Dissing Ideologies

An Indian summer

By Edward Luce

Published: July 1 2002 20:59 | Last Updated: July 1 2002 20:59





American diplomacy has averted the imminent threat of war between India and Pakistan. But senior members of the Bush administration know that it is only a matter of time before military tensions flare up again between the two nuclear-armed neighbours.

The prospects of renewed tension were underlined at the weekend with the appointment of L. K Advani as India`s deputy prime minister. Although Mr Advani was already seen as the successor to Atal Behari Vajpayee, the prime minister, his new title is a timely reminder of the hardline, anti-Pakistani elements that surround the ageing - and increasingly frail - prime minister.

``It might be three months, it might be nine months, but we all know that India and Pakistan will go back to the brink again,`` says a senior US official in Washington. ``Maybe next time they will go over the brink.``

Until now, the US has consistently respected India`s adamant refusal of third-party mediation on its core dispute with Pakistan over the divided state of Kashmir. But having sweated through the latest and most intense bout of nuclear brinksmanship, the US and its allies are quietly revising their long-held position.

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Nasah-sahab,

Sorry to hear you say that. Really.

Were iman a matter of make-believe the first revelation would not have been ``Read!``.

Similarly,

- ``And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.`` Surah 17 (The Children of Israel), Ayah 36

- ``And how can you have patience in that of which you have not got a comprehensive knowledge?`` Surah 18 (The Cave), Ayah 68

- ``And when he had attained his maturity, We gave him wisdom and knowledge: and thus do We reward those who do good.`` Surah 12 (Yusuf), Ayah 22

Islam expects Muslims to use their God-gifted powers of intellect and reasoning to understand and reflect upon the world around them.

- ``The likeness of the life of the present is as the rain which We send down from the skies: by its mingling arises the produce of the earth- which provides food for men and animals: (It grows) till the earth is clad with its golden ornaments and is decked out (in beauty): the people to whom it belongs think they have all powers of disposal over it: There reaches it Our command by night or by day, and We make it like a harvest clean-mown, as if it had not flourished only the day before! thus do We explain the Signs in detail for those who reflect.`` Surah 10 (Jonah), Ayah 24

- ``And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o`er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider.`` Surah 13 (The Thunder), Ayah 3

- ``And in the earth are tracts (diverse though) neighbouring, and gardens of vines and fields sown with corn, and palm trees - growing out of single roots or otherwise: watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who understand.`` Surah 13 (The Thunder), Ayah 4

- ``It is He who sends down rain from the sky: from it ye drink, and out of it (grows) the vegetation on which ye feed your cattle. With it He produces for you corn, olives, date-palms, grapes and every kind of fruit: verily in this is a sign for those who give thought. He has made subject to you the Night and the Day; the sun and the moon; and the stars are in subjection by His Command: verily in this are Signs for men who are wise. `` Surah 16 (The Bee), Ayahs 10-12

Nasah-sahab, there are numerous instances in the Quran where men and women are commanded to use their knowledge and intellect to increase their understanding of the world and thus, their faith in God.

I hope this helps to clarify that faith in Islam is not simply a superstitious tactic but rather the end-result of sometimes lifetimes of contemplation and thought. The Prophet himself spent over 40 years thinking and learning before the faith was revealed to him!

