Worldwide India-Pakistan peace movement begins?

busharraf #268 I am not alone in my support for your views. I think the vast majority of people in India and Pakistan support your views on the need to end this senseless feud (that benefits only the military generals in Pakistan, and the extremists under Advani in India). While I wish people like shankar would be more forthcoming in their support for your words (rather than being sidetracked by idle and stupid accusations by some chowk posters of your identity), I know from past interactions with shankar and many others on chowk that what you say rings true with them.

So, not to worry. :-)

Busharraf:

``Don`t forget that it was Iqbal who wrote ``Saare jahan se accha, Hindustaan Hamaara``!!! Why cant we be one people again?``

you mean with the southies too ? can they understand Iqbal ? are you sure about this ?

``If we can unify there should be no compulsion to change our beliefs (i.e., change from Muslim to Hindu, or vice versa).``

Can we convert more untouchables to Islam ?

``There is no need to revert to anything but if one feels like it there should be no dishonour to return to our past beliefs.``

Maybe for the ex-Brahmins like Iqbal`s family..but what about the untouchables who became Muslims.. I mean do they want to become untouchables again ??

``For example, if Hindus respect the cows then we should not slaughter them, out of respect for them.``

What about beef nihari, beef kababs, gola kabab, dum ka keema... this is our culture too. We respect beef, not cow :)

`` They should also not insult us by slaughtering and eating swines.``

I`m not insulted. You can buy pork in Pakistan in certain supermarkets that cater to foreigners. There are separate pork sections in stores in Dubai, Bahrain and some other Arab nations.

Busharraf, you are a man ahead of your times living in the past, an oxymoron. You talk about Indians and Pakistani living together because they are the same people. You ignore the fact that everyone in the world is the same people, if you get my drift.

Keep the discussion alive!

Busharraf``We have to be the change that we want to bring to this world, as some famous person said (I can`t remember whom).``

That was Michael Jackson`s song `the man in the mirror`

Thank you, tahmed321 mian, for your kind support and encouragement. I was, however, quite surprised and also very discouraged when all the anger against KhanSahib`s several posts started to turn against me, and people started to link me to KhanSahib and suggest that he and I were the same person. This absurd conclusion is without merit. Please note that I was not the one using the profane language or making any illogical and absurd conclusions or statements. However, I did express my personal views and findings of my personal research about “us” as a people, who also live in the Indian Sub-continent. I sort of knew my fellow Pakistanis would not support this stand but I have to be honest to my self and that is why I said what I did. I also do not expect my fellow Pakistani citizens to immediately subscribe to my views, as I know many of us have been conditioned into thinking that we are somehow different in origin from our Indians brethren. I again say that we have a lot more in common than our Arab and Persian neighbours. We share a common history and culture and we are one people, in spite of our antagonistic stand towards each other. We have been told over and over again that we are different but I submit that we are not. A lie repeated a thousand times…

Nevertheless, I really appreciate your generosity in acknowledging (accepting) me for who I am. I understand that you may not completely agree with me but at least you are willing to listen and offer constructive comments. I am glad to have you as my only friend (supporter) on Chowk.

One can be of any religion or faith but using such dirty profanity in an indiscriminate manner, as KhanSahib has in his recent post #241, is degrading to our faith. You have also wisely pointed this out previously. Now I should also be more circumspect in my behavior as I do not want to be accused of such acts, even though I too have used profanity in my very early posts. But that was only to stress my point and was not meant to abuse anyone in particular.

The aim of all the posts to the original article by Ras Siddiqui has taken so many twists and turns that it no longer addresses the original topic that was presented by him. In this regard, I feel that there are too many misconceptions between Pakistanis and Indians. There is a lot of distrust and hatred. Personally, I am very tired of all this anger and hate between our two people and countries. When will it all end? We have to be the change that we want to bring to this world, as some famous person said (I can`t remember whom).

