Feroz R Khan May 13, 2002
#1 Posted by saminashah on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
Well done.
Whats been even more disturbing is the erasing of the Israeli siege of Jenin and Sharon`s mandated shroud of silence around it-highly symbolic of the heavy handed and violent approach of this right wing govt., and the UN`s inability to address the siege despite the outrage and condemnation of almost every country existing.
What would be interesting is to focus on the Israeli settlers who continue to be instrumental to the issues of contention. My guess is that they will have to be dragged out kicking and screaming or Palestinians will have to be killed to make room for them. Clearly the latter is not a morally viable answer.
Whats been even more disturbing is the erasing of the Israeli siege of Jenin and Sharon`s mandated shroud of silence around it-highly symbolic of the heavy handed and violent approach of this right wing govt., and the UN`s inability to address the siege despite the outrage and condemnation of almost every country existing.
What would be interesting is to focus on the Israeli settlers who continue to be instrumental to the issues of contention. My guess is that they will have to be dragged out kicking and screaming or Palestinians will have to be killed to make room for them. Clearly the latter is not a morally viable answer.
#2 Posted by dullabhatti on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
Chowkstaff: How hard is it to publish articles on a regular basis? like one article every Monday and Friday or something similar.
Looks like someone drank too much coffee today in the chowk backroom. Be a little sensible. Don`t torture us please.
Looks like someone drank too much coffee today in the chowk backroom. Be a little sensible. Don`t torture us please.
#3 Posted by arjun_m on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
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#4 Posted by arjun_m on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
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#5 Posted by progressive on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
Sleeping well?----Please do.Igorance is bliss.
Or maybe you are sleeping WITH the enemy.Anyway enjoy the sojourn with your colonial cousinns while it lasts.
__________________________________________________
U.S. pays PR guru to make its points
Firm`s Pentagon work is lucrative, and top secret
By Stephen J. Hedges
Washington Bureau
Published May 12, 2002
WASHINGTON -- When U.S. troops go into a war zone, John Rendon is rarely far behind.
He was in Panama in 1989 for the brief invasion that toppled strongman Manuel Noriega. He was in Kuwait when allied forces took it back from Saddam Hussein in 1991, making sure that citizens had little American flags to wave for the conquering troops and television cameras. He has worked in Haiti and in the Balkans, and is now fully engaged in the war against terrorism.
But John Rendon is not a military officer, government adviser, diplomat, spy or journalist. He is, to use his own words, ``an information warrior and a perception manager.``
Rendon makes images, manipulates scenes and manages news. He advises politicians and spreads propaganda.
Rendon and his public-relations firm, The Rendon Group, have many clients, but none bigger--or more loyal--than the U.S. government.
Shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the Pentagon gave Rendon a $100,000-a-month contract to track foreign news reports and offer advice on media strategy. Rendon also worked for the Defense Department in the Balkans, according to a Pentagon spokesman.
The State Department, Central Intelligence Agency and foreign governments also have turned to Rendon in recent years for help in relaying and shaping messages for the mainstream, according to government officials and federal records. Rendon has beamed radio broadcasts into hostile countries, helped design leaflets for distribution in war-torn areas, and designed Web sites and run PR campaigns to give the U.S. spin on world events.
When the Pentagon earlier this year wanted to create an Office of Strategic Influence to spread its own version of the news in foreign lands, it asked Rendon for advice.
President Bush ultimately nixed the office after a storm of protest ...........continued
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/showcase/chi-0205120237may12.story?coll=chi%2Dnews%2Dhed
Or maybe you are sleeping WITH the enemy.Anyway enjoy the sojourn with your colonial cousinns while it lasts.
__________________________________________________
U.S. pays PR guru to make its points
Firm`s Pentagon work is lucrative, and top secret
By Stephen J. Hedges
Washington Bureau
Published May 12, 2002
WASHINGTON -- When U.S. troops go into a war zone, John Rendon is rarely far behind.
He was in Panama in 1989 for the brief invasion that toppled strongman Manuel Noriega. He was in Kuwait when allied forces took it back from Saddam Hussein in 1991, making sure that citizens had little American flags to wave for the conquering troops and television cameras. He has worked in Haiti and in the Balkans, and is now fully engaged in the war against terrorism.
But John Rendon is not a military officer, government adviser, diplomat, spy or journalist. He is, to use his own words, ``an information warrior and a perception manager.``
Rendon makes images, manipulates scenes and manages news. He advises politicians and spreads propaganda.
Rendon and his public-relations firm, The Rendon Group, have many clients, but none bigger--or more loyal--than the U.S. government.
Shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the Pentagon gave Rendon a $100,000-a-month contract to track foreign news reports and offer advice on media strategy. Rendon also worked for the Defense Department in the Balkans, according to a Pentagon spokesman.
The State Department, Central Intelligence Agency and foreign governments also have turned to Rendon in recent years for help in relaying and shaping messages for the mainstream, according to government officials and federal records. Rendon has beamed radio broadcasts into hostile countries, helped design leaflets for distribution in war-torn areas, and designed Web sites and run PR campaigns to give the U.S. spin on world events.
When the Pentagon earlier this year wanted to create an Office of Strategic Influence to spread its own version of the news in foreign lands, it asked Rendon for advice.
