What it means to be me in Corporate America?
Aisha Sarwari July 19, 2002
#38 Posted by stuka on July 21, 2002 5:53:24 pm
Eklavya:
``On balance, a good effort``
?? Really??? You actually think this was a well written article?? Forget the politics, this was a poorly written piece, with no sense of cohesion.
``Keep the passion alive.``
You mean the hatred, right? I see no positive emotions in this outburst, only negative. Why do I get the feeling that the author would not even care about Pakistan, if India wasn`t next door?
``On balance, a good effort``
?? Really??? You actually think this was a well written article?? Forget the politics, this was a poorly written piece, with no sense of cohesion.
``Keep the passion alive.``
You mean the hatred, right? I see no positive emotions in this outburst, only negative. Why do I get the feeling that the author would not even care about Pakistan, if India wasn`t next door?
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#37 Posted by Godot on July 21, 2002 5:53:24 pm
Re: The Chowk Interactors
I`m quite sure the author of this article is that ubiquitous 12-head. One can tell that by not only how poorly this article written, but its lack of focus on a central idea. Poor grammar, bad command of the English language, the content that makes no sense, and the clueless author: the hallmark of the 12-head.
This article belongs in the garbage can. Its lack of intelligence should not offend anyone. It`s not worth a serious discussion.
I`m quite sure the author of this article is that ubiquitous 12-head. One can tell that by not only how poorly this article written, but its lack of focus on a central idea. Poor grammar, bad command of the English language, the content that makes no sense, and the clueless author: the hallmark of the 12-head.
This article belongs in the garbage can. Its lack of intelligence should not offend anyone. It`s not worth a serious discussion.
#36 Posted by Umer Murtaza on July 21, 2002 5:53:24 pm
Dear Aisha,
I suspect that this piece is more a conduit for channelling your frustration, as a youth, than anything else. I am, relatively speaking, young (ish-23) also and understand the frustration, for example, when a peaceful march of tens upon tens of thousands gets absolutely no media coverage and yet the pros and cons of greasy fried chips is aired on BBC. No $hit!
I felt the same frustration when I was part of a march myself and it was immaculately civilised. Yet, no coverage was given. Instead, the 50th anniversary of Basil the Fox was being celebrated. Oh, such joy. A man with his hand up a puppet`s ar$e got more coverage, and on a prestigious Channel too, then something of importance.
I felt the same frustration 10 years back in the days of being a greasy teenager when 117 racial attacks had been committed against Bangladeshis, Indians and Pakistanis. Yet, not one high profile paper reported the events. In those days of course, the brownies were bound together by the fear of racism, much like how different oils will become a single droplet if immersed in water. Desi culture had still to make its presence felt in the UK. That same year, one white boy was murdered by 11 Bengali youths and the news went around like an Amsterdam hooker on LSDs. My heart goes out to the mother of the lad but my sadness soured when she said, `Oh, we try so hard to live with them but they don`t want to live with us.`
And suddenly, the images of the youngsters who had been left crippled because of their $hit coloured skins, the houses, which had been smashed and burnt into, the women who had been dragged out and beaten in front of their helpless young sons and daughters - because they were `Pakis` - passed by. What happened to them? Were they not worthy of breakfast shows?
The days that passed, listening to the comments from the `9 a.m.-5 p.m. person` and how `these people didn`t know how to live with us,` I lost respect for the people at the top. What were they playing at, I wondered, pitting one person against the other. But I also lost a little respect for the public because they never tried to step out of their perceptual spheres and to see the other side of the story.
The same thing happened recently with the Burnley-Bradford-North England incidents when the media reported a group of Pakistanis (I think) saying that such and such places were their territories and that no white person was allowed. There were silent protests by everyone, including myself. `How would they feel if we went up to their countries and told them not to live here and there,` said one friend of mine. In no way am I justifying what the Pakistani youth had said but it wasn`t revealed that such things had been stated and aggressively imposed earlier by the BNP fascists and that the Pakistani youth had made the blockades in retaliation.
