Of Evil Zionists and the Great Satan

hobbytv #189: Hameed Qadri was somewhat of a famous pilot in the PAF. I believe he had some air kills against the Soviets in an F-16, in his younger days.

It is common for senior pilots to fly training missions. They do so when they are starting flying, after a long lay-off from flying, due to staff jobs, etc. Also, if they have never flown that type of an aircraft before, and are converting from one aircraft to another.

It is sad to see someone die like that. But it is a common occurence in any Air Force. People spend their whole life protecting their country, then die in a small flying accident, when they are at the peak of their careers.

Just last month, another pilot I knew, died in a flying accident, in his mid-forties. He left behind a wife and young kids. What more could someone ask as a sacrifice from a Pakistani. 20 to 25% of my colleagues, in flying, died in their mid-20s, before they got married. One was to be married, in a week. All in a the line of duty.

Its people like this, who deserve the respect of fellow Pakistanis. I rank them at a higher level than philanthripists, writers, protesters, etc. They don`t make noise, they don`t write articles, they are not critics, they are not activists. They just quitely lay their lives down for their countries, and die, with no one noticing.

This is also why I get upset, when people who know next to nothing about the individuals in the Pakistan military, try to gain cheap popularity, by becoming their biggest critics, by making blanket statements without presenting any facts.

My prayers go out to Qadri Sahib`s family. I assume his kids must be teenagers. May his soul rest in peace.

As they say....Shaheed ki jo mout hai, woh qoum ki hayat hai...

It is people like this who are real shaheeds, not people like ``Shaheed`` Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto....

fawad79 #193,

pardon the rudeness, but who cares....

chacha khamkhwa #87 is in great form I see. Kee gal ai, sirjee? Mang kai charrhaee ai ya aapay khareedi ai?

this is for any muslim............

do you think that islam will die out? do you think people who pray fast and have beards and follow the sunnah are losers? is islam just for depressed , poor indviduals? i dont know every friday less and less people seem to be coming to masjid

anNy Reply #: 184

Ferishteh

its rather rusty actually. Have you been to Qom, Zahedaan, Isfahan? I`d like to see the villages in Isfahaan, hear theyre beautiful. And are you a male or female? :) I know of some girls named farishteh as well as a few families that have that as the last name so little confused.

Thanks anNY. Yes Iran is an endearing place . I am sure Indo-Pak is also very hospitable to vistors especially from Iran. Actually we have relations in Pakistan as well as SOuthern India.

You have seen many parts of Iran. Have you been to the Caspian coast.

Yes. I do like chelo kebabs. Have you tried the world famous Caspian caviar.



I aim to visit North west Iran this year. I am unsure if I will visit Qom.

Actually the vast majority of Ferishtehs in Iran are girls and I am one.

Khoda Hafez

Ferishteh #172

“On the positive side , female literacy is thankfully still high compared to neighbours. “

…you were born and bred in america but use british spellings??…

Romair

An Air Commodore on a training mission on a F7??

or what? Something fishy about this story. What`s your thinking?

``Pakistan fighter plane crashes, pilot killed

ISLAMABAD, July 19 (Reuters) - A Pakistani pilot died when his fighter plane crashed near Kamra, 50 miles (80 km) west of the capital of Islamabad, a Pakistan Air Force spokesman said on Friday.

He said the F-7/P fighter plane crashed near Kamra air base during a routine flight.

``I can confirm that the plane has crashed and its pilot Air Commodore Hameed Qadri has been killed,`` the spokesman said, adding that the plane was on a routine training mission.``

Chowkies - Rejoice! Rejoice!

For long I have invited you examine clearly the case of Islam and that of obscuritanism. Many criticism of the understanding of Islam are indeed valid and do form what is understood as Obscuritanism. Today the picture tilts towards the obscuritanists, BUT more and more Islam is being reclaimed and it is God`s mercy; more and more, we see the desperation of the Obscuritanists and more and more we shed light on the blight they inflicted. Lets remind ourselves of the words of the benevolent scholar, Allahmah Mohammed Iqbal Lahori, these words are even more potent, offer even greater light today than when first penned - From his magnus opus ``Reconstruction of Religious Thought`` (Caps are mine)

``...Is it then possible to apply the purely rational method of philosophy to Religion? The spirit of philosophy is one of free inquiry. It suspects all authority. Its function is to trace the uncritical assumptions of human thought to their hiding place, And in this pursuit it may finally end in denial or a frank admission of the incapacity of pure reason to reach ultimate Reality.