Sometimes, it seems that we will keep on fighting and not remember why we hate each other so much. This is really insane!! Someone said the idea of reunification is stupid. But that is how I feel personally. A couple of generations have passed but so what? Don`t forget that it was Iqbal who wrote ``Saare jahan se accha, Hindustaan Hamaara``!!! Why cant we be one people again?

If we can unify there should be no compulsion to change our beliefs (i.e., change from Muslim to Hindu, or vice versa). There is no need to revert to anything but if one feels like it there should be no dishonour to return to our past beliefs. After all this should be a personal choice. But first and foremost let us just try to get along and live in harmony. For example, if Hindus respect the cows then we should not slaughter them, out of respect for them. They should also not insult us by slaughtering and eating swines. I know this is just a minor point but it is a start. I am not any farishta but can`t we aspire for great things. The main thing is that we should just try to genuinely respect each other and try to understand each other. This was the original gist of the article by Ras Siddiqui, I thought? I support Ras mian`s original post for fostering unity among our people.

...busharraf and khansaheb are playing all of you like cheap flutes...haha...people, calm down...

Shankar, (#263) - My apologies to you - I meant to needle tahmed (ever so gently and in all good humour, you understand, tahmed :)) about his acceptance of Busharraf as a Pindiite, and addressed it to you instead. Your HUH!!? is entirely justified.

rsridhar #264 KhanSahib`s Karachi style gaalis may be echoed in Delhi, as you say. Fortunately, in the rest of Pakistan, our gaalis are much more vigorous-sounding than these pathetic, faggoty kind of karachi gaalis and unrealistic threats that KhanSahib could come up with. KhanSahib is living proof that even a panjabi starts acting queer if he lives in Karachi long enough.

Looks like I have stirred up a hornets nest.

I regret that I have have been the cause of so much grief amongst you all. It was not my intention. I just was expressing my opinion and personal findings. Now my own words are being used against me and claims are being made to my authenticity. I do not suspect your identity even though you hide behind the mask of made up usernames. Why do you suspect me? Just because someone else posts at the same time as me?

I guess in a world of so much falsehood, it is really difficult to know the ``asli`` from ``nakli``.

Also, I am not so stupid to give my address and phone number on this bulliten board. But, yes I was nieve to have give my real name previously. It just seemed that Chowk had honest people posting diverse opinions.

re: Khan Sahib`s 241

Khan Sahib has made my day. It also proves there is much in common between Indians and Pakistanis and this includes the ``gaalis``. Khan Sahib`s gaalis are not different from what an average Delhite would utter on an average day. I should know better, having spent a major part of my life in Delhi.

scouty,

I agree with you that Khan`s post was profane & it is hard for some to ``endure`` this. Nevertheless, for those who find it hard to endure profanity, there is always the freedom to scroll past such posts. There is no law on Chowk that we have to read each & every post. I feel Khan has the right to express his view (no matter how disagreeable it is), just as much as Busharraf.

For instance, I dont quite recall Jay ever using profanity. But his posts are just as offensive & insulting to many. If he can express his views here, why cant Khan?! If Khan is stupid enough to pop his cork whenever he encounters criticism, he will hang himself, eventually. Such guys make excellent ``bakras``:). My only advice to people is not to reveal too much of their identity; lest crackpots like him could track them down.

Some ``unsoliticted brotherly `` advice, if you dont mind. We HAVE to endure profanity because it is used in the real world. We cant go around in this life without encountering such language. We have the perogative & freedom NOT to associate with such people in our personal life. But to expect people not using profanity & make them shutup is unrealistic.

Chowk is a meeting place where we meet all kinds of people, from EVERY background . If we start excluding people we find ``unsavory``, then it becomes some sort of ``exclusive`` club..& not a reflection of the ``real`` world. If a Chowkies` behaviour turns us off, we have the choice NOT to talk to them & ignore their posts.

