Breaking News: Suicide Bomb in Karachi

Re: Shankar #80

I agree completely with the gist of your post. I`d rather hang out with Indians (North Indians, never quite hit it off with South Indians) than Arabs. The best thing we Pakistanis could do is to tell the Arabs, all of them, to FO and start treating them with the same contempt they treat us. Of course, its easier to be superior when you have money and its harder to not grovel when you have neither money nor a spine.

However, every now and then, a Pakistani comes along who does have a spine and some sense of self-respect. Lt. Gen. Kallue is one. In the 80s, Zia was going to send him to Saudi Arabia to command the Pakistani Armour Division there. A dream posting. In a month he would make much more than a year`s salary back in Pakistan. Pakistani soldiers (and airmen) beg, lie, cheat, accept reduction in rank, and worse, to get these postings. He turned it down. Zia, in shock, asked him why. His response was something on the lines of ``I am a Major General in the Pakistani Army and an officer of Probyn`s Horse. I will not grovel before an Arab.``

(Romair: Whats my source for this bit of hearsay? Zia`s MS who, in shock and shaking his head in astonishment, told some relatives of mine the next day who then told us. There, have I provided enough saboot?)

For all his other faults--vain, imperious, arrogant, whatever--Kallue was not the `ji hazoor, hazir hein,` naukari baz type. Of course, it helps, again, to be independently wealthy as he was, makes it much easier to say no. But which Pakistani has ever said `No` to even more money? We need a few more like him in Pakistan. Every beardo jackass foams at the mouth about `baa baa black sheeps` but never says a word about the Arab wannabees.

Oh yeah, becoming more Arab will make God love us more.



Re: Hariharan #93

Last time I looked, non-Muslims were exempt from having to sit for Islamiat, etc, papers. They were required to take Pakistan Studies instead. I`m betraying my age here but in my time, Islamiat was only compulsory up to Class IX (at least for `O` levels). By the time my baby sister left Kinnaird, it was compulsory through BA.

As far as tut-tutting about his publications, he is an IR guy. What do you expect a Pakistani IR type to write about if not India and Afghanistan? The socio-dynamics of state formation in Sub-saharan Africa? I`m sorry but I can`t honestly think of any Pakistani I know of (beardo, wildly liberal or somewhere inbetween) who actually likes India. But thats OK since I`m sure there aren`t all that many Indians who like Pakistan!

re shankar

shankar id like you to respond to what i say ...............

1) pakistan if not for arab oil and jobs would be even worse off economically than it is today

2) everything else is the truth and you took the words out of my mouth but pakistanis get treated this way cuz we r poor and we dont have a market that the arabs can sell to arabs only care about themselves (the govts i mean not the people) arabs do this to afghans iranians turks and malays basically arabs dont care about chechyna or heck even kosovo but most of it is the Pakistani fear of high oil prices and lack of access to jobs in the middle ..........india has a huge market and can close off the arabs to it pakistan doesnt have this option now what do you say?

what pakistan can do....................

1) just go buck wild on all militants i say any body thank even PREACHES VIOLENCE kill them

2) CO OPERATE WITH MOSSAD THE ISRAELIS ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD WE NEED THEIR EXPERTISE

3) HIT AT THE ROOT CAUSES OF TERROR:HATRED

somebody said the madrassas shut be closed i disagree i think MODERN subjects should be taught where the kids can GET JOBS OR AT LEAST A HANAFI PAKISTANI FORM OF ISLAM not wahabi WORSHIP AND KISS ARAB ARSE form of islam

just some thoughts

re:Reply #: 20

Romair,

I hope you at least agree that Pak should join hands with India in fighting terrorism. I hope you consider the attack on the embassy in Karachi an attack of terrorism. If you do agree, then please enlighten me why this and other such attacks are happening in Pak. I had warned in the past that this use of miltancy to solve political problems (in kashmir and other places) is a double edged sword and can backfire. This should surely be a eyeopener. People should realise that terrorists have no boundaries,no ideologies and are a menace.

