Another One Bites The Dust

Samina Shah,

You addressed a post to me. I am not sure why. I have given up on you a long time ago, and am really not interested in babblings of a wannabe Palestinian, South Asianist Pakistani-American.

Just because there are other sane people out there who share my contempt for the south asianists/ Palestine sympathizers , doesn`t mean that I should be addressed in your posts...

Fawad Malik is neither 21 years old, nor is he merely a college student. He is about to graduate with a doctorate in Pharmacy. You are welcomed to look him up...

Sincerely

YLH

PS Come to think of it, I am only a month away from my 22nd Birthday as well.

aNny,

I can`t believe you would support a woman who has so blatantly lied... It was not something unflattering.. it was an outright lie.. According to Sheema Kirmani, Dancing is banned by Law in Pakistan...

Now you and I both know how stupid and idiotic such a claim in.

hari inder,

Hopefuly you read my posts on the other board and saw that Sabre was grounded by the USAF in the mid 1950s...

Hamid,

Jumping Jihadis, Batman, I`m not defending Abdul in the US when he`s got mayhem on his mind and nibu he`d rather make khatai with and not lemonade...

anNy

Really, there seems to be a serious lack of tameez in several male interactors lately, esp. when writing to or about women interactors. I`ll bet they`ll like it less if we started to write about them in the same manner...several good points in your post esp. those about being able to be critical and loyal to one`s country. You at least seem to succeed where your deluded brother fail in understanding the limits of sense and nationalism gone mad.

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`The one measure of true love is: you can insult the other`

by Sabine Reul and Thomas Deichmann

http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/00000002D2C4.htm

PM, Samina

Long time - My point was it is both Illiberal and closed minded to ask Chowk to censor the post of a select few - It`s too long, it`s too short, this best is too hard, this bed too soft..

If one disagrees with the post, engage the poster - presumably whoever is posting desires discussion of the content of the post - or, if one does not wish to discuss, simply ignore it - It`s the equivalent of persons complaining that some TV programs are objectionable - therefore everybody else must be subjected to their taste in TV programs - it`s unfair.

re: saminashah #457

...why do you even bother....

re: Chowk`s clown and Sheema Kirmani

Chowk`s clown says Sheema Kirmani is a mediocre dancer. That may be so. We are not talking about how good a dancer this person is. We are talking about her right to express her feelings and emotions through the medium of art. While the whole scrotum-scratching Paki crowd goes to see Meera`s belle-dancing and ogle at her belly button, a genuine dancer is unable to even earn a proper livelihood because of this islamic misinterpretation. Again the mullahs are at work here. If it were Meera (or whoever is the latest belle-dancer on the Pak screen now) and not an aging Kirmani doing Kathak dance, i am sure even the mullahs would be sitting in front bench to ogle at her.

Sridhar

hamidm aka aapa abdul surayya

It looks like that abdul in Lahore is way more pissed than I am.

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm

The only difference is that, I am not as forgiving with my words, as he is.

Harpreet

And Urstruly`s good luck that at that very moment the clock struck 12 noon.

Urstruly yelled (while holding his balls in one hand) ``You sikhs are morons, you know that? dont ya``

Harpreet ``No we are not``

Urstruly `` I can prove it to ya``.

Urstruly puts his hand on the brick wall and asks Harpreet to hit it with all his might. Harpreet swings a punch and hit Urstruly`s hand with all the force he could muster. Urstruly removes his hand just before Harpreet was about to hit. Harpreet falls down on the ground with pain holding his hand close to his stomach.

``see what I mean`` said Urstruly. And starts walking.

``Wait`` cried Harpreet ``you pakis are moron too. And I can prove it to you``.

``Oh yeah?`` said Urstruly, ``knock yourself out``.

Harpreet starts looking for a brick wall but couldn`t find one. He thinks for a moment and puts one hand against his own face.

``Now hit me`` Harpreet says connivingly.

progressive #419 you write ``For Muslims & Islam-lovers only``

Read again my post #402 (which you conveniently ignored) and tell me how you dare to call yourself a muslim while (as explained in that post) you are:

(a) ridiculing the basic injunctions of the Quran concerning respect for all religions (since they dont fit with your reptilian mind);

(b) decorating your post with toilet and sexual words (and that too in the context of muslim rituals);

(c) writinging clear (and vicious) lies;

(d) betraying yourself to be a special kind of coward who is afraid even of getting a response on an anonymous board (as opposed to the ordinary kind of coward who merely does a. and b. above).

YLH

Cool down man, why are you so angry all the time. It will only raise your blood pressure. This is just a debate; there is no need to be abusive. From your posts I understand you have been in US for some time and mostly in the academic field. In your field one thing you should have learnt is not to resort to name calling. Or is that you have a duel personality? One for the white skins and another for the desis.

In my post on the `white men...`, I admitted in the start of my post that my knowledge of the subject was spotty. So if I made any wrong assumptions, I am willing to be corrected.