President Bush ultimately nixed the office after a storm of protest ...........continued
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/showcase/chi-0205120237may12.story?coll=chi%2Dnews%2Dhed
#6 Posted by progressive on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
Ma`shaAllah there are a great number of those with a sense of honour & dignity....not like the Monkey Re-Frendisent who is next Arafat in the making.
``Retreat is my strategy,and you call it so tragic
You are simply a muslim,you can`t follow my logic``
________________________________________________
Exile For Collaborators With U.S. Forces: Pakistani Tribal Leaders
Pakistanis protest U.S. presence in Pakistan
By Hosbanullah Mutawakil, IOL Central Asia correspondent
PESHAWAR, Pakistan, May 12 (IslamOnline) – The Pakistani tribes in the northern state of Wazirustan have agreed to exile, fine, and burn down the home of anyone who helps American forces in their hunt for Al-Qaeda and Taliban elements in the area.
The leaders of Bakakhil, Jannikhil, and Kabulkhil tribes have agreed that all who helped American commandos in the Showal jungles in Wazirustan will be fined 5 million Pakistani Rupees payable to the tribal council. Punishment will also include burning the house of the culprit, as well as exiling him from the area.
This comes after the failure of the Pakistani government to convince the leaders of these tribes to cooperate in anti-Taliban and Al-Qaeda operations in the Showal jungles.
Tribal leaders had placed conditions on the government’s appeal, saying that they would only cooperate if the U.S. forces in the area left. This condition was rejected.
The U.S. presence in Wazirustan, and the U.S.-led raids on religious schools in the Pakistani tribal region faces the collective opposition of the people of the region.
Mass demonstrations were held Friday, May 10, in many Pakistani cities to denounce American intervention and Pakistani President General Pervez Musharraf’s government policies.
Demonstrators held placards demanding, “Death to America”, and called on the government to expel U.S. forces from Pakistan.
Maulana Fadlurahman, the leader of Ulama’ul-Islam group spoke to demonstrators in Bagh Crawend Pemardan, telling them that “the Americans must listen carefully, and hear that we want security and peace in our country. And whoever sets our country on fire, let him know that his country will not remain safe and secure.”
He added that U.S.-led operations in the tribal region was offensive, and that it was the duty of the Pakistani government to take wise decisions regarding this.
Referring to the Karachi bus blast Wednesday, May 9, in which 11 French nationals working on a submarine project for the Pakistani navy were killed, Fadlurahman expressed his regret over the killing of foreigners in Pakistan.
“Foreigners who live in Pakistan are our guests. Our religious duty is to defend them. We must search for the people who really benefited from this incident, especially since these foreigners were working for the modernization of the Pakistani defense system.”
Fadlurahman stressed the importance of searching for the motives behind the blast, adding that the perpetrators were clearly enemies of Pakistan.
Maulawi Jawhar Shah told the demonstrators in Jarseda, a city in northern Peshawar, “We will not tolerate American intervention in our country.”
However, Iftikhar Hassan Shah, the ruler of Sarhad province denied the presence of U.S. soldiers in his province.
“Everything that was published in the newspapers about U.S. intervention, and the searching of religious schools are lies and rumors… The Pakistani government would not allow a foreign army to carry out operations in the border areas.”
He added, “The Pakistani government has undertaken all measures in its border areas to prevent Al-Qaeda and Taliban elements from entering Pakistani lands.”
``Retreat is my strategy,and you call it so tragic
You are simply a muslim,you can`t follow my logic``
________________________________________________
Exile For Collaborators With U.S. Forces: Pakistani Tribal Leaders
Pakistanis protest U.S. presence in Pakistan
By Hosbanullah Mutawakil, IOL Central Asia correspondent
PESHAWAR, Pakistan, May 12 (IslamOnline) – The Pakistani tribes in the northern state of Wazirustan have agreed to exile, fine, and burn down the home of anyone who helps American forces in their hunt for Al-Qaeda and Taliban elements in the area.
The leaders of Bakakhil, Jannikhil, and Kabulkhil tribes have agreed that all who helped American commandos in the Showal jungles in Wazirustan will be fined 5 million Pakistani Rupees payable to the tribal council. Punishment will also include burning the house of the culprit, as well as exiling him from the area.
This comes after the failure of the Pakistani government to convince the leaders of these tribes to cooperate in anti-Taliban and Al-Qaeda operations in the Showal jungles.
Tribal leaders had placed conditions on the government’s appeal, saying that they would only cooperate if the U.S. forces in the area left. This condition was rejected.
The U.S. presence in Wazirustan, and the U.S.-led raids on religious schools in the Pakistani tribal region faces the collective opposition of the people of the region.
Mass demonstrations were held Friday, May 10, in many Pakistani cities to denounce American intervention and Pakistani President General Pervez Musharraf’s government policies.
Demonstrators held placards demanding, “Death to America”, and called on the government to expel U.S. forces from Pakistan.
Maulana Fadlurahman, the leader of Ulama’ul-Islam group spoke to demonstrators in Bagh Crawend Pemardan, telling them that “the Americans must listen carefully, and hear that we want security and peace in our country. And whoever sets our country on fire, let him know that his country will not remain safe and secure.”
