Of Evil Zionists and the Great Satan

Dear Chowkies, Chowk Editors

As a fellow interactor and Internet user, I want to bring up a problem I am having with my email. You see, a particularly pathetic specimen of human being has been sending me emails with virus attachments for some months now. Here is an example of an email I received today:

``Sent: 7/15/2002 6:22:09 PM

Subject: A new game

Hi,This is a special new game

This game is my first work.

You`re the first player.

I hope you would enjoy it.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *



Say hello to your mother for me!

---``

(Notice the incorrect usage of the modal ``would``. Wanker, you don`t need to use ``would`` for the future tense. Study your grammar before you go around releasing your pissant magic. Bechara gaddha ka bacha, look it up in a dictionary)

Now I have reason to believe that the author of this email is a wanker who interacts or reads the Chowk interacts. This email was sent with an attachment that probably contains nothing or not suprisingly, the cyber version of a veneral disease said wanker apparently suffers from in real life. And now he`s trying to pass it on.

Why this affects you dear Chowkies, is because I am friends with several of y`all and we exchange emails. I`m afraid 1. that wanker wallah is trying to unload a virus on me, and subsequently y`all or 2. these emails are all smoke and mirrors and I`d like to know if other Chowkies are receiving emails similar to this one.

Much as I would like to introduce said wanker to the posterior opening of his alimentary canal via his mouth, I realize that I have other steps to take. He`ll get his karma, legally. Meanwhile, I ask y`all to be careful with your email, notify Chowk editors that this person is apparently targetting Chowkies for his cyber viruses and use one of our boards to discuss this matter, if possible.

cheers!

Shatru Sinha

Thank you for that post - Along the same lines we now discover that the godhra train incident was a case of a fire being set or developing from within the train, deliberate or a tragic accident we don`t know, yet.

Hopefully this will give Indians cause to think about the direction ceratin powers in India hope to take India in.

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Re: tahmad321

Yes! I agree with your assessment of Musharraf correcting a few problems and then stepping aside. On the points you mentioned, I would agree and suggest that would be the most preferable option.

Cynically speaking, I did not reply to your ethnic egoism comment, because I abhor the principle of ethnic differences in Pakistan. A long time ago, I was educated in the ethnic differences, which seperate us as a nation, when a person of South Asian decent appraoched me and asked whether I was an Indian. When I replied that I was a Pakistan, he seemed taken aback and then said that he was from Sindh and asked what was my home province. Then came the city followed by the neighborhood etc.

That experience taught me that Pakistanis` sense of nationalism is limited to their city and provinces and they still think of themselves as Sindhis or Punjabis first and then as Pakistanis. All political parties in Pakistan represent this thinking and personally speaking, I think that the issue of provincialism has really undermined the nature of nationalism in Pakistan. Pakistanis know what provincialism is and what are the rights of the provinces, but they do not know what is nationalism and what is the right of the nation, which has to be acknowledged.

Ciao

re Field Marshal ROmair #159:

Aetzaz Ahsan is not the messiah Pakistan is looking for. As for his not being embroiled in any financial scandal, there are many reasons. Chief amongst them are his relationships by marriage of his young ones(Harvard,McGill BTW) to a couple of very influential (ex)-Generals and bureaucrats. Add to that the fact his legal expertise is available to any scoundrel willing to pay his six/seven figure fee (you know guys like ex-Navy chief Admiral Mansurul Haq and steel mills curators Salman and Usman Fs) and he`s more trouble NAB probably wants to deal with right now. He knows where all the troublesome bodies are buried.

Sure he went to Cambridge and sure he topped the civil services exam. But the FM has no idea how feudal his background really is. I couldn`t stop laughing at the irony of someone proclaiming ``feduals living off the sweat of little children`` recommending one of the same as the future leader of the PPP. Long live the Field Marshal!!!!!!!!!!!!