Yours sincerely,

Aamir Ansari

````faith (Iman) is a function of knowledge ````(Ansari)

Good math Ansari saheb.

Mathematically speaking faith is inversely propotionate to knowledge -- directly proportionate to make believe.

hobbyty,

you write, ``...faith by definition can not be lost, can a love ever be lost? even as we express its loss, we revel, even for a fleeting moment, in its propect and meaning). Even the expression of one Muslim of his or her separtion from their understanding of God and their relationship with Him, is a cause for tears in Heaven and Earth, this is my opinion, because the Muslim is a mercy to humanity, beyond ethncity, nationality, culture and history.``

Thank you for saying that. These are dangerous times to be Muslim in, much less express love for the fact and it is truly heartwarming to come across people like yourself who do so unembarrassingly.

I don`t believe in slogans or stereotypes or any of those labels people like to stick on to each other to justify their self-contempt. To a large extent, faith (Iman) is a function of knowledge and those who know are called Muslims. There is no room in knowledge for arrogance or cruelty or oppression. Not now, not ever.

``Read in the name of thy Sustainer, Who created

- created man from a germ-cell,

Read and (thou will find) thy Sustainer is the most bountiful:

He who taught the use of the pen,

Taught man what he knew not.``

Surah Al-Alaq (The Clot), Ayahs 1-5

Fawad

2 of my aunts are Iranian, as are 5 of my cousins,

and I lived im Iran for some time before the revolution. I can attest to the sentiment expressed by your guest; Arab vs Iranian, Sunni Vs Shia, Non-Islamic history and culture/traditions Vs Islamic - these kinds of complexes exist among a section of Iranian society, especially those who not only supported the regime of the Shah, but also those who were/are appalled by the excesses of the government of the Islamic Republic, in particular, the cultural de/reconstructions.

Where does this leave us? Exactly where we are, the sentiment of those who no longer feel a afinity are certainly a loss, but this is a small minority and the appropriate way to look at this, in my opinion, is as a contraction and expansion, like waves of the ocean as they crash and expand on land and recede. I am not aware of any society whose culture is not compilation and in most cases a reconciliation, even a adaptation, of the myriad of cultural and intellectual influences. Look at us, we are Pakistanis (a world of complexity and oppositions of experience in itself) we are also a particular ethnic group(in so far as we can maintain such a thing exist in our context) and language, not to mention a lovely and mind boggling mosaic of histories - And here we are discussing it all, in English.

So while it is a terrible loss to say that Islam is the religion of Arabs, it is also true for the individual who holds and expresses such a view. Can we remain oblivious to the effort of some to create out of Islam, a societal stasis that captures cultural traditions and knowledge, specific to many centuries past and to a specific geographical location? Had not Shah Valliollah Dehlvi, so long ago warned us of error?

As a blessing to humanity, God has sent us great scholars, who continue to warn and advise that the spirit of Islam in these matters is one of continueous, constant movement. If you should find the time, please reread ``Reconstruction of Religious Thought`` by Allahmah Mohammad Iqbal Lahori - you shall be literally, blown away - by the insight and the methodology of reconcilation. On these boards, as so few non-Indians and Pakistanis participate, we have only a limited criticism of the intellectual and cultural trends in Islam - but even here we must acknowledge that not all the criticism is without reason and is valid. But that is not the totality of the mercy and light that is Islam or the Muslim. Very many Muslims are confusing that which is permanent in Islam and that is is temporal - the reason such a sitaution exist is the banishment of Reason as the the companion of faith. So affraid are a section of the ulema that DOUBT may appear that they do not realize that DOUBT is an ESSENTIAL ELEMENT OF FAITH. Again, like the love, like the waves of the ocean, Faith can grow and recede, but certitude will make no such allowance (and with shame it allows some to say they have lost their faith - when it was never faith, that they had. Faith by definition can not be lost, can a love ever be lost? even as we express its loss, we revel, even for a fleeting moment, in its propect and meaning). Even the expression of one Muslim of his or her separtion from their understanding of God and their relationship with Him, is a cause for tears in Heaven and Earth, this is my opinion, because the Muslim is a mercy to humanity, beyond ethncity, nationality, culture and history.

re hobby

i recently invited am iranian doctor for tea i asked the dude about khatami he said no one knows what he is a reformer or radical when i asked why do most iranian s in america seem to be non practicing muslims he said islam is a religion of the arab and we have realized this ...............where does that leave us?

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Zafar Al-Talib, Akash, Dost Mittar

