Lighting The Nuclear Fire

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Romair,

{{ First of all, I will thank God (or Bhagwan) tonight, that you are no longer proposing your, ``hool`` theories :). Those theories have just about landed us in a nuclear war.}}

Just for the record, pal, I`m no longer proposing the hool theory because I`m pissed at the frikking BJP (as I`ve always been).. ``hool`` works once or twice, after that even a dumb ass like Mushy realises its only ``hool`` & then he gives ``hool`` like ``test firing`` missiles:)

But as long as there is no ``hot`` war & Mushy is getting his ass chewed behind the scenes by the 300 lb Armitage, the hool theory is valid. Just because YOU pooh pooh it, doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Yeah, agreed, ``hool`` is immature when nuclear weapons are involved, but who said India or Pakistan were mature?!

It doesnt take a genious to figure it out. The WHOLE world is telling India & Pakistan to talk. What is Vaju doing? Acting like a little baby & even avoids making eye contact with Mushy--Jeeze, you`d think his eyes would fall off if he did!:)

I CANT understand why the world isnt telling India (publicly) to cut the crap! Dont you think thats a little strange? Dont you think its a little strange that Pakistan sounds so magnanimous & mature publicly & India acts so intransigent & YET, its Pakistan that is being squeezed & scolded? SOMETHING is NOT right with this picture!

We dont know what is happening behind the scenes. The BIG powers know something that we ordinary people DONT know. My ``theory``...yeah..go ahead & laugh..is that Mushy has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar! Otherwise, pray tell me WHY is this going all topsy-turvy? Why has NO country publicly trashed India for its poor human rights record in Kashmir?!

Let me present this logically from the ``American`` point of view:

1) Bush NEEDS Mushy more than anything else to fight his war against Al-Qeeda. So, logically, he would HATE to antagonise him.

2)Obviously, if Bush had any meaningful reason to tilt towards Pakistan he would. American interests (esp for Republicans) are more important than anything else. Why in the world should Bush fear India? All that Bush could do is

a) Highlight India`s human right abuses in Kashmir & Gujerat & treat the BJP like America treated Milosovic

b)Call the Kashmiri freedom struggle legitimate & rally the OIC & tell hem that contrary to what they feel, the US DOES care about how muslims are treated in the rest of the world...Hey its a WIN-WIN situation for America!

What the HELL can India do? Have a tantrum?! There`s no ``hindu `` lobby in the US-not yet, at least. They dont have a sugar daddy Soviet Union to go to anymore! Are they going to threaten the US that they will sell the bomb to Saddam?! Get REAL!!

So WHY is it not happening?! Anybody got any guesses? If I summarize all the ``official`` statements of world leaders, big & small..this is what they are saying:

India & Pakistan--Please talk to each other, dont go to war. In response, Pakistan says, we are ready & willing to talk, without any condition. India says, no talks, no third party mediation, we will wait & see.

What does the world do? tell Mushy ``you better see to it there is no more cross border terrorism``!

What does the world tell India? ``we understand your frustration, please be a little more patient!``

HUH?!! YEH KYA JADOO HAI?! Who is being scolded & who is being pacified?!

Romair,

Either we Hindians are magicians or your Pakistani diplomats are bloody USELESS:) or MAYBE.. MUSHY is a SOB muffka who has been caught redhanded by the US intelligence agencies. If you read in between the lines, there has been a perceptible souring between Bush & Mush in the last month or so because Bush has realised that Mush has been jerking him off since that famous Jan speech.

Mush made a big show in that speech about a ``strategic U turn``. He arrested the ``terrorists`` & then released them after giving their organisations new names. He supposedly froze their bank accounts after they conveniently emptied them. He reopened the training camps & then, with a straight face, says that there is no cross border terrorism!

Who the F is he trying to kid?! I mean, does he think that the rest of the world is THAT stupid?