Sridhar

RE: Reply #: 68 Romair

There you go again about Kashmir. There has not been ONE representative government that has completed it`s term of office in Pakistan and yet you keep harping about the goings on in Kashmir. As more and more readers and analysts are pointing out in Pakistani newspaper, Kashmir seems to be the proverbial bone that`s stuck in Pakistan`s throat that is going to choke it to death.

Leave Kashmir be. Save Pakistan first and then worry about Kashmir.

re:Reply #: 23

Zeemax,

``More likely it is some invisible hand using unsuspecting vehicles by remote triggers like a cell phone.``

Gee! i know who you refer to. The indoo-jew conspiracy all over again. But then if the hand is invisible (as you claim), we may never know who did it.

Sridhar

re:Reply #: 25

Romair,

Re-read my first post and tell me if there is any trace of enjoyment in that post. Read my other posts related to such attacks. There is only one theme viz terrorism is always bad, however justified the cause may be.

I have yet to see a single post from pakis condemning what happened in Jammu recently. I may have missed some posts condoning such acts but by and large Pakistanis have kept their silence at killing of innocent people by militants in J and k. They were however quick to point out the Gujarat carnage. I suspect a lot of them were very happy at India`s failings.

Sridhar

re:Reply #: 25

Romair,

In continuation of my post (please bear with me here), i am surprised you are surprised at what is happening.

I have said in the past that Pak`s role in fomenting Kashmir insurgency in the form of training militants, helping them cross LOC to foment trouble has been a bad policy. I never once denied that Kashmir do not have genuine grievaces but the way to redress those grievances is not through violence. India acted the only way any state would act, when confronted with terrorism within its borders: by its military might.

Once US brought tremendous pressure on Mushy to roll back support to terrorists and seal lOC, where do you think the terrorists will go? There is only one way: back to Pakistan. They are a frustrated lot and feel betrayed. So, expect more such attacks.

Pak can join with india and fight these rats. Once they rats are killed, both India and Pak can start anew on all matters including J and k. The world is fed up of this confrontation and would like a final settlement. This is the only way.

Sridhar

Saminashah: Thanks for the explanation defending me. The responses I get are not atypical of the defenders of the faith at chowk. Since they do not have material to counter my allegations or suggestions, they resort to personal attack trying their best for character assassination as if I had been presenting myself as a saint.

Their infatuation with and the alleged superiority of their religion through indoctrination process involving education system and government controlled media has blinded them to an extent to even remotely consider the possibility of religion playing any role in the quagmire we are in. Then they turn around and happily accept that religion is the main cause of Kashmir problem dating back to independence movement and two-nation-theory. One of the poster whose whole post was an angry personal attack happened to have written an article against getting angry few month ago. He should better practice what he preached, others like 12-handled Trojan horse is not worth taking seriously.

You are absolutely right about a large number of people tacitly approving or being indifferent to the activities of handful of terrorists. All the madrassahs are run by donations - not by handful of people. Why do people in Karachi, Lahore and other major cities donate money knowing too well what it is producing? No serious voices were raised in Pakistan when Nawaz Sharif tried to introduce Shariat amendment to the constitution because in Pakistan, anything with Arabic sounding name means goos and unobjectionable. The Shariat bill would have ruined womens` rights, minorities rights and basic civil liberties.

It is precisely this indoctrination I object to. Otherwise why would a whole village turn into a mob and burn down a qadyani mosque(?) after hearing azaan (call for prayer according to shariat) from it. I have no doubt that if a referendum is held in Pakistan to brand qadyanis non-Muslim, 90+ percent will vote for it with chanting allah-o-akbar; against shias it would be 50-70 percent, perhaps.

It is fashiionable to blame it on wahabis and deobandis and claim sufism to be the real Islam. If that turns out to be another rotten eggs in future, fall back to the teaching of Imam Ghazali, then onto something before that but never consider using mind or anything out of this circle.