He added that U.S.-led operations in the tribal region was offensive, and that it was the duty of the Pakistani government to take wise decisions regarding this.
Referring to the Karachi bus blast Wednesday, May 9, in which 11 French nationals working on a submarine project for the Pakistani navy were killed, Fadlurahman expressed his regret over the killing of foreigners in Pakistan.
“Foreigners who live in Pakistan are our guests. Our religious duty is to defend them. We must search for the people who really benefited from this incident, especially since these foreigners were working for the modernization of the Pakistani defense system.”
Fadlurahman stressed the importance of searching for the motives behind the blast, adding that the perpetrators were clearly enemies of Pakistan.
Maulawi Jawhar Shah told the demonstrators in Jarseda, a city in northern Peshawar, “We will not tolerate American intervention in our country.”
However, Iftikhar Hassan Shah, the ruler of Sarhad province denied the presence of U.S. soldiers in his province.
“Everything that was published in the newspapers about U.S. intervention, and the searching of religious schools are lies and rumors… The Pakistani government would not allow a foreign army to carry out operations in the border areas.”
He added, “The Pakistani government has undertaken all measures in its border areas to prevent Al-Qaeda and Taliban elements from entering Pakistani lands.”
#7 Posted by progressive on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
Still fashionable?Still trying to raise children in your colonial masters` image?
READ ON! and PREPARE!
__________________________________________________
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/05/12/naut12.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/05/12/ixhome.html
__________________________________________________
Schools report rise in number of younger pupils with autism
By Lorraine Fraser, Medical Correspondent
(Filed: 12/05/2002)
TEACHERS are reporting an alarming increase in the number of children displaying symptoms of autism.
A survey by the National Autistic Society suggests that 124,000 schoolchildren in England and Wales - one in 86 - have educational difficulties associated with autism, or the related condition Asperger syndrome, a far greater proportion than previously thought.
In a particularly disturbing finding, it also found that the incidence of autism and Asperger`s is three times higher among primary than secondary school pupils - fuelling concerns that the number of children suffering from the symptoms is escalating rapidly.
According to the survey, the rate is one in 80 for children aged five to 11 compared with one in 268 for 11 to 18-year-olds.
The society has previously estimated that one in 110 of the population suffers from ``autism spectrum disorders``, and the Medical Research Council suggested last year that the rate for children under eight years old was one in 166.
...........continued.
READ ON! and PREPARE!
__________________________________________________
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/05/12/naut12.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/05/12/ixhome.html
__________________________________________________
Schools report rise in number of younger pupils with autism
By Lorraine Fraser, Medical Correspondent
(Filed: 12/05/2002)
TEACHERS are reporting an alarming increase in the number of children displaying symptoms of autism.
A survey by the National Autistic Society suggests that 124,000 schoolchildren in England and Wales - one in 86 - have educational difficulties associated with autism, or the related condition Asperger syndrome, a far greater proportion than previously thought.
In a particularly disturbing finding, it also found that the incidence of autism and Asperger`s is three times higher among primary than secondary school pupils - fuelling concerns that the number of children suffering from the symptoms is escalating rapidly.
According to the survey, the rate is one in 80 for children aged five to 11 compared with one in 268 for 11 to 18-year-olds.
The society has previously estimated that one in 110 of the population suffers from ``autism spectrum disorders``, and the Medical Research Council suggested last year that the rate for children under eight years old was one in 166.
...........continued.
#8 Posted by progressive on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
Even some good news is good news.The colonial-Globalising Thugs will go---inshaa`llah.
This is Pakistani muslim People ----not the puppets with alien accents.
__________________________________________________
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1981000/1981640.stm
Pakistan rocket attack on US troops
The local residents are furious about the presence of US troops
A rocket has been fired at a vocational school in Pakistan where US special forces were believed to be staying as they continue their search for al-Qaeda and Taleban fighters, a local official said.
The rocket missed its target and no-one was hurt, but it was the second time in two weeks that the building in the semi-autonomous tribal region near the Afghan border has come under rocket attack.
Seven American soldiers have been sleeping at the school in Miranshah in North Waziristan as they carry out their mission alongside Pakistani forces.
The BBC`s correspondent in Islamabad, Susannah Price, says Pakistani tribesman have vowed to continue their campaign against American military personnel who enter the border areas.
Timed device
The attack took place at 2225 (1625 GMT) on Friday and a second rocket, with a timing device set to go off at 0225 on Saturday, was found, the local official said.
The US personnel had earlier watched a traditional Katthak dance on the lawn of a nearby fort.
The first rocket hit a sports complex about 200 metres from the school and the second device was defused by security forces.
It had been denied that US forces were in the area
The rocket used in the attack on the building on 1 May also missed its target and caused no casualties.
US-led coalition forces are combing the area along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border in the hunt for al-Qaeda and Taleban members who might have slipped across the border.
Pakistan says a small number of US troops are helping its forces in ``communications and intelligence gathering`` in the tribal areas.
But their arrival in an area usually off limits even to the Pakistani army has provoked anger amongst the local tribesmen.
