Kashmir Fatigue

Layman #700 ``Dalit vs Shudra`` Are they not the same, aka untouchables?? Would appreciate being enlightened on this.

kafir khan #698 That was almost funny. Take the anger out of your post (by realizing, e.g., that my feedback on your Brahman-bashing was for your own intellectual development), and you would be actually funny. Keep at it my friend, and soon you will lighten up and start cracking good ones like a pro.

Re roohi/sadna

Do visit the science section of the New York Times--tuesday--they had a fascinating article of some excavations in Egypt--they found ruins of an ancient seaport that shows strong evidence of trade with India, most probably the Malabar coast as evidenced by a ton of teak wood that might have been salvaged from old boats. They have also found things with sanksrit citations, etc. And this harks back to the Post-Pharoah Roman era of Egypt.

BTW, that was a good book. Ghosh has also written an interesting travel narrative on Burma/cambodia and some nice pieces in the New Yorker over time.

re:Reply #: 678

tahmed sahib,

Thanks for the info. So, our Pyar kiye ja is not a Pakistani. He berates brahmins, so he can`t be a brahmin. We are now getting closer to truth.

Methinks, this guy did not get much ``pyar`` when he was growing up as a kid. You see how bad that is , don`t you?

Sridhar

tahmed321 #696

I`m so pleased that you and Shankar dada smoked the peace pipe together, but my only complaint (read whine) is why was I not invited??? Afterall, my name was mentioned in both posts..soooooo I should have inhaled some of that peaceful aroma as well, hai na?!?

I`m also pleased that the matter has been laid to rest..ab meri raaton ki neend wapas aajayegi, and anyway..pointless to drag it out too long :) (zubaan-gaal-mein)

Roohi # 704

Oh My Learned One, You Are My Highest Guru.

Please bless my house. Jenaab aap Hammari Kutia Main Tashreef Layen. Darshan Deejiye.

Hi Fawad79!

I would like to teach South Asian lit, but right now what I`m teaching is more of a women`s studies/general studies class, and I`m focusing on women writers from South Asia and the Middle East. We`re reading Bapsi Sidhwa`s `Cracking India` right now, and yesterday we watched half of the movie that is based on it, which is Deepa Mehta`s `Earth`.

I don`t know if I can speak to whether there is a difference in Pakistani and Indian Muslim culture, so I`ll leave that one for someone else to answer. :)

Roohi,

Thank you for reminding me about our Bangla brethren. :)) I was remiss in not mentioning them. I must go to the library this evening, and get AG`s `In An Antique Land`. I`ve heard so much about it, but I, too, have I lonnng list of books that are a must read!

If you already are an avid reader of The Friday Times, then perhaps you`ve read Najam Sethi`s editorial this week about women and honour. I like the metaphor of a historical rack:

``Pakistan is stretched on a historical rack, an arm and a leg in antiquity and barbarism, an arm and a leg in modernity and civilisation. Old notions of sovereignty, statecraft, politics, power, patronage, despotism, honour, religion and culture vie with modern symbols of globalisation, electoral democracy, constitutionalism, accountability, civil society, gender equality, professionalism, competitiveness and universal literacy. ``

Read his editorial, and the article on Shahnaz Kausar written by Khalid Hasan in www.thefridaytimes.com.

Fawad 79,

Re 703

Deepak Chopra is good, but very expensive.

He is able to articulate and talk with confidence.

But I think he takes too much material only from

his own Guru, which he refers often as, ``Indian

sages said...``

He lives near San Diego. One of his great fans, recently told me one of his lecture circuits cost

around 5K per person.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Changing topic,

I heard from one of my co-worker that ``hukka`` is getting popular in Los Angeles? What about the east-coast?

Roohi #: 684

``In an Antique Land is a totally amazing book. Please do read it ``

I entirely agree. Two things struck me most about the book. 1)The gentle yet intelligent and scholarly personality of the author and 2) ignorance, almost amounting to hatred of the Egyptians towards Hindus, and this is several decades ago when we were their biggest supporters!

roohi #684
``In an Antique Land is a totally amazing book. Please do read it (if you have not) - I just finished it.``

Thanks I will. Amazing that you can fit in a book between summer and two kids who sound delightful, btw.

