Another One Bites The Dust

ylh:

`Your favorite `Sheema Kirmani` has set a magnificent new record in self hate and self derision by making up stories about Pakistan and then telling them to a stupid NY Times reporter..I hope you know what I am talking about... Actually she is really a very mediocre dancer, and this is why she has chosen to publicise herself by making herself look like some sort of a heroic figure, which she really isn`t... You know what Sheema Kirmani is.. She is distasteful, lying scheming, conniving Bit-ch.`

yasser, why is everyone who says something non-flattering about pakistan a liar, scheming or something equally nasty? i love pakistan, but its one messed up country, what you gonna do to me haan? atleast think a few times, why is the woman being called names because she speaks of the bad times she had in the country? is this what the country stands for, itna weak foundations, are we this insecure? sheema kirmani has brough to pakistan some fine things, dance and theatre being the foremost..and baby, you dont know what youre saying; `mediocre dancer` indeed...her tehrik-e-niswaan has done a superb job of addressing issues and i really think you need to get your head checked...if the woman has faced problems and she has (how can she not when an interview where she speaks about the barriers she faces in pakistan, cause a young man studying at a good school, literate and coming from a good background generally to call her a b!tch) she has every right to speak about it, nytimes hoae ya cnn ya hindustan times...just like you can go on and on about the air force and jinnah and other good things about pakistan, she has the right to talk of the bad or the good..free will, kya?...and dont throw one of your tantrums when you reply, talk tameez sae

re Hobbyty #437:

``It is a disgraceful shame that there are even such an intolerant melieu on Chowk - Let the market place of ideas and opinion, function! Censorship? of hate speech? let`s discusss it - let`s avoid demands to censor posts that offer ideas that should be discussed, debated.``

C`mon prof. hobbs, you know it`s teh form, not substance that is objected to. Also, the sheer pain of having to scroll through endless lines of cutandpaste.

Methinks this is a pathethic low-blow-- trying desperately to pin the opnent down through sophistic misrepresentation of his (supposed) position.

There is nothing in liberalism that suggest the absence of censorship of material that is designed merely to insult (as oopposed to engage in dialogue)

rgds,

PM

fawad, ylh, inyourface,

``The South Asian American Generation`` as defined by Samar Magazine

``In this issue we turn our attention to the question of generation. The articles in this forum ask critical questions and reveal the multiple perspectives within ``the South Asian American generation.`` We hope it begins a conversation that will continue. So we leave you to consider along with us how generation might be a useful distinction to consider within the South Asian diaspora. How does it help to shape our consciousness, our communities, and our struggles? What difference does a generation make?

The dogmas of war continue to haunt the South Asian American Community in the aftermath of 9/11. What does it mean to be `political` after 9/11? What kinds of `fundamentalisms` become salient in this age of bombs and military tribunals? What are the new ways in which we can organize against the confluence of right-wing forces that are moving centerstage, both in South Asia and the West? What is the relationship between the current conflict and the tortured hisories of US imperialism, religious conservatism and market fundamentalism.``

www.samar.org

Now if you`ve got any questions about who is South Asian, go look at the Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans who are part of the this collective and figure it out. Do the work for yourselves and hopefully you will be fit to a conversation with afterwards. And don`t go around for the rest of your lives expecting to be spoon fed various perspectives -this is what critical thinking and social action is about if you plan on speaking for others (which you should be not)

Banjara-ji

Testing circumstances bring out both the best and worst in us. Here is one such story from the riot afflicted Gujrat.

http://www.indian-express.com/full_story.php?content_id=2620

We want our Muslim neighbours back, life isn’t the same’



At Naroda Patiya, Hindu families regret not being able to save those who were killed — and wait for the ones who fled to return

Ahmedabad, May 12 In the ghost town that is Naroda Patiya today, Sej Bahadur longs for some human company.

In his lane comprising 15 houses, Sej Bahadur (75) was the only one left behind, untouched and unharmed. His Muslim neighbours fled after the February 28 massacre. ‘‘They used to look after me whenever I was ill, get food for me from the market. I was chacha to everyone, from children to grandparents,’’ he says. ‘‘This lane, this whole locality is no longer the same.’’

The day after the Godhra attack, armed mobs surrounded Naroda Patiya. Around 85 Muslims were reportedly killed that long, bloody day. Of the 1,000-odd houses in the slum, only those belonging to Hindus were spared, identified by images of gods, diyas and puja niches.

The Hindus fled too, and took refuge at the Dhanushdhari Mata temple across the road from Naroda Patiya. Many went away from there to their villages or to relatives’ homes and haven’t returned since.

However, around 20 of the 50-odd Hindu families with homes in Naroda Patiya have chosen to return after they had nowhere else to go. They say oppressive loneliness is all around, in every empty lane, in the ashes of the demolished and burnt shanties, outside every destroyed house, in the mangled iron cots and utensils that are still strewn about.