Therein lies the problem, Romair. Your world famous military`s tactics have RUINED it for the Kashmiris! This war of a 1000 cuts has basta *dised their cause! This is NOT the 80`s anymore! The mujahadeen may have been ``freedom fighters`` in the eyes of Ronald Reagan. But the world has CHANGED, since then. Use some common sense & ACCEPT IT, no matter how hypocritical it may be! Those same mujahadeen are murderous terrorists now..indigenous or not..doesnt mean a DAMN thing anymore..when are you guys going to get it?!

Also, maybe YOU think that the ISI is small potatoes. If it is, then Mushy is a dangerous man. If it isnt, then Pakistan is an anarchy..take your pick!

Seems to me that Mushy`s (& your) line of thinking is that if the Kashmir issue is sufficiently internationalised, by this war of a 1000 cuts, India will be forced to accept third party mediation. If there is a third party mediation, Kashmir will be free because Pakistan`s case is overwhelmingly strong from a moral & legal standponit. Hence, keep the war of a 1000 cuts going.

You underestimate the coyotes. This isnt a Vietnam for Indians.

{{Let`s wait and see how long it takes before someobody from India starts their criticism of the partition again.}}

Aw, give it up pal:) It happened 50+ yrs ago. Those idiotic Indians get cheap thrills in baiting that jerk ylh & his tirades about Jinnah & Gandhi. All bs verbal masterbation.

Think about it. In these 50+ years, you Pakistanis can barely govern your own country, how the bloody hell do you expect India to govern it?! Just get over this damn delusion that India is chomping at the bits to grab Pakistan--OK?! Its just your military`s propaganda to keep it in business (India`s military has profitted handsomely from that crap too).

Would Indians like to dream about kicking your ass once in a while? damn right! I`m sure you guys get those same sweet dreams about kicking our asses too:)

{{``Has NOBODY in the world other than Pakistanis read the AI reports on the internet``

Unfortunately, not too many people have read these reports. It is because no one cared about this issue.}} That is why your, ``Whoppee`` theory is incorrect. Now that it has been internationalized, hopefully decent human beings will start taking interest and read up on it.}}

GET REAL!! You mean to tell me none of the world leaders have read it?! I`m sure every single Pakistani diplomat has dutifully handed out photocopies of AI reports on Kashmir, with gruesome glossy color photographs of masscared & raped victims, especially to Muslim countries & especially in OIC conferences.

Pakistani Embassy hasnt organised any ``Human Rights Conferences`` in Muslim countries with full blown collages of crying , hungry Kashmri children-orphans & pamphlets of Kashmiri muslim women gang-raped by marauding hindu soldiers?!

If they havent, they should be SACKED!! What the F are those guys getting paid for?! Jesus Christ, Pakistani diplomats sit side by side with all those powerful Saudi, Kuwati & UAE princes & break bread with them, lick their feet, their butts.

While they are busy doing that..dont they, take some time from their heavy ass licking & say ``O Saudi Lords & Masters..could you ..spare a moment or two..in your infinitely precious time...& take a look at these photograhs & see what these horrible hindoos are doing to these poor muslim bretheren & sisteren of the ummah...why do you..O great & noble race of human beings..employ these hindus by the thousands..export oil to them...import stuff from them that you can buy from Pakistan anyways..afterall we Pakistanis have done for you & your bretheren Palestinians..``

{{Actually, I always answer this question, whenever you ask it. I will answer it again. Muslim countries do give a sh//t about Pakistan, but only when it is in their interest (you should have seen the celebrations in Arab countries after Pakistan`s nuclear explosions). Also, they don`t want to piss off India either. It doesn`t make sense for them to sour their relations with India for Pakistan`s sake. They do however, in principle, believe in self-determination for Kashmiris.}}

Hahaha!! My God! Pakistanis are GREAT when it comes to standing up to Indians. But when it comes to standing up to Arabs, your above paragraph is absolutely pathetic:) Why in God`s name should they not want to piss the Indians off?! What the HELL does India have that they cant get from any other country?!