Capt(Retd.) Haleem Siddiqui had a fun time in Nawaz Sharif`s time as his net worth probably quadrupled during that time. Once again he hasn`t been touched on account of his *services * rendered during the Nawaz era. Capt. Siddiqui was one of the leading go-betweens(alongwith Hamid Nawaz Chattha) between Nawaz Sharif and the Army generals. Now even the conqueror of its own people does have some respect for tradition doesn`t it?

later

-sac

Ferozk #163 You say in this post that ``if Musharraf wants to be a dictator, he should act as one. If he wants to be a democrat, he should resign and have elections``, and that is certainly different from what I thought you wrote in your earlier post (where I thought you were basically applauding dictatorship). Even your above statement is not very convincing though - either we need a dictator or we do not. If you really believe we do not, then you should not leave it up to what ``Musharraf wants``. An year or so ago, I had the opportunity to meet his finance minister Shaukat Aziz along with a small group of other Pakistanis and had advised him as follows: Musharaff should use his dictatorial powers to fix two or three big things that a civilian govt cannot fixed (and indeed were created by the military) and then step aside and let an elected govt run the country. He asked what these two or three big things were - I said, peace with India by settling on existing borders; striking hard on the religious extremists in Pakistan so they are no longer a dream of taking over Pakistan. I still say the same thing, and obviously my excellent advice was not followed. :-)

I see you did not have anything to say about the ethnic chauvinism I had pointed out was reflected in your post, although I seem to have peeved you off a bit. Too bad. I wish people on chowk were more forthcoming in admitting that they can make a mistake. It does not make you a lesser person by any means, and indeed makes you a better one.

Interesting to read about your father`s experience as CSP - I took the exam and spent one year in the academy and then quit the service and left for the US after I realized the services were being politicized under Bhutto and it was no longer the same kind of civil service that your father experienced. The old CSP did have some very fine people, men of calibre and character. Ayub damaged the service by pushing his yes men to the top, and Bhutto destroyed it by introducing lateral entrants. Another feather in Bhutto`s cap: I am being sarcastic of course, as you were at the start of your response to me. :-)

Ferishteh #158 Salams to you too. you write ``My name is Ferishteh and not Farishteh as it is pronounced in South Asia.`` Thanks for pointing this out - this is the second time this week I got this wrong (and Arab gentleman - in real life, not chowk - also pointed out that his name was Hussein with an ``e``, not Hussain with an ``a`` as I had addressed him in a note).

On ``Manouch`` (I have even forgotten his real name - you see I was in college in 1970, well before you were born - and as I mentioned in my previous post was using a ``Manouch`` as a convenient name), we lost contact after we left college. I did work closely with another Manouch - the name is real this time - more recently in the US. As for the ``Manouch`` of my college days, he seemed very well off - lived in a four star hotel with a girlfriend, also Iranian, while the rest of us lived in college hostels. The girlfriend was supposedly a student too, but would show up once every few days with - believe it or not - a small pet dog, and make-up thicker than exterior house paint on her face. Very strange. I assume they all made it to the US or Canada after the fall of the Shah.

You write ``My friends Kiyanis who claim be descended from Persian Kiyanis who settled in Jhelum dist of Panjab have mentioned to me that learning Persian is considered the pinnacle of refinement in Pakestan. Is that true?``

Used to be the case (no doubt due to the fact that Farsi was the court language in Mughal days). No more. My parents both could speak farsi, and spoke it with one another when they did not want us kids to understand what they were speaking. Nowadays, unfortunately the only Farsi speakers are those whose mother tongue it is, mostly in Baluchistan. All I know is ``Hal-i-shuma chitoray?``

you write ``EVen the greatest poet of Pakestan Allama Lahori wrote in Persian. ``

Do you call him Lahori in Iran? He is known as Allama Iqbal in Pakistan. In fact, our national anthem is also in farsi, and though it sounds nice no one understands it anymore.

you write ``Are you a Kiyani?`` No.

you write ``Other than that I hear that many Gilanis, Mazandaranis, Garzdezis and Hamdanis have made Pakestan their home and have prospered .``

That is true. Also Raza`s. I have a good friend from schooldays with that last name whose grandparents I think migrated from Iran. Gen. Raza, also from the same family, was a well-known Pakistani army officer who also was our ambassador to China. There are a number of intermarriages between Pakistanis and Iranians (in the days of the Shah we had a lot more exchange of army officers, workers and so on). Last week we had dinner at the house of such a Pak-Irani couple here in the US, and enjoyed some traditional Iranian food. Benazir Bhutto`s mother is Iranian. Also Gen. ?? (who was Pakistan`s foreign minister for many years) wife. My own wife`s granduncle is married to an Iranian lady. And my brother still employs an Iranian gentleman to help produce oriental rugs in Pakistan - the person came as a refugee to Pakistan after the mullahs took over in Iran, and is illiterate but a master craftsman in oriental rugs.

