Coney Al Jazeera

shankar bhai,

i`m not a prude :(

scout,

UKP is ullu ka patha?!! Jeezuz..what an anti-climax! They way you sounded bashful, I thought...FINALLY! she gave a REAL gali!!

try a REAL gaali once in a while...dont worry , you may reach heaven a few seconds late..but damnit..its worth it!!:)

What is it with you?..its like teasing Allah...I`m banking on the fact that HE isnt a prude & has a sense of humor:)

Allah,

Almighty , I know You read Chowk messages...please tell her, I`m right:)

anNy jaan...twist my arm why don`t you?!

well since you asked...with apologies to the rest of the mehfil :-)

To ek dafa`h ka zikr hai:-

My youngest brother and I were gathered around our Ammi. Chota bhai hasbe maa`mool Ammi ko tang kar raha tha..chutkiyan beshumaar waghera. Finally a laughing, yet frustrated Ammi affectionately scolded him in Urdu

Digression..Background..

Ever since we moved back to America in the late `70`s, my brother, who is the only unfortunate (!) one of us to be born in the US, stopped speaking Urdu altogether. Any time one of us tried, he pretended not to understand, when I know far too well, from all the time he used to hang around Mali, and other guys who worked in the workshop in our neighborhood, the extent of his Urdu and possibly Punjabi!

Back to the story..

Ammi scolded him in Urdu. I, agent provacateuse, that I am, said, `But wait, he doesn`t speak or understand Urdu, or do you?` Hasbe maa`mool, chote sahib ignored me. So then I said, well let`s see if you understand these, phir mein ne woh gaaliyan ka list diya, `g----oo, choootiya, woh ma behen ki gaaliyan, and perhaps a few choice others. The whole time I was spouting out this litany, Ammi was half screaming, half laughing, closing her ears, demanding that I stop. My brother`s eyes were gleaming, and he was grinning. I knew that he understood every word I said. Ammi said, `Where did you learn those words?` To which I responded, `Not in this house!`

That`s it, anNy jaan..the boring anticlimatic tale :-)

``but I won`t bore y`all with it. :-)``

bore, bore..you must :0)

Temporal, Ana

First G - could be as you suggest - but it`s not ``GG Hona`` - Its ``GG1 hona`` as in ``aik``?

PS to my last post...not that I`m implying that there`s a gaali involved in GG hona but that I`m not even supposed to be aware of, or use those lovely colorful phrases referring to anatomical parts..unlike the late Malika-e-Tarannum, who for those prim and proper (!) and/or pious (!!) folks might also be known as Malika-e-Besharam (no disrespect intended on my part for the deceased).

And here those `cojones` that Scoutness refers to come into play again..I can only suspect that one of the g`s refers to g---d (scout, I`m cojonless here, I can`t possibly say this word in this majlis!), but perhaps I`m mistaken?!?!!!!

scout... Cajones, and moi? puhleeze! ;)

And I`m afraid I`m ignorant of the GG1 hona `phrase` myself. According to my saintly mother, I`m not supposed to know all the gaalis I DO know..and I`m definitely not supposed to use them! Ummm, reminds me of a personal anecdote where I shocked Ammi by my `small` litany of Punjabi/urdu gaaliyan, but I won`t bore y`all with it. :-)

Temporal

you heard for the first time a while ago? Thank you very little - I`m working on it. And you say it`s fun?

fawad

``akash:

``do you find latinas at bars or at clubs?``

Oh no, dear. She was my classmate.

hobbyty #270:

[...ana, temporal, Scout, banjara...and YOU guys owe me big - what kind of fun UKP? give me something fun...]

...you serious?...ok here is one GG1...this is used in urdu when describing an uphill or laborious task being undertaken by some...bet this will keep you busy for a few minutes;)...


(background notes)

...heard GG1 (Gee gee one) hona first time ever from my then friend dr. arshad zaman when he was a young clean shaven bank/fund career officer in d.c....have lost contact with him when he returned to pakistan...and was shocked to see his picture in TFT couple of weeks back in a lead article by khaled ahmed...this fellow has a yard long beard and is chairman of the council of islamic idealogy or something and khaled quoted him in that article...

rgds,

t

ana, temporal, Scout, banjara

It did not occur to me - what a anticlimax - and you guys were being so coy - I thought it`s got to be something juicy, naugty, fun - instead its ulla ka phath - still, its been a while since I`ive heard that My apologies to all of you and YOU guys owe me big - what kind of fun UKP? give me something fun

ana #268,

you go girl. no one else had the cajones to say it ;)

ooof...the suspense and the non-comprehension is killing me, and since I am definitely not as poetic minded as dost-mittar, nor as intelligent as tahmed ji...I will just come out and say it..

Hobbyty..UKP is a ullu ka pattha!

any further translations or hints needed? tho i think temporal did quite well :-)

Banjara

OK - UKP , lets see - U=ullo, K=?, P=?

Now this is too much work for the likes of me - and entirely to slow, painfully and why so coy?

This had better be beyond good.

hobbyty # 263

[What kind of clue is, `disciple of Wise ``bird``?]

This verse might help:)

Barbaad gulistaN karne ko

bus ek hi ulloo kaafi tha

Her shaakh pe ulloo baitha hai

anjaam-e- gulistaN kya hoga

Regards.

hobbyty #263:

...are you familiar with urdu/hindi?...have a suspicion you are not very familiar with either or you would have caught onto scoutty`s mild rebukes...translation in english will not convey the original intent...it falls flat...

rgds,

t

Pankaj # 259

Yes.

Regards.

Fawad

Did Judaism end, did Christianity? Does faith end, Can God`s mercy ever end?

SaminaShah

My condolences for your loss. Anger and despair are no substitute for reason. Please be assured of my good will and please do take the following in a constructive manner, I mean no disrepect or injury. To what degree were/are these women in the episode you recounted responsible for the way they are treated by ``their`` men? Which Imam or which man can stop anyone who wants to at the grave of her father??? When will women realize that respect and freedom are not commodities that are given to anybody, rather they assumed. As I write these lines I am conscious that you may feel very close to this incident and may find an injury in words - sincerely, I regret it if you will. I mean no injury.

``truth`` as journey was to suggest method - that`s all and I am sorry for your loss and for your experience of disregard.

My father passed away on a mediterrean island and the hospital insisted that they would remove his viscera - the anger rose in me such that had not the hospital staff stepped in, the administrator and I would have been involved in a physical altercation. I contacted the Islamic society in the city I was living in the US, they arranged a place, they assited me with all the papers to bring my father`s body to the US, they arranged the namaz and the viewing and a multitude of cars follwed the hearse to the cemetery and offered prayers to God to forgive and accept his creature. How beautiful was my father. Now, I am neither a namazi or a Masjid going type nor did I ever met any of these persons - I knew none there other than my family members. On the island my father passed away, his body was washed by his neighbor and friend who was also a shaikh - I needed clearnces from American embassy, a fortress like structure. The Counsul could not have been more understanding, more sympathetic. He it turned out had family who were also Muslims. In this experience I met persons for the first time in my life who convinced me of the hatred some felt towards Muslims (an idea of which I can say that I was completely unaware of. It never occured to me that I would experience it) and on the other hand I met so many, many compassionate persons who did not ask for money, they did not ask me to set up an appointment - they simply helped me as a fellow Muslim who needed this help, out of their conviction and of their understanding of a human and religious obligation. Sabr, don`t let bitterness come to your heart. My young sister who I imagine is about your age, was a DJ for a radio show on this island and for the hearing of whose voice, my father resisted and kept death at bay, could not attend her fathers funeral, she was not elegible for a visa. Allah has a plan for each of his creatures and in the most testing of times, we can be assured that He carries us in palm of His hand.

temporal

What kind of clue is, `disciple of Wise ``bird``?

now that I am one (UKP) and since the anticipation has built up - whatever this is, it had better be good.

tahmed ji! Clearly you are more intelligent than I am, because I haven`t the slightest clue what you meant, although I`m sure that you do, having said it and meant it in a slightly different way, and so I will leave you to your secret knowledge which at the risk of repeating myself, does make you an intelligent man. I feel that I should explain or defend what I meant in that little snippet that you responded to, but being the more intelligent person that you are, you do know what I meant, and I did say what I meant, and suddenly this intelligent conversation is making me dizzy, so I will just zip my lips for now. Thank you!

