Coney Al Jazeera
Rehan Ansari June 23, 2002
#131 Posted by hobbyty on July 11, 2002 4:33:14 am
SaminaShah
Samina
First of all sorry for the late response - now to my opinion of male attitudes towrads sex, sexuality in Pakistani society: As you we discussed earlier I am convinced there is some sort of tremendous FEAR among men in Pakistani society about sex and sexuality - A fear of WOMEN.
I do not know how or when to locate it time or to a specific idea in our society (except to the ideology of the Obscuritanist - but that is all too easy and while valid, I don`t think it is satisfactory; in the general sense)
I do not understand the NEED to repress and do violence to women, as expressed in our society - and certainly the attitudes among men (entirely personal, non-scientific) are victorian, with a strong streak of the loathing of sex and sexualityand at the same time intense curiousity and attraction. Of course this means girls and women who even so much as exhibit the slightest idea that they enjoy the attraction or are attracted by the ``maleness`` or enjoy sex or the idea o sexuality are ``whores`` and such; a sort saint/slut paradigm that our repressed society seems to support. I think this supports the jelly like inside of men in our society when it comes to women - it seems we never outgrow our childhood; the women, our mothers, still holding together the fragileness of our ego, when it comes to sex. Where is that lovely Ms. Rizvi who used to write on Chowk?
I also think that this has some connection to our culture`s aggrandizment of the ``love`` as being a powerful, majestic wave that must crash and break against the immovable in society; a failure of love, of love being merely ``baazi`` instead of the ``aishk baazi`` as act one, scene one, in a long complicated journey of self discovery and ultimately self discipline; one and one make two before arriving at the proposition that one and one make one.
Do you not think that the entire concept of ``love`` and pair bonding is devalued in our society; especially among younger persons? Flirting, dating, love making are intensely attractive and will become increasing so, to the younger (and not necessarily confined to the younger) amongst us and I think our inablity, our society`s inability to rise to this need being felt in our society, will make us even more sick -what do you think?
These attitudes even reflect in clothes - in that awful heat - covered up head to toe, in volumes of cloth, wrapped up like some living dead - as if ``modesty`` as but one definition and interpretation - even the cultural prohition against shaking hands among some - it`s just really sick - just intense sexual awareness and just intense denial, as if it is possible.
I`m rambling now and my distaste of Obscuritanist ideology and culture is showing - so give me some feed back on these ideas.
Samina
First of all sorry for the late response - now to my opinion of male attitudes towrads sex, sexuality in Pakistani society: As you we discussed earlier I am convinced there is some sort of tremendous FEAR among men in Pakistani society about sex and sexuality - A fear of WOMEN.
I do not know how or when to locate it time or to a specific idea in our society (except to the ideology of the Obscuritanist - but that is all too easy and while valid, I don`t think it is satisfactory; in the general sense)
I do not understand the NEED to repress and do violence to women, as expressed in our society - and certainly the attitudes among men (entirely personal, non-scientific) are victorian, with a strong streak of the loathing of sex and sexualityand at the same time intense curiousity and attraction. Of course this means girls and women who even so much as exhibit the slightest idea that they enjoy the attraction or are attracted by the ``maleness`` or enjoy sex or the idea o sexuality are ``whores`` and such; a sort saint/slut paradigm that our repressed society seems to support. I think this supports the jelly like inside of men in our society when it comes to women - it seems we never outgrow our childhood; the women, our mothers, still holding together the fragileness of our ego, when it comes to sex. Where is that lovely Ms. Rizvi who used to write on Chowk?
I also think that this has some connection to our culture`s aggrandizment of the ``love`` as being a powerful, majestic wave that must crash and break against the immovable in society; a failure of love, of love being merely ``baazi`` instead of the ``aishk baazi`` as act one, scene one, in a long complicated journey of self discovery and ultimately self discipline; one and one make two before arriving at the proposition that one and one make one.
Do you not think that the entire concept of ``love`` and pair bonding is devalued in our society; especially among younger persons? Flirting, dating, love making are intensely attractive and will become increasing so, to the younger (and not necessarily confined to the younger) amongst us and I think our inablity, our society`s inability to rise to this need being felt in our society, will make us even more sick -what do you think?