But by now the publics` mind was made up. `These Pakis/Muslims come to our country and blah blah blah.`
So your experiences are real and your frustration is valid, no matter what anyone else may say. However, it`s this channelling in the form of an article, and in my opinion only, that is a waste of time. Many of the replying posters are way past their sell-by-dates and are comparable to the types I have mentioned above. I apologise to anyone if I have offended you. I`m sure you are far worthier a person than I in almost every manner but you also lack certain qualities, perhaps because of your age, and will not understand the core of this article.
…As far as the India thing is concerned, Aisha, despite your sex, I detect this male version of competitiveness, that of jealousy and wanting to be better because someone else is better than you are. Stick to the female model, it`s far superior, which usually runs on the lines of competing against one`s self. Can`t remember who said it but you should choose your enemies wisely because you will end up like them. Need I say more?
Give up on India, Sarwari. I know there are disputes between the two nations but as far as I`m concerned, it`s just another country with its good and bad points. We share a lot in common but we also have our differences and these differences are not necessarily bad. Come on, Aisha, do you think it`s just the media? People are biased by nature. It`s in our cores to be biased and to b1tch behind someone else`s back, irrespectively. Allow me to give you a snippet of my experiences. I`ve heard Pakistanis call Bangladeshis kafirs because they choose to wear saris instead of shalwar kamiz. I`ve listened to Sikhs call Hindus behnchodes and still resent the 1984 incidents deep inside, despite hating J S Bindrawale. I have heard Hindus wanting to expel the dirty cousin fukkerz out of India, because they`ve been forcing Islam on everyone and looting and raping and pillaging. I`ve heard white girls take the pi$$ out of all the sad brown fuks who are so desperate to get inside their knickerz. Blacks have dissed whites, whites have dissed blacks. Some of them get married, then taunt each other about their histories, and divorce after 10 years. Arabs continue to pronounce white people as trash, then propose marriage to them.
Blacks, Indians, Pakistanis, Nepalese and Bangladeshis of the traditional variety do not feel anything like British, neither do they want to and hold no allegiance to it. Get a mixture of `the natives` in a group and they will discuss why these Indians are so keen trying to emulate them when they know they can’t truly be British. Nevertheless, it`s better to be in the company of an Indian who emulates them then the Pakis or the Bangers. The funniest one was hearing a Pakistani brethren asking me for what my caste was. When I said that as a Muslim I didn`t believe in castes, he slapped his forehead and said, `of course, yaar. Oh yaar, these bloody Hindus have given us castes.` He then continued to enlighten me by saying that the British were rich only, and only, because the Queen had stolen the koh-e-noor diamond. I stared at him like a lamb with its ears down. What did they do to the fckuing thing? Stick it in a matter-antimatter converter or something? The craziest thing is that all these people are genuinely `normal` (I think).
Working for the Samaritans gives you a real insight into the psychology of societies, as well as people. Believe me, people are so different from what they show themselves to be. It`s really ugly.
But again, this is strictly from my experiences and I will always challenge those beliefs.
I`m beginning to blabber now but what I`m trying to say is that people have their own fair share of problems. Ever person and every nation puts the other person down to make itself look better. We all b!tch behind each other`s back. When we are a little more confidant, we do it in front of the other person`s face. It`s not just the media. It`s the people. They want to be biased because they`re lazy and it`s more energetically demanding to continually question your beliefs or to challenge your perceptions. As a person, why would you want to give a damn about what someone else thinks when they have their own biases, agendas and their own problems. Trying to change their bias is a waste of time, time that could be spent somewhere more constructively.
So let`s wish India and the rest of the world the best of luck and continue on our paths. While there`s no shame in learning from and learning about others, we shouldn`t continually get into the `sheep walk` of emulating others or spend time worrying about what someone else thinks. Let`s just focus on our problems, work out creative solutions and what Pakistanis think about it and what little every Pakistani can do towards moving aside those obstacles. To hell with any and all of them; it`s not others problem and I don`t see why they should be entertained.
Best wishes.
Umer M.
I suspect that this piece is more a conduit for channelling your frustration, as a youth, than anything else. I am, relatively speaking, young (ish-23) also and understand the frustration, for example, when a peaceful march of tens upon tens of thousands gets absolutely no media coverage and yet the pros and cons of greasy fried chips is aired on BBC. No $hit!
