The Perfect Murder

``A Good Voice Silenced: Kashmir`s Loss Is Also Mine``

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15805-2002Jun8.html

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#546 saminashah

I`m afraid you`re confusing me with someone else. Hate doing laundry & have a daughter who hates being called a baby..

saxena dear

``...my dear child,``

can u like please not copy me?

``what`s got you excited?...``

er sweetness, merely pointing out how pathetic you sound taunting someone obviously delusional...excited, cutoo?

``and threats?...kahaan?...sapne dikh raheN hain?...``

pleeeeez poora post parho..phir aik baar aur parho...aur phir samajhnae kee koshish karroo...jabhi samajh ajaye, tab counter reply okay cutie?

``and you want me to fly to the islamic republic of pak``

and thats Pakistan to you aunty

``right, i`m the ``kid``...`

haina :) thought youd see the light if i explained nicely enough :):)

now you chill and dont feel you need to come back with a witty comeback forann forann...take your time...

have a lovely day, lovely

tahmed321 #551
tahmed, we come from different worlds(thank God!).

``2. I took exception at this generalization. Because this is stereotyping and dehumanizing a community.

Nope you made a derogatory comment about me personally. I was the one talking of dehumanizing of Hindus by a `generalized` Pakistani mindset and the dehumanizing of Muslims by the Hindutva mindset.

3. You responded by saying that whereas in India the decision makers are known (and you named Advani and some others), in Pakistan they are not.``

Nope I responded to your comments by saying you should have used at least a thousand words and a half dozen words to diss me to bring peace on the subcontinent. This was sarcasm. If you want me to change my opinion, FOR THE NTH TIME your personal dislike doesnot suffice.

``4. I responded that in Pakistan the decision makers are equally well known - and I named Musharaff and the current government (as is true for any country - you dont condemn a people for the actions or lack thereof of its government). And as this was no excuse.``

Pakistani decisionmakers are NOT equally wellknown, thats why I ask about who are the corp commanders and what is their history.

And I said these were SEPARATE questions to which btw I still have NO answers after all this overflowing fake peity which fools me not at all.

re: anny

{you dear child are starting too sound a bit too much like the annoying skinny kids who`d yell silly threats and stick their tongues out from a safe distance and try aag lagao at every chance but never have the tappar to come fight it out in the playground}

...my dear child, what`s got you excited?...and threats?...kahaan?...sapne dikh raheN hain?...and you want me to fly to the islamic republic of pak to `fight` about stupidity on an internet message board?...right, i`m the ``kid``...

POTA in action:

``picks up Daily Times’ correspondent under Official Secrets Act

NEW DELHI: Indian police on Sunday arrested Iftikhar Gilani, the correspondent of Daily Times, Pakistan, and the bureau chief of The Kashmir Times, Jammu, under the Official Secrets Act. Police raided Mr Iftikhar’s residence, and recovered a laptop allegedly containing sensitive information. Mr Iftikhar is the son-in-law of Syed Ali Shah Geelani, jailed under POTA. The officials alleged that several visa forms of Pakistan High Commission were also recovered from his residence. They claimed that the laptop shows highly sensitive information which, they alleged, was detrimental to the country’s security. Mr Iftikhar had also worked for several years with daily The Nation, Pakistan.`` (www.dailytimes.com.pk)

sadna #549 I owe you an explanation on why I consider you are being intellectually dishonest, the sequence of posts being as follows:

1. You talked about the ``generalized Pakistani mind``.

2. I took exception at this generalization. Because this is stereotyping and dehumanizing a community.

3. You responded by saying that whereas in India the decision makers are known (and you named Advani and some others), in Pakistan they are not.

4. I responded that in Pakistan the decision makers are equally well known - and I named Musharaff and the current government (as is true for any country - you dont condemn a people for the actions or lack thereof of its government). And as this was no excuse.

5. You ignored this point, and changed the subject by accusing me of something else (not providing you names of Pakistani decision makers or something like that).

6. It is because you of 5. where you dodged my point rather than having the grace to concede that you were wrong that I wrote that you were being intellectually dishonest and there was no point in further discussion.

Thanks and bye.

YLH FROM ISLAMABAD,

In the good old days it used to be rawalpindi, the capital. Islamabad means city for islam, true to the TNT tradition we first divided and a country, then created a brand new city for islam, jinnah should be proud. No other country, even the venerable saudi has a city for islam, and that makes every pakistani happy.

After mullah tahmed interpreted the true meaning of jihad, that it is a fight against social eveils, there has been a marked change in peoples views in pakistan, and is a proof of leading role of chowk in islamic renaissance. In the busy roads, I got hit by a bus, happy it was built in the army factory, and I was taken to the best hospital in islamabad, had some major procedures done. What is significant is that it is run by Islamic Jihad, having realised the true meaning of jihad after reading tahmed article.

I was warmly received by the new cetre for political studies, founded by lasker e toiba, which means servants of god. I the welcom speach, mullah omar mentioned chowk and tahmed for transforming the objective of his violent organisation.