Vow to fight
Tribal elders and religious leaders say a joint team of Pakistani and American troops raided a madrasa, or religious school, last month - a move which sparked fury.
During a meeting armed volunteers from various tribes said they would fight anyone who attempted to enter their religious schools.
Until recently Pakistan`s authorities had denied that US troops were operating in the region.
Pakistan`s President Pervez Musharraf said co-operation with the Americans was restricted to fighting on the other side of the border and some US personnel in Pakistan involved in communications.
This is an extremely sensitive subject for President Musharraf. He offered the American-led coalition full co-operation following the events of 11 September.
But even allowing the Americans to use Pakistani air bases to launch search-and-rescue operations led to demonstrations.
This is Pakistani muslim People ----not the puppets with alien accents.
__________________________________________________
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1981000/1981640.stm
Pakistan rocket attack on US troops
The local residents are furious about the presence of US troops
A rocket has been fired at a vocational school in Pakistan where US special forces were believed to be staying as they continue their search for al-Qaeda and Taleban fighters, a local official said.
The rocket missed its target and no-one was hurt, but it was the second time in two weeks that the building in the semi-autonomous tribal region near the Afghan border has come under rocket attack.
Seven American soldiers have been sleeping at the school in Miranshah in North Waziristan as they carry out their mission alongside Pakistani forces.
The BBC`s correspondent in Islamabad, Susannah Price, says Pakistani tribesman have vowed to continue their campaign against American military personnel who enter the border areas.
Timed device
The attack took place at 2225 (1625 GMT) on Friday and a second rocket, with a timing device set to go off at 0225 on Saturday, was found, the local official said.
The US personnel had earlier watched a traditional Katthak dance on the lawn of a nearby fort.
The first rocket hit a sports complex about 200 metres from the school and the second device was defused by security forces.
It had been denied that US forces were in the area
The rocket used in the attack on the building on 1 May also missed its target and caused no casualties.
US-led coalition forces are combing the area along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border in the hunt for al-Qaeda and Taleban members who might have slipped across the border.
Pakistan says a small number of US troops are helping its forces in ``communications and intelligence gathering`` in the tribal areas.
But their arrival in an area usually off limits even to the Pakistani army has provoked anger amongst the local tribesmen.
Vow to fight
Tribal elders and religious leaders say a joint team of Pakistani and American troops raided a madrasa, or religious school, last month - a move which sparked fury.
During a meeting armed volunteers from various tribes said they would fight anyone who attempted to enter their religious schools.
Until recently Pakistan`s authorities had denied that US troops were operating in the region.
Pakistan`s President Pervez Musharraf said co-operation with the Americans was restricted to fighting on the other side of the border and some US personnel in Pakistan involved in communications.
This is an extremely sensitive subject for President Musharraf. He offered the American-led coalition full co-operation following the events of 11 September.
But even allowing the Americans to use Pakistani air bases to launch search-and-rescue operations led to demonstrations.
#9 Posted by progressive on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
If you are convinced of the lies of US govt & media THEN this will be an eyeopener.DO not miss it to read it in its entirety.
Forewarned is forearmed! Be Prepared.The future of your generation is at stake here.
__________________________________________________
THE STORY OF THE CENTURY
– and the effort to derail it
This headline should set your alarm bells ringing: ``Inquiry of Intelligence Failures Hits Obstacles.`` The effort to ferret out the truth from government officials is, predictably, like pulling teeth. But, in this case, the natural bureaucratic resistance to oversight is augmented by the reluctance of our legislators to probe too deeply. The much-vaunted congressional investigation of the 9/11 intelligence meltdown was defanged from the beginning, and merely provided a platform for CIA chief George Tenet to absolve himself and his agency of any responsibility, basically saying: Hey, it could`ve happened to anybody!
THE BIG QUESTION
Although that has got to be one very unsurprising headline – gee, you mean US government employees are obstructing an investigation into their incompetence? – the implications are really much more ominous than a bunch of self-serving fools covering their own asses. For what it means is that we will never unravel the mystery surrounding the genesis of this perpetual ``war on terrorism.``
For the big question of the post-9/11 era has so far gone unanswered. After the expenditure of multi-billions of tax dollars for ``anti-terrorist`` programs, how is it that a terrorist network could exist in this country over a stretch of years – perhaps longer than five years – and remain completely unknown to US law enforcement and intelligence agencies? After all those ``anti-terrorist task forces,`` studies, warnings, premonitions – remember the Great Terrorist Scare of New Year`s 2000? – you mean to tell me they missed it completely?
Oh sure, there`s that guff about the famous ``20th hijacker,`` the pursuit of whom had them supposedly hot on the trail of Mohammed Atta & Co., but, tragically, too late. This................continued.
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.html
Forewarned is forearmed! Be Prepared.The future of your generation is at stake here.
__________________________________________________
THE STORY OF THE CENTURY
– and the effort to derail it
This headline should set your alarm bells ringing: ``Inquiry of Intelligence Failures Hits Obstacles.`` The effort to ferret out the truth from government officials is, predictably, like pulling teeth. But, in this case, the natural bureaucratic resistance to oversight is augmented by the reluctance of our legislators to probe too deeply. The much-vaunted congressional investigation of the 9/11 intelligence meltdown was defanged from the beginning, and merely provided a platform for CIA chief George Tenet to absolve himself and his agency of any responsibility, basically saying: Hey, it could`ve happened to anybody!