I felt the same frustration when I was part of a march myself and it was immaculately civilised. Yet, no coverage was given. Instead, the 50th anniversary of Basil the Fox was being celebrated. Oh, such joy. A man with his hand up a puppet`s ar$e got more coverage, and on a prestigious Channel too, then something of importance.
I felt the same frustration 10 years back in the days of being a greasy teenager when 117 racial attacks had been committed against Bangladeshis, Indians and Pakistanis. Yet, not one high profile paper reported the events. In those days of course, the brownies were bound together by the fear of racism, much like how different oils will become a single droplet if immersed in water. Desi culture had still to make its presence felt in the UK. That same year, one white boy was murdered by 11 Bengali youths and the news went around like an Amsterdam hooker on LSDs. My heart goes out to the mother of the lad but my sadness soured when she said, `Oh, we try so hard to live with them but they don`t want to live with us.`
And suddenly, the images of the youngsters who had been left crippled because of their $hit coloured skins, the houses, which had been smashed and burnt into, the women who had been dragged out and beaten in front of their helpless young sons and daughters - because they were `Pakis` - passed by. What happened to them? Were they not worthy of breakfast shows?
The days that passed, listening to the comments from the `9 a.m.-5 p.m. person` and how `these people didn`t know how to live with us,` I lost respect for the people at the top. What were they playing at, I wondered, pitting one person against the other. But I also lost a little respect for the public because they never tried to step out of their perceptual spheres and to see the other side of the story.
The same thing happened recently with the Burnley-Bradford-North England incidents when the media reported a group of Pakistanis (I think) saying that such and such places were their territories and that no white person was allowed. There were silent protests by everyone, including myself. `How would they feel if we went up to their countries and told them not to live here and there,` said one friend of mine. In no way am I justifying what the Pakistani youth had said but it wasn`t revealed that such things had been stated and aggressively imposed earlier by the BNP fascists and that the Pakistani youth had made the blockades in retaliation.
But by now the publics` mind was made up. `These Pakis/Muslims come to our country and blah blah blah.`
So your experiences are real and your frustration is valid, no matter what anyone else may say. However, it`s this channelling in the form of an article, and in my opinion only, that is a waste of time. Many of the replying posters are way past their sell-by-dates and are comparable to the types I have mentioned above. I apologise to anyone if I have offended you. I`m sure you are far worthier a person than I in almost every manner but you also lack certain qualities, perhaps because of your age, and will not understand the core of this article.
…As far as the India thing is concerned, Aisha, despite your sex, I detect this male version of competitiveness, that of jealousy and wanting to be better because someone else is better than you are. Stick to the female model, it`s far superior, which usually runs on the lines of competing against one`s self. Can`t remember who said it but you should choose your enemies wisely because you will end up like them. Need I say more?
Give up on India, Sarwari. I know there are disputes between the two nations but as far as I`m concerned, it`s just another country with its good and bad points. We share a lot in common but we also have our differences and these differences are not necessarily bad. Come on, Aisha, do you think it`s just the media? People are biased by nature. It`s in our cores to be biased and to b1tch behind someone else`s back, irrespectively. Allow me to give you a snippet of my experiences. I`ve heard Pakistanis call Bangladeshis kafirs because they choose to wear saris instead of shalwar kamiz. I`ve listened to Sikhs call Hindus behnchodes and still resent the 1984 incidents deep inside, despite hating J S Bindrawale. I have heard Hindus wanting to expel the dirty cousin fukkerz out of India, because they`ve been forcing Islam on everyone and looting and raping and pillaging. I`ve heard white girls take the pi$$ out of all the sad brown fuks who are so desperate to get inside their knickerz. Blacks have dissed whites, whites have dissed blacks. Some of them get married, then taunt each other about their histories, and divorce after 10 years. Arabs continue to pronounce white people as trash, then propose marriage to them.