The essence of religion, on the other hand, is faith; and faith, like the bird, sees its “trackless way” unattended by intellect which in the words of the great mystic poet of Islam “only waylays the living heart of man and robs it of the invisible wealth of life that lies within”. Yet it cannot be denied that faith is more than feeling. It has something like a COGNITIVE content, and the existence of rival parties-scholastics and mystics- in the history of religion SHOWS THAT IDEA IS A VITAL ELEMENT IN RELIGION.

Religion on its doctrinal side, as defined by Professor Whitehead, is a “system of general truths, which have the effect of transforming character when they are sincerely held and vividly apprehended”. Now, since the transformation and guidance of man’s inner and outer life is the essential aim of religion, it is obvious that the general truths which it embodies must not remain unsettled. No one would hazard action based on the basis of a doubtful principle of conduct. Indeed, IN VIEW OF ITS FUNCTION, RELIGION STANDS IN GREATER NEED OF A RATIONAL FOUNDATIONS OF ITS ULTIMATE PRINCIPLES THAN EVEN THE DOGMAS OF SCIENCE. Science may ignore a rational metaphysics; indeed, it has ignored it so far. Religion can hardly afford to ignore the search for a RECONCILIATION of the OPPOSITIONS of EXPERIENCE and a justification of the environment in which humanity finds itself. That is why Professor Whitehead has acutely remarked that “ THE AGES OF FAITH ARE THE AGES OF RATIONALISM.” But to rationalize faith is not to admit the superiority of philosophy over religion. Philosophy, no doubt, has jurisdiction to judge religion, but what is to be judged is of such a nature that it will not submit to the jurisdiction of philosophy except on its own terms. While sitting in judgement on religion, philosophy cannot give religion an inferior place in its data. Religion is not a departmental affair; it is NEITHER MERE THOUGHT, NOR MERE FEELING, NOR MERE ACTION; it the expression of the WHOLE man. Thus, in the evaluation of religion, philosophy must recognize the central position of religion and has no other alternative but to admit it as something focal in the process of reflective SYNTHESIS. NOR IS THERE IS ANY REASON TO SUPPOSE THAT THOUGHT AND INTUITION ARE ESSENTIALLY OPPOSED TO EACH OTHER. They spring up from the SAME ROOT and COMPLEMENT EACH OTHER. The one grasps reality piecemeal, and the other grasps it in its wholeness. The one fixes it gaze on the eternal, the other on the temporal aspect of Reality. The one is present enjoyment of the whole of Reality; the other aims at traversing the whole by slowly specifying and closing up the various regions of the whole for exclusive observation. Both are in need of each other for mutual rejuvenation. Both seek visions of the same reality which reveals itself to them in accordance with their function in life. In fact, intuition, as Bergson rightly says, is only a higher kind of intellect.

The search for rational foundations in Islam may be regarded as have begun with the holy prophet…"

From DAWN dtd today

``A Religion of Reasoning

By Haider Zaman

The main argument that the unbelievers used to put forward for not accepting the message conveyed by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was that why did he not display any miracle. In reply the Quran said ``And we refrain from sending the signs (miracles) because men of the former generations treated them false (17:59).

The other reason was implicit in another Quranic verse which said ``O, Prophet invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and excellent preachings and argue with people in the best manner`` (16:125). The words ``wisdom``, ``excellent preachings`` and ``argue with people in the best manner`` in this verse, among other things, implied the extensive use of knowledge and reasoning in the process of preaching and arguing with people.