PS. Just out of curiosity..what is wrong with desi men talking about black girls? I mean aren`t they girls just like me, and the other girls that men talk about? Have I just stepped on dangerous ground?!? (I think I know what you meant, but your remark has reminded me of arguments I`ve had with desi men..and they don`t sound very intelligent!)

scout #253 ``can someone tell hobbyty bhaiyya what UKP is``

I would if I could.

ana #248 ``those enlightened desi bandas (not bandars) who actually say what they mean and mean what they say, and they actually come across as being intelligent.``

I always say what I mean. At least I try to make it look that way, because I actually mean something slightly, not completely, different from what I say. If you know what I mean. Although I hope you dont know what I mean because if you do you are more intelligent than I am. And I am trying hard to sound more intelligent than at least one or two people on chowk and so far the only one I have found less intelligent than me is Jay and he doesnt count since he is a desi bandar. I will then be just another washed out desi guy who spends his life talking about white girls and brown girls and yellow girls (not black girls though, pritty pliz, because we are desi men) even after they have grown old enough to hit double digits in terms of years from birth. I will now shut up and listen. Thank you.

Scout,

re: where does one find such men?

Arre, you`re asking me???!!! If you should ever come across one..or a group of them, send me word via a mota kabootar and I will be haazir! They seem to have disappeared from my neck of the woods.

akash:

do you find latinas at bars or at clubs?

sax

whats up with those scandanvian chicks ???????? used to date a german theyre despite being european are prudish the one i dated wouldnt even drink i was like whose the muslim me or you? partied with a finnish chick once gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!

Banjara#239

``ambwa ki daliyoN pe jhulna jhula ja

Ab ke sawan tau sajan ghar aa ja

``

Banjara jee, you never cease to amaze me. These lines are in typical central UP dialect. Ek baat bataiye Banjara jee, kyaa aap abhee tak yeh bolee achchi tarah se bol lete haiN..

Temporal,

Like Mrs. Ashfaq Munir`s Resentment a lot. The recliner and its halo of contentment/cushy throne, tv guide was a nice metaphor. Have you been following this couple in your poems beside this one? Would like to read more!

Hobbyty

re: ``...Save me $12 and just email it to me - if that`s possible....``

I`d be glad to. How would I get a mailing address?

re:``...- I am unsettled by the proposition that we may make definitive statements about these, especially since I don`t think these by definition are amenable to such. Also what we may find and construe to be ``pretty much the same story`` is actually superficial - perhaps it is the journey and the elusive destination that we might understand ``truth`` to be?

Perhaps you are unsettled because underneath the ephemeral and mystical phenomena of spirituality, there are the hard and cold eco/soc/pol/gend/cul realities that cannot be wafted away in ``god`` smoke. Let me give you an everyday example:

Quite recently my uncle died unexpectedly. We were besides ourselves, particularly because we are quite close to his family and secondly, he died the morning of his younger daughter`s wedding, while he was praying. You can imagine the pain this situation caused for the daughters, mother/wife and family, the dillemmas that arouse immediately afterwards in terms of appropriate plans of the daughter`s wedding, and mourning.

At the prayer service of his funeral at an Islamic center in Queens, the women crowded into our small room and read the Q`uran and waited to hear from the men when they would begin prayers, most particularly my uncle`s eldest daughter who was (admirably and maturely) shouldering the organization of directing the women and who wanted to pray for her father.

20 minutes later we get word that the men have prayed and its time to go to the cemetary. No one from the men`s section thought it was imp. enough to inform the women who wanted to pray as well that they had begun their (and is it the ``official`` prayer, being that men call the time?) namaz. We were a bit upset that we did not have the opportunity to pray for our uncle, but there you are; the journey for truth.

When we got to the cemetary, the women stayed on the outskirts of the grave (several feet away) while the men gathered around the grave. The men brought my uncle`s body to the grave and the men started to pray. I stayed on the outskirts because I knew that women were not allowed to be at the gravesite, supposedly because women crying at a graveside causes pain for the deceased party? In essence, women are considered a polluting and emotional entity and therefore are culturally prohibited (in this Pakistani interpretation) from being a part of the the burial service. My aunty stayed with us on the outskirts while her husband was being buried.

As we listened to the prayers of the men, we heard some women voices. Apparently my cousins had insisted on being at their father`s/Mamu`s grave and praying, despite the Mullah Sanib`s directions for them to leave the area.

The women and many men in our family think that the daughters and nieces who read at the grave are to be commended for their action. A few conservative members have opined that it was not appropriate and whats more, will cause my deceased uncle pain and all kinds of hocus pocus complications in the afterlife.

My point is, before we discuss spiritual journeys and quests for truth, we must discuss who has access to these journeys and what kind of interpretation enforces the cultural mores of the practice of religion. We must examine the day to day manifestations of how religion works in terms of gender-the ultimate division of humankind. IF women are barred from the ceremonies of death and other sites of spiritual practice, really, how can this be considered a ``superficial`` matter?

Looking forward to your response.

``

Scout

Thnks you I`m working on not being as fragile - now, I take it that I`m a UKP? Well, Ok, I have been lots of other things BUT It would help to know what is this UKP thing.

re: scout #253:

[...can someone tell hobbyty bhaiyya what UKP is...]

...am sure he will get it upon some reflection...but just in case...here is a hint for unravelling the acronym...try saying the disciple of a wise `bird` in urdu...

...t

re: akash

{latinas are more humble,polite and willing to experiment.}

...i may regret asking, but what kind of experiments do u mean?...hehe

can someone tell hobbyty bhaiyya what UKP is....i don`t have the heart to tell him....

ana,

where does one find such men?

fawad,

nothing to be bitter about muffin

shankar bhai,

if you show up in a thong, i`ll show up in a burkha. deal?

Fawad,

re: what is life w.o love.

True, so true. But then again, my favorite poet Faiz in his classic `Mujhse pehli si mohabbat mere mehboob na maang..` says, `Aur bhi dukh hain zamane main mohabbat ke siwa...`

To translate a common Urdu phrase into English..`the fruit of patience is sweet.` :-)

Scout

What are UKP`s?

scout..but then there are those rarities..those enlightened desi bandas (not bandars) who actually say what they mean and mean what they say, and they actually come across as being intelligent. But how often do we find such gems at these soirees? *grin *

re :

``idiotic desi men`` ---?????????

damn yo .......ur bitter

Fawad

``this is for all the guys my age why is that maybe its just me i have a hard time hookin up with white chicks ?????????????

``

Why white chicks only!! Give brown chicks, latinas too a chance :). Some time back, I dated a very cute latina from Columbia. It might sound like a generalization, but latinas are more humble,polite and willing to experiment. These days I am going out with an ABD:)

PS Chinese girls from the mainland are the only ones I find unbearable. They stink!!! yes literally. They eat some disgusting things that smell very strongly. American born Chinese are more polished. Saxena would agree with me :)



PPS If you wanna know abt Scandinavian girls, then consult Saxena.

scouty,

{{if shankar bhai is willing to dress up as a woman and wear red hot lipstick, i don`t see why we couldn`t invite him...}}

yeah...keep it up, hon & I`ll gatecrash your coffee clutch wearing just a thong...

i used to moonlight as a chip`n dale dancer...

saxena,

{{...sure, but i doubt i`ll be much help with the chicks...}}

first you show a glimmer of conscience; now honesty...DAMN!! this is NOT going to help our friendship any...