``Amazing how the Muslim-Jew, Hindu-Muslim world operated so seamlessly in the Indian Ocean Trade``

Yes, and there is that still existing Jewish quarter in the middle of the spice district in Cochin..

Perhaps there was a Chinese/Far East element too. Have you seen the Chinese fishing nets still used in Kerala? Recently someone pointed out how the cooking `kaDhaai` was called `Cheen chatti` in Malayalam, meaning literally `Chinese pot` (a Wok evidently). I wonder if calling sugar chini in Hindi/Urdu has anything to do with the Chinese.

re: tahmed

{Havent been to angkor wat, but got bitten by a monkey once in a hindu temple in bali (presumably the monkey had a communal bias).}

...my sympathies...it`s always bitter to be bitten by a camel...

im sorry about my posts being unending........

but this is racist trash and i object to it as a pakistani this in no way represents my views

Indian Raj across Atlantic

By Anjum Niaz

``It may well be in our interest to sing Musharraf`s hosannas, but it is far from clear to me that he can undertake a series of profound reforms to rescue the Pakistani polity from its near-decrepit state,`` Professor Sumit Ganguly tells CNN in a cloyingly American accent.

``When you say `our`, you mean India?`` asks the flummoxed anchor. A horrified look laced with hurt suddenly takes the swagger out of the South Asian expert. ``I speak as an American,`` Gunguly says with renewed gusto.

Fustians like him can cry till the cows come home about being American, talking like Americans, and acting like Americans, but the bottom line is that the big white guys in the corporate media are still loath to think of desis as Americans. In any event, Indians form a critical mass in the eyes of Uncle Sugar of America. Having metastasized to a whopping 1.7 million today, they have galvanized into a hegemonic, chauvinistic and expansionist community, bankrolling US economy and playing the money grubbing game with their banya business deals, tech-savvy industry, sophisticated hotels and restaurant chains, centuries-old arts and culture and eye-catching Indian goods scattered from Bloomingdales to petty Patel stores dotting USA.

``Jews are the jewel in the American crown while you are about to see our raj and our widespread influence drown the Diaspora to become a juggernaut,`` says an Indian-American Vimal, owner of a fast food chain which is making him a millionaire many times over. Proudly, he proclaims ``The Jews and the Indians have a deep relationship centred around their common hate for Muslims. And we are fast getting there.``

Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld make three birds which the Jews and Indians already have in their claws - so why bother with more in the bush?

Time magazine recently impugned Indian PM Vajpayee, saying the fat old fogy was getting so forgetful that the nuke button under the geriatric`s finger should be removed. Penned by its New Delhi correspondent, Alex Perry, Asleep at the Wheel? got the Indian community here cringing fatuously. Particularly, the Modi couple. Husband Dr Mukund Modi, founding member of the Overseas Friends of the Bharatiya Janata Party, and wife Kokila, a doctor who gave Vajpayee his annual exam for decades, streaked into the Time Managing Editor James Kelley`s office at the Time House in Manhattan. Throwing the 20-year-old medical records at Kelly, while half a dozen editors watched, the Indian `delegation` of powerhouses like Rajeev Khanna, president of the India American Chamber of Commerce, Ramesh Diwan, a university professor, and N. Lakhan, a wealthy businessman hotly demanded a retraction!

Indians have a terribly short fuse when it comes to being criticized. Crying murder, BJP President Jana Krishnamurthy alleged a ``foreign hand`` (Pakistan, who else?) behind the Time story, saying, ``It is a deliberately planted story. We will have to see who planted it.`` Eat your heart out JK!

The only laid back response came from Rahul Bedi, of the UK-based Daily Telegraph: ``It is not saying anything that is untrue. Most of it was common knowledge and Time magazine only published it.``

India`s newest best friend on Capitol Hill, Congressman Frank Pallone, is from New Jersey. A Democrat and a defender of New Delhi, Pallone is the founder and co-chair of the Congressional Caucus on India and Indian Americans.