I think Pakistanis should introspect on this issue:

Pakistan is more than willing to accept hegemony (read crap) from any other country like Saudi Arabia & US. But when it comes to India, it will eat grass rather than give in. Then they accuse INDIANS of being obssessed about POakistan!

It is best we arm the politicians on both sides, take them to `no-mans` land and let them blast themselves out of existence.

High time people on both sides learn to respect each other and to live together.

Their behaviour and belliernce is nothing short of being termed disgraceful, and is as bad as two school children at a fight.

Romair

[…I would encourage all Pakistanis to say a few extra prayers for the BJP remaining in power in India. As long as the BJP is in power in India…India is doomed. India will self-destruct…]

- What happened in Gujarat was a catastrophe not only in general terms for humanity and India but for the whole of South Asia. I have noticed in the past from a minority of Pakistanis a tendency for their concerns for the plight of minorities in India to shade into exploitative glee at capital that can be made from that pain. It reveals quite a sinister mindset and the truth is, I think you are actually salivating at the prospect. If you really cared for Indian Muslims at all you would not wish that, not even in jest.

It does make your motives clear though.

-h-

funnnneeee

www.thefridaytimes.com

Ittefaqnama

I am very disturb about this Indo-Pak war-shar. God forbid, what will happen, hain ji? After all, we are still having considerable amount of property there. To prevent war, I am writing latter to Vajpayee Saab (mind it that it is poem because Vajpayee Saab is himself poet). Title of poem is “Kya tum dono pagal ho?”. Here is it:

KYA TUM DONO PAGAL HO?

“Bahaar ayee, siri payee,

Vajpayee, Vajpayee

Jang is junk, peace is flowers

What you are doing with your powers?

Safe them all, crores of humans

Coriander, haldi and cumins

I am putting in kofta curry

Dear people, do not worry

This is what leaders do

Take punga then sit on loo

The world is saying

There will be great slaying

If something happens

And patience snappens

What a devastating blow

Kay tum dono pagal ho?

Think of beauties of this land

Taj, Shalamar,

Trunk Road Grand

Also Reema, Saima and Kajol

Aishwarya, Madhuri and all

Imagine if there is nuclear war

(Oh my sister Balwant Kaur)

All the precious things will go

Kya tum dono pagal ho?

Do you think Musharraf could

Drop a bomb on Bollywood?

I am knowing he is who

I don’t think he can do.

Vajpayee, you came to Lahore

What points you will score

If city is leveled, people killed

Blood on your hands,

life stilled

In this game

Full of shame

There are no winners

Only sinners

Sad tamasha to world you show

Kya tum dono pagal ho?”

I kept writing till early morning. Your bhabi came and disturb me. “Who you are thinking you are? Shally? Kitts? Ghalab?” she yelled. Before I could finish poem, she snatched paper from me, saying “Hmmmmph! Leaf this non-sense and take me to break fast at Jeddah Sheraton”.

We went. In dining room, there was only two American couples. They were looking very loving. One hus band said to wife, “Can you please pass me the sugar, Sugar?” Your bhabi was very impressed. She gave me meaningful and dirty looks. Then the other hus band said to his wife, “Can you please pass me the honey, Honey?” Again your bhabi scowled at me. It is must to say something clever like that, I told myself. So I said to your bhabi: “Can you please pass me the tea, Bag?”

