Of Evil Zionists and the Great Satan

Dear all, off the topic of this article, there`s an online petition, condemning the horrible gang rape in Multan, I think all people of Pakistani origin should sign up.

The link is: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?PakUnite&51

re kafir khan

``Merge Palestine, `with forced compaction`, with Jordan. Fusion of Gaza strip with Egypt. This solves Middle East problem. Jerusalem under Israel.``

Hear, hear! I strongly support a Palestinian state, not two. One already exists-it is called Jordan. The rest of this `Palestine` nonsense is more a geographic abstraction than an ethnic-national thing. The last thing the world needs is a PLO statelet which makes suicide bombings and wanton terrorism a nationally protected sports.

Opinion Pages

I SEE MORE HINDIANS QUOTING DAWN ,JUNG & fdt ,PRESUMABLY SHOWING THERE UNBIASED COMMENTARY THAT HINDIANS COME TO EXPECT & ENJOY ..FOR aRJUN ,AKASH,HARIMOU ,UNKAL JAY,RDESIKAN ,& OTHER WELL WISHERS OF PAKISTAN

The monkey and secularism

Dr A.H. Khayal

India calls itself a secular state. It is a colossal lie. A state is what the majority of its population is and what its rulers are. If the majority of the population of a state is Catholic and its rulers are also Catholic then it is a Catholic state. If the majority of the population of country consists of atheists and the rulers are also atheists then the country is a Godless country.

In India overwhelming majority of the population consists of fanatical Hindus and its rulers have also been fundamentalist Hindus. The Indian prime minister is the all powerful chief executive of the country. No wonder, every prime minister has always been a staunch Hindu. Calling India a secular state is like calling the Vatican a secular state. The Indian president is a political eunuch. Naturally, the fanatical Hindus do not mind having a non-Hindu as a president to make a fool of the world.

A genuine secular state is a state whose supreme rulers do not have a religion at all. They are as religionless as the elephant is wingless. If a Hindu prime minister of India claims that he does not allow his religion to interfere in his political affairs he is a superb liar. Perhaps he wants us to believe that when he leaves for his office, he strips himself of his religious fanaticism and locks up the fanaticism in his wardrobe and gets to his office completely dereligionised.

http://www.nation.com.pk/image/b.gif http://www.nation.com.pk/image/t.gif

semipreciousme #35: What happened to that girl/lady is an off-shoot of the feudal/tribal mentality of Pakistan. This is why I have always stated that feudalism/tribalism has to be removed from Pakistan, in any sort or form; even if it has to be done by force.

I think the govt. is taking quite aggressive action in this case. That is to be commended. It has become a national issue, and everyone wants the culprits punished. The Supreme Court and the ministers are personally involved. This is a good sign. I cannot recall this happening on any such case, previously.

Luckily (if that word can be used here), the criminals weren`t powerful feudals (although they maybe operating under the umbrella of powerful feudals/tribals). Had that been the case, then it would have been more difficult to take action against them.

Although this is an extreme case, I am somewhat surprised that people are so shocked over it. Anyone, like myself, who has had the opportunity to live in remote parts of Pakistan (I spent quite a bit of time stationed in rural Punjab) has seen the plight of the average villager, under the control of the feudals and landowner and his henchmen. It is quite disgusting. These people appoint their own favorite inspectors, assistant commissioners etc. to their areas. They are themselves MPAs, MNAs etc. And anyone who can hang onto their coattails, under their protection, can do anything they want, i.e. they can get away literally with murder and rape.

All of this starts from the top, i.e. political power, and trickles downhill to attitudes which reek with tribalism and feudalism. I am absolutely convinced that this mentality cannot be removed at the grassroots level, unless it is removed at the top political levels.

The next time people support Ivy league educated feudals/tribals for National Assembly seats, they should think about what happens in the lands these people own, and think about this girl/lady (I just read on the Internet that she maybe 30 years old).

I think only one of the rapists has been caught. The other three are on the lose. I can`t imagine any of the decisions (like the ones given by this tribal jury) could have been made, had they not felt they enjoyed the protection of the higher-ups (tribal leaders/feudals).