Urging stoppage of any and all military aid to Pakistan because Musharraf, he says makes ``empty promises`` on fighting terrorism in Kashmir and ``lies about holding democratic elections.`` It is imperative that ``there must be some system for ensuring that Pakistan is accountable for the money that has been allocated by the US. We should demand evidence that although economic aid may be going to schools and other social projects, that the investment is not then freeing up money that is reallocated towards weapons for Islamic militants and resources at terrorist camps.``

Obviously, the Indian-centrics here have done a swell job in handing a hate brief to Pallone, 51, who despite holding an MA in international relations from the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University, acts as a fledgling in foreign affairs. Bypassing the Kashmir conflict, he instead goes for Musharraf`s jugular. Son of a policeman, he has ratcheted up the Indo-Pak rivalry to ingratiate himself with the large Indian community residing in New Jersey, America`s most populated state.

``If truth be told, the Indians here have received a slap on their face from Bush mollycoddling Musharraf while slicing Vajpayee,`` says an Indian Muslim Hammad. Having lived here for 30 years, he is disgusted with how India is treating its Muslim minority. ``We have a soft spot for Pakistan,`` he says and is convinced that the attack on Indian parliament didn`t have Islamabad`s support but was the ``work of RAW (Indian intelligence agency).``

However, Indian Americans, gigantic in numbers and power (compared to Pakistanis) are staunchly homogeneous when it comes to ``special interest`` demands. Acutely aware of and persistently seeking government grants - available for community organizations and religious celebrations - they snatch their pound of flesh from the US government. With several hundred Indian Americans in the school systems - enough to flex their muscles in seeing the school environment more conducive to their needs - like inclusion of Indian history in the curriculum! ``We are the largest and have the most prominent status to date, it would be foolish not to leverage our clout to get better services for our community,`` argues one woman activist.

Culturally, Pakistan is a wasteland, nowhere to be seen on the American landscape. While the Indians are omnipresent - Bollywood of course is best buddies with Hollywood. Now America is bombarded with ethnic films - producer/writer Mira Nair being the high priestess (Monsoon Wedding) - Shebana Coelho, producer of Desi, a documentary that examines the South Asian diversity is the latest to hit us. American Chai, has already made an impressive debut in exploring issues of assimilation, generational conflict, and interracial dating. Threading the same theme is Sunaina Maira, Professor of Asian American Studies at Amherst, in her book, Desis in the House. She writes about nostalgia, authenticity, and the aesthetics of ``cool`` in the subculture of second generation Indian American youth in New York City.

Nisha Ganatra, director, writer and star of Chutney Popcorn gives more of the same in the shifting relationships in an Indian-American family, in which veteran actress Madhur Jaffrey and her real-life daughter Sakina Jaffrey address issues of assimilation, surrogate motherhood, lesbianism and family. Health guru, Sarina Jain has created Masala Bhangra Workout, an aerobic exercise routine that combines dance, with high-energy cutting-edge aerobic moves! How more imaginatively materialistic can one get?

But here comes the Indian anti-hero armed with his needle (The Karma of Brown Folk) which pokes the Indian-American bubble by challenging the stereotype of Asians (read Indians) as a model minority. Vijay Prashad, well-known activist, professor of International Studies at Trinity College and Z Magazine columnist simply says that Indians are deployed as ``weapons in the war against black America.``

``How does it feel to be a solution?`` `kill joy` Prashad asks the unwanted question, denuding the Indian-Americans of their hubris.

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© The DAWN Group of Newspapers, 2002

if u have any know;edge of farsi this is unbelieveable to me farsi is nothing like urdu this guy was a genius .......have any of u read reconstrustion of religuous thought in islam i really found it to be weird: he denies the existence of a literal heaven and hell says sharia is not important and says change should be inherent in islam....................

well this is so weird.........