THE BIG QUESTION
Although that has got to be one very unsurprising headline – gee, you mean US government employees are obstructing an investigation into their incompetence? – the implications are really much more ominous than a bunch of self-serving fools covering their own asses. For what it means is that we will never unravel the mystery surrounding the genesis of this perpetual ``war on terrorism.``
For the big question of the post-9/11 era has so far gone unanswered. After the expenditure of multi-billions of tax dollars for ``anti-terrorist`` programs, how is it that a terrorist network could exist in this country over a stretch of years – perhaps longer than five years – and remain completely unknown to US law enforcement and intelligence agencies? After all those ``anti-terrorist task forces,`` studies, warnings, premonitions – remember the Great Terrorist Scare of New Year`s 2000? – you mean to tell me they missed it completely?
Oh sure, there`s that guff about the famous ``20th hijacker,`` the pursuit of whom had them supposedly hot on the trail of Mohammed Atta & Co., but, tragically, too late. This................continued.
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.html
#10 Posted by Layman on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
I dont know much about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but admire the Israelis a lot, for their strong showing despite being in a bad neighbourhood, where their very survival is at stake. Also worthy of respect is strongman Ariel Sharon who is carrying on braving intense world pressure.
The Israelis are dependent on American aid (about 5 billion USD per year?) but have developed on economic and scientifc fronts. Saudi Arabia and other oil nations have the money but have not developed otherwise and stand nowhere with respect to Israel in military capability.
The Israelis are dependent on American aid (about 5 billion USD per year?) but have developed on economic and scientifc fronts. Saudi Arabia and other oil nations have the money but have not developed otherwise and stand nowhere with respect to Israel in military capability.
#11 Posted by Viking on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
Feroz, I never thought anybody could post such a long article on israel-palestine conflict without a single mention of Yasser Arafat! is that an insinuation that he doesn`t count in the scheme of things ??
#12 Posted by Romair on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
``Out of the total of some 35 odd hijackers, who piloted their planes into the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon, in Washington, D.C. in September 2001, 19 were Saudi Arabians.``
I thought the total number of hijackers was 19, and 14 were Saudis.
``Also, what is even alarming as far Israel is concerned is that it losing what ever moral superiority it once had as a secular democratic nation in a sea of Middle Eastern theocratic autocracies.``
Was Israel established as a secular state? It is specifically a Jewish state. Jews have far more legally defined rights in terms of migration, visas, land ownership, voting etc. than people of any other religion. This makes it one of the most non-secular democratic states in the world. Iraq is more secular than Israel. The PLO is far more secular than Israel. The Vice President of Iraq is a Christian named George Tariq Aziz, and many of the senior members of the PLO are Christians (like Hannan Ashrawi). Correct me if I am wrong, but I cannot imagine the Vice President of Israel ever being anything but a Jew.
Infact, the whole reason the Israeli govt. hasn`t historically accepted the Palestenians as citizens of a joint Jewish-Christian-Muslim state is because it would ruin the religious demographics of a pre-dominantly Jewish Israel.
The key country in the Middle East politics is Saudi Arabia. If an Iranian revolution type event occurs in Saudi Arabia, a clash of civilization type scenario could potentially occur, in the world. If Saudi Arabia were to have a people`s revolution, and kick out the ruling family, it would make Khomeini`s revolution in a much more liberal and sophisticated Iran look like a coffee party. A people`s revolution in Saudi Arabia would turn the US Middle East policy on its head.
I am not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe Saudi Arabia has 26% of the world`s known oil reserves. Iraq and the surrounding areas have around 10%. The US needs Saudi Arabia to keep the world oil price stable, i.e. if some state stops oil production, Saudi Arabia conveniently increases its production.
Iraq is already anti-US. Iran is anti-US (or US is anti-Iran; same thing). In Egypt, the religious political parties win all the syndicate democratic elections, and thus regularly get banned by the autocratic pro-West govt. In Algeria, the Islamic parties outright won the national election, and were banned. Even in Turkey, the religious party Rafah won the highest no. of seats in the national elections, and was afterwards banned by the, ``secular`` Turkish govt. Kuwaitis do not like the US, either. 70% of Jordanians, including their young queen, are Palestenians or of Palestenian descent.
So, while it is debatable whether the Arabs like or dislike the Palestinians, it is certainly not debatable that they hate Israel and the USA. Whether they are correct or incorrect in this hatred is a different debate, but the hate exists. Through fate, 11 out of the 12 members of OPEC are Muslim states, and 9 out those 11 are Arab (Indonesia and Iran are the other two). Even the Central Asian oil, which the US desparately needs to off-set the influence of OPEC oil, falls under the control of Muslim states. God may not have given Muslims much brains (speically to the Arabs), but He apparently did give Muslims a lot of oil.
I remember hearing somewhere, that OBL had said that the price of world oil should not be $30/barrell but over $300/barrell. As long as the Saudis are there to pump out oil, anytime any other country gets wierd ideas about oil prices, the US and the West are fine (since Saudis on their own are big enough producers to off-set the oil price). However, if Saudi Arabia goes the way of maulvi at a political level, well then, that is where the fun starts. The UAEs and Bahrains of the Middle East will go the same way, since they are too small to not be effected.