Mujahideens are every where, humming the praise of chowk and tahmed, cleaning up the streets, helping old people cross the roads against their desires, and chasing the beggers to keep the place clean.

more later from pok. yours affectionaely ylh.

For all the peaceniks out there, this is not a choice between war and peace. It is a choice between war, and war by other means. Do not for one minute assume that by not going to war, our people will not die. Becuase in times of ``peace`` they are dying. And all the armchair liberals who moan about innocent people dying, well, innocent people are dying, everyday. The Armed Forces are prepared to fight, so do not hide your cowardliness behind this fake concern for soldiers lives. At leat admit that you are cowards, unlike this girl here...

``June 4 - Nearly three years after her father, Major C.B. Dwivedi, was

killed

by enemy fire on a strategic peak overlooking the disputed Kashmir

valley,

14-year-old Neha Dwivedi remembers every little detail surrounding the

day

she heard the tragic news.

It was July 3, 1999, at the height of a high-tension, high-altitude

border

conflict that erupted after India launched airstrikes against

Pakistani-backed forces that had infiltrated Indian-administered

Kashmir.

Along with her little sister and some of their cousins, Neha had been

dispatched to a nearby ice cream parlor for a special summer treat. But

when

she returned to her uncle`s home in New Delhi, India, where she was

spending

the holidays, she saw her mother weeping in a corner.

``There were lots of people in the house and when some of them saw me,

they

started crying,`` she recalls during a phone interview with ABCNEWS.com.

``Then my older cousin told me, `your dad has attained martyrdom.` But I

at

once told him to stop lying - even though I knew people wouldn`t lie

about

such things.``

Major Dwivedi was just one of more than 400 Indian soldiers who lost

their

lives in the blustery, shivering war fought on the frozen peaks of the

western Himalayas in the summer of 1999 in a bid to win back the

strategic

heights of Kashmir.

While Dwivedi fell to hostile fire, a number of casualties in the 1999

conflict were victims of the punishing rigors of fighting at altitudes

of

18,000 feet and more, where avalanches, snowstorms and the very air - a

rarefied atmosphere that can cause fatal conditions such as pulmonary

and

cerebral edema - pose a greater threat than enemy fire.

Almost three years after the armies of India and Pakistan fought what

is

popularly called ``the war on the roof of the world,`` a blustery fight

that

cost the two impoverished South Asian nations an estimated $1 million a

day

at its height, the armies of the two rival nuclear nations are gearing

up

for yet another confrontation.

Amid intense international pressure to arrange a face-to-face meeting

between Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee and Pakistani

President

Pervez Musharraf at the sidelines of a summit in Kazakhstan, the

international community has warned that a likely full-scale war between

the

two nuclear nations would be, to put it in Deputy Defense Secretary

Paul

Wolfowitz`s words, ``somewhere between terrible and catastrophic.``

While acknowledging the astronomical economic and human costs of

conducting

military operations in altitudes so high that skin, sweat and metal

freeze,

a spokesman for the Indian Defense Ministry says the Indian military

establishment is left with no other choice.

``Yes, it`s definitely very costly, in all respects,`` says P.K.

Bandyopadhyay, a spokesman for the Indian Defense Ministry. ``But we

have no

options because we have to control the strategic heights [overlooking

the

troubled India-Pakistan border]. But our troops go through intense

acclimatization training and our troop morale is very high.``

And even as she devours the current news of troop buildups along the

border

in preparation for yet another round of fighting, Neha maintains that

her

father`s death was not in vain.

``I don`t believe that I lost my father for nothing,`` says the

self-assured

14-year-old. ``In my mind, he is a shaheed [martyr] and I know this is

the

cost you have to pay. If it was not my father, it would have been

someone

else`s father.``

tahmed321 #545
Huh? I posted my opinion about Subhash Kak`s thesis here on chowk immediately after I posted it on sulekha, because I thought it would be dishonest to post it only there and not here. So sorry shoe doesnot fit.

If you mean asking for names of Pakistani generals is intellectual dishonesty, well I asked back in #338 long before rsridhar`s Kak post #447 or my reply on Kak #494. Its dishonest of YOU to pretend otherwise.

Your and others pseudo-pious tantrums here indicate the whole topic of who exactly are Pakistani corp commanders in the war/peace command and control structure and what is their background is a sensitive subject or a state secret.

Reminds me of a joke about the erstwhile Soviet Union. A guy called a Soviet minister a fool. He was punished with 30 years in Siberia, 10 years for being rude to a minister, 20 years for revealing a state secret..

One is forced to the conclusion that either the military dictatorship is wielding really tight control or you are protecting vested interests if you feel the need to throw hissy fits at a simple question about what is the background of those making nuclear war decisions in your country.

Here is another Aqil columnist -- deriding MiaN Mushrraf`s naive attempt -- to reinvent the Kashmiri wheel -- by sending of all the pople -- the stuttering `army envoys` like Karamt miaN --to European capitals -- with 750,000 Indian sodiers lined on the border -- and with stupid irresponsible remarks by the moron General -- like READY for nuclear ``first strike`` -- like ready to self-destruct Pakistan in order to save it? -- like suicide nuclear bomber -- give us Kashmir -- or we will annihilate ourselves!!

some military `diplomacy` -- indeed.