This incident, in a nutshell, represents everything that is wrong with the tribal/feudal mentality in Pakistan. Had there been a feudal govt. in Pakistan, this would have been swept under the carpet. After all, this isn`t the first time, something like this has happened.

RSexana #31: ``first you wanted shrinker to post a picture of himself in a thong, now you`re all over this...interesting...``

Actually, Ras specifically mentioned his picture, thereby indicating he wanted people to look at it. And he was pictured in the, ``intellectual`` pose, a la Allam Iqbal and Khaled Ahmad, with his chin on his fist.

And Shankar himself was eager to let everyone know that he has certain talents to offer and display, which, according to him, require a thong.

So, it is actually more a case and desire of exhibitionism on the part of the above-mentioned folks; not really an interest in my part.

Then again, if Shankar would let Ras borrow his thong.....that could be interesting......

Loved your work - a good read. For that compliment I would like to know a little something, please :
- what are your fav. authors / books + the most recent works you read.

Now to some criticism (hope you have already answered my inquiry above)
The answer to the problems of people who proclaim to be ``Muslims`` does not lie in treating it as a problem of ``Muslims``. Each individual who was born / converted to Islam needs to do his/her own thinking. They need basic skills like : an independent, critical mind (independent of families, societies, holy books and holy men and deities). You have to start treating yourself on the level of ``human`` and life instead of ``Muslim`` / ``Sunni`` / ``Syed Khandan(family)``/ ``falana tribe``.

It is far too easy to curse the darkness than to light a candle. Instead of blaming the west/ terrorizing the west - blaming our governments/ terrorizing our governments is the easy way out. Governments will fall in line when we reform ourselves as individuals (become independent, critical minds)

All the rest : taking responsibility, harmonious coexistance etc. will spring from that. Doing this will be tough. You will go through lots of disillusionment (as deprogramming of old values kicks in) and loss of self esteem even but then out of the self questioning mind will appear a better, kinder, nobler, stronger being.

Anika Zaidi #41

I have bad news for you. Nonsensical ravings that include statements like

[quote]

In India overwhelming majority of the population consists of fanatical Hindus and its rulers have also been fundamentalist Hindus.

[end-quote]

merely indicate that the author has some kind of serious mental disorder. Further, that a major newspaper publishes such an article makes everyone in the world worry even more about the country and society from which it originates.

The gang rape of that hapless peasant girl is rightly making headlines across the world. Hopefully, the courts will take such action as to strongly discourage repitions of such wanton acts of cruelty.

Now, while gang rape has enough shock value to make the front pages of local newspapers and drive people into action, one hopes the somewhat less sensational extra-judicial killing of blasphemy victims also generates enough disgust and will for political change, and see the perpetrators of these crimes brought to book swiftly. (I`m thinking, stone THEM to death. That would be a just Islamic punishment, wouldn`t it? No sarcasm intented here.)

btw, i`m referring to the latest of such killings that occured just yesterday in Faisalabad. See Dawn(.com) for details.

Those given to knee-jerks please note: No attempt is being made to malign Islam here. Our friend Sattar(2) has ably pointed out the unIslamicity of blashemy laws as they stand, and certainly of punsihments they way they are often exacted.

That was a great article with a lot of introspection.

Societies that picked up and decided to resurrect themselves from the ground up however calamitous their situation was, have succeeded spectacularly. Examples are post WWII Germany and Japan, Singapore, Korea and now China.

The Arab and Muslim world have found themselves on top of unbelievable wealth which they could have used to build societies that should have left the countries I mentioned above in the dust. It didn`t happen. Why?

Because they were also blessed with leaders who were so short sighted that they couldn`t figure out that ``cultural tradition`` only is no basis on which to build a modern, just and equitable society. That doesn`t mean that their culture should be jettisoned at the alter of modernity. Japan is a successful example of a society that melded it`s ancient culture with cutting edge modernity. The Arab and Muslim countries could have done the same but didn`t.