Read and quit weeping - It`s high time something is done - Destroy feudalism and most especially destroy Obscuritanism - Of special notice to all readers - Anglo-saxon or Western concepts of Human Rights have no conflict with conception of such rights in Islam - but of course, they do in Obscuritanist Islam. Obscrutanism is a religion in it`s own right and is not Islam - This is my testimony.

From The Friday Times:

``In which country are women who have been raped liable to be charged with adultery and stoned to death in punishment?

In which country are women liable to be publicly gang-raped on the orders of “democratic” village community organizations like jirgas and panchayats in revenge for alleged crimes committed by male members of their families and clans?

In which country are young girls criminally assaulted by deranged, perverted or powerful individuals as a matter of routine and condemned to live a “shameful” lie in silence?

In which country are women killed to avenge the perceived “honour” of their male relatives, tribes, clans, village elders, and influential families even though they may not have committed any crime?

In which country are women defaced and deformed by frustrated, “acid-throwing” maniacs?

In which country are women burnt alive in “stove explosions” engineered by enraged in-laws, husbands, brothers and fathers?

In which country do judges clutch at medieval notions of dishonour, inequality, piety and even religiosity to punish and demean women?

In which country are state and society predisposed against women?

If the answers are shameful and embarrassing, we should do something about it. If it is hurtful to see the foreign media washing our filthy linen in public, we should put an end to our dirty practices. If we are appalled by such brutality, we should protest vehemently. If we are aghast at such injustice, we should institutionalize punishments for crimes against women. If our laws are misplaced or discriminatory, we should change them.

Women constitute more than half the population of Pakistan. Yet they are more illiterate, downtrodden, oppressed and exploited than any other section of society. This is a blot on our country’s face; a blot that all the nuclear or nationalist “honour” in the world will not efface. The irony is all the greater when it is lost on our leaders. In an interview some time ago with the National Geographic magazine on the subject of women’s oppression in the context of “honour killings”, General Pervez Musharraf was asked by the foreign interviewer why nothing had been done to alleviate the plight of women in Pakistan. Pat came the answer: “We don’t have the money for alleviating poverty and eradicating illiteracy and backwardness”. “But you have the money for nuclear weapons and missiles”, retorted the devious foreigner. “Yes”, said the simple soldier, “we need nuclear weapons and conventional weapons and missiles in order to live honourably”. Should General Musharraf ever get round to watching that anguished documentary, he might look out for the gleam in the interviewer’s eye. It indicts the country and convicts its leader.

Much the same sentiment can and should be expressed regarding some so-called “Islamic” laws that are demonstrably unjust and also give a bad name to Pakistan. We refer, in particular, to the blasphemy law that has been the subject of so much mischief in the name of a great and just religion. Alleged blasphemers are punished by enraged mobs. They rot in prisons or are killed awaiting trial. They are assassinated inside and outside the courts. Judges dare not acquit them. And self-avowed reformers like General Musharraf don’t have the courage of their convictions to revamp such laws. Why, then, are we surprised by the condemnation of the world when a miscarriage of justice concerning some masih or the other is splashed on television screens and some of Pakistan’s murderous laws and cultural practices are displayed in all their gory details?

Pakistan is stretched on a historical rack, an arm and a leg in antiquity and barbarism, an arm and a leg in modernity and civilisation. Old notions of sovereignty, statecraft, politics, power, patronage, despotism, honour, religion and culture vie with modern symbols of globalisation, electoral democracy, constitutionalism, accountability, civil society, gender equality, professionalism, competitiveness and universal literacy. Historic Islamic strictures contradict post-colonial Anglo-Saxon structures. Unable to find a mutuality of interests between these two streams of thought and behaviour, society is inclined to descend into a feisty confrontation between the two. As the pace of life quickens under the impact of the new world order, large swathes of state and society are uprooted and dispersed. The job of the modern prince is to channel this energy into a productive, stable and assimilated nationhood. But tragically Pakistan has lacked leaders of substance or vision.``

shankar # 192:

After reading your post, I realize that you have absolutely no idea what America is about. What is SO GREAT about Americans if they are ``most unprejudiced humans`` only IF you adapt to their culture?

Next time you invite your American friends make such a statement to them and watch for their reaction? I suspect that they will think that is one of the MOST INSULTING statement one could make about them yet they would probably assume that they themselves are missing some `cultural aspect` of that STUPID statement and give you a benefit of doubt. That`s what is great about Americans. They tolerate stupidity. But seriously, as much as you (immigrant) adapt to America, America adapts to you. I know at least 5-6 pucca American guys who make better beef curry than I do. Those guys would have been really pissed-off if all of us Indians really adapted well and started eating ribs instead of curry. And there is this veggi gori I know, who can`t stand my sight because she thinks I am bit `TOO adapted` and actually am a fake Indian. You can`t please everybody. Pop Psychology 101: Be yourself.

Your post is based on lot of assumptions. As a true-blooded uncle Tom, I am sure you know what they say about making assumptions.

Regarding gender segregation in desi parties, I have two things to say to you:

1. Next time you just go to women’s section along with your wife. You will fit right in ... what`s with your match-making skills and ability to answer back with lot of unrelated things.

2. You must hang out with lot of old farts.

Regarding your `glee` that your daughter has only (or majority) white friends ... I know lot of desi parents who think that `not having desi friends` is some kind of achievement. Now go look for the definition of ``prejudice``. Pathetic, Old fools.

Do I sense a ``Konkani Complexion`` pride in you? I don`t know whether it is coincidence or not, but all the `KOBRA` chicks I came across were absolutely stunning.

BTW, your Kashmir position sux!!

ETERNAL TALES



hey koi khareedar?
achchaa maal , lay lo!
achchaa maal, sasta lay lo!




yeh madd-o-jaz`r zindagi kay
life, love, loving
(aur simmering)
subterranean constraints
almost imperceptible, lurking
in their tenuous hold
their master`s
dreams, desires
(nightmares, she says!)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

high noon in a dark church
(the first in the Caribbean, sir)
no worshippers,
peace and silence
pregnant with pride of past devotees
flaking stone slabs permeating devotion
aisay hee guzray sajdouN ki baaz-gasht
shaaer-r-mashriq nay shayad suni hogi
musjid-e-qurtuba kay sukooN ko
darham kartay hu`aye.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

in the marketplace
of life, love, living
idols and ideals
competing for (market) share
freedom and choices aplenty
horns blaring
here
`my man, my god
comes with better warranty`
and there
`listen one and all
your salvation lies
with my man, my god`

amidst this freedom (cacophony?)
appears constraint again
and life, love, living
and death
goes on...

---30---

aamir, ana, kiran, shireen, samina, dost, AnNy, ferz:

this is the one i promised...hope you`d enjoy...after this would post another one that is `under` progress...critical bashing welcome:)...

lve,

t

________________________________________________



BEGUM ASHFAQ MUNIR KI B’RHAMI
____________________________________________

9:30 p.m.

B’rahmi
Aabshaar-e-Niagara pur girti roshniouN ki maanind
Begum Ashfaq Munir kay shafaaf chehray pur
girti, mit’ti rahi
aur Janab Ashfaq Munir
apni aaramdah koorsi pur
apnay hee halay maiN
dhaltay rahay.