This will mean that most of the religious societies in the Middle East (Saudi, Iran, Egypt, Algeria etc.) along with the secular govts. (Iraq, Syria etc.) and the confused govts. (Jordan, Turkey etc.) could potentially all be in simultaneous control of an anti-US and anti-Israel leadership (Turkey and Jordan probably would be half and half). With the extremely conservative Saudis in their political club finally, they could raise the price of oil to unknown figures (for those who see the $300/barrell as odd, remember oil was $3/barrell before King Faisal`s oil embargo three decades ago).
What happens then?
The US govt. is, correctly or incorrectly, so firmly in the control of the pro-Israeli lobby, that, no US political party can ever form the govt. if it goes against Israel, even when Israel is completely wrong. What will the US do if the Saudi royal family gets removed through a people`s revolution. For those who think this can never occur, keep in mind that the CIA gave statements weeks before the Shah was toppled that a revolution could never occur (that is why the US workers got caught in the embassy).
Personally speaking, I don`t like Israelis or Arabs. Not because I am a racist. I don`t like Israelis because of the way they treat the Arabs, and I don`t like Arabs because of the way they treat Pakistanis.
I thought the total number of hijackers was 19, and 14 were Saudis.
``Also, what is even alarming as far Israel is concerned is that it losing what ever moral superiority it once had as a secular democratic nation in a sea of Middle Eastern theocratic autocracies.``
Was Israel established as a secular state? It is specifically a Jewish state. Jews have far more legally defined rights in terms of migration, visas, land ownership, voting etc. than people of any other religion. This makes it one of the most non-secular democratic states in the world. Iraq is more secular than Israel. The PLO is far more secular than Israel. The Vice President of Iraq is a Christian named George Tariq Aziz, and many of the senior members of the PLO are Christians (like Hannan Ashrawi). Correct me if I am wrong, but I cannot imagine the Vice President of Israel ever being anything but a Jew.
Infact, the whole reason the Israeli govt. hasn`t historically accepted the Palestenians as citizens of a joint Jewish-Christian-Muslim state is because it would ruin the religious demographics of a pre-dominantly Jewish Israel.
The key country in the Middle East politics is Saudi Arabia. If an Iranian revolution type event occurs in Saudi Arabia, a clash of civilization type scenario could potentially occur, in the world. If Saudi Arabia were to have a people`s revolution, and kick out the ruling family, it would make Khomeini`s revolution in a much more liberal and sophisticated Iran look like a coffee party. A people`s revolution in Saudi Arabia would turn the US Middle East policy on its head.
I am not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe Saudi Arabia has 26% of the world`s known oil reserves. Iraq and the surrounding areas have around 10%. The US needs Saudi Arabia to keep the world oil price stable, i.e. if some state stops oil production, Saudi Arabia conveniently increases its production.
Iraq is already anti-US. Iran is anti-US (or US is anti-Iran; same thing). In Egypt, the religious political parties win all the syndicate democratic elections, and thus regularly get banned by the autocratic pro-West govt. In Algeria, the Islamic parties outright won the national election, and were banned. Even in Turkey, the religious party Rafah won the highest no. of seats in the national elections, and was afterwards banned by the, ``secular`` Turkish govt. Kuwaitis do not like the US, either. 70% of Jordanians, including their young queen, are Palestenians or of Palestenian descent.
So, while it is debatable whether the Arabs like or dislike the Palestinians, it is certainly not debatable that they hate Israel and the USA. Whether they are correct or incorrect in this hatred is a different debate, but the hate exists. Through fate, 11 out of the 12 members of OPEC are Muslim states, and 9 out those 11 are Arab (Indonesia and Iran are the other two). Even the Central Asian oil, which the US desparately needs to off-set the influence of OPEC oil, falls under the control of Muslim states. God may not have given Muslims much brains (speically to the Arabs), but He apparently did give Muslims a lot of oil.
I remember hearing somewhere, that OBL had said that the price of world oil should not be $30/barrell but over $300/barrell. As long as the Saudis are there to pump out oil, anytime any other country gets wierd ideas about oil prices, the US and the West are fine (since Saudis on their own are big enough producers to off-set the oil price). However, if Saudi Arabia goes the way of maulvi at a political level, well then, that is where the fun starts. The UAEs and Bahrains of the Middle East will go the same way, since they are too small to not be effected.
This will mean that most of the religious societies in the Middle East (Saudi, Iran, Egypt, Algeria etc.) along with the secular govts. (Iraq, Syria etc.) and the confused govts. (Jordan, Turkey etc.) could potentially all be in simultaneous control of an anti-US and anti-Israel leadership (Turkey and Jordan probably would be half and half). With the extremely conservative Saudis in their political club finally, they could raise the price of oil to unknown figures (for those who see the $300/barrell as odd, remember oil was $3/barrell before King Faisal`s oil embargo three decades ago).
What happens then?