After reading your post I tried to do some research of my own. I found a lot of sights on PAF, where your compatriots sing praises of the quality of your fighter pilots. Lacking any back ground in air warfare, I can not assess the degree of the fairness of these sights. The following article interested me because it had a direct bearing on our discussion.

http://www.piads.com.pk/users/piads/azam1.html

The Pakistani Versus

The Indian Fighter Pilot

By Rai Muhammad Saleh Azam

Although for the most part it is reflects your point of view, in its introduction it says:

`Since India has been successful in narrowing the technology gap, which Pakistan possessed over India for three decades from the early 1960s to the late 1980s`.

The above presupposes the fact, that the PAF had a technology edge unto the 1980s, which was my contention. I don`t know what the author’s background is but, but from the depth of knowledge he has, I would assume him to be an ex PAF officer. If there is any bias, it would be if favor of his country.

hamidm #426: Why doesn`t Abdul follow basketball, and support Hakeem Aloujowan. The guy fasts while playing in the playoffs. What about Kareem Abdul Jabbar? He didn`t do too bad.

Why not follow boxing? Muhammad Ali is the flavor of the month, all of a sudden. He was first put in jail, and is then asked to light the flame at the Olympics. Maybe the same thing will happen with Abdul.

But, the people in trouble in the USA will not be the Adbuls. Abduls have a clear direction in life. They don`t care whether they are on the US social security system, or getting zakat money in Pakistan. They want to destroy Israel, and anyone who supports Israel`s policies (which are actually more out of touch with US values, then even the ideas Abdul proposes; but for some strange reason, Yitzak, who looks even more odd than Abdul, with his round black hat and curly hair, is considered normal). The Abduls have already decided to take on the US, and are ready for the countereffects.

The real problem will be faced by the watered- down Abduls, i.e. the Muslims in the US who want to distance themselves from the Abduls (for all the right reasons), but may have ended up in no-man`s land. To the goras, they will always be Muslims, regardless of how many Red Wing games they attend. And to the Abduls, they will always be the, ``Munafiqeens.``

The US is one terrorist attack away from launching a legal assault against Muslims. Just like most societies, there was tolerance in the US society for one major attack, which has occured. If (or when, as the CIA has suggested that it is bound to happen) the next one occurs, it will result in a John Ashcroft vs. Abdul confrontation. Abdul is ready for the fight. But to John Ashcroft, all Muslims will be Abdul, even the ones who drink cold Buds at hockey games, and go out of their way to shave twice everyday to avoid the terrible beard.

What will happen to these Abdul-avoiding Muslims, after the next terrorist attack? If their skin color isn`t as pink as Ashcroft`s, they will get trampled from both directions. This group needs to be ready for such a situation. Either they need to be ready to change their religion, or they need to go easy on Abdul, and realize that when Ashcroft is on the move, the Abdul`s maybe the only group ready to stand up for them.

CHOWKIES - Indian Foreign service officer and intellectual, M. K. Bradrakumar warns, in his ``The post-modern world & South Asia``:

``In the South Asian region, there could be more than one country which does not match the altered substance of the post-modern states.`` What`s a post-modern state?

IS ANYBODY THINKING OUT THERE? - With our ``tribalism`` torn to shreds, ``Faithless`` and lost, more slaves than ever before, affraid to take our destiny in our own hands, the ``Victims`` of others ideas, others experience of shaping their world - we need to think where it is we are and if we shall survive, what will be the terms of that bargain, Esteemed Prof. Kwaja Masud offers insight:

``Uncertainty rules heterotopia

Prof Khwaja Masud

The writer is a former principal, Gordon College, Rawalpindi

kmasud@isb.sdnpk.org

``Post-modern world is heterotopia i.e. a place where things are different and a collection whose members have few intelligible connections with one another.``

Michael Foncault

The airport of a metropolis is the emblem of our turbulent times. It may be considered as a social force in its own right -- a metaphor of related technologies and social developments. Travellers from every corner of the world streams in and out, travellers with cultural baggage and economic interests that bear no relation to those of their fellow travellers. The passengers may not have anything in common; but, for airports to work, workers and passengers alike must understand and adhere to a complicated combination of rules and regulations. There may be cut-throat competition between airlines which nevertheless must adhere to traffic and safety regulations without which air operations could not be possible.

The international airport is both an agent and a symbol of the new global economy that is eclipsing the nation-state, but from the passport and customs control to air traffic control and international aviation agreements the airport is one of the places in our society where the power of nation-states is most keenly felt. The airport is also of man`s triumph over the forces of nature; yet, quite often subject to the vagaries of the weather.

Michael Foncault, the postmodernist French philosopher has a one-word description of the airport -- heterotopia. Utopia is a place where everything is good. Dystopia is a place where everything is bad. Heterotopia is a place where things are different i.e. a collection where members have few intelligible connections with one another. This, increasingly is what we perceive our world has become: to feel this perception is to enter the mostmodern world.

Some see a utopian future of mass affluence made possible by the third wave of capitalism (the third wave is surging ahead after the collapse of the Soviet Union). Others see a despotic future in which political power and economic inequality defend themselves through their control of new techniques and information networks.