Blacks, Indians, Pakistanis, Nepalese and Bangladeshis of the traditional variety do not feel anything like British, neither do they want to and hold no allegiance to it. Get a mixture of `the natives` in a group and they will discuss why these Indians are so keen trying to emulate them when they know they can’t truly be British. Nevertheless, it`s better to be in the company of an Indian who emulates them then the Pakis or the Bangers. The funniest one was hearing a Pakistani brethren asking me for what my caste was. When I said that as a Muslim I didn`t believe in castes, he slapped his forehead and said, `of course, yaar. Oh yaar, these bloody Hindus have given us castes.` He then continued to enlighten me by saying that the British were rich only, and only, because the Queen had stolen the koh-e-noor diamond. I stared at him like a lamb with its ears down. What did they do to the fckuing thing? Stick it in a matter-antimatter converter or something? The craziest thing is that all these people are genuinely `normal` (I think).
Working for the Samaritans gives you a real insight into the psychology of societies, as well as people. Believe me, people are so different from what they show themselves to be. It`s really ugly.
But again, this is strictly from my experiences and I will always challenge those beliefs.
I`m beginning to blabber now but what I`m trying to say is that people have their own fair share of problems. Ever person and every nation puts the other person down to make itself look better. We all b!tch behind each other`s back. When we are a little more confidant, we do it in front of the other person`s face. It`s not just the media. It`s the people. They want to be biased because they`re lazy and it`s more energetically demanding to continually question your beliefs or to challenge your perceptions. As a person, why would you want to give a damn about what someone else thinks when they have their own biases, agendas and their own problems. Trying to change their bias is a waste of time, time that could be spent somewhere more constructively.
So let`s wish India and the rest of the world the best of luck and continue on our paths. While there`s no shame in learning from and learning about others, we shouldn`t continually get into the `sheep walk` of emulating others or spend time worrying about what someone else thinks. Let`s just focus on our problems, work out creative solutions and what Pakistanis think about it and what little every Pakistani can do towards moving aside those obstacles. To hell with any and all of them; it`s not others problem and I don`t see why they should be entertained.
Best wishes.
Umer M.
#35 Posted by roohi on July 21, 2002 5:53:24 pm
sadna #33
Everyone who is not American can probably identify with the misrepresentation of their ethnicity in the US. They are equal opportunity ignoromuses !! Have you ever been asked if you speak ``Indian``, what the ``dot`` is for, how to make ``curry``, snake-charmers, elephants, tigers, famines, floods, beggers etc.? They probably know more about Middle Earth than India !! Anyone talk to you in spanish ? (happens to me all the time)!
What I don`t get (as usual) about this young person is the passion with which she dislikes being associated with India. Is it because she is in the media business and therefore has to deal all the time with the stereotyping of Pakistanis, promoting the Pakistani world view, their confusion with Indians etc. ? Or is this common to most Pakistanis ?
I also recently read the authors article ``The Kashmir File`` on YLH`s homepage ... which to me was just shocking ... don`t know what happened to optimism, hope, happiness, love, ending world hunger, creating world peace and the other dreams the youth of my day used to indulge in ...
Everyone who is not American can probably identify with the misrepresentation of their ethnicity in the US. They are equal opportunity ignoromuses !! Have you ever been asked if you speak ``Indian``, what the ``dot`` is for, how to make ``curry``, snake-charmers, elephants, tigers, famines, floods, beggers etc.? They probably know more about Middle Earth than India !! Anyone talk to you in spanish ? (happens to me all the time)!
What I don`t get (as usual) about this young person is the passion with which she dislikes being associated with India. Is it because she is in the media business and therefore has to deal all the time with the stereotyping of Pakistanis, promoting the Pakistani world view, their confusion with Indians etc. ? Or is this common to most Pakistanis ?
I also recently read the authors article ``The Kashmir File`` on YLH`s homepage ... which to me was just shocking ... don`t know what happened to optimism, hope, happiness, love, ending world hunger, creating world peace and the other dreams the youth of my day used to indulge in ...
#34 Posted by soundmeister on July 21, 2002 5:53:24 pm
Ayesha,
Very honest and interesting article. I think the trick is to stop thinking of yourself in any ethnic context at all- Indian, Pakistani, Asian- whatever-- and just be as American as you can be. The tragedy is that unless your black or white or (lately) hispanic, you are gonna be an ``outsider``. Don`t matter if you call yourself Bob Rao or Jimmy Khan. The prejudice remains.