Make love, not war

NS

Dear Romair . . . you asked or stated . . .

````Here is my solution:

India holds a cricket match between Pakistan and India in Srinigar. Only Kashmiris are allowed to attend. Whichever side the crowd cheers for, ends up with Kashmir. Which side do you think the crowd would cheer for?````

Well, we have some conditions too, you know, just because you have American playing baseball in Changa Manga does not mean you forget that we are good in debates too . . . ok?

th4

a) The said cricket match should be held also in M`Bad. (Article 368)

b) Tickets as well as buses to and from venue as well as refreshments will have to be free. (Article 370)

c) The match shall be preceded by a Madhuri Dixit movie and followed by a Kajol movie. (Article in Stardust)

d) The match shall be held under tight security. (CNN article)

e) Mark Tully will be match umpire. (Pre 1947 article)

As for the answer, (marked in 2B pencil, as you can see) . . . even I know some Kashmiris and they told me that they will cheer whoever (a) pays them more and (b) sends more tourist honeymoon couples where the ghodaa walah can ride behind with the new bride.

As you can thus infer:-

a) on payment capacity, both of us our countries are broke.

b) on honeymoon couples, we got more, 10 times more than Arabs, right?

Got to go, I have to catch a plane to Srinagar . . .

http://www.markazdawa.org/englishweb/daily-news/200206/03/we_control_nuclear.htm

``We control two nuclear missiles`` Hafiz Muhammad Saeed

Islamabad, June 3: Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, Amir Jammat-ad Dawa today said that they have loyalists among the personnel who control two missiles with nuclear warheads. They shall be used against the enemies of Islam. He made this statement while in the custody of Islamabad Police. ..``


Prediction : a number of posters will now remember previous engagements.

shankar #407: First of all, I will thank God (or Bhagwan) tonight, that you are no longer proposing your, ``hool`` theories :). Those theories have just about landed us in a nuclear war.

Now onto your new(er) theories:

``Believe me , most Indians thank GOD you are NOT Indians, thank you very very much....No Indian, repeat NO Indian , is shedding any crocodile tears that Pakistan has broken off,``

You contradict yourself. First you say, ``most Indians,`` then you say, ``No Indian, repeat NO Indian.`` Is it most Indians, or is it NO Indian?

I hope what you say is true. It certainly wasn`t true earlier, at least not on this site. There were quite a few remarks from our Indian friends, on why the partition shouldn`t have taken place. And there was quite a bit of hatred against Jinnah. Although, that may have been due to his dress sense.

Let`s wait and see how long it takes before someobody from India starts their criticism of the partition again.

(sidenote: you have used the term, ``crocodile tears.`` Correct me if I am wrong, but I have a feeling you incorrectly used it in the context of heavy tears. Crocodile tears, according to www.dictionary.com implies, ``An insincere display of grief; false tears.``)

``that generation is senile or dead.``

Vajpayee and Advani belong to that generation, and are coordinating the current Indo-Pak stand-off. They aren`t dead, so are you suggesting they are senile?

``Secondly, Yes, Kashmir has been internationalised. Whooopee!!``

India spent 50 years trying to stop this issue from being internationalized. No UN, no mediators, no Amnesty International, no international media, no joint conferences, etc. was India`s stance. Why? Either India wasted its time, or your remarks (lets call them the, ``Whoopee`` theory) are off-target. I have a feeling the BJP leaders aren`t saying, ``Yes, Kashmir has been internationalised. Whooopee!!`` I have a feeling they think the whole affair is getting out of control, and that the international community is taking too much interest.

``Has NOBODY in the world other than Pakistanis read the AI reports on the internet``

Unfortunately, not too many people have read these reports. It is because no one cared about this issue. That is why your, ``Whoppee`` theory is incorrect. Now that it has been internationalized, hopefully decent human beings will start taking interest and read up on it. This is exactly why India did not want it to be internationalized.

``You know what? Its a rhetorical question OK!Because I`ve asked it a zillion times & NOBODY can answer it! WHY? Because EVERYONE knows that muslim countries dont give a S *IT about Pakistan says!``

Actually, I always answer this question, whenever you ask it. I will answer it again. Muslim countries do give a sh//t about Pakistan, but only when it is in their interest (you should have seen the celebrations in Arab countries after Pakistan`s nuclear explosions). Also, they don`t want to piss off India either. It doesn`t make sense for them to sour their relations with India for Pakistan`s sake. They do however, in principle, believe in self-determination for Kashmiris.

But, in any case, I don`t know why you use the Muslim countries as a criteria for anything, including judging India`s actions in Kashmir. You should use human rigthts as a criteria.

The Muslim countries didn`t say much after the Gujrat massacre either. Based on your logic of using the Muslim countries as a benchmark, the Gujrat massacre would also be a legitimate Indian act. So many Muslim countries, or at least their populations, consider OBL a hero, and Bush to be evil. So according to your logic, OBL is a great man.

``If you call these guys your ``friends``,``