The nation-state itself is the subject of sharply contrasting predictions. Some point to the erosion of national sovereignty by international market forces and the multinational companies and to the decentralising effects of the electronic highway which pierces through every boundary -- geographical, political and ideological.

As a consequence, some proclaim the imminent demise of the nation-state. Others look at the intensification of ethnic loyalties and see a revival of ethnic chauvinism and national rivalries. Some see a future of unlimited abundance based on humanity`s increased control of natural forces, others think that the earth is on the verge of Malthusian disaster and an ecological apocalypse.

The dominant feature of postmodernism is not only that all these scenarios are plausible, but also that no one is sure. The prevalent mode is that of uncertainty -- uncertainty which leads to scepticism ending in anarchy or fundamentalism i.e going back to the past in search of a panacea.

Taken together these experiences of powerful but opposing historical currents constitute the basis of the phenomenon of postmodernity. In our age, contradictions intensify but are not resolved. We have lost the confidence that our ancestors had that the contradictions would be resolved in due course. Hence our ancestors had faith in progress, which we, the denizens of the post-modern have lost. We live in a hetreotopia. This is how the post-modernists who believe that our world has become a heterotopia, describe the contemporary reality.

Francis Fukuyema has declared the end of history because liberal democracy has triumphed over Marxism, and, ideologically, there is no going beyond that. Alternatively, the French social critic Jean Bandrillard argues history may have ended because we have realised that progress was an illusion from the beginning.

The unresolved debate is whether heterotopia is a utopia or dystopia. The optimist of the right sees postmodernism as the triumph of laissez faire capitalism. The post-modernists of the left sees the collapse of the Soviet Union as an opening up of new prospects of liberation. As the structures and myths that perpetuate social control and conformity disappear, the new autonomy of ethnic minorities; and, above all, the new freedom of women, appear to point towards a more humane and open future. Some of them interpret post-modernity and the end of contradiction as the collapse of the quest of justice and social emancipation. They see post-modernity not as a triumph over oppression but as the triumph of oppression.

None of these positions does full justice to the post-modern world. Postmodernity is a very complex condition and its relationship to collapsed socialism is more dynamic than either its fans or critics appreciate. Postmodernism is not the end of history; rather, the moment in which observers become aware that modernity has given way to something new. It is a moment in both the chronological and philosophical senses of the term. It is a short period of time and it is a stage in a larger process of dialectical change.

Postmodernism is less the manifestation of the solution of the world`s problems than a statement of them. It is less the finale of the past age than the overture of the next. What is the role of the leader in the postmodernist world? First of all, the leader must understand the dynamics of the postmodern world. Only then the leader will be in a position to guide the people through the intricacies of the post modern world. By leadership is meant leadership at all levels, not merely confined to the top.

Leadership at all levels must not lose sight of the zeitgeist (the spirit of the age) i.e. the idea which is dominating at a particular stage of history. There are differences between the creative process in science and art and the creative process in statecraft. One is the question of timing. Science and art cannot be hurried. Statecraft is always under the clock. The statesman is the victim of emergency, the prisoner of crisis and even in normal times, the servant of the deadlines. He must often seize ideas before their time and use them without knowledge of consequences. Worse the statesman often confronts situations in which if he waits too long to be sure about facts, he may lose the opportunity to control developments.

The statesman is for ever coming to terms with others. In a democratic polity in the post-modern world, the dialectic of compromise prevails all the way down, as post-modernism is characterised by eclecticism. While artists, writers and scientists reject compromise, march ahead on their own and bet on the consent of the future, the leader requires consent now, if he is to achieve anything. The artist and the scientist have time and space, the leader has little enough of either especially in the post-modern world. Humanity has never needed great leadership more urgently than it does in the post-modern world characterised by complexity and uncertainty and leadership has never more urgently needed the collaboration of an ardent and informed people living in heterotopia.``

oye sucker,

Urstruly moves into the house next door to Harpreet.

One day, one of the chickens that Urstruly breeds in his back garden for halal jumps into Harpreets garden and lays its eggs there. Urstruly feels like having ommelette so asks Harpreet to give the eggs to him. Harpreet says ``No way man! They were layed in my garden so they belong to me``

Urstruly gets really stressed out and starts crying. ``Look Sardarji, please give me them, I have to cook breakfast for my boyfriend``

Harpreet says ``OK. In Birmingham we have an old tradition to decide these things. We take turns to kick each other in the bollocks and the person who gets up in the fastest time keeps the eggs. Wanna try it? I will go first``

``OK sounds good`` says Urstruly.

Harpreet runs from the end of the street picking up speed like Carl Lewis, he pulls his right foot back like a David Beckham free kick, and boots Urstruly in the groin with such force he goes flying through the air past the clouds. People on a PIA flight see him through their windows and pray to God in amazement. Some migrating birds s * *t on his head. He eventually falls back down to earth battered and bruised, his testicles crushed and disorientated. After much effort and pain he gradually raises himself from the ground and says ``OK, get ready, now its my turn``

Harpreet says, ``naaaaah man, its alright, I change my mind, you can keep the eggs``

-h-

re: mullah urstooly

{with a mediocre command in english language}

you mean mediocre command `of` the english langauge