The US govt. is, correctly or incorrectly, so firmly in the control of the pro-Israeli lobby, that, no US political party can ever form the govt. if it goes against Israel, even when Israel is completely wrong. What will the US do if the Saudi royal family gets removed through a people`s revolution. For those who think this can never occur, keep in mind that the CIA gave statements weeks before the Shah was toppled that a revolution could never occur (that is why the US workers got caught in the embassy).
Personally speaking, I don`t like Israelis or Arabs. Not because I am a racist. I don`t like Israelis because of the way they treat the Arabs, and I don`t like Arabs because of the way they treat Pakistanis.
#13 Posted by nasah on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
A Zionist B#stard against another Zionist B#stard
Now another Likud Nazi is trying to outnazify even the greatest Zionist Nazi -- Shar#n the Moron.
bb netanyahoo says no Palestinian state -- an entity which even Sh#ron the Moron says -- IS inevitable.
Little does -- the yesterday`s embezzler Yahoo -- realize -- that today out of government -- he can urinate in Sh#ron`s already smelly soup as much as he wants to.
But -- tomorrow in government -- that subsidized (with MY tax dollars) b#stard -- WILL HAVE to drink his own sh#t at the negotiation table -- at the behest of his Pay Masters in Washington.
An independent State of Palestine is as inevitable as the independent State of Israel.
Now another Likud Nazi is trying to outnazify even the greatest Zionist Nazi -- Shar#n the Moron.
bb netanyahoo says no Palestinian state -- an entity which even Sh#ron the Moron says -- IS inevitable.
Little does -- the yesterday`s embezzler Yahoo -- realize -- that today out of government -- he can urinate in Sh#ron`s already smelly soup as much as he wants to.
But -- tomorrow in government -- that subsidized (with MY tax dollars) b#stard -- WILL HAVE to drink his own sh#t at the negotiation table -- at the behest of his Pay Masters in Washington.
An independent State of Palestine is as inevitable as the independent State of Israel.
#14 Posted by tahmed321 on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
For the Chowk military strategists: ``France provide naval infrastructure - the Agosta-90Bs, but also some of its more sophisticated Exocet missiles - to Pakistan, giving it a strategic naval advantage in the Indian Ocean over archrival India, all the while providing India with a definitive air superiority through delivery of the Mirage-2000. `` (Dawn).
So the military in India and Pakistan moves around in jets and subs and plans strategic stuff. Meanwhile, Ram Chander in Delhi and Abdul Haq in Rawalpindi both commutes to their respective office on street corners in Delhi and in Rawalpindi on knees and elbows. They would no doubt be very pleased to learn about the lengths their governments are going to ensure their security. And the kindly French armorers spare no pain to outfit the two militaries with nothing but the best.
PS: Chowk military strategists to please not bother to inform me that in fact much of their military is domestically made and so forth. Tell that to Ram Chander and Abdul Haq as you drop spare change in their begging bowls, and no doubt they will be so pleased they will tell their growling stomachs to be quiet.
So the military in India and Pakistan moves around in jets and subs and plans strategic stuff. Meanwhile, Ram Chander in Delhi and Abdul Haq in Rawalpindi both commutes to their respective office on street corners in Delhi and in Rawalpindi on knees and elbows. They would no doubt be very pleased to learn about the lengths their governments are going to ensure their security. And the kindly French armorers spare no pain to outfit the two militaries with nothing but the best.
PS: Chowk military strategists to please not bother to inform me that in fact much of their military is domestically made and so forth. Tell that to Ram Chander and Abdul Haq as you drop spare change in their begging bowls, and no doubt they will be so pleased they will tell their growling stomachs to be quiet.
#15 Posted by tahmed321 on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
Coming to the subject of this article: It is a pity the israelis and arabs cant get along. But why should I care?? There is enough injustice and misery within Pakistan that does not make it to the news headlines and into international diplomacy as it is for me to worry about people (including palestinians) who dont have to worry about mundane things like the next meal or a chance for proper schooling that millions of children in Pakistan have to worry about every day.
#16 Posted by zeemax on May 13, 2002 12:41:16 pm
Dear FR Khan,
An exhaustive recounting of political progression of the Middle East problem, however something is amiss here.
I think what`s missing is the basic point i.e. who does the land belong to? One can`t offer land for peace if it doesn`t belong to them in the first place.
Also, a few clarifications required. You say:
1)`` Out of the total of some 35 odd hijackers, who piloted their planes into the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon, in Washington, D.C. in September 2001, 19 were Saudi Arabians.``
Huh? I thought the total was 19 and 11 were Saudis, unless you have access to further info.
2)``Another reason for the Arab apathy towards the plight of the Palestinians is that majority of the Arab governments in the region have no political affinity for the Palestinians``.
This is totally incorrect as you know West Bank was part of Trans-Jordan of the British Mandate till the partition of 1948. Jordan gave up the claim on the land, for Palestinians. Next, Gaza was a part of Egypt till Israel occupied it in 1967. Egypt also does not lay a claim to Gaza because of the Palestinians. What more do you want them to do? Both countries let the Palestinainas take that land for their home. The diplomatic exigencies of the Arab States must be understood in not opposing USA outright and that`s the reality on the ground. Hamas understands that and say they know the limitations of their brothers, However, it`s not too long before these limitations will be removed. It`s only a question of time.