I certainly don`t call these guys my friends. I only consider a few of them, like Iran, to be friends. I avoid Arab countries like the plague. I have ten times as many Indian friends (I am trying to motivate them to vote for the BJP) as I have Arab friends. I have repeatedly and openly written about my dislike for various Arab countries, and their racist attitudes towards Pakistanis (and towards Indians, and other South Asians).

``Heck even the Bosnians & Kosovars were given more sympathy!``

You are giving the Muslim countries too much credit. The Bosnians and Kosovars were not given much sympathy by Muslim countries. It was the US that eventually went in to save them, since in this scenario, human rights and US political interests coincided. Actually, no one knew what was going on in Kosovo, or where it was, until the US internationalized the issue (much like what is happening with Kashmir). I believe one of the few, if not the only Muslim country to send soldiers into Bosnia was Pakistan.

You seem obsessed with Muslim countries. I certainly am not obsessed with them. Infact I have openly stated that Pakistan should recognize Israel (like it has recognized India), and that the concept of Ummah in the current world is fake and unrealistic.

I look at Kashmir as a human rights issue. Not as a Muslim issue. If the Kashmiris were Hindus, and Pakistan were killing them, I would criticize Pakistan. I have criticized Pakistan, in issues where it was at fault, including in Bangladesh and Afghanistan. Unfortunately, there is a huge lack of Indians who are willing to uphold the same standard when the Indians are killing Kashmiris.

``Those ``freedom fighters`` have been linked to terrorists..case closed..its too late now...score one for those bjp coyotes.``

You are stretching it again. Only five organizations in Pakistan (out of which only three were in Kashmir, I believe) have been linked to terrorism by the US. And I believe none of the organizations which are indigenous to Indian Kashmir have been linked to terrorism. They are still recognized as freedom fighters, as are the organizations in Pakistan Kashmir. It is only the non-indigenous Kashmiri organizations that were scrutinized.

It is good to see that the BJP is enjoying such popularity in India. It is a good omen for Pakistan. The BJP is going to destroy India, single-handedly. Musharraf may seem like an idiot to Indians, but he is still quite popular in Pakistan (and mostly for the right reasons). The PPP and PML thugs have been crying like crazy to rally people against him, but no one in Pakistan is listening to them. He may not be great, but Mushy is the best we have got. I think India has quite a few people who are better than BJP, but I am glad the new found popularity of the BJP will not allow those Indian leaders to come up. Otherwise, those leaders would be able to handle the current issues much more efficiently, for India.

The Kashmir issue is finally getting the attention it deserves. The whole world is involved. Bush has stated that it is bilateral, to pacify India, but it should be obvious to you that Armitage, Powell, Straw, Putin etc. etc. are regularly talking to mediating between India and Pakistan. If it is bilateral, then what are they doing? If it looks like a psychiatrist, walks like a psychiatrists and quacks like a psychiatrist, then it is mediation. Wouldn`t you agree?

Please read the article by Henry Kissenger on this issue, for Washington Post (http://www.dawn.com/2002/06/06/op.htm).

``But the major nations have no reason to accept the counsel of despair that the momentum of events is beyond control, especially on an issue where their interests are so congruent and so engaged. Indeed, the tensions along the Line of Control are an almost a unique case of crisis calling for multilateral diplomacy. Russia will not look lightly on a radicalization of the Islamic world - this is why Russian President Vladimir Putin has been personally so active. China has a relationship with Pakistan stretching over a decade - partly as a counterweight in the Sino-Indian border disputes. Europe - especially Great Britain - has a historic interest in a peaceful evolution of the area.`` (Kissenger)

Please look for the term, ``multilateral diplomacy,`` in the above paragraph. Ex-Secretaries of State of the US never ever write about foreign policy issues in which the US govt. is actively and currently involved, without the permission and/or encouragement of the US President. I can bet you 2 Rupees and 50 cents that the White House encouraged Kissenger to write this, because just two or three months ago, I heard him say on TV that the US should not get involved in this issue. Apparently, the BJP`s war rhetoric has gotten the US involved now.

Rest assured, these people are not going to sit around and let Pakistan and India get into a nuclear war. They are going to put a long-lasting end to this issue. And the only practical long-lasting end is one that takes the wishes of the Kashmiris into account. And that is exactly why, the Kashmiris and Pakistanis are happy that these folks are getting involved, and the BJP is trying its best to keep them out. How long is Vajpayee going to keep turning down offers from Putin etc. to talk to Pakistan?

Pakistan has, more or less, done what the internaiotional community asked from it. Now this community is pressurising India to do the same. US and UK have suggested a joint US-UK monitoring of the LOC with 300 helicopters. As they say in Almaty, ``How do you like them apples?``

You should be happy that the Kashmir issue is finally getting internationalized and mediation is occuring. It will lead to better relations between India and Pakistan, not to mention the Kashmiris. There is no way India and Pakistan would have solved it on their own. One must thank the BJP, for its actions.

``Kashmiris are sick & tired of this war``