These attitudes even reflect in clothes - in that awful heat - covered up head to toe, in volumes of cloth, wrapped up like some living dead - as if ``modesty`` as but one definition and interpretation - even the cultural prohition against shaking hands among some - it`s just really sick - just intense sexual awareness and just intense denial, as if it is possible.
I`m rambling now and my distaste of Obscuritanist ideology and culture is showing - so give me some feed back on these ideas.
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#130 Posted by roohi on July 11, 2002 4:33:14 am
tahmed,
Wicked !! I guess Ana was right about missiles and mango lassi - look what you are making of my perfectly innocent remark about makkhis ! Henceforth I shall heed scout and cease and desist.
Wicked !! I guess Ana was right about missiles and mango lassi - look what you are making of my perfectly innocent remark about makkhis ! Henceforth I shall heed scout and cease and desist.
#129 Posted by fawad79 on July 11, 2002 4:33:14 am
im a pharmacist, PharmD student more accurately i was just wondering why the hell i see so many rxs for prozac weakly?
PS DO US pharmacists a favor and write legibly thank you !!!!!!!!
PS DO US pharmacists a favor and write legibly thank you !!!!!!!!
#128 Posted by tahmed321 on July 8, 2002 2:24:37 pm
rooji #112 you write about ``tabboos are dropping like flies``.
Are these dropped flies as in ``pardon me, your fly is open``? If so, the Indian middle class is indeed letting it all hang out.
PS: Sorry Ansari buddy. Could resist this disgusting reference.
Are these dropped flies as in ``pardon me, your fly is open``? If so, the Indian middle class is indeed letting it all hang out.
PS: Sorry Ansari buddy. Could resist this disgusting reference.
#127 Posted by scout on July 8, 2002 2:24:37 pm
mrs. shah #99, ``Arre, where have you been?!``
busy moving and other stupid stuff like that...
``Look what I`ve had to deal with in your absence, and only Ana, aicha and Sadna as support! Ab kya karein?! I demand that you step in and set this board to order....start with Shankar please, it was his fault this whole thing started! (quicker than you can say ``makaar``!)``
why`d you guys let him stray you away from the path of delicate modesty so flattering to lovely desi women.....whyyyyy? i do not blame him for he is a man, member of the evil gender species whose lives revolve around sex and sexual baatein.
i will pray for you all and try to beg His forgiveness on your behalf.
busy moving and other stupid stuff like that...
``Look what I`ve had to deal with in your absence, and only Ana, aicha and Sadna as support! Ab kya karein?! I demand that you step in and set this board to order....start with Shankar please, it was his fault this whole thing started! (quicker than you can say ``makaar``!)``
why`d you guys let him stray you away from the path of delicate modesty so flattering to lovely desi women.....whyyyyy? i do not blame him for he is a man, member of the evil gender species whose lives revolve around sex and sexual baatein.
i will pray for you all and try to beg His forgiveness on your behalf.
#126 Posted by shankar on July 8, 2002 2:24:37 pm
12 head
#113
Just what the F was all that about? Serves me right for actually wasting my time to even read your post. I guess it would also be a waste of my time if I asked all your 12 heads to start talking to each other, rather than addressing any of your posts to me.
So please do continue to be an annoying kebab mein haddi on chowk, i`ll use the scroll bar, but please dont address any posts to me, ok?...like pretty please..with sugar on it?..if it makes you feel any better, i`ll even take a sip of cow urine..if you promise me you`ll quit chowk for good!
#113
Just what the F was all that about? Serves me right for actually wasting my time to even read your post. I guess it would also be a waste of my time if I asked all your 12 heads to start talking to each other, rather than addressing any of your posts to me.
So please do continue to be an annoying kebab mein haddi on chowk, i`ll use the scroll bar, but please dont address any posts to me, ok?...like pretty please..with sugar on it?..if it makes you feel any better, i`ll even take a sip of cow urine..if you promise me you`ll quit chowk for good!