Bahadur was among the first to return. ‘‘I started living here again eight days after the riots, although everyday I would come here to light a lamp at a Nageshwar shrine,’’ he says. ‘‘But I wish my neighbours return. My life is not complete without them.’’

Standing outside his kholi, where he has lived for 50 years, Bahadur speaks of how he has seen his lost neighbour’s children grow up, get married, and have their children calling him chacha.

‘‘Today, I’m not even sure how many of them are alive,’’ he says, choking. ‘‘I saw Ravan take over mankind that day. I could do nothing to save my neighbours, I myself had to run from the attacking haivaans.’’

Like Bahadur, the Mishras’ home is one of the pockets of life in the desolate slum. Prabhashankar Mishra, a factory hand, has persuaded his brother and five other members of his joint family to return to their Pandit Ni Chawl hovel, built by his father. ‘‘We wish they were back, our Muslim neighbours,’’ says Mishra, who has lived in the colony for more than 40 years. ‘‘Never before has this lane seemed so haunted.’’

``

Read the rest of the article in the URL provided

re: fawad79 # 430

More power to you, man.

hamidm,

It is not just Abduls but such people of all religions...

Neither education nor wealth seems to attenuate fanaticism...it is an inborn trait...a need to destroy all but their own version of heaven.

The only person more dangerous than a religious fanatic is a fanatic who acquires education and becomes wealthy.

why abdul hates america ..

saminashah says he is, `` disenfranchised and subsequently misled by fundo beliefs. As we all know, their class based, poverty contextualized rage is an understandable result, and leaves them ripe for the exploiting by messianic and mythological illusions and mass movements based in violence.``

.... that might be so in the case of those who grew up in londonistan, manchesterabad and briminghamistan ..... but what is wrong with abdul in detroit - he who came of his own free will to the land of the free and went to wayne state or western michigan and now works for the evil global automotive industry and makes a six figure salaries and lives in the suburbia with a 2.5 car garage and a big screen tv ......for god`s sake what`s wrong with him? .... why does he hang arabic stuff six inches from the ceiling all over his house and rant and rail against the country that gave him blue cross and blue shield? ..........why does he hate apple-pie and hot-dogs and names his son osama ? ...... he wasn`t brought to america in chains and on a slave ship? .... he didn`t have to cross the rockies in covered wagons fight the indians - the only indians that menace him are those who can write better c code than him? .... so what ails abdul? ......

........ i think i know the answer

re: PM

``it is always amusing to read authors with agendas compare the best of one system with the worst of another and pretend to ascribe to their findings a veneer of academic objectivity.``

True.

Many chowk interactions follow a standard patterns of pure illogic. These patterns of pure illogic are well-established and easy to decipher.

People advancing such ``logic`` have either never taken a course in objective logic and in data analysis, are just dumb, or, perhaps in rare cases, are just liers.

Now, I could be accused of that as well. Ah well...that is life :)

re: ``...All the so called ``liberal`` and ``open minded`` on Chowk reveal their true colors - They ask that some Chowk posters be censored - they disagree with the content of these posts - and as they are ``open minded`` - they cannot tolerate a plurality of ideas and opinions - it`s their way or the hiway...``

Hobbyty,

We`ve been more than fair and tolerant to these interactors, far beyond the limits of normal acceptance. Arguably, YOU are capable of having a decent dialogue even if your viewpoint is not agreed with. The interactors whom you defend not only spam our boards with endless cut and pastes, but these cut and pastes come from dubious sources and points of questionable objectivity. There is a specific device/intent in this spamming of the boards- a delusion idea that they are ``educating`` Chowkies, or speaking to a community of like minded interactors. If that is the case, why can`t they just type a url address and leave it there?

They don`t because they want to force it on us, regardless of the inconvenience or distrust or disinterest on our parts. Hardly an attempt at goodwill and dialogue. When I see a post from these interactors,I automatically scroll, and yes I was amused by the byline of some recent cutpastes that announced the articles were meant for Muslims only!

In short, there is a difference between free speech and bombasting us with cutpastes on subjects that (and Hobbyty, you are not going to like this, but too bad)these interactors have no credibility in discussing. So why don`t they get the message? Does free speech mean boorish behavior? And why should it be at my phone bill`s expense?

Banjara and Prem

A lil correction in my Holmesian analysis. Althoug it is reasonable to assume that you migrated between 47 and 57, it gives me the rather ``improbable`` figure of 60-65 to 70-75 as your age. I second guess that your age should be between 40-50 since I find it difficult to imagine that a 65 year old man would take a liking to the computer and interact on a public forum. Then the time period around which you migrated comes down to around 1980 assuming you migrated to Pak in your twenties. Or there is this possibility that you have spent your entire adulthood in india and migrated to Pak only very recently(last 5 years??).