In fact, with the revelation of the Quran started a new era - the era of reasoning and enlightenment. We cannot deny the role of miracles because Allah in His Wisdom did give miracles, in one form or another, to the prophets which helped them in carrying out their messages across. But at the same time we have to accept that a miracle has a limited scope of influence and vitality.

Firstly it appeals only to sentiments rather than the reason. Secondly only those persons are convinced by the miracles who actually see them. With the passage of time, people either start forgetting them or questioning their authenticity. Hence, reliance on miracles could not have been an appropriate course for the last of all religions to follow.

There was need for adopting a course that could ensure the acceptability of its message at all times to come. That could be possible only by appealing to the intellect, reason and conscience of the people instead of relying on miracles. Therefore, with the revelation of the Quran, the reliance shifted from sentimentalism and emotionalism to reasoning, reflecting, deducting and understanding. Out of the total of 6666 verses of the Quran about 756 verses emphasize reflecting, listening, pondering, knowing and understanding.

In the past, the word ``sign`` was used for a miracle. But in the Quran it is used for something definite and within the comprehension of every one. That is why with every reference to a sign there is due emphasis on reflecting and pondering over the sign referred to (30:22). Some of the signs referred to frequently in the Quran are the creation and existence of certain objects that one can see with the naked eyes like the sun, moon and various other celestial bodies (50:6).

Some are the orderly movements and functioning of such objects like the movement of various celestial bodies in their orbits (36:40) capable of being proved by unrefutable evidence. Some of the signs are the clear-cut and verifiable conclusions one can draw from certain creation and their functioning like the maintenance of balance and the resultant harmony one can note while reflecting over the existence of countless celestial bodies (55:7,8). Some are the provision of things in due measure necessary for sustaining life on earth (15:19), (30:40) so evident that they require no proof. And some are the events that have actually happened.

In short all the signs referred to in the Quran are such that their existence or happening cannot be denied. As the Quran says ``Say thou: This is my way: I do invite unto Allah on evidence clear as the seeing with one`s eyes`` (12:108).

Reflection over the signs, referred to in the Quran, has a twofold object. One is to strengthen faith in the existence and Unity of Allah and the other is to make use of such signs and the conclusions drawn there from for the benefit of mankind. For example, reflection over the degree of balance and harmony that exists in the creation tells us about two things. One is that such balance could not have been established and maintained without there being a single and highly skilled Creator and Designer.

According to Charles Townes, a noted physicist who shared the 1964 Nobel Prize in physics, ``recent discoveries in cosmology reveal a Universe that fits the religious views that some intelligence must have been involved in the laws of Universe.`` The other is that it is because of such balance and the resultant harmony that the system has survived for billions of years. Hence, the first thing one should learn could be to have faith in the existence and Unity of Allah. That`s why the Prophet said that ``contemplation over and study of Allah`s creation for a while is better than a year`s prayers.``

According to the renowned scientist Einstein, ``God reveals Himself in the harmony that exists in the creation.`` The second thing that one should learn could be that the secret of survival lies in harmony and that harmony can be possible only through the maintenance of balance. This provides an excellent example for the people to follow and emulate in their own spheres of activities. According to Martin Lings, ``harmony is the imprint of Oneness upon multiplicity, and the Quran draws attention to that harmony for man`s meditation.``

Thus, after the revelation of the Quran, there was no need for any miracle or any thing of that kind. In fact, the Quran itself could be the greatest of all miracles. According to Husayn Haykal, a renowned Egyptian scholar,`` history has not reported to us that any of those early companions had entered faith because of miracles witnessed. Rather it was the conclusive Divine argument conveyed through the revelation and the superlatively noble life of the Prophet that conduced those men to faith.`` The Prophet himself said that ``every Prophet was given miracles because of which people believed him, but what I have been given is Divine inspiration and that which Allah revealed to me (the Quran).``

The Quran while enjoining belief in the unseen (2:3), also emphasises the need for pondering and reflecting over various facets of the creation so that any one having such faith can test its authenticity on the touchstone of reasoning and the conclusion drawn there from. It also goes to the credit of the Quran that it gives due importance to the acquisition of knowledge which, among other things, enhances the scope of the process of pondering and reasoning making it capable of being used for the benefit of mankind.