On a serious note, I wish Indians would stop trying to become the spokesperson for Kashimiris. It is sickening. If killing them isn`t enough, do Indians have to attempt to be their representatives, as well? Rest assured, Pakistanis are still a lot more popular with Kashmiris, than Indians are. If this wasn`t the case, then India would have held a vote there a long time ago. I should know, I am a Kashmiri.

Here is my solution:

India holds a cricket match between Pakistan and India in Srinigar. Only Kashmiris are allowed to attend. Whichever side the crowd cheers for, ends up with Kashmir. Which side do you think the crowd would cheer for?

Re: Romair #387

``...But Pakistan doesn`t blink...``

I think that Musharraf has proven to be yet another tactical genius, but a strategic moron in the short history of other such geniuses that have ridden high on the power of a gun to the top in Pakistan. I hope that your initial enthusiasm for him has not worn off -- if it has, you are stuck and out of luck. The man has just annointed himself president for another 5 years, with your vote!

This is Najam Sethi`s assessment:

``Until now, Pakistan has always set the pre-condition that the Kashmir dispute should figure prominently in any dialogue. Also, Pakistan has never accepted the charge of cross-border infiltration, let alone commit itself to ending it swiftly. Indeed, the Agra dialogue was jettisoned by General Musharraf when the Indians countered with the demand to stop “cross-border terrorism”. Now Pakistan has conceded both Indian points unilaterally but India refuses to de-escalate and begin talks.`` END QUOTE

The poor people of Pakistan, the Sindhi peasant, the Punjabi laborer are paying for the high-stakes game of Russian roulette that the Generalissmo has been playing.

As far as your wishing BJP on India is concerned -- do not shed tears for them. BJP is not India and India is not BJP. Those morons will have to face the electoral music in 2004. At least Indians will have the option of voting them in or out. You are stuck with the strategic genius in khakhi though, whose actions have directly contributed to tarnishing of Pakistan`s prestige at the cost of millions of ordinary, honorable individuals who continue to toil under the weight of a bloated war machine.

Romair:

If you are a patriotic Pakistani, then this, rather than the BJP, should make your blood boil:

QUOTE from The News

Unfortunately, missiles and bombs and tanks and planes do not solve the problems faced by the people. They only add to them. It is said that one reason why India is so aggressive is that our Air Force has not added new and effective planes to its arsenal for a long time. It is many years now but the last effective plane we were planning to buy was a Mirage 2000 E, at the paltry price of 80 million dollars a plane. If we had bought just forty, a minimum requirement, it would have cost us 3.2 billion dollars or 192 billion rupees. Let us put this in perspective. If one good school costs 5 million rupees, we can build thirty eight thousand four hundred centres of excellence with the same money. Or, if one very good hospital cost 50 million rupees, we can build 3,400 excellent medical centres in this amount. Economists call this opportunity cost. People should call it criminal neglect. They are denied good education or good health care because we have to buy expensive military toys.

We have been doing this for the last fifty-four years. Deferring people`s quality of life because security was paramount or we had strategic designs far greater than our capacity. We have condemned sixty three million people to live below the poverty line because we had `strategic compulsions` that made it necessary to allocate our meagre resources away from development to defence. It is sad that even after all these sacrifices we still do not have the means to stand up to threats

After all, our entire defence capability, and the material sacrifice made by the nation, was designed to deter Indian aggression. Why are we now unable to deter it? Why are we now giving up a deeply cherished policy just to avoid war?

I want to repeat again that I am not making the argument that we should go to war. We certainly should not. The only argument I am making is that what use is all the money that we have pumped into our national defence if we cannot stop an adversary from getting into a war-like posture. I am also sad that we are making these policy changes in a climate of aggression. We had an opportunity to do the same at Agra but we dug in our heels and then tried to earn praise for the great stand that we had taken for the Kashmir cause. Now just a year later and under coercion we are making the same change without dignity and without any quid pro quo

END QUOTE

http://jang.com.pk/thenews/jun2002-daily/07-06-2002/oped/o5.htm

Nice to know so many Pakistanis love Biharis that they do not want to nuke Bihar inspite of India begging them to do so. It will bring following benefits to India:

Robbery will decrease by 33 %

GDP will improve by 10 %

Less urine around

More food for rest of the Indians

Better Members of Parliament

Trains will not stop at Patna

Romair #387 You find a silver linings around mushroom clouds. Suppose there is a referendum in Kashmir and they vote overwhelmingly for Pakistan and the Indian government says that it respects the wishes of the Kashmiri people and Kashmir joins Pakistan.

So what??? Will the average Kashmiri notice any change in his living conditions? Will the lawlessness in Karachi disappear? Will hindu extremists stop hating muslims? Will muslim extremists stop hating hindus? Or will we simply realize the Chinese curse: May all your wishes come true.

And do you really think the Indian government will ever let go of the patch of land in Kashmir it has managed to get hold of, regardless of whether the dispute is internationalized or not?