Perhaps, to please these folks at chowk, I must lie and say that MB Qasim, Ghaznavi, Ghauri, Taimur, Abdali and other invaders actually brought garlands and peace-loving religion to otherwise caste-ridden society. Pity! they will be unable to explain why it succeeded more in less caste-ridden Punjab than more caste-ridden Bihar? Nobody stopped sufis from going to Bihar. Didn`t they passed through Bihar on their way to Bengal?

bluenoon,

the death of those poor people in Pakistan is going to lighten the grief of the victims of terrorism in India?...

the only pigs who rejoice at this are the terrorists themselves. The sad fact is they attach names of religions , prophets, laws to their murderous groups. They are in every religion.

#: 97

sadna

Just wanted to point out one way to join the dots when we are done exchanging mutual compliments



Sadna

YOU MUST BE GENIUS!

If url links & verbal diarhoea ever changed policy or course of history then Indian would never be always be subservient to foreign powers.Osama or otheres say thousand things sometimes in a day .

You can pick & choose his dialogues to make him a lone ranger ,Robin Hood ,Superman, Batman OR Spiderman as Aljazera does to its Arab Audience or

feed the paranoia of Americans that every week they see shadow of him when the Leaves of the japanese flower plants donated move with the cool breeze from the POtomac.

Remember One incident in Karachi may prove your theory right but Kashmir Israel live with it every day .

shankar bhai #90,

you`re right about the Arabs....but what can you expect from a bunch of selfish uncivilized bedouins sitting pretty on oil and their belief in being `true` Muslims, or the people who are guaranteed heaven.

i dont` think many Pakistanis think Arabs as their brothers. unless they`re cool with me, i certainly don`t.

bluenoon26

Reply # 95

`` Two hindu pilgrims have been gunned down by pakistani terrorists yesterday in Kashmir. ``

actually the paki terrorists murdered three Hindu children. Naturally all Indians feel a little pacified when we see such child killers also killing couple of their own in pakiland .....

it`s happy to see couple of such ``fractions`` of ``thousand cuts`` inflicted on pakiland.

Romair,

#68

{{The reason this has taken place is because Pakistan is supporting USA. Otherwise the only terrorism in Pakistan historically has been due to Shia-Sunni situation. Al-Qaeda never did anything in Pakistan. So which chickens are you talking about. And the attack was directed towards a US building, not towards Pakistan.}}

Al-Qeeda (now I`m going to believe US ``propaganda`` OK..so sue me) is a NETWORK. The main source of funding & top management is arab, but Pakistan is a vital link in middle & lower management. A lot of recruiting and training occurs in the madrassahs located in Pakistan.

Ramzi Youssef, I believe, was a PAKISTANI, where he recieved training in his skills. John Walker Lindh , a Jehadi, was with Al Qeeda, did fight BOTH in Kashmir & in Afghanistan. He got trained in PAKISTAN. The Shoe Bomber got trained in PAKISTAN. The Hispanic guy they arrested from Chicago got trained in PAKISTAN.

There is considerable sympathy for OBL and Al-Qeeda in parts of Pakistan. All these jihadi groups have connections with Al-Qeeda. OBL`s posters, T-shirts, cassetes sell quite well.

Of course Al-Qeeda never struck Pakistan before 9/11. Maybe Mullah Omar`s Afghanistan was Al-Qeeda`s headquarters, but Pakistan was a very important base for Al-Qeeda. Why in the world would they strike Pakistan?! I believe ( because US ``propaganda`` says so) that the ISI was using Al-Qeeda supported terrorist organisations like J-e-M & L-e-T to wage a war of a 1000 cuts in IOK.

The US declared them terrorist organisations. Mushy was in a bind as he had promised ``unstinted support`` to the US .He went on tv & made his historic speech about the strategic U turn. He shut them down, arrested a few leaders & froze their bank accounts (curiously, they had only Rs 200 in them). Even so, the jehadis were so furious that they were plotting to assassinate him by XMas.