you write ``But I must add that Bilochis have not brought Pakestanis a good name in Iran, they are considered to be drug smugglers and generally are not very law abiding people. ``

Baluchis (as we spell their name) are indeed into drug smuggling. In Pakistan, they are also into car theft, kidnapping. And their tribal customs (where the tribal chief basically keeps his tribe backword while sending his own sons to the finest schools in the west) leave much to be desired. Fortunately, Baluchis are a lot more than that - they are a proud, fiercely independent people. My brother in law, who as a Pakistani army officer had to fight off a Baluch rebellion ten or fifteen years ago, tells me they are a very tough people, can keep walking in the desert long after their mules have died of thirst and exposure, and he had his hands full fighting them.

The Baluch are spread between Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan - so their drug smuggling does not represent Pakistan any more than it represents Iran or Afghanistan. Of course Pashtuns (in Afghanistan and Pakistan) are even bigger drug smugglers. And they have their own fine qualities as well.

Long post, but refreshing to talk of something other than India-Pakistan politics which seem to dominate chowk discussions. Regards.

Romair # 161

I have not lived in Iran. I am American. I have visited Iran a few times and I have cousins and other relatives to base the feedback on Iran.

I would say that any commentary on the state of Iran would also depend upon the person you are talking to.

Most of the educated youth are frustrated for sure. Especially people who read , hear and /or have visited other developed countries.

The elderly are cautious in their criticism. They are probably upset with too much of religious edicts in their lives but many would not care.

There is resentment against the Mollah class that if some accounts are to be believed is rising.

On the positive side , female literacy is thankfully still high compared to neighbours. Women participate actively in life.

Many did not exactly like the Shah but the youth are unsure if the revolution achieved anything substantial. Iran is also trying to back out of the situation created by the war. Add to that the fact that the popualtion is fast growing and the per capita is nowhere near where it was.

Khoda Hafez.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/

DNA TEST NAILS KASHMIR LIES



DNA TEST NAILS KASHMIR LIE



OUR CALCUTTA BUREAU Calcutta, July 16: Mandible and teeth of source (Grave I) belong to the biological son of Mrs Raja Bano; Humerus of source (Grave II) cannot be excluded of being brother of Ghulam Rasool; Humerus of source (Grave III) belongs to the biological father of Abdul Rasheed; Teeth of source (Grave IV) belongs to the biological father of Shakoor Khan; Femur of source (Grave V) belongs to the biological father of Aijaz Ahmad...

A ?confidential? document concluding with these lines left Park Circus, Calcutta, earlier this month. On Tuesday, it took centrestage in the Kashmir Assembly, with the Central Forensic Science Laboratory (CFSL) report being tabled by chief minister Farooq Abdullah.

The DNA findings ?clearly established? that the five people killed by securitymen following the Chattisinghpora massacre of 35 Sikhs in March 2000 were all local civilians and not foreign militants. ?The deceased were not foreign terrorists as claimed by the forces who led the operations, but they were innocent civilians,? said Abdullah.

?In view of the gravity of the offence as well as the attempt made by certain officials to destroy the evidence and to ensure fair investigation, I have recommended that the case be taken up by the CBI,? he added.

Abdullah also assured ?ex-gratia relief as per rules within two days? to the next of kin, with ?one dependant of each victim to be absorbed in government service within a week?.

CFSL sources said the findings were ?conclusive? as the tests were carried out ?as per international standards?. It was one of the ?toughest cases? as ?the bodies were burnt, buried, exhumed and buried again before being finally exhumed, over a period of two years?.

This, they say, brings the curtains down on the DNA drama that began soon after the killing, on the eve of then US President Bill Clinton?s visit.

The police had blamed the attack on the Harkat-ul Mujahideen and Lashkar-e-Toiba. Ashok Bhan, inspector-general of police of Kashmir, had said that ?terrorists hiding in Gujjar ?kothas? opened indiscriminate fire on a joint party of police and Rashtriya Rifles at Pathribal- Panchalthan in Anantnag district on March 25, 2000?.

He later claimed that ?five foreign terrorists? were killed in retaliatory action, but it was impossible to identify the victims as the ?kothas? were completely gutted and the bodies charred beyond recognition.