`Allama Iqbal could not speak Persian`

Bureau Report

PESHAWAR, July 11: Dr Mohammad Iqbal, who produced two-thirds of his poetry in Persian language, could not speak a single word of the language which gave him a special place in the history of Persian poetry.

This was stated by Dr Zahoor Ahmed Awan, a local columnist, in his speech at the certificate-awarding ceremony organizedby theKhana Farhang-i-Islami Jamhoori, Iran here on Wednesday.The ceremonywasarranged to awardcertificatetostudentsof Persianlanguagewho completed their firstandsecondlevel courses this year.

Dr Awan said Dr Iqbal with Allama Syed Suleman Nadvi and SirRassMasood visited Afghanistan in October 1933.Theywere invited by King Nadir Shah, father of King Zahir Shah tocompile the syllabus for students of Kabul University.

Ontheir way to Afghanistan, he said, Dr Iqbal, AllamaNadvi and Sir Masood stayed for a night at the Dean Hotel in Peshawar. During his 15-day tour, Dr Iqbal spoke at various gatherings, but inUrduorEnglish and Allama NadvimadetranslationofDr Iqbal`s speeches, he added.

He said Dr Iqbal was the pioneer of a unique style in Persian poetrywhich ended with the death of the poet of the east.But, he could not speak the language of his mentor, Maulana Rumi, Hafiz Shiraz, Saadi, Jami, Khaqani and Firdusi. It was uniquehandicap, which needs a research to be made, he added.

The Director of Khana Farhang, Peshawar, AghaRaeesusaadat, said Persian had motherly relationwiththe Urdu.

PKJ #695

Don`t know why I bother ... but

Jain, Buddh and many different strains of Hinduism had coexisted for hundreds of years with a rich tradition of vigirous debate and many theological overlaps. Last time I checked Jainism was alive and well and Buddha was still revered by all hindus (Brahmins included) as Vishnu`s 9th avatar.

Sant Kabir`s mentor and Guru was Swami Ramanand of Benaras (of Tamil descent), a Brahmin - he was also the Guru of Sant Ravidas and one of his compositions is included in The Guru Granth Sahib along with those of Kabir and Ravidas.

A lesson in the breadth of Indian thought the Gurus included in the Guru Granth Sahib.

Guru Granth Sahib was compiled by Guru Arjan Dev who included the hymns of the following in the Granth:

Guru Nanak, Guru Angad, Guru Amardas, Guru Ramdas and himself (Guru Arjan)

15 renowned saints of both Guru period and pre - Guru period. Farid and Bhikhen were Muslims and others were Hindus. Hindu saints were from both higher and lower castes, e.g., Ravidas, Sain, Sadhna and Namdev were from lower castes, whereas Parmanand, Surdas, Jaidev and Ramanand were Brahmins. The Bhagats also represented different parts of India, e.g., Farid was a Punjabi, Dhanna was a Rajasthani, Jaidev was a Bengali, Namdev, Parmanand, Trilochan and Pipa were Maharashtrians, Sadhna was a Sindhi, Sain was from Madhya Pradesh, and Kabir, Bhikhen, Beni, Ramanand, Ravaidas and Surdas were from Uttar Pradesh.

17 bhatts (court poets) most of whom were Brahmins.

3 other disciples Bhai Mardana, a Muslim, Sunder, and Satta & Balwand, Muslims.

Guru Gobind Singh, later (1706), added the hymns of Guru Tegh Bahadur in it and declared it to be the Guru of the Sikhs.

The languages used in the Granth are:

Panjabi - Sikh Gurus , Bhagat (saint) Sheikh Farid and others

Sindhi - Guru Arjan

Sanskrit - Guru Nanak, Guru Arjan and others

Influence of Arabic and Persian - Bhagat Namdev

Western Panjabi/Lehndi - Guru Arjan

Gujrati and Marathi - Bhagat Namdev and Trilochan

Western Hindi - Bhagat Kabir

Eastern Hindi - Court poets

Eastern Apabhramas - Bhagat Jaidev