3)``Palestinian suicide attacks on the Israelis can never be justified as morally correct, no matter what the political provocation.``
The Palestinian suicide attacks are morally correct and those kids are `Shaheed` for all knowing Muslims who believe in Qura`an. Qura`an clearly says `Slay them who drove you out from your homes. But do not transgress. If they fight you, then fight them; but if they stop fighting do not slay them.`
The above means Israeli civilians are a legitimate target. They built homes on Palestinian land and drove two generations out to camps. The targeting of Israeli civilians is thus legitimate as well as in keeping with Qura`an`s teachings.
Tell me, would you even blow up your little finger if you weren`t convinced it was the right thing to do? Strangely, the Fox News channel in your adopted country (I assume) says they do it for $25,000 of Iraqi compensation. I have never seen such callousness in my whole life.
The first intifada was with stones and now it`s with the kids` bodies. Who knows what the next Intifada will be? Only when Israelis stop fighting will peace come, in a Palestinian State which includes the whole of the land which is currently Israel. Only then the Palestinians will stop slaying the Israelis, military or civilian, and it`s completely justified in the definition of Jihad.
About the sob story of how much the Jews suffered during the holocaust, I only say that they should have been given land in Canada or Australia by the perpetrators of the holocaust who were all powerful and still are. Why place them in the middle of the Arab lands freshly vacated by the British? It was a historic crime against both the Arabs as well as the Jews and must be corrected. Jews will never have a home if they don`t chose to live in the Arab/Palestinian State as they had done since Caliph Omar`s time under Muslim Rule. Yasser Arafat said today `they`re our cousins` obviously referring to Hazrat Ismail and Hazrat Ishaq (Isaac), but no one understands that statement because no one contemplates that distant a history. No one reads Qura`an, or even Bible for that matter.
Much more my friend but when you talk about Palestine, it touches a lot of raw nerves; and do be accurate of your facts. You`re talking about Abraham`s land, the holy land.
Rgds
Zeemax
An exhaustive recounting of political progression of the Middle East problem, however something is amiss here.
I think what`s missing is the basic point i.e. who does the land belong to? One can`t offer land for peace if it doesn`t belong to them in the first place.
Also, a few clarifications required. You say:
1)`` Out of the total of some 35 odd hijackers, who piloted their planes into the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon, in Washington, D.C. in September 2001, 19 were Saudi Arabians.``
Huh? I thought the total was 19 and 11 were Saudis, unless you have access to further info.
2)``Another reason for the Arab apathy towards the plight of the Palestinians is that majority of the Arab governments in the region have no political affinity for the Palestinians``.
This is totally incorrect as you know West Bank was part of Trans-Jordan of the British Mandate till the partition of 1948. Jordan gave up the claim on the land, for Palestinians. Next, Gaza was a part of Egypt till Israel occupied it in 1967. Egypt also does not lay a claim to Gaza because of the Palestinians. What more do you want them to do? Both countries let the Palestinainas take that land for their home. The diplomatic exigencies of the Arab States must be understood in not opposing USA outright and that`s the reality on the ground. Hamas understands that and say they know the limitations of their brothers, However, it`s not too long before these limitations will be removed. It`s only a question of time.
3)``Palestinian suicide attacks on the Israelis can never be justified as morally correct, no matter what the political provocation.``
The Palestinian suicide attacks are morally correct and those kids are `Shaheed` for all knowing Muslims who believe in Qura`an. Qura`an clearly says `Slay them who drove you out from your homes. But do not transgress. If they fight you, then fight them; but if they stop fighting do not slay them.`
The above means Israeli civilians are a legitimate target. They built homes on Palestinian land and drove two generations out to camps. The targeting of Israeli civilians is thus legitimate as well as in keeping with Qura`an`s teachings.
Tell me, would you even blow up your little finger if you weren`t convinced it was the right thing to do? Strangely, the Fox News channel in your adopted country (I assume) says they do it for $25,000 of Iraqi compensation. I have never seen such callousness in my whole life.
The first intifada was with stones and now it`s with the kids` bodies. Who knows what the next Intifada will be? Only when Israelis stop fighting will peace come, in a Palestinian State which includes the whole of the land which is currently Israel. Only then the Palestinians will stop slaying the Israelis, military or civilian, and it`s completely justified in the definition of Jihad.
About the sob story of how much the Jews suffered during the holocaust, I only say that they should have been given land in Canada or Australia by the perpetrators of the holocaust who were all powerful and still are. Why place them in the middle of the Arab lands freshly vacated by the British? It was a historic crime against both the Arabs as well as the Jews and must be corrected. Jews will never have a home if they don`t chose to live in the Arab/Palestinian State as they had done since Caliph Omar`s time under Muslim Rule. Yasser Arafat said today `they`re our cousins` obviously referring to Hazrat Ismail and Hazrat Ishaq (Isaac), but no one understands that statement because no one contemplates that distant a history. No one reads Qura`an, or even Bible for that matter.
Much more my friend but when you talk about Palestine, it touches a lot of raw nerves; and do be accurate of your facts. You`re talking about Abraham`s land, the holy land.
Rgds
Zeemax
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