SAAT-E-WAQ’FA-E-ISHTIHAAR

Nigha-haiN Janab ki
kartiN tawaaf
kamray ka ...
konay maiN rakha ghareyloo pouda
deewar pur saja’aye khaakay
ad’h bhari khaakdaan
zair-e-paa guzray lamhouN ki khabraiN
paas rakhi
sard, aah bharti chai ki piyali
aur Begum ...
is waqfay maiN
TV Guide kay rosh’naiee aalooda
lafzouN ko Qur’aan ki tarah paRRhtiiN
hijjay aur ta’laffooz d’roost
ma’anay aur mafhoom na’aashna.


MAA’MOOL

Bees jama dus saal hu’aye
wohi maa’mool
pir-juma gardish-e-nau-paanch
oothay, naha’aye, naashta kya, bag saNbhali
aur jaa’tay jaa’tay
ooper walay ki amaan maaNgi
kabhi zabaani, kabhi eesharay say
aur daftar say giyara aur teen bajay
phoni istifsaar .....

...aur waapsi pur
hasb-e-zaroorat, ya hasb-e-farmaish
doodh, anday, aspro, sa’boon,
laundry waghera
laytay hu’aye ghar lotna
khaamooshi say khana khana
shaam ka akhbar paRRhna phir
ik shaan-e-bay-nayazi say pooch’naa
‘tum theek ho naa’ aur
‘koi khabar?’


9:45 p.m.

Aur phir
apni aaramdah koorsi par
TV kay samnay....
Laikin aaj
Begum Ashfaq Munir
pichlay dinouN, maheenouN, saalouN
say kuch ziyadah hi b’rhum
nazar aati theeN.

Waqfay aatay rahay
aur hala-zun Janab Ashfaq Munir
joos’tu’joo-e-asbaab-e-br’humi-e-Begum
maiN rahay ghota-zun.

Fik’r oonhouN nay
kisi oonchay minar say
naachti hu’ee tez roshniouN ki maanind
idhar oodhar doRRai.
Laikin Begum ki munjamid br’hami ka raaz
koiee faraari qaidi tou na thaa
jo oonki fikri roshnioN ki zud maiN aajata.


11:00 p.m.

TV prograam khat’m hu’a
Janab nay daaNt maaNjhay
Begum nay bhee
aur donouN nay shub khair say guzarnay ki
thaki thaki khaahishoiuN ka
dabay dabay andaaz maiN izhar kiya
aur peeth say peeth mila kar
lait ga’aye.
______________________________________



MRS. ASHFAQ MUNIR’S RESENTMENT


9:30 p.m.

Resentment played
like the lights aimed at Niagara’s Falls
upon the smooth face of Mrs. Ashfaq Munir
and Mr. Ashfaq Munir
wriggled and settled
in the self created halo
of his recliner.


DURING COMMERCIAL BREAK

His intense gaze
would circle the room ...
the house plant in the corner
sketches on the walls
half filled ashtray
beside his feet
yesterday’s news
on the side table
once sighingly hot
now cool tea
and the Missus.....
Missus who in this break
would pick up the TV Guide
and stare intently at its words
reading it Qur’an like
understanding meaning
nor intent.


ROUTINE

Since over a score plus ten years
the same routine
Monday to Friday - nine to five
wake up, shower, breakfast,
pick up brief case and mumble good-byes
and
from the office at eleven and three
mandatory phone calls ...

And on the way back
occasionally some chores ---
milk, eggs, Tylenol,
laundry, detergent etc.....
then a quite dinner
scanning the evening news
and nonchalantly enquiring
‘how was your day’ and
‘any news?’


9:45 p.m.

And then
wriggling himself in the recliner
in front of the TV....
but today
Mrs. Ashfaq Munir
appeared more resentful
then past days, months, years.

Commercial breaks came and went
and Mr. Ashfaq Munir
ensconced in his halo in the recliner
wondered over her resentment.

His thoughts
like the lights beamed from a high tower
fell here and there on the ground.
But her resentment
(tattooed on her facial skin)
was unlike an escaped prisoner
to be frozen in its glare.


11:00 p.m.

TV viewing ended
they brushed their teeth
exchanged inaudible good-nights
turned off lights
and back to back
they laid themselves down.

-----30----

dost-mittar # 230

I wonder if you ever heard Iqbal Bano singing this

beautiful thumri:

ambwa ki daliyoN pe jhulna jhula ja

Ab ke sawan tau sajan ghar aa ja

or Begum Akhtar singing:

Cha rahi kaali ghata,Jiya mora lahraay hai

Regards.

Dear Chowkies, Chowk Editors

As a fellow interactor and Internet user, I want to bring up a problem I am having with my email. You see, a particularly pathetic specimen of human being has been sending me emails with virus attachments for some months now. Here is an example of an email I received today:

``Sent: 7/15/2002 6:22:09 PM

Subject: A new game

Hi,This is a special new game

This game is my first work.

You`re the first player.

I hope you would enjoy it.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *



Say hello to your mother for me!

---``

(Notice the incorrect usage of the modal ``would``. Wanker, you don`t need to use ``would`` for the future tense. Study your grammar before you go around releasing your pissant magic. Bechara gaddha ka bacha, look it up in a dictionary)

Now I have reason to believe that the author of this email is a wanker who interacts or reads the Chowk interacts. This email was sent with an attachment that probably contains nothing or not suprisingly, the cyber version of a veneral disease said wanker apparently suffers from in real life. And now he`s trying to pass it on.

Why this affects you dear Chowkies, is because I am friends with several of y`all and we exchange emails. I`m afraid 1. that wanker wallah is trying to unload a virus on me, and subsequently y`all or 2. these emails are all smoke and mirrors and I`d like to know if other Chowkies are receiving emails similar to this one.

Much as I would like to introduce said wanker to the posterior opening of his alimentary canal via his mouth, I realize that I have other steps to take. He`ll get his karma, legally. Meanwhile, I ask y`all to be careful with your email, notify Chowk editors that this person is apparently targetting Chowkies for his cyber viruses and use one of our boards to discuss this matter, if possible.

cheers!

saminashah,

if shankar bhai is willing to dress up as a woman and wear red hot lipstick, i don`t see why we couldn`t invite him...

ana #216 ``I actually stopped going to `desi` parties because of the gendered division. Everytime I would go, men log wahan, women log yahan...``

the question is, would you even want to sit with idiotic desi men? i swear most of them are UKP`s.

re ana

thanks aunty i do need to relax but im not looking for just a hook up just a nice person a significant other what is life w.o love?

rsax

yeah sure email me sometime fawadm79@yahoo.com

Subroto #207

I swear my cat Sona talks! Rakhan my dumb boy cat (named for a famous Bengal Tiger and resident of Tiger Island-Dreamworld on the Gold Coast) is not an evolved soul like Sona alas and it is a little beneath her to have to share a house/litter-box/cat-tree with him. Wonder what a conversation between her and Nawab would sound like ??!

SaminaShah

Hello Samina

Save me $12 and just email it to me - if that`s possible.

``I agree. However that should not prevent us from looking for the trajectories of those manners into our present day cultures-I contend that you`ll find its pretty much the same old story. Do you agree?``

I agree that the impossibility of predicting the future must not prevent us from critical thought - of course. On finding ``it`s pretty much the same old story`` - yes and no. It`s problematic to say that we shall find the same old story - it has implications for such ideas as evolution and notions such as ``human nature`` - I am unsettled by the proposition that we may make definitive statements about these, especially since I don`t think these by definition are amenable to such. Also what we may find and construe to be ``pretty much the same story`` is actually superficial - perhaps it is the journey and the elusive destination that we might understand ``truth`` to be?

``I`m still out on that verdict; all texts are to me part of vast dialogues that we couldn`t possibly trace; its hard for me to experience any text as a flat, unalive medium.``

Excellent Samina Sahab: YOUR EXPERIENCE of any text. Who owns your experience?? Clearly the object of experience is important to the experience, yet it is not what You bring to the experience.