Why has a small sliver of land called Israel got stuck in the throat of the Arab/Muslim world when the modern age is about ideas rather than boundaries? Because it has been such a successful lightning rod to deflect attention away from the assorted tyrants that rule the Muslim world that they are loath to let it be resolved. In essence, the Arab/Israeli conflict is just fine by them as long as it simmers at a point that is high enough that it can never be solved but doesn`t get so high that it burns them into a crisp.

I think 9/11 has brought matters to a head and there is going to be a solution to the problem one way or another. Let`s hope that it is a just and equitable one.

Here is a post by a Pakistani lady from another website.

[The heinous crime of gang rape of an innocent girl to revenge the ‘love crime’ of her brother is discussed by many here – without even trying to look into the real causes. your anger is right but your failure to understand the underlying causes is telling. let us start from the beginning. a young boy and girl are caught in a ‘compromising situation’ – this is what started the chain of events that ended so shamefully. what should have been the right thing to do? Murder the girl – honor killing? Beat both girl and boy’s brains out? What? And Why? Why such uproar, such revengeful punishments? Why?

Only because, in our society, in our religion – women, girls – are considered a property of a family. We have placed the burden of sharam and heya on them. We have designated them the role of a mother and a sister. Our ideal girl is the one who never raises her voice, shows no signs of any kind of independence from whatever a male dominated society and religion has decided for her. They have no independent identity as a person. They are the property of the whole Ummah. We keep them covered in purdah. Even when we need them to go out and work or study, we expect them to keep their heads and other attractive parts of their bodies covered. We do not allow them to mix with men or boys. Half of Islam’s criminal laws is designed to keep the men and women in separate circles in the society. Chaddar and Chaardeewari are our ideals. They are not just women. They are ‘our’ women from a man’s point of view. No one can look at them, no one can touch them. No one can dare to come close to them – without men’s permission who own them – their fathers, brothers husbands.

In a society based on this idea of men as owners and protectors of women – there will always be these problems – not always leading to a gang rape or honor killing – but lesser and different atrocities. Our lives, women’s live, in a society ruled by religious principles and as a result by men will always be a story full of atrocities, form birth to death. As long as women have a secondary role in society, one dominated by men, this will continue. This concept of sharam and heya is just a form of slavery – women are slaves of this concept – and live all their lives in fear for this. In all Islamic and other religiously society women are slaves of men. When they overstep – are caught with a boy – the who family, caste, tribe is put to shame. Then there is no limit to anger. In the old days, when Islamic society was more pure, the couple was put to death by stoning by their neighbors. Their crime is never their own shame. It is the shame of their families and extended families who own them and of the whole society of whole ummah.

Unless women get equal – I mean EQUAL – rights. Unless they have the same freedoms, the same status that men have – their problems cannot be solved. An outdated moral code, an outdated religious code, an outdated family code and outdated social laws are ruling women’s lives. We are shocked by the public humility of a girl – but trust me – majority of the girls in Islamic society have to bear thousands of humilities – big and small – all their lives. We all keep quite on these – because we have accepted it. We are only shocked by what makes headlines. As long as we will only and only accept women as sisters, mothers or daughters – and will not recognize them as individuals, and give them same individual right sand freedoms that are given to men – they will always be a problem for the society.

P.S. I have talked about women in general in Islamic societies. There are always exceptions of educated liberal families and women.]

Islamic Renaissance? Forget it!!!!!

Romair: Here is another example of ``feudalism`` in practice and thanks to Musharraf government that this case is also not pushed under the carpet by influential stone throwers.

[The daily Jang reported today that one man is stoned to death becuase he disrespected Quran. Several hundred people took part in stoning him and finally he died.]

Muslamano aik rastey se aao aur dosrey raste se jao. Doran-e-stoning ba awaz-e-bulund takbeerat paRthe jao............

How could disrespecting Quran be part of Islam when Quran was finally compiled and written down some 20-40 years after Mohammad`s death and only 2 or three copies existed by the time Ali was assassinated?

This is feudalism/ tribalism at its worst, transplanted in its original form!!!

Semi Precious,

I just don`t know. The other equally tragic and disturbing part of this story is that the eleven year old boy was raped as well by individuals from the other tribe. Why did this happen?