One would imagine otherwise but it`s even worse within the Indian community. A friend of mine was telling me how he was eased out of a group of fellow Wadala-wasis (Wadala is a predominantly Tamil Brahmin dominated suburb of Mumbai) because all the others in the group were Gujjus and they politely requested him to ``affiliate`` with the TamBrahm group instead. The guy was shattered, but given our amazing ability to retrogress in the page of newness, who can say it`s not expected.
I expect it`s pretty much the same in the Pakistani community. Watch Bend It Like Beckham for some amusing digs at this mindset of ours.
And chill. Maybe once you accept that you can`t change the world, life will be a lot simpler....
Cheers.
Very honest and interesting article. I think the trick is to stop thinking of yourself in any ethnic context at all- Indian, Pakistani, Asian- whatever-- and just be as American as you can be. The tragedy is that unless your black or white or (lately) hispanic, you are gonna be an ``outsider``. Don`t matter if you call yourself Bob Rao or Jimmy Khan. The prejudice remains.
One would imagine otherwise but it`s even worse within the Indian community. A friend of mine was telling me how he was eased out of a group of fellow Wadala-wasis (Wadala is a predominantly Tamil Brahmin dominated suburb of Mumbai) because all the others in the group were Gujjus and they politely requested him to ``affiliate`` with the TamBrahm group instead. The guy was shattered, but given our amazing ability to retrogress in the page of newness, who can say it`s not expected.
I expect it`s pretty much the same in the Pakistani community. Watch Bend It Like Beckham for some amusing digs at this mindset of ours.
And chill. Maybe once you accept that you can`t change the world, life will be a lot simpler....
Cheers.
#33 Posted by Karakoram on July 21, 2002 5:53:24 pm
Romair #19:
Nice post. I agree that this is a major growth, discovery, getting focused and clean-up period for Pakistan. I don`t believe we have had this much freedom of press before, could be wrong. All in all this period is going to have a positive impact in the long-run.
Nice post. I agree that this is a major growth, discovery, getting focused and clean-up period for Pakistan. I don`t believe we have had this much freedom of press before, could be wrong. All in all this period is going to have a positive impact in the long-run.
#32 Posted by sadna on July 21, 2002 12:31:48 am
I don`t zactly understand what is the author`s problem, she is not very clear. If by corporate America she means the US media well at least Pakistanis gets more coverage than citizens in many states of the union like say Oklahoma which gets mentioned only when tornados strike(if at all) or say Wyoming, which is NEVER reported on so might as well fold up and cease to exist.
#31 Posted by Romair on July 20, 2002 6:50:44 pm
correction #19: ``Mush is doing too bad, if you ask me. At the very least, he is doing far better than all the other South Asian leaders.``
should read,
``Mush is not doing too bad, if you ask me. At the very least, he is doing far better than all the other South Asian leaders.
should read,
``Mush is not doing too bad, if you ask me. At the very least, he is doing far better than all the other South Asian leaders.
#30 Posted by Ajeet on July 20, 2002 6:50:44 pm
I could not but think of the old phrase
`Khisani billi khamba notche`
So much hate, so much frustation, and so much pettiness.
You have serious problems ma`am, you need to see a shrink, may be Shanker can help. Although you are in some way reflecting the majority of Pakistanis.
`Khisani billi khamba notche`
So much hate, so much frustation, and so much pettiness.
You have serious problems ma`am, you need to see a shrink, may be Shanker can help. Although you are in some way reflecting the majority of Pakistanis.