#125 Posted by scout on July 8, 2002 2:24:37 pm
raveena #107, ``...your restraining order requires you be at least 1000 feet away from me in the real world, and at least 6 web sites away in cyberspace...that means you should be on yahoo or smt. right now...shoo...``
restraining order or not, i wouldn`t come within ten thousand feet of a moron like you....1000 to door ki baat hai...and as far as websites are concerned, you should stay away from this one out of shame since i continuously rip you apart.
very masochistic behavior...you know there are real live places you can go for that kind of stuff.
restraining order or not, i wouldn`t come within ten thousand feet of a moron like you....1000 to door ki baat hai...and as far as websites are concerned, you should stay away from this one out of shame since i continuously rip you apart.
very masochistic behavior...you know there are real live places you can go for that kind of stuff.
#124 Posted by shankar on July 8, 2002 2:24:37 pm
fawad,
{{whats your favorite SSRI ?
what do you rxibe the most........prozac weekly?}}
Why do you ask?, you want some?:)
I do rxibe a lot of prozac...the problem with prozac weekly is that it works very weakly:)
I use a lot of paxil..esp the new ``cr`` preparation. Glaxo-Wellcome (the maker of Paxil) has taken the trouble of getting FDA approval for the maximum # of psychiatric disorders, compared to the other SSRIs.
{{whats your favorite SSRI ?
what do you rxibe the most........prozac weekly?}}
Why do you ask?, you want some?:)
I do rxibe a lot of prozac...the problem with prozac weekly is that it works very weakly:)
I use a lot of paxil..esp the new ``cr`` preparation. Glaxo-Wellcome (the maker of Paxil) has taken the trouble of getting FDA approval for the maximum # of psychiatric disorders, compared to the other SSRIs.
#123 Posted by shankar on July 8, 2002 2:24:37 pm
shivsena,
{{must every post of yours contain a reference to the great rsaxena}}
Yo Bihari!! where the HELL have I ever made a reference to you on this thread?
Now that you mention it, you butthead, instead of writing one or two sentences about peoples` posts, have some BALLS & give your opinion about an issue,even if its controversial, for a change!
Wassamatter?! too scared of criticism, eh?
Seems like scouty has lopped off your balls so many times, that you have none left!
PS: yeah yeah..dont even try to deny it..youre a Bihari alright..at least you act like one...if you deny it, have the GUTS to tell us where you are from:))
{{must every post of yours contain a reference to the great rsaxena}}
Yo Bihari!! where the HELL have I ever made a reference to you on this thread?
Now that you mention it, you butthead, instead of writing one or two sentences about peoples` posts, have some BALLS & give your opinion about an issue,even if its controversial, for a change!
Wassamatter?! too scared of criticism, eh?
Seems like scouty has lopped off your balls so many times, that you have none left!
PS: yeah yeah..dont even try to deny it..youre a Bihari alright..at least you act like one...if you deny it, have the GUTS to tell us where you are from:))
#121 Posted by saminashah on July 8, 2002 2:24:37 pm
Dost Mittar,
Am reading a fasc. essay by Anne Carson entitled ``Dirt and Desire: Essay on the Phenomenolgy of Female Pollution in Antiquity``. Its from her first book called ``Men in the Off Hours``. I cannot tell you how excellent this book is. Will get back to you in the next two days.
Am reading a fasc. essay by Anne Carson entitled ``Dirt and Desire: Essay on the Phenomenolgy of Female Pollution in Antiquity``. Its from her first book called ``Men in the Off Hours``. I cannot tell you how excellent this book is. Will get back to you in the next two days.
#120 Posted by Ansari on July 8, 2002 2:24:37 pm
Saminashah,
“In the spirit of inquiry, could you explain why those jokes were distasteful to you?”
In the spirit of friendship, I thought they were immodest and unbecoming. There’s no deeper reason, no delectable arguments to quiet and subdue with the fiery weight of their worldly wisdom and the cunning rearrangement of their deceitful mockery into a gilded sword-edge. No. Just the simple unbreakable truth between friends.
“In the spirit of inquiry, could you explain why those jokes were distasteful to you?”
In the spirit of friendship, I thought they were immodest and unbecoming. There’s no deeper reason, no delectable arguments to quiet and subdue with the fiery weight of their worldly wisdom and the cunning rearrangement of their deceitful mockery into a gilded sword-edge. No. Just the simple unbreakable truth between friends.
#119 Posted by saminashah on July 8, 2002 2:24:37 pm
Tahmed, Romair, Hydra
Have you noticed that, judging from the three of your posts I cannot win?