Sorry for late response - took a few days off, sun and swimming.

Should Pak army pull out of Azad Kashmir based on Roohi`s post? - No, Obscuritanists, sectarian outfits have in some instances done the same thing in Azad kashmir, that they have done in the rest of Pakistan; that is to say they seem to think that only they know Islam, yet this is not the same as a armed freedom struggle of 12 years, is it? Does it in your view, spring from the same dynamic, reasons, as that in captive Kashmir? If a mass political consciousness grows in Azad Kashmir that wants to have nothing more to do with Pakistan, will the Armed forces of Pakistan have any choice but to leave?

I note a tendency in your thinking to reach for equating things that are not similar (a theft of plates from a treasury and the theft of a bicycle from someone`s home, are both theft, yet they are very different - different for whom? for the victims of theft, for the thieves and for those of us who to evaluate these events) - I urge you to think about it - yes, I agree using such a technique as equating dissimilar circumstances takes arguments on a tangents - yet if that is what you intend, sure, I will accept it - but consider: We may actually learn something about our positions if instead of reaching for these absurd equations, we were to try to see if we are describing a situation in it`s fullness, are the tools we are using to describe and proscribe, rooted in reason, are we using emotion unduly as a crutch, are we making the error of confusing ideology with reason? should we not examine indivdual situations more deeply, more satisfactorily, before we begin to consider if our analysis will allow us to make statements about similarities and differences?

I`m not suggesting that we not defend our positions, but that we, at least, be interested in moving closer to understanding the ``truth(s)`` about situations and merely to obscure. I assure you that while I will defend the positions I`m taking, I remain open to looking at situations through the prisms mentioned above to enlarge and focus my own understanding - I look to you to offer me a larger, more complex, more detailed, view of not just any situtation but also an understanding of method - Why? because all this interaction must mean, (at least to me, and I am sure just about every one on Chowk) some gain in understanding, other than that of interacting with people with diverse peoples.

Akash

Run for office? I don`t really see that as a solution - I think if I understand, and influence others, to understand and see that ideas such as Reason and liberty - are missing from intellectual life of Pakistan and that this is not only a malady for the political economy, injustice, and an affront to our conscience and confessions, but also a threat to our future and to any that we as a nation have relations with. Now, as for the ``polite`` bit - it strikes me that the attitude of some is that someone who disagree with them is, that they are ``too abrasive``, ``too polite`` and if they should agree positions, a grudging, ``just right`` - neither of these is satisfactory - disagreeing, if we have justified our positions, is no big deal, what`s important, in my opinion, is whether we have learnt something, whether we have moved forward or even ``if`` we can move or further our understanding. Actually I think our problem on these boards is justifying our positions - perhaps you have some thoughts on this?

Dost Mittar

You must accept responsibility for your comprehension - you are welcome to take from the post in question the understanding you want.

How can you be armed and claim that everyone agrees with you?

Everyone is just scared to death. We all have just one life to

live to throw it away callously. Call us cowards but lot of us would

rather be a cowards and live.

You are a true leader when people follow you despite the threat to

their lives not because of the threat. If I am a kashmiri i would

be scared shitless to work for any govt organization, go to a movie,

go to a bar, vote or do any of the things that might make me look

unsympathetic to the militants. And the miltants claim that they

have popular support. They have popular support under duress not

of free volition.

The way to prove popular support is to get

involved in election process which is the only civilized way. And

please dont equate the armed forces of govt with the terrorists.

We have democratic ways to control the govt and the armed forces

through them. It is important to have the process. Just becuase they

dont work perfectly the first time is not reason to throw the process

away. Then you are not giving it time to mature and improve with checks

and balances.

Terrorists are basically mentally deranged maniacs who revel in violence.

They would be misfits in a civilized society where only intelligence

and rationality succeed. They want to take the sociery back to the wild

past when might was right. We should basically recognize these animals

for what they are and use our wits against them to incarcerate and kill

them. Time to develop more smart bombs. Or create a jurrassic park kind

of island where terrorist from all over the world can be exiled to.