12 head,

re``...Did i ever DO anything to you ?``

Tumara damakh theek hai?

Yaad hai 12 head, that you were so obnoxious that Chowk held a poll asking readers to decide whether to kick you off the website?

And you yourself crying big crocodile tears and writing you were going to Sulekha whose chatboard immediately doubled with complaints by female interactors commenting on harrassing male nicks?

How`s that burqa going? Wearing it when you get your social security checks?

Banjara

This is from another board:

``Bhai maajra kuch bhi nahin.One of your countrymen

taunted us Pakistanis that we know nothing about India and Indians and that forced me to tell him

a thing or two about India``

Impossible!!! you CAN NOT be a Pakistani alone. I am ready to bet my entire life savings on that. You must have lived in India for at least 10-15 years. Let me wear my Sherlock Holmes cap to analyze you. It is possible that you live in Pakistan now, hence you call yourself Pakistani, but you have definitely spend AT LEAST 10-15 years in rural India, central UP to be specific. You have very intimate knowledge of the central UP dialects, something that one can NEVER learn by reading books or surfing web. You also know Hinduism in all its colorful details and the favorite stories of valor and courage sung in rural India besides being sympathetic towards Hinduism. Also you seem to come from a well to do family. So let me guess that you belonged to the house of one of the Taluqdars based somewhere in Central UP in United India. Your entire childhood was then spent in rural India but you must have gone to one of those elite schools( well to do??), and this explains your rather intimate knowledge of rural dialects. I remember you translated something disgusting that hydra(Aamir) called scout in Bengali. Since Central UPites dont know Bengali, so you must have had some contact with Bengalis or might have lived in Bengal for some reason. Then perhaps you migrated to Pakistan( Karachi??) after partition. Most probably you migrated to Pak between 1947-1957 period. If you were 30 years old when you migrated(say in 1957) then you should be between 70-75 years now, if it was 20, then you should be 60-65 now. It can not be less than 20(remember at least 15 years in India...) nor it can be greater than 40(average lifetime is about 80 years). You write more about central UP than pakistan, and that is consistent with the fact that childhood memories are often stronger. You must have migrated to Pak `coz again you display knowledge about Pak that is not usually found in books/web.

PS Any fool can tell that Aamir/hydra is an Indian Muslim. He has knowledge of dialects of some Indian languages but he knows NOTHING about Pakistan. By nothing I mean specific knowledge, not the one obtained by surfing the web or reading tourist guide.

fawad,

re:``next come the south asianist(indian wanna be) witness samina and her ramblings on palestine ......notice how the posts on palestine are endless... is she palestinians? no is she arab no? do you see an idnian(sic) posting on palestine? no do you see any indian posting on the state of hindus in bangladessh? no again wherever u have soutb asianism you see the deep undertones of islamism....``

Dude, Your definition of South Asia is not mine. In fact, before you and ylh starting the usual jumping up and down the boards and chanting, I want you to understand that there is a very specific political orientation to using the concept of South Asian and it is NOT being Indian only. If you are sincerely interested, you can check out some of these ideas on www.asiapacificforum.org. Its not too difficult.

In the meantime, I will not argue with any 21 year old male children who have the unmitigated nerve and lack of respect for themselves, women and artists that they have the audacity and idiocy to refer to people like S. Kermani as ``bitches`` or India-wannabes because they will not lockstep into some adolescent and testoserone addled nationalistic mythology that LIES about our histories. Freak off if you think you can shove it down our throats.

AS for Palestine, Fawad, my interest in Palestine is in support for democratic and progressive change in order for all of its peoples in Palestine and Israel to leave in peace. Stick that in your ovaltine and drink it.

amina shah # 409

``Dr. Hamida Khuhro, Yusuf Masti Khan, Usman Baloch and almost every other speaker called the original 1940 Pakistan resolution a compact among the nationalities, and any among them may walk out if it was not treated as an equal partner. That may remain an ambition or a pipedream but should have served its purpose if it were to provide impetus to the creation of a genuine federation. Devolution without more subjects and resources being assigned to the provinces remains a farce.``

When Altaf Hussain says the same thing,you call him a traitor.But when Bhutto,Khuhro and Baloch

bring it up it becomes gospel.

Regards.

ylh

I dont think that sheema is a mediocre dancer....but lets admit it that she is only good at that. On other aspects, she is way out of her league. i agree.

Hobbyty

Good observations.

This so called enlightened specie has never stood up to any principle that they preach or tell us they beleive in. Lets admit it that they are close minded fascists, with a mediocre command in english language. Not petty tyrrants, but pathetic intellectual la miserables.