Tahmed
No, I wasnt hoping that some poor ``sucker`` would take the ``bait`` -there is actually a code that is being transmitted by these jokes; a code with the insider view, the reference points, values and fantasies of a culture/gender/class//ideology; esp. with this joke. My friend, this is not the chicken crossed the road to get to the other side universality. Youre usually quick on the uptake with this; however, if choose not to participate, thats cool as well.
Romair,
Pakistani WOMEN DO discuss these matters sometimes with men and they ARE self respecting. Please explain why you claim otherwise.
Rsax
If I do hone a stage act, you`ll be the first to know....we should have a Chowk improv night....we each imitate another Chowkie for a day....officially anyway...
Hydra
The 10 Movements of the Hydra
1. Tries to get someone, anyone to agree with any of his opinions; will often change opinions to get attention- ``Look at me, LOOKATME!`` seems to be the subtext.
2. Tries to manipulate other interactors by pretending to be female/male/Muslim/Hindu/Doctor/Engineer/Teacher characters. Uses a variety of nicks, but always fails because the language and depth of thought each nick uses is consistant.
3. Will try to insinuate himself into other interactor`s conversations even if it means flirting with a competitor (as a female nick, of course)
4. Doesnt know who he is....Hates the values of the West, but LIVES there! Claims to have Christian, Jewish, Black friends, BUT THINKS THEY ARE MISLEAD FROM ALLAH!
5. Is an idiotic mix of nosy, insinuating, eyewinking and innocent. Posts alot of poems on friendship once he has annoyed another interactor to enraged levels.
okay, I`m too bored to even finish writing this list....later....
Have you noticed that, judging from the three of your posts I cannot win?
Tahmed
No, I wasnt hoping that some poor ``sucker`` would take the ``bait`` -there is actually a code that is being transmitted by these jokes; a code with the insider view, the reference points, values and fantasies of a culture/gender/class//ideology; esp. with this joke. My friend, this is not the chicken crossed the road to get to the other side universality. Youre usually quick on the uptake with this; however, if choose not to participate, thats cool as well.
Romair,
Pakistani WOMEN DO discuss these matters sometimes with men and they ARE self respecting. Please explain why you claim otherwise.
Rsax
If I do hone a stage act, you`ll be the first to know....we should have a Chowk improv night....we each imitate another Chowkie for a day....officially anyway...
Hydra
The 10 Movements of the Hydra
1. Tries to get someone, anyone to agree with any of his opinions; will often change opinions to get attention- ``Look at me, LOOKATME!`` seems to be the subtext.
2. Tries to manipulate other interactors by pretending to be female/male/Muslim/Hindu/Doctor/Engineer/Teacher characters. Uses a variety of nicks, but always fails because the language and depth of thought each nick uses is consistant.
3. Will try to insinuate himself into other interactor`s conversations even if it means flirting with a competitor (as a female nick, of course)
4. Doesnt know who he is....Hates the values of the West, but LIVES there! Claims to have Christian, Jewish, Black friends, BUT THINKS THEY ARE MISLEAD FROM ALLAH!
5. Is an idiotic mix of nosy, insinuating, eyewinking and innocent. Posts alot of poems on friendship once he has annoyed another interactor to enraged levels.
okay, I`m too bored to even finish writing this list....later....
#118 Posted by saminashah on July 8, 2002 2:24:37 pm
Tahmed, Romair, Hydra
Have you noticed that, judging from the three of your posts I cannot win?
Tahmed
No, I wasnt hoping that some poor ``sucker`` would take the ``bait`` -there is actually a code that is being transmitted by these jokes; a code with the insider view, the reference points, values and fantasies of a culture/gender/class//ideology; esp. with this joke. My friend, this is not the chicken crossed the road to get to the other side universality. Youre usually quick on the uptake with this; however, if choose not to participate, thats cool as well.
Romair,
Pakistani WOMEN DO discuss these matters sometimes with men and they ARE self respecting. Please explain why you claim otherwise.
Rsax
If I do hone a stage act, you`ll be the first to know....we should have a Chowk improv night....we each imitate another Chowkie for a day....officially anyway...
Hydra
The 10 Movements of the Hydra
1. Tries to get someone, anyone to agree with any of his opinions; will often change opinions to get attention- ``Look at me, LOOKATME!`` seems to be the subtext.