``Can we claim that all music/dance/painting/craftwork/science is silent and depends solely on our interpretations? Or do some of us reach a generally consensual interpretation because an effective work of art has evoked primal fears/joys/subconsci in us?``

Think of Art appreciation classes - unless we are trained to appreciate...Think of ``effective work of art`` - ``Effective``?? - is that a quality within the art? or is it a representation of how we do or not relate to the work of art? Subconscious? is that a quality of art? or again, OUR EXPERIENCE?



``What happens to the other connections that are simultaneously made and unnoticed?

On one hand, I believe the act of reading/writing is based on critical thinking processes that involve the connections of a million systems/references for the reader, training or no training.``

Connections that go unnoticed? well, they go unnoticed, that is to say we remain unawre of them. Impossible to make connections unless the paradigm of ``training`` has been established - Do we make connections without ``method``? How would making connections even be meaningful without ``method`` i.e. ``training``

``It is the task of the critical mind to keep her/himself open in understanding codes,

genres and in making interdisciplinary and sometimes contrary linkages.``

Most certainly I would agree with you - and making those connections or not, is a function of training/method.

``Well I don`t know what ``lower`` and ``higher`` faculties are. I remain by contention that humans are the most base and wretched form of life on this earth-i.e. we systematically exploit each other and this planet in ways no animal species has ever had. Our ``higher`` faculties have made us owners and not an organically a part of this planet.``

This statement in itself suggest that positing the human entirely in nature would be an error - afterall, we would then be in a position of articulating, that relationship (base and wretched) to nature - which would not be worthy of your support. Higher/lower faculites is the dialectic opposition between nature and reason. I`m sick of using that word, dialectic.



re:``... Do you think there is merit to the proposition that ``feminization`` refers to exactly the kind of paradox Eagleton constructs: that it is artificial, even as it suggests it`s ``natural`` origin and ``rootedness``?

Please refer to original post #202 2nd and 3rd para - please also consider Eagleton`s construct of the argicultural dweller who has less of the ``culture`` than does the urban dweller.

``I don`t know. Its pretty anthrocentric to assume that the human mode of ``self`` is the

only form of consciousness, when all we seem to want is ``flow`` and natural grace in ourselves and in the world. In other words, animals seem to exist in a state of regenerative harmony. They simply are. So we as humans place ourselves above animals because we have ``higher faculties`` and spend humankind trying to acheive that naturalness in the world animals have....``

I am not satisfied with this statement - Anthrocentric?? how else could a response possibly be? To the best of our knowledge, do we know that a ``consciousness`` of Self exists in any other animal except man/woman? Clearly we are not aware of any such ``consciouness``. Might we one day? possibly. Should that alter our position? Lets be clear, we will alter our position when we become aware of such a consciousness among any other than humans, in the meantime, we have no option but to formulate and act upon the knowledge we posssess now. The same as thoughts that go unnoticed, how are we to be aware of that which we are not aware of??

Should we be trying to achieve ``naturalness`` or a state of simply ``being``? Only we if we are convinced that we have no self consciousness - but how could be convinced of something like the non-existence of self consciousness without the experience of self consciousness? This is what I was referring to about ``Gilgamesh`` and the opposition of knowledge and innocence.

``I would need to know what his def. of cultivation is. I doubt Eagleton would reduce the urban, industrialized experience as less potentially exploitative and difficult than agricultural labor....however, there probably is much more possibility of class, political, social, gender and economic (and therefore cultural and material consumerism) fluidity. One`s income and social strata may change more readily than in agricultural contexts.``

I think it is unnecessary to read more into whatever his definition of cultivation - whatever else it may be, we can be sure that it means more ``tending`` and more ``natural growth`` - he contends and we experience, more cultivation (as in those who partake of culture) in urban centers than agricultural centers - Is this not so? it is difficult and unworthy to obfuscate here. Let me come directly to the point: If culture is ``tending natural growth`` why is there more of it in urban centers? Indeed, Eagleton adds, ``Cultivation, however, may not only be something we do to ourselves. It may be something done to us, not least by the political State`` - What an excellent, logical building block for an argument for ``Bildung`` and other totalitarian ``manners`` of whose trajectories we ought to be mindful of. - So while ``tending`` may have been an understanding of, for the lack of a better words, argricultural society , the historical transformation of organized society has by degree, ceased to deposit the same meaning to the word ``culture``. Is ``culture`` then better defined as the degree and character of human interactions?? Reality is as we devise to experience it, not as we wish it were.

Samina, Have you read ``the Origins of Totalitarian Democracy`` or ``Political Messianism: The Romantic Phase`` - both by J. Talmon?

dost-mittar:

you farmaoed:

```thandi hawaain, lehra ke chal deen..` oof, I`m sure I`ve gotten it wrong..

...only slightly. The correct one is:

thandi hawaain, lehra ke aayaen

...are you of that vintage?``

Thank you for the `slight` correction. I knew it had to do with chalna or aana, and just wasn`t sure which. As for my vintage, hmmm...don`t know how quite to answer that, `cept to say not quite!

RE Banjaara # 223

``Would be a good read if you could write another 200 pages :)``

Thank you for your kind words sir, though I have still got to write my yet to be published book who knows maybe one day those extra 200 pages will make it on paper.

re: fawad

{hey rsax if ur ever in the nyc area u me and harpreet can go to a bar and have a drink maybe meet some chicks tagteam effort?}

...sure, but i doubt i`ll be much help with the chicks...doesn`t harpreet live in london?...he`s supposed to be great at macking on chicks, so he can help there...zafar uncle used to be pretty slick with the girls back in his day too...although he`ll first send you to Diesel before revealing anything...

Fawad,

I am not a guy your age..(and thank God for that!!!), but azizam, your posts, such anguish..hai hai! Why worry about hooking up with white chicks, brown chicks any kind of chick (btw, they`re also called young women..but perhaps its the number of syllables men have to use, being monosyllabic is soooo much easier)

Take some advice from Ana aunty..beta, relax! Don`t be overanxious, take things easy, abhi to tum jawan ho..what`s the rush (omigod..yes, it`s the neverending blazing hormones, how silly of me!). There are ways to meet young women, establish common ground, make lasting friendships, treat her(them) as equals, and see where that takes you...

Of course if that`s not what you`re looking for, then disregard this interfering aunty`s request with her apologies :-)

Hobbyty,

re: ``Dirt and Desire: The Phenomenology of Female Pollution in Antiquity`` is an essay in Anne Carson`s book Men in the Off Hours; it is def. worth more the 12 dollars the paperback costs. She`s a genius poet/critical theorist who engages a great deal of Greek philosophy in her work.

``I want to point out that here the verb is ``tending`` - it is tending that is the active in culture - not ``natural growth`` - it is passive - and what might ``unnatural`` growth be?

Good question. My hard criteria for the un-naturalness of something is based on the destruction of self and others in a tortuous manner. For example, arguably a young man who ``lives fast, dies young and leaves a pretty corpse`` seems to be as eternal an archetype as a self immolating monk protesting US policy. I can`t necessarily condemn either. However, if a young man tortures himself or another person-I accept that such behavior may fall into the realm of human behavior and cannot make a value judgement of said behavior-HOWEVER, I can say that such behavior is unhealthy and the behavior of someone who is in pain or is ill. War is a state of psychic/physical/spiritual/emotional illness.

re:``... Today`s ``oppressive`` manners were not ``oppressive`` yesterday - if we shall not be mindful of this, we will risk becoming enveloped by constructs of relativism...``



I agree. However that should not prevent us from looking for the trajectories of those manners into our present day cultures-I contend that you`ll find its pretty much the same old story. Do you agree?



``... that is, that all text are silent and it is the ``training`` and knowledge that any person brings to a given text, is how we may understand the foundations of any particular interpretation. Would you agree?...``



I`m still out on that verdict; all texts are to me part of vast dialogues that we couldn`t possibly trace; its hard for me to experience any text as a flat, unalive medium. Can we claim that all music/dance/painting/craftwork/science is silent and depends solely on our interpretations? Or do some of us reach a generally consensual interpretation because an effective work of art has evoked primal fears/joys/subconsci in us? What happens to the other connections that are simultaneously made and unnoticed? On one hand, I believe the act of reading/writing is based on critical thinking processes that involve the connections of a million systems/references for the reader, training or no training. It is the task of the critical mind to keep her/himself open in understanding codes, genres and in making interdisciplinary and sometimes contrary linkages.

So good reading is an act of receiving, connecting, grappling, contextualizing, historicizing...

re:``.. our ideology should be constructed on our understanding of, and ``creation`` of, a balance between these ``higher and lower faculties...``

Well I don`t know what ``lower`` and ``higher`` faculties are. I remain by contention that humans are the most base and wretched form of life on this earth-i.e. we systematically exploit each other and this planet in ways no animal species has ever had. Our ``higher`` faculties have made us owners and not an organically a part of this planet.

re:``... Do you think there is merit to the proposition that ``feminization`` refers to exactly the kind of paradox Eagleton constructs: that it is artificial, even as it suggests it`s ``natural`` origin and ``rootedness``? Seems to me, that there is a kind of positive/negative, Yin/Yang, Male/Female kind of tension that holds up the construct, culture and that this tension is instructive...``

Could you please post the Eagleton para in question?

re:``... Does the Self have an ``autonomous existence`` in nature? that is, is there such a thing as Self in nature? Isn`t that ``consciousness`` exactly what nature is not? Something akin to ``you can`t go home...``? ...``

I don`t know. Its pretty anthrocentric to assume that the human mode of ``self`` is the only form of consciousness, when all we seem to want is ``flow`` and natural grace in ourselves and in the world. In other words, animals seem to exist in a state of regenerative harmony. They simply are. So we as humans place ourselves above animals because we have ``higher faculties`` and spend humankind trying to acheive that naturalness in the world animals have....

re: ``...I don`t know if you are familiar with the ``Epic of Gilgamesh`` - if you are, don`t you think the same themes are explored in it - the meaning of the natural and the cultured, of knowledge and innocence?...``

I last studied Gilgamesh seven years ago; let me do some refreshing of my memory.

re:``... Eagleton clarifies: ``Those who cultivate the land are less able to cultivate themselves. Agriculture leaves no leisure for culture.`` - It is interesting that he does not continue this line of reasoning to take it into urban life. Does factory work leave relatively more leisure time than agricultural work - or what about those who find they must do two jobs? - No, Eagleton devises a definition to suit his purpose: e.g, If we can agree that while distinct, all kinds of work and the need for ``dignified`` life - while engendering labor with ``dignity`` leaves little time for leisure, for cultivating the self - but why does the cultivation occur as prominently among urban dwellers? What other characteristics of ``culture might we explore to get a better understanding of why it is that culture is more prominent in urban settings and not agricultural settings?...``

I would need to know what his def. of cultivation is. I doubt Eagleton would reduce the urban, industrialized experience as less potentially exploitative and difficult than agricultural labor....however, there probably is much more possibility of class, political, social, gender and economic (and therefore cultural and material consumerism) fluidity. One`s income and social strata may change more readily than in agricultural contexts.

Temporal,

``been to countless gatherings where in the entrance parlour or hall the wind blows strongly``

haha. winds to hamari taraf bhi bohat chal rahin aaj kal, though of a less sinister kind. karachi wears the most beautiful look these days. aajaye?

would love to read that poem.

love,

aamir

temporal baba!!! glad you came out of hibernation, even if for a little bit, you`ve been missed! :-)

But your little note to me has left me somewhat confused..and rather than going through and figuring out what I`ve been saying ..mein bas itna kahoongi ke..I`m not too familiar with Bina or Nilufer, but I will definitely find out more...and..my lecture, the class I`m teaching has to do with women writing about war, and it was a difficult enough choice, choosing what I did..didn`t want to lean more towards South Asia, or the Middle East..but there`s so much to talk about, and so little class time..oof!

But if you`re talking about the list of writers I put down, was it on this board..for the young Fawad`s benefit (and hopefully others) then by all means, we should include Bina Shah, and Nilufer Farrukh..thank you for pointing that out.

Love your bit about the invisible handcuffs and all..and wished you had shared more about books, and all the other hot, juicy (!) topics, but when you have the time, as well as the inclination..but for now, I must run. take care, enjoy the lecture..let us know how it went....

love, a.

Subroto # 207

``Well its better to socialise with Cats, who don’t have that kind of `hang-ups`. In my personal experience, it’s a fallacy to think `ordinary Cats wont accept you`. If you adapt to their culture & respect their value system, they are some of the most unprejudiced animals I know.``

Verrry funny. Reminds me of Krishan Chander and

his famous `` Ek gadhe ki sar guzasht``.Would be a

good read if you could write another 200 pages :)

Regards.

PM,

{{is there any real (say ideological) reason you two should act so lovey dovey all the time??}}

Heheh...saxena & I share a loving bond of friendship based upon PURE hatred..why? who the heck remembers?; aint important:)... except that we are much more comfortable hating each..both of us feel an acute sense of discomfort if we ever--even unwittingly--agree on anything..its a unique & cherished bond between 2 faceless voices in cyberspace...

if that sh ithead ever left chowk, i`d be devastated...i would miss hating him sooo much & i know he would miss it too:)