The importance that the Quran gives to the knowledge is manifest from its very first verses revealed to the Prophet which said ``read and thy Lord is the Most Gracious Who taught knowledge by pen: taught man that which he did not know`` (96:4,5). Soon after the revelation of these verses, another verse was revealed which again stressed the importance of knowledge but in a different way i.e. through the Divine oath by the pen and that which is written with it (68:1). Besides, the importance of knowledge is conveyed to us through a practical example, namely, the outcome of the test to which Adam and angels were put together.

There are also a number of sayings of the Prophet emphasising the need for the acquisition of knowledge so much so that he said that the ``Day of Judgment will be the Day on which the knowledge is lifted from the world`` (Bukhari). Another Quranic verse which says ``O Lord advance me in knowledge`` (20:114) conveys the message that there should be no end to the acquisition of knowledge. This was further clarified by the Prophet when he said ``go on acquiring knowledge from cradle to grave.``

It also goes to the credit of the Quran that the Muslim scientists and scholars, inspired by its teachings, played pivotal role in the acquisition and dissemination of different kinds of knowledge - a fact that has been acknowledged the world over. According to Robert Brifault ``the light from which civilization was once more kindled, did not arise from any embers of Graeco-Roman culture smouldering among the ruins of Europe, nor from the living death on the Bosphorous. It did not come from the northern but from the southern invaders of Europe, from the Saracens (Arabs).``

J.W. Draper in his book ``The history of the intellectual development of Europe`` observes that the Quran gave science to two continents, Asia and Europe. Will Durant in his book Civilisation Vol-II observes ``Islam led the world in power, order and extent of government, in refinement of manners, in standards of living, in human legislation and religious tolerance, scholarship, science, medicine and philosophy.``

The Cambridge history of Islam highlights the contribution of Islam thus ``Muslim civilisation acted as a teacher to medieval Europe in virtually all branches of knowledge including philosophy and medicine, mathematics, astronomy and astrology.`` That`s why the French biographer of the Prophet, Henry Comte de Boulainvillier, calls him (the Prophet) as the fore-runner of the age of reason and enlightenment.``

Romair #177 As the old Indian song went ``mera joota a japaani, mari patloon inglistani, sar pay laal top turki, phir be dil hai hindustani``, so in response to your note I would say:

``mera naghma hai irani,

meri zabaan hai urdu-dani,

sar pai baseball topi amreeki,

phir bhi dil hai pakistani

meri film hai hindustani,

meri kitaab hai arbi-i-nafaani

sar pai fauj referendum ki haami

phir bhi dil hai pakistani``

:-)

But seriously: I think it makes us a more dynamic nation, not a lesser one, if we accept things fromall cultures. The national anthem is fine in farsi, we all know basically what it means. It is only a petty and insecure people who are afraid to appreciate other cultures, who refuse to accept change, for whom the ``language issue`` or the ``ethnic issue`` is an issue of any significance. The only anchor we need is, imho, a strong, sound set of good values (peace and goodwill, honesty, hard work, learning etc.). The only issues of significance ultimately are those that impact on these values. Everything else - phrases or entire national anthems from other languages, artifacts from other cultures, and so on - merely adds to the ``onboard entertainment``. So, I think you should relax and enjoy the beautiful tune of the Pakistani national anthem and the enchanting farsi phrases that go with it. Tomorrow you can do the same with the Indian national anthem without fear of losing your Pakistani patriotism.

Khansahib-178

Oye lala,

TooN Dullay nuN nahin jaanda? Kamaal ai.Oye teri

maaN nuN chuk ke lay gaya si,and you were born nine months later.He is your real father and his name is.... Sardar Harbhajan Singh.Hun kar gall.

Main kaun?

Main Chacha Khamkhwa

PS:Tahmed321 dont even think about it.Butt out.

Romair,

{{Since, we are on the subject; are you familiar with the words Tendulkar, Gandhi, Bombay, Arabian Sea, Himalayas, Lata, Rafi, Ganga and Jumna.........}}

Yeah yeah..go ahead..wise guy..rub it in...:)

I suppose to be knowledgeable about S.Asian politics requires that one should know every frikking pop figure..esp in Bollywood!:) HAH!