Under pressure to identify the victims, the Jammu and Kashmir police sent bone and tissue samples to Calcutta. But CFSL officials found ?several discrepancies? and sent back the samples, stating that they had been ?tampered with?.

For months, the Kashmir government kept the CFSL snub under wraps, say sources in the Calcutta laboratory. When the ?DNA fudge? became public, it caused a furore in Kashmir with residents of Pathribal-Panchalthal and adjoining areas claiming the five victims had gone missing a day before the security forces claimed to have killed the ?five foreign mercenaries?.

In March this year, the government requested CFSL and the Centre for DNA Fingerprinting and Diagnostics, Hyderabad, to ?personally collect? the samples. Dr A.K. Sharma and S. Sathyan from CFSL went to Kashmir ?under extraordinary security cover? in April to bring back the samples.



http://www.telegraphindia.com/

SameerJB, #3

Ibn-é Khaldun got to them with his theory of the rise and fall of civilizations. Once down, the Muslims didn`t seem to believe in `cycling` back to higher plains.

Thus, the Cyclical nature of his theory did not `affect/apply to` the Muslims. They have been down ever since, i.e., since their first fall --a fall, developed from within, as the law of ``cultural dominance`` tells us.

No, I shall not develop here this thought further. I am too old to take on such tasks in their entirety all at the same time.

Shall develop it further one of these days, but somebody else would surely do it in the interim, I am sure.

Dua-é khair.

SameerJB, #3

Ibn-é Khaldun got to them with his theory of the rise and fall of civilizations. Once down, the Muslims didn`t seem to believe in `cycling` back to higher plains.

Thus, the Cyclical nature of his theory did not `affect/apply to` the Muslims. They have been down ever since, i.e., since their first fall --a fall, developed from within, as the law of ``cultural dominance`` tells us.

No, I shall not develop here this thought further. I am too old to take on such tasks in their entirety all at the same time.

Shall develop it further one of these days, but somebody else would surely do it in the interim, I am sure.

Dua-é khair.

KhanSaheb kehnday paye ne ke Pakistanis are ToTa loving people. they like ToTa. they Love ToTas. They life to live with ToTa. ToTa lokk, ToTa pasand karde ne te ToTay naal rehna chahnday ne.

ToTa ToTa ho gai ke.

DullaBhatti - not a ToTa.:-)

Romair,

#149

OK pal, you win..

I`m begging you...who the HELL is this Madhuri you keep harping about? is she like..some kind of RAW agent or what?!:))

Re: tahmed321

Thank you for your support...I agree that you are lot closer to the Pakistani reality living half a world away! LOL

Secondly, my contention, which you have misjudged in your sense of acute emotionalism, was that if Musharraf wants to be a dictator, he should act as one. If he wants to be a democrat, he should resign and have elections, let the people elect whom they want and then let them rule or misrule till the end of their elected term.

He cannot have have his cake and gobble it up also!

My father belonged to the Pakistani Civil Service batch of 1949. He would always say that that his best years of service were from 1949 till the time Ayub Khan came to power and enforced martial law. In that sense, that he knew, unlike the other Pakistani bureaucrats, who followed after Ayub Khan what it was like to work in a democracy and serve the people!!!

He always told the generals of Pakistan, either you are a dictator and thus, act as one or you are a democrat, in which case resign and restore the parliament. He was always OSD since the time of Ayub Khan. He fell out of favor with Z. A. Bhutto, because of Bhutto`s attempt to politicalize the civil service. When Zia came to power, my father was reinstated, but again made an OSD, because he told Zia, in Islamabad while having tea with him, that his Afghan policy was wrong and Pakistan would heavily pay for it and Zia`s policies of Islamization. This was in 1981. He told Zia that we are all Muslims and we know it and we do not need a constitutional amendment to prove ourselves as Muslims.

He was transfered to the Pakistani Embassy in Ottawa, Canada so that he would be out of Zia`s way.

So, before you accuse me of supporting dictators, I thought you should know the facts that I will speak my mind! I come from a family, which is well known in Pakistan and I support Musharraf, because in the present reality, there is no other chioce. Like I said, I am a populist by choice, but a realist by necessity and a cynic by experience!

Ciao

binifer #155
`` doesnt make em any cattier than you, does he?``

If you mean God, well firstly it may be a she, or an it and secondly he/she/it may know which remark you are talking about, but not being God I donot.