PS: but sometimes I get this very very uncomfortable feeling that he likes my posts..cos he actually READS them & then pretends he`s bored & says ``yawn..who cares..``

SaminaShah

Super post - so much fun.

Dirt and Desire - where do I find it ? have a link? or just send it to me as an email attachment.

``One of it`s original meanings is ``husbandry``, or the tending of natural growth...``

I want to point out that here the verb is ``tending`` - it is tending that is the active in culture - not ``natural growth`` - it is passive - and what might ``unnatural`` growth be?

``It can be if we are not critical and vigilant about what these ideas are and how, why, when and where they are used in oppressive manners``

I`m sure we agree on the notion of sex as an idea (among other things) in culture. Of course we must try to be critical in a constructive manner. I think that it is very difficult to impossible, to discern the potential of some ideas to be used in ``oppressive manners`` - in the present sense - as time passes we can evaluate them and do evaluate them with lens/light that is different, from when we first encounter the idea. You may recall we discussed that we can indeed learn from history and in particular, we can understand women in history with a combination of how persons made a living and how the sexes viewed themselves and each other. Today`s ``oppressive`` manners were not ``oppressive`` yesterday - if we shall not be mindful of this, we will risk becoming enveloped by constructs of relativism.

``I refer you to an interesting book by Marlene Zuk entitled Sexual Selections: What We Can and Can`t Learn About Sex From Animals as reviewed in last Sunday`s NYT`s book review section. According to the author, humans have the propensity to impose their own interpretations of the animal/natural world to bolster a political agenda.``

An excellent insight, I`m in general cautious of transposing ``truths`` of the animal world to human society, however; this instance seems to confirm the point about ``theory int LIGHT of...`` that is, that all text are silent and it is the ``training`` and knowledge that any person brings to a given text, is how we may understand the foundations of any particular interpretation. Would you agree?

``the unpalatable truth that female selection (based on male animal symbols of virility) was a driving force in choosing procreation partners, (based on the ideation of female ``passivity``) humans impose interpretations on the natural world that are simply untrue.``

Yet another confirming instance: In my experience and I would be willing to bet a dollar for a dime, in the experience of all men: men understand only too well, just who does the ``selecting`` -

``Are we encouraged to think critically about our need to find self reflection and self reference in the natural world to justify our particular ideologies? Are we encourage to interrogate culture in the same way? If so, why? If not, why not?``

Thank God for that - you had me panicked, I thought I had lost you - ``reference in the natural world``?? Your Nietzsche is showing - We are not just ``nature``, we are more, we are ``reasoning`` (not that it`s evident) - ideally, (another `poor` word) our ideology should be constructed on our understanding of, and ``creation`` of, a balance between these ``higher and lower faculties`` - Do you think there is merit to the proposition that ``feminization`` refers to exactly the kind of paradox Eagleton constructs: that it is artificial, even as it suggests it`s ``natural`` origin and ``rootedness``? Seems to me, that there is a kind of positive/negative, Yin/Yang, Male/Female kind of tension that holds up the construct, culture and that this tension is instructive. - No we do not and I suggest we ought not ``interrogate culture`` from an or all ideologies rooted in the natural world. Nature does not have ``moralic acid``, human society must, it is based on it. Recall the notion that if culture means husbandry, it means ``regulation`` and spontaneous growth`` and ``Self-overcoming as much as self-realization.`` Culture is itself ``artificial`` with reference to the natural world and indeed it would be calling to the most elastic of definitions of culture to suggest that it is the same as nature. Does the Self have an ``autonomous existence`` in nature? that is, is there such a thing as Self in nature? Isn`t that ``consciousness`` exactly what nature is not? Something akin to ``you can`t go home...``? I don`t know if you are familiar with the ``Epic of Gilgamesh`` - if you are, don`t you think the same themes are explored in it - the meaning of the natural and the cultured, of knowledge and innocence? Indeed, would your question be relevant or even be meaningful, if we could posit the self in the natural world?

``Is Eagleton referring to the transformation of feudalistic societies to industrialization attendant with the hierarchies of state/political/religious/business systems? Or is he commenting on the urban space as being an site of the constructors and consumers of things and ideas?``

Yes, I think so! Notice: ````if the word culture...it also encodes a number of key philosophical issues.``

``Eagleton`s point that the labor and ownership of land; the relationship between farmers and their soil and product is increasingly eclipsed by an industrialized existence that severs the tie between worker and the object of his/her labor in many ways.``

No, I don`t think it is a point he is making here, but were we to infer a mastery, a suppleness, an ease, that Eagleton has with the ``scriptures`` of the left, we would not be of the mark. Eagleton clarifies: ``Those who cultivate the land are less able to cultivate themselves. Agriculture leaves no leisure for culture.`` - It is interesting that he does not continue this line of reasoning to take it into urban life. Does factory work leave relatively more leisure time than agricultural work - or what about those who find they must do two jobs? - No, Eagleton devises a definition to suit his purpose: e.g, If we can agree that while distinct, all kinds of work and the need for ``dignified`` life - while engendering labor with ``dignity`` leaves little time for leisure, for cultivating the self - but why does the cultivation occur as prominently among urban dwellers? What other characteristics of ``culture might we explore to get a better understanding of why it is that culture is more prominent in urban settings and not agricultural settings?

Parties? What bores! No one knows how to behave in a civil manner anymore and the notion of having FUN seems to have been lost somewhere - I can`t wait for this idiot dam to burst.

anNy jaan..the winds are blowing, hain? I hope they are cool ones..woh kya purana gana hai, `thandi hawaain, lehra ke chal deen..` oof, I`m sure I`ve gotten it wrong..ah well. About Fahmida Riaz, I haven`t heard anything about her not being alive..and I`ve only seen tasveerain of her, but nothing like what you describe, so the answer to your questions are..pata nahin. She was at a conference just this last March, but I am curious, has she returned to Pakistan to live? I know she left during the dark ages of Zia.

So you read the English translations of Lihaaf and Bichoo?? I was just looking through the book at our public library (thank goodness, American libraries in smaller cities than New York are catching on to the beauty of Indian/Pakistani literature), and I knew that Tahira Naqvi had done the translations..I think she does an excellent job translating, yaar..and her own work is very good. Have you read her `Attar of Roses?`

Chalo, pata hai, tum kuch Chowkwalon se tang aagayi ho (mera bhi yehi haal hai), par kabhi kabar apna dhyan yahan diya karo..theek hai? :-)

rsax

starbucks is way too expensive worth it but way too expensive ...........

hey rsax if ur ever in the nyc area u me and harpreet can go to a bar and have a drink maybe meet some chicks tagteam effort?

this is for all the guys my age why is that maybe its just me i have a hard time hookin up with white chicks ?????????????

sammi 212:
and ana, shanker, aamir ansari, anNy and friends)

finally…could not resist pinsky…even tho’ was tempted to join in that thread with authors and book lists…and the veiled discussions on desi sexuality…and that descriptive desi party syndrome where women discuss jewellery and saris and men ‘paaliticks’ over single malts and/or stale tea and samosas…

…lots of interesting things have been happening of lately…including a recent ‘rediscovery’ that there are only 24 hours I can play with…and blending the 86,400 seconds with the ‘legendary’ temporalian procrastination leads me to here…meaning am so far behind in personal correspondence…(friends and yaars---do understand and forgive---and yes the email is in the mail:))…

…(observation)….guys and gals here are doing fine taking the zip outta otherwise interesting topic…desi sexual mores…more like the absence of it and stretching and blending it with grace and sly of hand ;) with defunct victorian prudence…horror of horrors…we are desis…we are married and/or unmarried desis…we do no such thing…hey, didja read that poem?…

…been to countless gatherings where in the entrance parlour or hall the wind blows strongly…pushing men towards one room and women to another…smoke, hockey or baseball or nfl or elections or speech were the smokescreens…even otherwise sane reasonable friends would meekly succumb…till my partner in crime and i resolved that never again…never again would we be separated…so we would use invisible hand cuffs…and initially this was resisted…horror of horrors…a lady amidst men…then one would saunter over ostensibly to bring tea…and would linger…then another….and slowly over time it grew and folks understood…so what if we were not invited to some gatherings…the ones we attended were collectively better…and we did not miss the segregated ones…

re: your noble tho’ slightly unwarranted eggings on…am referring to cyber ‘aag ka pheras’…and here i was brushing up on old b&w movies….the ones where one of the elders wore a faded dressing gown, over striped pjs, smoked a pipe, and drove a convertible caddy along winding roads….or wore jodhpurs and riding boots and rode ferociously all over the terrain…with loud screeching music as accompaniment, arriving in the nick of time to stop the pheras…whew…all in vain… the chosen candidates did not share your vibes or enthusiasm…