#29 Posted by arjun_m on July 20, 2002 6:50:44 pm
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#26 Posted by pennathur on July 20, 2002 6:50:44 pm
pmishra writes,
``Let me make one constructive suggestion. Instead of whining endlessly, take Sumit Ganguly as your role model. Aspire to his level of scholarship in Pakistani studies.``
Could not agree more with this. For a nation that is barely half a century old, Pakistanis are very poorly informed about their own state. Last year on August 14 my Pak-American friend had invited us for dinner. As we kept talking I was amazed at his ignorance of Rehmat Ali`s role in the fdormulation of the idea of Pakistan. He knew nothing about the man and his obsession. And of course nothing at all about Jinnah`s hijacking of the movement and his actions which rendered Rehmat Ali persona non-grata in Pakistan. When I asked my friend where he got his information from, I was told that this is what is taught in the history books in Pakistan. In India OTOH the variety of sources of information are so diverse and vast. For instance I got to talk to our neighbor in Madras (a Palakkad Iyer) (who is now pushing 80) who was one of the five stenographers at the Muslim League annual session in Madras in the 1940s(?). He was there courtesy Sir CP Ramaswamy Iyer a barrister and close friend of Jinnah (then Diwan of Travancore). Now Iqbal and Rahmat Ali were given to a lot of myth making (as Khushwant Singh has often pointed out) while Jinnah was a hard nosed businessman (actually from a Kutchi bania khandan like Gandhi!) and had no time for all this sentiment! That Pakistani children to grow up on myths of a myth is indeed irony many times over!
Pakistan too has ``mirror/shadow institutions`` modeled after their Indian counterparts. So if India has the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, Pakistan has the Pakistan Institute of Strategic Studies (now thankfully renamed Institute of Strategic Studies, Islamabad!) But then while the former is headed and staffed by well educated folk, in Pakistan we have embarassments like Shireen Mazari (who I am quite sure dictates her columns when she is having a manicure/pedicure) Or wannabe like Ijaz Haider in The Friday Times who tie themselves up into knots using convuluted theories (none of which they understand). Like Nietzsche(?) said about history so is Pakistan`s imitation of India`s institutions. Transplants don`t work unless the soil is right. Pakistanis - even intelligent ones - fear knowledge as it will rid them of their biases, myths and prejudice. So we have parodies like Shireen Mazari - who knows that the truth about Pakistan would leave her with no pillars to base her diatribes on. A couple of Pakistanis I have met here in the US tell me that their encounter with Indians on neutral ground was almost liberating. When they found that the typical Indian has very little time to think about Pakistan they felt less threatened. And when they began to grasp how things really work in India it was a revelation. They don`t mind working with Indians - in fact they look forward to it. OTOH there do seem to be some other Pakistanis for whom the encounter produces very strong reactions and drives them further into the dead end of prejudice, recrimination, hate and vengefulness. When Musharraff trained at the Australian staff college, he wrote a paper that proposed the only way ahead for Pakistan as lying in strong economic and cultural ties with India - suggesting an abandonement of the K-focus. But now look at the man when he gets into power!
So instead of carping about Sumit Ganguly and Mohammad Ayoob, try to generate some genuine scholarship. You will be rewarded.
``Let me make one constructive suggestion. Instead of whining endlessly, take Sumit Ganguly as your role model. Aspire to his level of scholarship in Pakistani studies.``
Could not agree more with this. For a nation that is barely half a century old, Pakistanis are very poorly informed about their own state. Last year on August 14 my Pak-American friend had invited us for dinner. As we kept talking I was amazed at his ignorance of Rehmat Ali`s role in the fdormulation of the idea of Pakistan. He knew nothing about the man and his obsession. And of course nothing at all about Jinnah`s hijacking of the movement and his actions which rendered Rehmat Ali persona non-grata in Pakistan. When I asked my friend where he got his information from, I was told that this is what is taught in the history books in Pakistan. In India OTOH the variety of sources of information are so diverse and vast. For instance I got to talk to our neighbor in Madras (a Palakkad Iyer) (who is now pushing 80) who was one of the five stenographers at the Muslim League annual session in Madras in the 1940s(?). He was there courtesy Sir CP Ramaswamy Iyer a barrister and close friend of Jinnah (then Diwan of Travancore). Now Iqbal and Rahmat Ali were given to a lot of myth making (as Khushwant Singh has often pointed out) while Jinnah was a hard nosed businessman (actually from a Kutchi bania khandan like Gandhi!) and had no time for all this sentiment! That Pakistani children to grow up on myths of a myth is indeed irony many times over!