````ROME, June 5: Pakistan reserves the right to use nuclear weapons against India in an extreme case, a top Pakistani military envoy told an Italian newspaper in an interview published on Wednesday.

The Indian army and air force outnumbers Pakistani forces five to one, and ``in an emergency, it is our survival that could be placed in jeopardy,`` Gen Jehangir Karamat told the daily La Stampa.

He said atomic weapons were a deterrent, and ``our position is not to use them because it would be irresponsible, but rather to be ready`` in an extreme eventuality.````

Another ARMY MORON who doesn`t know what the hell he is saying -- and he is Mushrraf`s envoy to ``explain`` Musharraf`s nuclear position to the European Union!!

Survival through a nuclear holocaust!! -- an uniquely Pakistani army imbecile concept.

--

The stupid General doesn`t even understand -- what NONSENSE he is blabbering -- ``it is our survival that could be placed in jeopardy`` -- AFTER -- the nukes start flying -- no karamat will save his army`s behind -- AFTER -- NOT BEFORE that.

There IS life after DEFEAT in a war -- there IS still `survival` after the so-called -- total defeat of a country by another country.

Sometimes it is the BEST thing that could happen to a belligerent country -- its chances of `better survival` increase hundred times -- after the `extreme eventuality` of TOTAL OCCUPATION -- examples -- Japan and Germany.