2. Tries to manipulate other interactors by pretending to be female/male/Muslim/Hindu/Doctor/Engineer/Teacher characters. Uses a variety of nicks, but always fails because the language and depth of thought each nick uses is consistant.
3. Will try to insinuate himself into other interactor`s conversations even if it means flirting with a competitor (as a female nick, of course)
4. Doesnt know who he is....Hates the values of the West, but LIVES there! Claims to have Christian, Jewish, Black friends, BUT THINKS THEY ARE MISLEAD FROM ALLAH!
5. Is an idiotic mix of nosy, insinuating, eyewinking and innocent. Posts alot of poems on friendship once he has annoyed another interactor to enraged levels.
okay, I`m too bored to even finish writing this list....later....
Have you noticed that, judging from the three of your posts I cannot win?
Tahmed
No, I wasnt hoping that some poor ``sucker`` would take the ``bait`` -there is actually a code that is being transmitted by these jokes; a code with the insider view, the reference points, values and fantasies of a culture/gender/class//ideology; esp. with this joke. My friend, this is not the chicken crossed the road to get to the other side universality. Youre usually quick on the uptake with this; however, if choose not to participate, thats cool as well.
Romair,
Pakistani WOMEN DO discuss these matters sometimes with men and they ARE self respecting. Please explain why you claim otherwise.
Rsax
If I do hone a stage act, you`ll be the first to know....we should have a Chowk improv night....we each imitate another Chowkie for a day....officially anyway...
Hydra
The 10 Movements of the Hydra
1. Tries to get someone, anyone to agree with any of his opinions; will often change opinions to get attention- ``Look at me, LOOKATME!`` seems to be the subtext.
2. Tries to manipulate other interactors by pretending to be female/male/Muslim/Hindu/Doctor/Engineer/Teacher characters. Uses a variety of nicks, but always fails because the language and depth of thought each nick uses is consistant.
3. Will try to insinuate himself into other interactor`s conversations even if it means flirting with a competitor (as a female nick, of course)
4. Doesnt know who he is....Hates the values of the West, but LIVES there! Claims to have Christian, Jewish, Black friends, BUT THINKS THEY ARE MISLEAD FROM ALLAH!
5. Is an idiotic mix of nosy, insinuating, eyewinking and innocent. Posts alot of poems on friendship once he has annoyed another interactor to enraged levels.
okay, I`m too bored to even finish writing this list....later....
#117 Posted by temporal on July 8, 2002 2:11:49 pm
roohi 112:
[…Don`t know about Pakistan ... what`s the word?…]
…same, same…can you believe in the land of the believers…the extremes of the society totem pole are equally wild, crazy and decadent….
…the overwhelming majority though (in both places) are non-experimental, unimaginative, laid back (no pun), definitely not decadent, morbid, and passive….and since i can do without hurled abuse…will add…`mostly` to the previous observation :)…hope this helps your research…are you writing a paper or a book?…merely enquiring…
lve,
t
ps:
samm: chuckled at your ‘spirit of inquiry’
pps:
shankar 101:
yaar when did I ever criticize the spelling errors in ‘inter-acts’?…go ahead and post all you want as an inter-act…now...no promises if you decide to do an article…all bets are off then…
[…Don`t know about Pakistan ... what`s the word?…]
…same, same…can you believe in the land of the believers…the extremes of the society totem pole are equally wild, crazy and decadent….
…the overwhelming majority though (in both places) are non-experimental, unimaginative, laid back (no pun), definitely not decadent, morbid, and passive….and since i can do without hurled abuse…will add…`mostly` to the previous observation :)…hope this helps your research…are you writing a paper or a book?…merely enquiring…
lve,
t
ps:
samm: chuckled at your ‘spirit of inquiry’
pps:
shankar 101:
yaar when did I ever criticize the spelling errors in ‘inter-acts’?…go ahead and post all you want as an inter-act…now...no promises if you decide to do an article…all bets are off then…
#116 Posted by rsaxena on July 7, 2002 10:13:08 pm
re: shrinker
...quack, must every post of yours contain a reference to the great rsaxena?...does rsaxena drop you on your head in your nightmares?...
...quack, must every post of yours contain a reference to the great rsaxena?...does rsaxena drop you on your head in your nightmares?...
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