OK OK..since there is an Indian video store in my teeny tiny Michigan town now..tell me the name of some good Madhuri film...let me check her out myself...maybe then I`ll earn the priviledge of beating you in every single argument we`ve ever had:)

Ferishteh

Hi. Nice to see you here; we`ve all kinds off samples from the sub continent, very few from your part of the world. Itll be good to have you here :) I`ve been to Iran like a zillion times and its the nicest place ever- the cherries (gilaas?), hugeass water melons, wispy scarves, the sarsheeer buckets, chillo kebabs, chargahs, the kaaawa, the colorful stones being sold on pavements and maaaan, the caspian sea! Your land is beautiful but the people more so, I`ve yet to come across more friendly and kind people. They hug and kiss so unbashedly, at the touch of a hat. And when they hear youre there for ziarat, a `zawaar` they say (I`m shia so we usually go for religious purposes combined with vacation scene) they go so totally out of their way. Also, anny becomes annyaeh and marzia, marziaeh and uzma, uzmaeh. I luvvit! I`ve been to Tehran, Mashad and a few smaller cities but I like the old Iran you get in parts of Mashad and Isfahan more than I do Tehran. That place is much too hi-fi for me but once we went to the outskirts where they had a gorgeous waterfall on several levels with men and women reclining on these takhts with red carpets, two steps away from the waterfall, smoking the hookah. It`s an image stuck in my head, I was very young then. I fell into the water ofcourse and it was so cold, almost chilled to the bone. Farsi baaladee, but havent been in almost 2 years so kumn kumn, its rather rusty actually. Have you been to Qom, Zahedaan, Isfahan? I`d like to see the villages in Isfahaan, hear theyre beautiful. And are you a male or female? :) I know of some girls named farishteh as well as a few families that have that as the last name so little confused.

best,

anNy

RE Romair # 176

``What about the name Amitabh....Does that ring a bell of some sort.....``

Hehe..hehe...rotfl..wicked.. on the other hand he does know about RAW & ISI, maybe was a double agent in the past and has had substancial amount of memory erased...

Pakistanis - read, and do not despair. Instead make up your mind as to who you are. Are you feudals and Obscuritanists? Or are you Muslims and Christians, men and women of conscience regardless of confession??? Are you a community governed by Law??? DO you want to be? If yes, what values will have to change?? - All social transformation is preceded by a change in values, by a reordering of priorities - Lets leave the religion of Obscuritanism, it is not Islam but a seperate religion - it is an affront to Islam and we are duty bound to confront this evil.

From Friday Times

``In which country are women who have been raped liable to be charged with adultery and stoned to death in punishment?

In which country are women liable to be publicly gang-raped on the orders of “democratic” village community organizations like jirgas and panchayats in revenge for alleged crimes committed by male members of their families and clans?

In which country are young girls criminally assaulted by deranged, perverted or powerful individuals as a matter of routine and condemned to live a “shameful” lie in silence?

In which country are women killed to avenge the perceived “honour” of their male relatives, tribes, clans, village elders, and influential families even though they may not have committed any crime?

In which country are women defaced and deformed by frustrated, “acid-throwing” maniacs?

In which country are women burnt alive in “stove explosions” engineered by enraged in-laws, husbands, brothers and fathers?

In which country do judges clutch at medieval notions of dishonour, inequality, piety and even religiosity to punish and demean women?

In which country are state and society predisposed against women?

If the answers are shameful and embarrassing, we should do something about it. If it is hurtful to see the foreign media washing our filthy linen in public, we should put an end to our dirty practices. If we are appalled by such brutality, we should protest vehemently. If we are aghast at such injustice, we should institutionalize punishments for crimes against women. If our laws are misplaced or discriminatory, we should change them.