Pakistan too has ``mirror/shadow institutions`` modeled after their Indian counterparts. So if India has the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, Pakistan has the Pakistan Institute of Strategic Studies (now thankfully renamed Institute of Strategic Studies, Islamabad!) But then while the former is headed and staffed by well educated folk, in Pakistan we have embarassments like Shireen Mazari (who I am quite sure dictates her columns when she is having a manicure/pedicure) Or wannabe like Ijaz Haider in The Friday Times who tie themselves up into knots using convuluted theories (none of which they understand). Like Nietzsche(?) said about history so is Pakistan`s imitation of India`s institutions. Transplants don`t work unless the soil is right. Pakistanis - even intelligent ones - fear knowledge as it will rid them of their biases, myths and prejudice. So we have parodies like Shireen Mazari - who knows that the truth about Pakistan would leave her with no pillars to base her diatribes on. A couple of Pakistanis I have met here in the US tell me that their encounter with Indians on neutral ground was almost liberating. When they found that the typical Indian has very little time to think about Pakistan they felt less threatened. And when they began to grasp how things really work in India it was a revelation. They don`t mind working with Indians - in fact they look forward to it. OTOH there do seem to be some other Pakistanis for whom the encounter produces very strong reactions and drives them further into the dead end of prejudice, recrimination, hate and vengefulness. When Musharraff trained at the Australian staff college, he wrote a paper that proposed the only way ahead for Pakistan as lying in strong economic and cultural ties with India - suggesting an abandonement of the K-focus. But now look at the man when he gets into power!
So instead of carping about Sumit Ganguly and Mohammad Ayoob, try to generate some genuine scholarship. You will be rewarded.
#25 Posted by pennathur on July 20, 2002 6:50:44 pm
Was talking to a few folks from Turkey - at the school - last week. One of them is going to be a visiting fellow at an Israeli university this fall. Since I know about the extremely cordial ties between Israel and Turkey; that did not surprise me. ``But then - Cenk - now? All that suicide bombing going on everyday?`` Cenk of course smartly replied - with alacrity - I may add, ``I am interested in cryptography. Where else would I go? Pakistan?`` The irony was unmistakable. I continued gamely, ``why not TIFR or MATSCIENCE`` both of which (in Madras and Bombay resply have a strong computational math program`` ``Well Israel is a lot of fun!`` There`s no point hating India and working yourself up into a froth. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and flattery is the sincerest form of acceptance! ISrael and India together can pull Pakistan out of the hole it is in. Simple. Get rid of that tinpot dictator/CEO/President/Jahaanpanah and shut down this prattle about Kashmir. It is a waste of time. March towards a secular polity or even become like Malaysia. The Malays have struck a fine balance of mutual respect with both the bumiputras - the Indians and the Chinese - and are doing pretty well. I have a radical suggestion to (re)vitalise Pakistan.
Turn over Sindh to the expat Sindhis - the Hindujas, Chanrais, Chellarams - and giving them a long-term lease to run greater Karachi metro as a free-trade zone a la Shanghai. Make Greater Karachi some sort of Hong Kong or Shenzen - a free port with a few extra features. Revamp everything in sight - get the best from all over the world. The Tatas can run the infrastructure, Reliance runs the energy sector (Sui and all that), telecom and IT can be handed over to the Bhartis, and some of the smaller IT companies in India. Hand over the educational system to groups like Swadhyaya, IIT syndicates etc. Form joint-ventures for every service with honest Pakistani entrepreneurs on the board. The expat Sindhis can be put in charge of external relations and representation. Law and order can be turned over to privately run operations from the UK or the US. Keep the Army out and introduce genuine representational government. Going further this can even be made a broad based ``South Asian Initiative`` Bangladesh can be put incharge of family planning, Sri Lanka can take care of primary education and health care. Maldives can run the bureaucracy, Nepal can run tourism etc. And again all these would be joint ventures with strong local involvement. People like Adul Sattar Edhi can provide the local program management and facilitation and oversight. And not to forget - the ``twin-track/half-track/half-wit types like Kuldip Nayyar, Nirmala Deshpande, Ramdas etc., can provide the entertainment! All options can be explored. Pakistan`s creative artistes will be provided market access and be rid of interference from self-appointed guardians of morals. I am sure this would be a great success. The project can begin as an experiment in a region covering 2000-3000 sq.km. around Karachi. Depending upon the pace of change it can be extended to cover all of Sindh over a period of ten years. The tinpots of PA, PAF, and PN can be pensioned off - given green cards (courtesy Uncle Sam) and be asked to join their children (who are all anyway already settled in the US!). It is a one-time expense that I am sure the people of Pakistan would not mind. India will be only too pleased to provide an assurance not to threaten Pakistan. And then after about 30 years the project can be reviewed and a referendum organised to help decide whether the project shd be extended to cover all of Pakistan. And our correspondent Aisha Sarwari can be given a long term contract to join the enterprise first as a management trainee and then make it thru the ranks (or thru a rotational program) working in all functions and be groomed to take over as CEO.