I watched a news clip on BBC last night that said that at least 20 women were gang raped in this area in one month and that the police were lax in protecting women and children from this insanity.

My suggestion is the same one as always; Pakistani Americans MUST organize around these issues and let the Pakistani embassies, govt. and people know that from where we are, this situation of gang raping and lawlessness is absolutely inacceptable and must be dealt with immediately. This is not a criticism of conscious Pakistanis, but perhaps one means of leverage of addressing what is emerging as an extremely disturbing crisis for women and children in rural areas. Hopefully Pakistani and Pakistani American orgs. can coalition on this and other issues.

I agree with the interactors who have written that the issue of women, at least half of Pakistan`s population, and the human rights abuses they are subjected to daily should be the first item on an agenda of what Pakistan needs to think about.

re:Reply #: 41

Anika Zaidi,

Some of us Indians in chowk quote Paki newspapers to convince some Pakistanis about the bona-fides of the news (some in this chowk are more prone to believe the news if it is quoted in their own newspaper than in an Indian newspaper).

The article that you posted tries to critically analyse if India is secular and fails miserably. Such a critical analysis is lacking in most cases. Some like Ayaz Amir, Najam Sethi, some others who write in TFT do a good job now and then.By and large, i am not very much impressed. If i see a retd army fellow as the author of a piece, i just move on. I know this guy is more likely to be biased than the rest of the crowd (there are of course exceptions).

I read the article that you have posted. This is not objective but just accusatory.

Here are some excerpts from that article to prove my point. The author says:

``A genuine secular state is a state whose supreme rulers do not have a religion at all. They are as religionless as the elephant is wingless. If a Hindu prime minister of India claims that he does not allow his religion to interfere in his political affairs he is a superb liar.``

See the jump? The author says that a secular state should not have a Supreme Court with a religion (whatever that means; Supreme court judges are also human beings and need religion as much as anyone else; The court however should not be biased in terms of religion). Then he jumps from the Judiciary (which is what the Supreme court is)to the Executive branch of the Govt (which is what the P.M represents). If P.M is not secular, it is the duty of legislative branch to put things in perspective. It has done this from time to time. Babri Masjid issue is a case in point. Supreme court avoided a big clash between the 2 communities when it ordered VHP and others not to go ahead with Shilanyas sometimes ago in the disputed area. It thus put Secularism on a firm footing. VHP and its goons did not dare to defy the Supreme Court order.

Please do not just quote articles to score points. See if the article is well written and makes any sense. This article that you posted on the chowk clearly does not.

Sridhar

The leadership to start Islamic Renaissance has finally emerged from Tunisia beating out Ben Ibn Musharraf by almost 5 points. From an op-ed:

The leadership for Islamic Renaissance is the Club of 98 Percent Vote Presidents. All of these presidents begin with a coup, go through a referendum and end their careers disgracefully. They come in many different packages but they all have one thing in common: They love to be called the elected President. But no matter how many times they get ``elected``, their desire is never satiated. They remain hostages to a perpetual crisis of legitimacy. They want the whole world to recognize them as Mr President so they invite foreign journalists to cover their referendums and elections, but no matter how much money they spend on these efforts, no one seems to give them any title other than the one they deserve: usurpers.

But the 98 percent vote presidents are getting tired of this farcical exercise. This is evident from what Mr Zine Al-Abidine Ben Ali of Tunisia did last May. He produced a fantastic version of election farce: He got himself elected with 99.52 percent vote, along with a ``constitutional package of changes`` which makes him ``president`` of Tunisia until 2014!

Not only are the numbers, 99.5 percent, fantastic, it also beats all records. Whether the club of 98 percent presidents had pre-approved this number or not, it has certainly put Hosni Mubarak in a difficult position because he had struggled so hard to pull up 98 percent votes, one whole percent in front of Saddam Hussein`s outrageous 97 percent.

All of this is, of course, for the sake of democracy. In the words of Algerian foreign minister, Abdelaziz Belkhadem, the recent election will ``allow the emergence of a democratic system respectful of human rights, freedom of speech and political pluralism``.