By the time the snow melted, the leaders were no longer in house arrest, & cross border infiltration resumed. All that these groups did was form a different ..er ``corporation``.. someting-e-somethingelse, India raised the stakes (gave hool), Pakistan gave hool back by firing 3 test firing 3 missiles, India yawned by saying ``we know its hool; are you trying to kid a bania?!`` . Then they went to Uncle Sam. Uncle Sam confirmed that Mushy was lying & told him to cut the crap!

To add insult to injury, not a SINGLE muslim country in the world slammed India, esp after what happened in Gujrat!

So you think Pakistan is absolutely innocent? I dont think so. Mushy thought he was smarter than everybody & would lie with a straight face. My foot, he`s sincere! He`s the guy who sabotaged the Lahore peace process & has been a Hawk all along. He`s been basking in his own glory & now everyone is gunning for him.

So the ``chickens``...the terrorists... he nurtured have now turned against him & the US..Read the latest Newsweek article

Please spare us your speeches about how cold blooded hypocritical murderers we Indians are & how humanitarian Pakistanis are. You guys are legends ONLY in your own minds. Open your eyes & accept some facts for Gods sake, O peaceful humanitarian Pakistanis:

1) Not a single country in the world has slammed India. Ergo, the world has basically told India that our crimes are bad ( God help our souls), but hasnt stirred the conscience of the world to condemn it--even though the attention of the world is on the subcontinent.

2)I got news for you folks, if you cant win Kashmir now, you better kiss it goodbye, its a lost cause.

You tried to win Kashmir militarily twice, you lost.

You tried diplomatically, you lost.

You tried covertly, you lost.

3) You guy are SO sure Indian Kashmiris LOOOOVE Pakistan? OK, you thought that in 65, what happened?

Romair, you go on & on on how much they HATE Indians. Yeah maybe so. This uprising became really bloody when Pakistan poked its nose into it..Read the MORI report..

4)Its Pakistan that is diplomatically isolated, not India. Its Pakistan that is being scolded, not India.

5) If Uncle Sam says its true, its true--OK! Hes the top gun. What numero ono says..goes..its always been that way since time immemorial..no use crying about it..

One last thing Romair, instead of asking me to tell the Indian govt to change its ways (a waste of time) why dont you & your Kashmiri friends make a pilgrimage to Mecca & fast unto death near the Ka`baa until the voices of the Kashmiri victims are heard & resonate all over the world! Organise Kahmiris to go & lie in front of the Times Square & Picadally Circus & invite the cops to lathi charge them.

You want to TERRORISE the BJP?! Ask me:) I`ll guarantee you I`ll make both Vaju & Advani take a dump in their dhotis...

nasah wrote on musharaf:

``for his three wasted years -- of indecisions, wishy washy reforms, and utterly misplaced priorities -– and the devastation he brought to the consensual democratic politics of Pakistan -- to put it mildly.``

well said. the abscence of democracy stings in moments and times like these. i wonder how musharaf must feel pretending to be a leader without any followers? trying to convince the masses who won`t listen. and in the world of opportunism, the external forces make merry with his predicaments.

Many analogies have been drawn with Turkey. He is no Ataturk. However, he is indeed the `sick man` of the subcontinent!

RE: Reply #: 77 Harpreet

``- You are spot on. And India has just recently tasted what happens when Hindu extremists and terrorists are cosseted and allowed to run wild inside. My friends wife who`s family lives in Ahmedabad says that the true death toll there is around 5000. Lets attend to our problems and not get too sanctimonious.``

Harpreet,

I wish you had read my other posts on the Ahmedabad massacres before your knee-jerk post.

And I am sure that Musharaff brandishing nukes like Diwali crackers is going to turn our own Saffron Brigade pitbulls into pussycats.