BUT THERE IS NO F#CKING `SURVIVAL` AFTER A NUCLEAR EXCHANGE -- PERIOD.

Will the MILITARY MORONS of Pakistan ever understand this CONCEPT.

The total idiot of a General gives the reason for not using a nuclear weapon as follows:

``our position is not to use them because it would be irresponsible, but rather to be ready``.

how reassuringly `responsible`!!

thanks for taking the high moral ground -- now the subcontinent can have a good night sleep -- because there is a `responsible` General holding the nuclear trigger.

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Romair,

#387,

Very poignant post.

Firstly, we completely understand why u guys wanted a separate country. Believe me , most Indians thank GOD you are NOT Indians, thank you very very much. Kindly dont belabor that point please. No Indian, repeat NO Indian , is shedding any crocodile tears that Pakistan has broken off, sorry to dissapoint you..that generation is senile or dead. God Forbid, NO Indian wants ANY of you BACK!!!

Secondly, Yes, Kashmir has been internationalised. Whooopee!! Has it sunk into ANY Pakistani`s head that EVENTHOUGH its been internationilised, not a SINGLE country slammed India for the abuses in Kashmir?! Hahn?!! Has NOBODY in the world other than Pakistanis read the AI reports on the internet??!!! Mushy announces in public 80, 90, 100 thousand people dying..being slaughtered, raped, by Hindians in Kashmir...what does Bush do? SCOLD MUSHY about reigning in the terrorists??!!!

What the HELL is wrong with this picture, I ask you? if it is`nt so tragico-comic, I dont know what is?

Does ANYBODY in the Muslim world posses a frikking computer? do they ever go on the frikking internet to read the frikking AI report on Kashmiri abuse by Hindia? If so, why is every Muslim nation just sitting there with their dicks in their hands? not one bloody morcha..not one protest against India..not even ``naam ke waaste??`` !!!

You know what? Its a rhetorical question OK!Because I`ve asked it a zillion times & NOBODY can answer it! WHY? Because EVERYONE knows that muslim countries dont give a S *IT about Pakistan says! After the OIC meetings are over, they use the resolutions for toilet paper..thats the blunt truth.

Mullah Urstruly, piously says how he doesnt hate hindus & how he believes that even we idol worshipping heathens ought to have a conscience. Maybe the good mullah ought to talk to the non existent conscience of the ummah..cos it sounds like they are more concerned about Palestinian muslims than Kashmiri ones.

If you call these guys your ``friends``, heck, you dont need enemies. Unless you think the Arabs & Indonesians are very scared of offending the Hindians-NOT!

Heck even the Bosnians & Kosovars were given more sympathy!

Am I being (what did you call me) theatrical?! you bet ya`!

You believe when the ``truth`` comes out, they will believe?!! The truth is OUT..Heck, it has been ``out`` all the time!!--So keep dreaming, my friend:)

Yeah, Romair, the BJP is screwed up-- agreed. But take a look at your own idiot, Mushy. I`ve lost all respect for him. He`s a hawk through & through. I think his policy of a 1000 cuts has hurt the Kashmiri cause more than anything else. You can spin it any Goddamned way you want..its too late. Those ``freedom fighters`` have been linked to terrorists..case closed..its too late now...score one for those bjp coyotes. Mushy swaggers around like he`s smarter than them ..who is getting scolded?

I`m not surprised at that MORI survey. Kashmiris are sick & tired of this war..because in the end the poor Kashmiris suffer & the rest of the world doesnt really give a sh *t about them & especially doesnt BUY Pakistani moral claims.

You can prance around with your sanctimonious optimism if it make you feel better. I think that Pakistani columnist in Jung said it best when he said ``isnt it surprising that Indians arent hated in the rest of the world as they are in Pakistan; and Pakistanis arent praised in the rest of the world as they are in Pakistan``!

Time you Pakistanis started getting a tad more introspective yourselves.