Turn over Sindh to the expat Sindhis - the Hindujas, Chanrais, Chellarams - and giving them a long-term lease to run greater Karachi metro as a free-trade zone a la Shanghai. Make Greater Karachi some sort of Hong Kong or Shenzen - a free port with a few extra features. Revamp everything in sight - get the best from all over the world. The Tatas can run the infrastructure, Reliance runs the energy sector (Sui and all that), telecom and IT can be handed over to the Bhartis, and some of the smaller IT companies in India. Hand over the educational system to groups like Swadhyaya, IIT syndicates etc. Form joint-ventures for every service with honest Pakistani entrepreneurs on the board. The expat Sindhis can be put in charge of external relations and representation. Law and order can be turned over to privately run operations from the UK or the US. Keep the Army out and introduce genuine representational government. Going further this can even be made a broad based ``South Asian Initiative`` Bangladesh can be put incharge of family planning, Sri Lanka can take care of primary education and health care. Maldives can run the bureaucracy, Nepal can run tourism etc. And again all these would be joint ventures with strong local involvement. People like Adul Sattar Edhi can provide the local program management and facilitation and oversight. And not to forget - the ``twin-track/half-track/half-wit types like Kuldip Nayyar, Nirmala Deshpande, Ramdas etc., can provide the entertainment! All options can be explored. Pakistan`s creative artistes will be provided market access and be rid of interference from self-appointed guardians of morals. I am sure this would be a great success. The project can begin as an experiment in a region covering 2000-3000 sq.km. around Karachi. Depending upon the pace of change it can be extended to cover all of Sindh over a period of ten years. The tinpots of PA, PAF, and PN can be pensioned off - given green cards (courtesy Uncle Sam) and be asked to join their children (who are all anyway already settled in the US!). It is a one-time expense that I am sure the people of Pakistan would not mind. India will be only too pleased to provide an assurance not to threaten Pakistan. And then after about 30 years the project can be reviewed and a referendum organised to help decide whether the project shd be extended to cover all of Pakistan. And our correspondent Aisha Sarwari can be given a long term contract to join the enterprise first as a management trainee and then make it thru the ranks (or thru a rotational program) working in all functions and be groomed to take over as CEO.
#24 Posted by Rdesikan on July 20, 2002 6:50:44 pm
I don`t think you`ve really answered the question your posed ``What it means to be me in Corporate America?`` Instead you get into that predictable anti-India tirade expected from most pakis on this board.
As long as you pakistanis continue to define yourselves vis avis India, you will never really have an identity. Sure, this strategy helped 7-Up sell itself as the un-cola, but that is advertising. This is the real world.
I suppose your rantings reflect a deeper problem with self-esteem, self-worth and stuff like that.
Define yourself as who you are, not in terms of which passport you hold and you will be able to move on, away from the baggage you are so emotionally attached to.
#23 Posted by Eklavya on July 20, 2002 6:50:44 pm
Aisha,
Others` opinions should not rattle you. Opinions change. Also, Pakistan`s good name can exist independently of the good name of any other nation. There should not be any necessary direct opposition. Different boats can rise together. They often do.
On balance, a good effort. Keep the passion alive.
Others` opinions should not rattle you. Opinions change. Also, Pakistan`s good name can exist independently of the good name of any other nation. There should not be any necessary direct opposition. Different boats can rise together. They often do.
On balance, a good effort. Keep the passion alive.
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