This is called sawaale digger, jawabe digger.

Kashmir and the General’s

motley crew

By Aqil Shah

(excerpts)

Driven by General Musharraf’s growing international isolation, this latest diplomatic offensive is aimed at convincing world leaders that Kashmir is the core dispute between the two countries; Pakistan’s principled stand is based on the legitimate aspirations of the Kashmiri people and India is the prime villain in the current military standoff.

Any sane person will find it hard to understand what pressure these ‘usual suspects’ could bring to bear on a world tired of listening to Islamabad’s familiar tirades on Kashmir, regardless of the moral dimensions of the issue at hand. .

To be fair to the egregious foreign office babus, however, the military’s core-issue mantra has had very few takers in the world community.

When push came to shove, even Islamabad’s closest allies found it expedient to shy away from their pro-Pakistan postures.

Moderate voices from within Kashmiri ranks, growing wary of the contours of Islamabad’s Kashmir policy, and the groundswell of international pressure, had clearly begun to turn the tide against the GHQ after 9/11.

Sadly for Pakistan, the military’s conservative insularity provided a shabby substitute for the political imagination needed to gauge the rapidly evolving nuances in regional geo-political configurations and shift course accordingly.

... while Indian leaders were deftly applying sustained pressure on the international community for a Kashmir-specific Phase Two of the war on terror, Pakistani generals were defiantly drawing fine distinctions between terrorists and freedom fighters.

That self-deluding defiance turned into political suicide in the aftermath of the December 13 parliament attack in New Delhi.

But as US intelligence assessments leaked to the press indicate, the military continued to play with fire even after General Pervez Musharraf’s “historic” January 12 speech in which he had categorically vowed to clamp down on extremist groups.

Many outside observers wonder why the Pakistani military refuses to abandon the seemingly counterproductive use of militant violence as an instrument of its India policy?



For a better part of its existence, the military has effectively held this country hostage to the vagaries of its corporate ambitions ostensibly pegged to the final solution of the Kashmir dispute.



since the early 1960s, the garrison has jealously eyed the prospects of a local uprising in Kashmir to “bleed” India. The 1965 debacle was a direct result of this invidious doctrine.

Come 1989, the outbreak of a largely indigenous insurgency in the Indian-held Kashmir provided the garrison with the golden opportunity to deploy the hardened militant cadres left over from the Afghan jihad to wage a freedom struggle for the Kashmiris.



Orchestrating the violence to internationalize the dispute periodically, the military used its growing arsenal of Islamic militants to keep the numerically superior Indian military bogged down in Kashmir throughout the 1990s.



It is clear that the May 14 Kaluchak attack by suspected militants was used deftly by India to further undo Pakistan’s support to the Kashmiris.

For all the references to the UN Security Council Resolutions, the establishment’s Kashmir policies have largely undermined the genuine struggle of the Kashmiri people who have invariably borne the brunt of Indian wrath, and are now caught on the wrong side of the US anti-terror campaign.

The promises General Musharraf made to the international community in January have now come to haunt him.



It is far from certain whether his recent decision to halt cross-border incursions will stick in the absence of a visible response from New Delhi.



But there is no doubt that the United States is pressing for a permanent end to the military’s jihad enterprise.

Within this context, it is critical to ask what a new batch of the General’s envoys can do to reverse a tectonic shift in regional geo-politics?

And no less importantly, at what cost to the public exchequer?(FT)

sadna #533 As a couple of times before, I end this discussion with you as a waste of time. Your intellectual dishonesty is remarkable. Bye bye.

Re Zafar 501

I did not comment because your attempted tamil was kinda cute, bordering on parody. It would have been better to hear this parody than read it! And I did not comment for another reason: though it is technically my mother tongue, I can`t read or write it the damn language, nor do I really regret the fact. It wasn`t offered by my school in Madras for ICSE!

Re Rsaxena 505

Okay, okay, okay, southies are superior. Just make sure the crown you make for us is not lined with felt inside because the coconut oil will stick on it and cause a stink eventually. Personally, I prefer coconut oil in the food. Damn the cholesterol and heart disease. Wonderful flavor.

Try the kerala style yellowish banana chips called ``nendrangai`` that is fried in coconut oil. The stuff is divine. Goes great with old monk or old cask neat.

FV,

Koi baath nahin hain. Keep em coming!

Soysauce

Ahem. Now I get it...I thought when you had written way back that you loved to cook and do laundry and had a baby...M`ashallah, ji thi rao! Regards to your family!

Harimau Sahib,

I am not convinced Harimau...and I don`t know if these interactor`s personal lives have anything to do with anything on Chowk. However, I do appreciate some of your focuses on other topics, so perhaps I`ll see you on another board. Play nice.

Drumz,

Are you familliar with Kemetic yoga?