`t bring me into it.

-YLH

re: PM # 458

PM, far more destructive and harmful than insult is obfuscation, and deliberate misleading of others.

Swamping a website or ANY other medium of communication with bilge and undecipherable mumbo-jumbo - even if that bilge and mumbo-jumbo appears as divine inspiration to demented minds - obfuscates issues. It distorts communication.

People who recognize the bilge don`t read it. Then these bilge and mumbo-jumbo mongerering pigs turn around and claim their views have validity because they are not challenged.

THAT is pathetic.

It appears that Chowk staff is pissed off and sensored my last post, so posting it again ...

Zafar #395

Don`t worry, I think chowk staff laid off themselves after dot-com collapse. Otherwise they would have done much more and taken care of that crap that is a featured articled for more than an year now.

romair

``The US is one terrorist attack away from launching a legal assault against Muslims. ``

... actually the assault has already started and rightfully so - it is about time someone took a stand against an ideology that is inherently hostile towards western civilization and bent upon destroying baseball ..... so they have shut down almost all the islamic charities like holy land foundation, global relief and benevolence international .... thank you for reducing my junk mail .... now if ashcroft can stop seditious publicaitons like horizon and minaret from cluttering my mail box ......

..... but you are right, abdul has nothing to worry about - he will keep on living in state subsidized housing, collect ssi and food stamps, and cheating on his taxes while plotting the demise of america .....the rest of us will also suffer if we don`t let abdul speak for us and, more importantly, for our children ......

When I said `Weak intellectual tradition amongst women` .. I meant `Pakistani women` who have been denied the opportunity by the oppressive male dominated Pakistani culture.

Fawad,

Dude, don`t leave.. These `South-Asianist` Pakistani-origin Palestine Lovers are usually

airheads... Her reply in which she chose to include me is a testament to her arrogance.

As you can see none of what she makes sense. All of sudden she has construed my genuine grievance against Sheema Kirmani, the shameless liar from Karachi, as an attack on all feminism especially the `tehreek-e-Niswah` or the women`s movement. This is the extent of her understanding.. the world must be very black and white place for the likes of her. I mean, you know me dude.. if there ever was a male feminist, it would be me...

Sadly in Pakistan, the women`s movement has been hijacked by clowns and mimes like sheema Kirmani.. gone are the days of genuine feminists like Pakistan movement stalwart Begum Shahnawaz, who actually was the author of the Muslim family laws and a successful crusader against polygamy. Gone are the days of Begum Raana Liaqat Ali Khan, who despite being a triple minority rose to be the first woman governor. Malik Meraj Khaled`s wife, another such social reformer who has worked to uplift the millions in Pakistan, is now too old to lead.. Even Asma Jahangir and her sister Hina Jelani have kept a conspicious distance from these clowns.

Dearth of such women as I have mentioned, has created a leadership vacuum, filled by liars, thieves, crooks amongst others... what has this `tehreek-e-Niswah` done for women except arrange tea parties? Have the women in Pakistan been delivered from their ordeal.

The women of Pakistan deserve better, and there are many capable women in Pakistan, women who are doctors, lawyers, pilots, businesswomen, writers etc professional women who are now emerging as the new creed, the new leadership of Pakistan. These women have no time for nonsense, of giving stupid interviews to bewildered nytimes, or making monkey moves in the name classical dance infront of the `Horticultural society of Pakistan` though I agree they should have an equal opportunity as anyone to do such monkey business.

Inshallah, this October atleast 60 Women will take their place as the legislators in pakistan`s national assembley. Perhaps someday this number will rise to 200 ... and then more Begum Shahnawazes, more begum Mairaj khaleds, more begum raana liaqat alis will emerge as the true leaders of the women`s movement and indeed of Pakistan... that day clowns and mimes will be no longer be relevant to `feminism`.. nor would monkey business be seen as `expression of women`s inherent strength`.

People like Sheema Kirmani are the result of a weak intellectual tradition amongst women, .. we have kept the women locked up in their rooms, we have denied them education, we have treated them like property.. we have not let them develop. The result is apparent... feeble minded, stupid and idiotic women like Sheema Kirmani!

Samina Shah says that my outburst against sheema kirmani shows a lack of respect for women. I must disagree.. it is out of my respect for women that I have classified sheema Kirmani as less than a woman... but more like .. well you know what. I have the utmost respect for women, and that is precisely why I can`t even begin to imagine a woman stooping so low...

Sincerely

YLH

Let me make it clear to people like Samina Shah once again:

Logical Progression:

Sheema Kirmani made a claim: `In Pakistan dancing is prohibited by Law`

Do we even need to comment on the validity of that claim? Ever see a Pakistani movie, not that I would suggest it given the quality... When I was growing up (Let us not Forget in Zia`s time) we were taught Khathak in my school. So I know it for a fact that she is lying.

So the Obvious Conclusion: Sheema Kirmani is a liar. Actually she is a shameless, deceitful, conniving liar.



I wonder where all the grudge about `Indian-wannabe` came up from? ... I have absolutely no problem with Indian wannabes, as long as they don`t lie about Pakistan.. though one thing I know about Sheema Kirmani, she makes it a point to declare that she is a Pakistani. She is not a `Bit-ch` because she is an Indian-wannabe, that is debateable.. Sheema Kirmani is a `bit-ch` because she has uttered a Blatant lie and she has repeated it as many times as Possible...

Now samina shah, I really didn`t want to have a discussion with you. You were having some sort of a debate with Fawad Malik. Please go to www.rutgers.edu and look up his email address. Then settle your disputes with him... BUT never .. ever address a post to me when I have not provoked you. I really don`t understand why people are getting so worked up about my definition of Sheema Kirmani. Is she a sacred cow too now?

Pakistan has some great female classical dancers.. like Naheed Siddiqui, who are the best in the World, better than any Indian dancers. Sheema Kirmani doesn`t figure in any way shape or form... she is hungry for fame and that is precisely why she has resorted to outright lying ..

If you insist on `defending` this lying evil woman... do this for me... Please find me the law that prohibits `DANCING` in Pakistan. Please do so... and then I will admit that Sheema Kirmani is the Gospel of the truth...And if you can`t, then shut your little traps and admit that I was right!!!! that she is what I called her...

So many precious lives were lost in Karachi.. the french were only helping us build the Agosta submarines... these idiotic fundoos they can`t even aim right... If they had asked me, I would have given them a much better target.

-YLH