Women constitute more than half the population of Pakistan. Yet they are more illiterate, downtrodden, oppressed and exploited than any other section of society. This is a blot on our country’s face; a blot that all the nuclear or nationalist “honour” in the world will not efface. The irony is all the greater when it is lost on our leaders. In an interview some time ago with the National Geographic magazine on the subject of women’s oppression in the context of “honour killings”, General Pervez Musharraf was asked by the foreign interviewer why nothing had been done to alleviate the plight of women in Pakistan. Pat came the answer: “We don’t have the money for alleviating poverty and eradicating illiteracy and backwardness”. “But you have the money for nuclear weapons and missiles”, retorted the devious foreigner. “Yes”, said the simple soldier, “we need nuclear weapons and conventional weapons and missiles in order to live honourably”. Should General Musharraf ever get round to watching that anguished documentary, he might look out for the gleam in the interviewer’s eye. It indicts the country and convicts its leader.

Much the same sentiment can and should be expressed regarding some so-called “Islamic” laws that are demonstrably unjust and also give a bad name to Pakistan. We refer, in particular, to the blasphemy law that has been the subject of so much mischief in the name of a great and just religion. Alleged blasphemers are punished by enraged mobs. They rot in prisons or are killed awaiting trial. They are assassinated inside and outside the courts. Judges dare not acquit them. And self-avowed reformers like General Musharraf don’t have the courage of their convictions to revamp such laws. Why, then, are we surprised by the condemnation of the world when a miscarriage of justice concerning some masih or the other is splashed on television screens and some of Pakistan’s murderous laws and cultural practices are displayed in all their gory details?

Pakistan is stretched on a historical rack, an arm and a leg in antiquity and barbarism, an arm and a leg in modernity and civilisation. Old notions of sovereignty, statecraft, politics, power, patronage, despotism, honour, religion and culture vie with modern symbols of globalisation, electoral democracy, constitutionalism, accountability, civil society, gender equality, professionalism, competitiveness and universal literacy. Historic Islamic strictures contradict post-colonial Anglo-Saxon structures. Unable to find a mutuality of interests between these two streams of thought and behaviour, society is inclined to descend into a feisty confrontation between the two. As the pace of life quickens under the impact of the new world order, large swathes of state and society are uprooted and dispersed. The job of the modern prince is to channel this energy into a productive, stable and assimilated nationhood. But tragically Pakistan has lacked leaders of substance or vision.``

tahmad #170: ``In fact, our national anthem is also in farsi``

Is it really in farsi? I thought it was just in really really difficult Urdu. I always wondered why I could never make heads or tails of it.

So our national anthem is in a foreign language, and our national language, Urdu itself, is the original mother tongue of only 10% or so of the population. And our founder could neither speak farsi nor the national language Urdu, and was not even from Pakistan, to begin with......

I think there needs to be a campaign to change the National Anthem from Pak Sar Zameen (which no one can understand, and hasn`t been sung famously by any singer) to Chand meri zameen, Phool mera Watan (which everyone can understand, and has been sung famously by Amanat Ali). Or to Jawab-e-Shikwa (which at least a few people can understand, and has been sung famously by Sabri Qawwal; though it is a somewhat too long to be an anthem; and since it was written before Partition, it has too many references to Hind and Hindi; these references may not look good in a Pakistani national anthem).

Vital Sign`s Dil Dil Pakistan wouldn`t be bad either; though it is not quite sophisticated and poetic enough.

What do you think.....

shankar #164: ``who the HELL is this Madhuri``

I am afraid you have exposed yourself too much, by admitting to not knowing anything about Madhuri. You should have kept this lack of knowledge a secret. It is like Clinton admitting to having sex with Monica. Or a student in a literature class, admitting not knowing anything about Shakespeare.

It will now take a long time, before your comments on South Asia can be taken seriously. As they say, it is much better to keep quite, and let people think you don`t know anything about the subject (Madhuri, in this case), than to speak up, and remove all doubt :-).

Since, we are on the subject; are you familiar with the words Tendulkar, Gandhi, Bombay, Arabian Sea, Himalayas, Lata, Rafi, Ganga and Jumna.........

What about the name Amitabh....Does that ring a bell of some sort.....