We can observe them remotely to advance our behavior science. It will be

interesting to see what kind of behavior emerges. I am willing to bet

that sucidal bombing wont be as popular among them.

Satyavadi #453 you write ``I will add one thing though. If the LOC has to be declared as the Internation border for now, the first move will have to come from Pakistan, it being the anti-status-quo state. Just my thoughts.``

That will be fine with me. I will have my people contact your people to work out the details. In particular, I shall instruct my man, Musharaff, (who is from Delhi and I am sure you will like him) contact your man, who I assume is still that nice, poetic gentleman named Vajpayee.

(Just kidding of course, although it would be nice if things were so easy - after all these two chaps claim to speak on our respective behalf anyway).

temporal #450 pehla nuskha ta`aza narazgi ka thha. Koshish honi chaahiya kay narazgi kow ta`azgi maiN khatam kar diya jaye. Choosti say say choom lijyay, tow shayed phool khareednay ki zaroorat bhi nah parhay.

Agar baat barrh jayee aur oon ko naraazgi say chand ghantay tak araam na pohnchai, tow phir pehla nuskha HARGIZ istaymaal na keejyaa!! pyar dikhanay ki koshish ki tow oon say chapayr khaanay ka indeyshaa hai!!

Naraazgi purani ho jaye to doosra nuskha istemaal kijya: maskeen shakal banaa kar ghalti maaniya aur ``sorry, sorry`` kartay jayiay. Jab chehray par kuchh narmi kay asaar nazar ayaN to PHHIR pehlaa nuskhaa istemaal karyea.

NuskhoN ka phalsfa yeh hai: khwateen kay liyay ``feelings`` aham hiaN. Yeh baat kayee saloN kay baad samajh maiN ayee.

Shayed hamidm yah kissee aur hazraat kay paas behtar nooskha ho. Apna kaam to inhi nuskhon say chal ja`ata hai.

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tahmed321:

#407:

``In light of this discussion, then, the most practical solution seems to be to declare a moratorium on the issue, settle on the LoC for now, with a plebiscite to be held several decades from now, say in the year 2090. In the meantime, both countries could focus on improving living conditions for their respective people. Rather than being a detraction, Kashmir would serve as a postive incentive from the overall goal we started with. That is, Kashmiris would obviously choose to join the country where living conditions are significantly better in the year 2090.``

I will say Amen to that.

I will add one thing though. If the LOC has to be declared as the Internation border for now, the first move will have to come from Pakistan, it being the anti-status-quo state. Just my thoughts.

Sorry for the late reply, was out of town.

Satyavadi

tahmedsaab,

thank you for that. what threatened to be a revolution has now almost petered out into extinction. though only recently, i had the pleasure of watching my naani transform a sheet of cloth into a bedspread and two pillow-covers on our old Singer machine. there is a natural grace that comes with doing something for those you love and it was quite evident as we stood apart, naani and i, folding the bedsheet, moving closer with every fold.

yours,

aamir ansari

Saminashah,

``I like the connections/diffuse responses/associations you make in posting poems-unusual. . .``

hain??? and here i was thinking it was just another funny poem. ;)

thank you for yours. especially liked ``People -The moon is torn into gleaming grains of wheat and sown in the honest sky and earth``.

cheers,

aamir

sammi:

the `notes` was good...

tahmed:

...yaar baaz dafa hum maa`mooli gustakhiouN say aagay chalay jatay haiN...wahaaN...jahab aik aadh kiss aur dozen roses ki bhee pohanch nahiN hoti...oss kay lyay bhee koi nuskha hay aapkay pass;)?

_________________________________________________

SEA GULL II

(August 14/15, any year)



This morn shall come to pass
resolving naught
between the sinners.

Once they displayed
hope, fervour, imagination
even dogged resolve.

But in mere decades
(a flash, really
in history’s time clock)
lethargy, obscurantism,
inflexibility surfaced
awashed in stubbornness.

Aches this heart, wonders
when living peace finally
will break out in this family?

Enjoying the Montecristo
am still pacing the deck
still wondering
about those far-off lands
that Shangri-la etched on this heart.


---Where there is no Fear
From the cancerous ravages
of the Dark Void
of mind and body.


---Where Love
is not banished to cower
forever
in an unlit, hidden
crevice of the Soul.


---Where abounds Hope
over misery, poverty and disillusionment
where prevails for a better morrow
Hope that makes the Present
bearable, forgettable, sustainable.


---Where there is a faint glimmer
a flickering light
illuminating Hope
Eternal and unbought.



Yeh sub’h bhi guz’r jaaye gi



Kaash kay sub’h kay noor say
shub ki tareeki talak
haathouN say haath joRR kar
hum-a’hangi aur mohub’batouN ka
wasee ik jaal phaila daiN hum
apnay gaa’ouN, sheh’r, daise maiN
apnay dil-o-dimaagh maiN
wasee ik jaal phaila daiN hum.


Ji’you aur jinay dou
paighaam yeh a’mar karadaiN.


Laikin, khalish-e-dil ka kiya kijiyay
darta houn
aur sub’houN ki maanind
yeh sub’h bhi guz’r ja’aye gi.


But the lurking pain
forebodes
and the lingering doubts
overwhelm.


This morn shall come to pass
resolving naught
between the sinners.


---30---