I think it was Zahra(?) who got so incensed with the language & behaviour of some posters that she threatened to SUE Chowk!! I think thats foolish. She left Chowk in a huff. She had a CHOICE not to interact with them. When she left, she deprived herself the opportunity to interact with posters who she DID like. Similarly, I would HATE to see samina leave Chowk if 12 head continues to annoy her. He wont leave, but the rest of us then will be deprived of the pleasure of hearing samina`s input.

Bottom line: as much as this kind of profanity may turn people off; we can get AROUND it...just like we get around it in real life.. Another thing, I think Chowk should post a warning ``For Adults Only!``:)

wadera,

HUH?!!!

tahmed,

These guys maybe fake or maybe real. I am just skeptical, thats all. I, personally, am hoping that they are for real. In fact, from the ``Indian`` standpoint, its heartwarming to know that there are Pakistanis like Busharraf, who are genuinely interested in burying the hatchet with India. I consider you in that category, as well. If he is for real, I certainly would like him to participate in Chowk & not get turned off because there are skeptics like me.

I do agree that there are Indian hatemongers on Chowk, who criticise Islam & Pakistan, who are counterparts to Khan ``sahib``. Jay et all may not be as colorfully profane as him, but they convey the same message.

In that seminal post #241..Khan sahib has demonstrated, once & for all, the character of all hatemongers..Indians & Pakistanis alike.. Let me go further & state I dont want him to leave, if he is genuine. After all, when we hear a tirade like that, he aptly demonstrates how hatemongers like him can put their foot in their mouths.

Ref Chunkey Pandey #: 250

[.....hey ..i like your new attitude ,keep it up & we can have krispy Kreme donuts then]

When I return to the US, I shall visit you with a dozen donuts: one for each of your nicks.

After eating them all, you will truly become chunkey.

Busharraf: As a fellow pindiite, I think you have stirred up the KhanSahib from Karachi as well as raised doubts concerning your identity in the minds of some of our friends from India, including Sadna who doesnt know any better and Shankar who I thought would know better. Not bad for one post!! As a fellow pindiite, I am very proud of you. :-)

PS: I am sure you will not hand out your phone number to anyone on chowk as requested by one of the posters - there are too many nutcases on chowk for that (stay long enough and you will find out).

KhanSahib #241 you write ``To all Chowkwallas who talk ill about Islam:``

There are a handful of Indian posters like Jay who claim that it is the Islamic religion that teaches evil things. The rest of us (self included) have pointed out that Islam teaches good things, and it is only a handful of evil people (and you seem to be one of them) who are trying to hijack Islam. So, your post should be directed towards them. Not to those who have exposed the vast distance between what you write in your posts and the message of Islam.

You write ``Haramzadon, tum ko Islam ke bare me talk karne ka haq he kya hai???! ``

In using an abusive word and Islam in the same sentence, you expose your own lack of respect for Islam. Do engage in insulting matches with your counterpart scum from India. Leave Islam out of it.

The rest of your post are the rantings and abuses of a man who can only be a follower of shaitan. Go and get your head checked.

shankar #251 I thought this board was now Resting In Peace in Chowk Board Heaven, but seems like it marches on like a zombie. I dont think either Busharaff OR KhanSahib are faking it. Being familiar with the Rawalpindi manner of speaking and of the Karachi manner of speaking, the two are genuine articles.

I have come across a few fakes from India posing as Pakistanis, and they immediately were exposed when they started throwing in a bit of vernacular and made themselves totally ridiculous. One cannot fake it for very long, even on an internet board like chowk.

In any case, unless clearly exposed in some manner (as these individuals were), I think each poster is entitled to being judged by what he/she writes and not labelled a fake by the rest of the posters who are writing anonymously anyway.

KhanSahib ``Aur humari gaand marna chata hai!!``

aap befikr rahain, aap ke ghand mahfooz rahay gee. Lekin agar Kashmir kayleeay aap ko gaand kee qurbani dainee paRee, day sakain gay ? sonch kar jawaab deejeay.