(AnNy:…tonight…we are going to a niilofur farrukh’s illustrated lecture on “an agenda of conscience: tradition, art, politics in pakistan”…yes anNy-penNy…niilofer is visiting T.O…)

Ana: your lecture sounds interesting…missing from your list is a regular chowkie author bina shah…why, I wonder?…and niilofer too, with her ‘landmark’ book about the three artists…had an interesting poem about certain desi couples…if i find it would post it again…aamir you have not read it and perhaps you’d like it too…

…and samm…this pow-wow…where?…and why ladies only?…khair…koi baat nahiN…as long as you make it to TO some time (with Mr. S of course)…and will gather some more chowkies here…

(ok, back into hibernation)

lve,
t

Samina, Shankar...#203

I actually stopped going to `desi` parties because of the gendered division. Everytime I would go, men log wahan, women log yahan...I don`t remember being at parties in Pakistan where such divisions were observed, but then I wasn`t around the `grownups` all that much. Returning to America however, and then as a college student, finally being able to go out and meet various Pakistanis, Indians, and go to parties, it was rather a shock. I remember one time, my ex-fiance and I were going to a family (his) gathering, also attended by close friends (theirs), and I told him I didn`t feel comfortable at parties where men were on one side of the room and women were on the other, and he told me in not so many words that that was the way it was. He comes from a traditional family though, whereas mine leans more toward the moderate side (at least part of my family does).

I have to say, in some cases, there may be social pressure to act and behave in a certain way..Samina remember that story I told you about the aunty? I can relate to Shankar`s wife`s experiences, because even though I speak the language, I just can`t relate a lot of the time.

I love being in the company of desi women..as long as they don`t tease me or press the question about why I am still a singleton (too much Bridget Jones..tra la la!). And depending on what kind of group it is, we don`t just talk about recipes, and the latest fashions! But every now and then, I look at that divide..where the men are drinking their whiskeys and whatnot and talking with such `josh`...not with envy, but with questions, and more questions.

re. RSax #209

Why? What`d he ever do yo YOU?

re: Stuka

{Man I wish I had friends from Wellesley...}

...actually, they`re dangerous...be careful...i know about this firsthand...

{the only people I met at the stupid rally was Sardars..nothing against Sardars...but u really don`t feel motivated to ask a Sardar for a phone number to discuss ``peace issues`` over a coffee...}

...hmmm...have you considered `volunteering` for green peace or your local amnesty international chapter?...you may find more suitable company for starbucks there...haha

re: PM #205

...i will leave DRUMZ to deal with you...

Romair,

I wasn`t referring to military bases per se..I was talking about the military as the current holder of power in Pakistan right now. And you can tell me all you want to about how women are protected by the military..I`m sure that`s true. The point I was trying to make is that the women`s movement was and IS stymied by the patriarchy in Pakistan. But, to answer Fawad`s question, they have not given up hope and are continuing the struggle.

Hobbyty,

Hello!

re: ``...in culture``, it cannot but be infused and transformed (at the level of societal transaction) into an idea ...``

-It can be if we are not critical and vigilant about what these ideas are and how, why, when and where they are used in oppressive manners. I refer you to an interesting book by Marlene Zuk entitled Sexual Selections: What We Can and Can`t Learn About Sex From Animals as reviewed in last Sunday`s NYT`s book review section. According to the author, humans have the propensity to impose their own interpretations of the animal/natural world to bolster a political agenda. From the Bonobos (the supposedly freeloving, vegetarian, peaceable primate species that fascinatingly, so alarmed Urstruly) to the stereotypical, male hetero language of the scientific world to the unpalatable truth that female selection (based on male animal symbols of virility) was a driving force in choosing procreation partners, (based on the ideation of female ``passivity``) humans impose interpretations on the natural world that are simply untrue. Are we encouraged to think critically about our need to find self reflection and self reference in the natural world to justify our particular ideologies? Are we encourage to interrogate culture in the same way? If so, why? If not, why not?

RE:``...- I`m reproducing parts of something I`ve been meandering through and I would like you to consider it and give me some feedback: ``The Idea of Culture`` by Terry Eagleton (Dedicated to Edward Said?)...``

-Two good men indeed!

re:``...though it is fashionable these days to see nature as a derivative of culture, culture etymologically speaking is a concept derived from nature. One of it`s original meanings is ``husbandry``, or the tending of natural growth...

-See above point.

re: ``...`Culture` at first denoted a throughly material process, which was then metaphorically transposed to affairs of the spirit...``

-I understand this passage to comment on the actually physical objects that ``make`` or are absorbed into later ideologies.

re:``... The Word then charts within its semantic unfolding humanity`s own historic shift from rural to urban existence...in marxist parlance, it brings both base and superstructure in a single notion...But the semantic shift is also paradoxical: it is the urban dwellers who are cultivated, an those who actually live by tilling the soil who are not...``

-Is Eagleton referring to the transformation of feudalistic societies to industrialization attendant with the hierarchies of state/political/religious/business systems? Or is he commenting on the urban space as being an site of the constructors and consumers of things and ideas? I would point out that cities (as in city plays as portrayed by Renaissance playwrights) were notorious for being petrie dishes of change, interrogation of race, gender, and politics, mercantilism and class shifting. This theme is echoes in the literatures of many cultures.

Eagleton`s point that the labor and ownership of land; the relationship between farmers and their soil and product is increasingly eclipsed by an industrialized existance that severs the tie between worker and the object of his/her labor in many ways. A poem that I greatly by Robert Pinsky admire maps out these connections:

Shirt

The back, the yoke, the yardage. Lapped seams,

The nearly invisible stitches along the collar

Turned in a sweatshop by Koreans or Malaysians

Gossiping over tea and noodles on their break

Or talking money or politics while one fitted

This armpiece with its overseam to the band

Of cuff I button at my wrist. The presser, the cutter,

The wringer, the mangle. The needle, the union,

The treadle, the bobbin. The code. The infamous blaze

At the Triangle Factory in nineteen-eleven.

One hundred and forty-six died in the flames

On the ninth floor, no hydrants, no fire escapes--

The witness in a building across the street

Who watched how a young man helped a girl to step

Up to the windowsill, then held her out

Away from the masonry wall and let her drop.

And then another. As if he were helping them up

To enter a streetcar, and not eternity.

A third before he dropped her put her arms

Around his neck and kissed him. Then he held

Her into space, and dropped her. Almost at once

He stepped up to the sill himself, his jacket flared

And fluttered up from his shirt as he came down,

Air filling up the legs of his gray trousers--

Like Hart Crane`s Bedlamite, ``shrill shirt ballooning.``

Wonderful how the patern matches perfectly

Across the placket and over the twin bar-tacked

Corners of both pockets, like a strict rhyme

Or a major chord. Prints, plaids, checks,

Houndstooth, Tattersall, Madras. The clan tartans

Invented by mill-owners inspired by the hoax of Ossian,

To control their savage Scottish workers, tamed

By a fabricated heraldry: MacGregor,

Bailey, MacMartin. The kilt, devised for workers

to wear among the dusty clattering looms.

Weavers, carders, spinners. The loader,

The docker, the navvy. The planter, the picker, the sorter

Sweating at her machine in a litter of cotton

As slaves in calico headrags sweated in fields:

George Herbert, your descendant is a Black

Lady in South Carolina, her name is Irma

And she inspected my shirt. Its color and fit

And feel and its clean smell have satisfied

both her and me. We have culled its cost and quality

Down to the buttons of simulated bone,

The buttonholes, the sizing, the facing, the characters

Printed in black on neckband and tail. The shape,

The label, the labor, the color, the shade. The shirt.

-Robert Pinsky

This is what Eagleton is writing about.

I would like to address the remainder of your ambitious post! Hopefully, will tackle ``culture`` tom. I urge you to read the essay ``Dirt and Desire: Female Phenomenology in Antiquity`` by Anne Carson. I really wanted to post it, buts its about 20 pages long and I don`t think Chowk eds. would appreciate that! Its such a finely nuanced work that my paraphrasing or summarizing it cannot do it justice. We`ll see.

regards

Dear Hydra/Deepika,

Pretending that you are an Indian interactor doesn`t fool us either. I know it hurts to read this, but, NO ONE BELIEVES THAT YOU ARE AN INDIAN WOMAN.

Why you are bringing Bill Maher into this is beyond me...and your spermatozoa/big mouth comments are as usual huh?-worthy. How funny it is that you make fun of other interactors with puerile double entendres, but when the shoe is on the other foot, you c--r--y---!

You keep blabbing about Bill Maher; we`ve moved on.

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fawad,

{{some of those who grew up with no desi friends this in my experince i saw the tota