Romair says:

Although this is an extreme case, I am somewhat surprised that people are so shocked over it. Anyone, like myself, who has had the opportunity to live in remote parts of Pakistan (I spent quite a bit of time stationed in rural Punjab) has seen the plight of the average villager, under the control of the feudals and landowner and his henchmen.

...................

Granted it isn`t the first time something like this has happened, but does that mean that we should just read, or listen to the news..and just say `this is happened before` with no visible or audible reaction? This outrage was publicized more so in the British press it seems than the Amreekan press..but think of all the outrages that have NOT been recorded, that are happening. Why should there be surprise at our shock and outrage? Why should we not be shocked, and wonder as semipreciousme does about the next time, and the next time that this occurs?

Any members of a panchayat and any higher-ups that would support such a jahil action such as the rape of a young woman need to be removed and punished. I`m not taking away from the plight of an average villager, but let us not minimize what this woman went through, what so many women have been through, and will continue to go through if jahilia continues to dictate the law, by voicing our surprise at our shock. Bade aaye ye log izzat/honour ka bar bar zikr karte hue...I really have to wonder if they have even the slightest inkling as to what honour means.

Don`t be so surprised at our shock Romair, there are still those of us out there, who feel that there is value to a human life. I`m not implying that you don`t..but thanks for reinforcing the grim picture most of us know already exists.

AND INDIA MARCHES ON....

The great news is that Simputer is now finally ready. Developed by the scientists of prestigious IISc Bangalore, it is a simple, cheap, multilingual hand held computer meant to bridge the digital divide. It is so simple that even the illiterate population of India would be able to operate it with little training. Moreover, it is multilingual; hence even someone who doesn`t know English can use it. India has 80 million people who have TV and cable connections but only 7 million people who have Computers. Anybody who can buy a TV should also be able to buy this Rs 10,000 Simputer for the benefit of his children. Let this Simputer reach the millions in the small towns and villages where the 60% of Indian population lives.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/07/05/india.simputer.reut/index.html

BANGALORE, India (Reuters) -- India is ready this month to roll out its $200 ``Simputer,`` a handheld computer aimed at wooing the poor across the digital divide.

``The waiting period is almost over. We are near the take-off stage,`` Vinay Deshpande, chairman of Encore Software Ltd., one of two firms with licenses to make the device, told Reuters late on Thursday.

The Simputer -- short for simple, inexpensive and multilingual computer -- was launched in April 2001 by the non-profit Simputer Trust, formed by officials at Encore and professors from Bangalore`s prestigious Indian Institute of Science to license designs of the device.

The Simputer, which has been delayed by funding problems and marketing concerns, aims to help India`s poor and rural folk who cannot read or write, but high-end users and overseas buyers have also been wowed by its features.

Resembling trendy handhelds such as those built by Palm Inc, the Simputer has easy-to-use applications including voicemail, text-to-speech capabilities and Internet access.

Powered by an Intel StrongARM processor, the Simputer runs off two `AA`-size pencil batteries and comes equipped with 32 megabytes (MB) or 64 MB of random-access memory.

``In our trials, we found that `one size fits all` doesn`t work because it also means one price and one particular configuration,`` said Deshpande, an engineer educated at Stanford University in the U.S., who is a pivotal figure in the trust.

``We are now making a range of Simputers with different configurations and prices ranging from 10,500 to 23,000 rupees,`` he said. Equivalent to roughly $214 to $469, this figure compares to average annual Indian per capita income of about $450.

......

PCs are relatively costly in India. At about $200, the Simputer would be three times cheaper than a PC, and cost nearly the same as a cheap color television set.

``We are in the process of making about 200 Simputers this month and about 1,300 to 1,400 by September based on potential and existing orders,`` Deshpande said.

Using free-to-use Linux software, the device allows personal data to be stored through a smart card, enabling many users to share it.

Sales of the Simputer are likely to rise to 50,000 by late 2003, Deshpande said.

``The profit is not in delivering hardware but solutions (for end use),`` Deshpande said.

``We are tying up with software developers who`ll make applications and we`ll deliver that box with the solutions.``

Trial sales have already been made to a number of countries including Sweden, Australia, France, United States, he said.