What it means to be me in Corporate America?

Dear anNy

I am glad that you don’t hate me:) because I have always had the utmost respect for you… you are one of the few along with the author of this article… I was thinking about going to Karachi on the 13th for the Junoon concert.. but I haven`t gotten any details of that yet... So nothing is final yet...

what about you?

By the way do you watch Karachi’s Music Channel ‘Indus Music’ and other channels of Indus Network… they are just awesome… don’t you find it sad that some artists (like Shima Kirmani) claim abroad that dancing and singing is banned by Law in Pakistan? Despite all that is going on with atleast 5 new independent channels (ARY, UniPLUS, TPC, Indus, Indus Music, the City Channel etc) promoting music and dance in Pakistan? Why do we love putting our country down… I am asking this because of all the hoo haa here on chowk after my reaction to lies published by Seth Mydans in NY Times a few months back…

ASO

``A grenade does not explode just by taking out the pin. The liver, which is held in the place by the pin, has to be removed. So if you still keep the liver in place and take out the pin, grenade does not go BANG. Did you also consider Ganguly may have been attempting to be funny?``

I am sure Sumit Ganguly is a professional grenade expert who knows how to keep the `Liver` in place after the pin holding it in place was removed for god knows what reasons? Let me remind you that Mr.Ganguly said : I took the Pin out to make it safe... Won`t you say taking the pin out made it less safe despite Mr.Ganguly`s PROFESSIONAL EXPERTISE in matters of grenade? It is quite clear that Sumit Ganguly was making the story up.. besides you can`t buy a grenade in the Open market in peshawar.. if someone knows how to... I`ll be willing to reimburse him for his trip to Pakistan if he shows me where to buy a grenade from in Peshawar. There is a weapons problem in NWFP in the tribal areas which have been autonomous since the British ... but the tribal areas are not Peshawar which is a provincial capital and generally free of violence.

As for Sumit Ganguly being funny... I had the unfortunate experience of meeting him at Yale and believe me whatever is funny about him is not intentional... No … he wasn’t being funny.

Mithuna,

I recalled accurately I think… anyway the interview was in early part of 2001 before April (I’ll check again though)… it became really famous too as many people know … it might even have been mentioned on Chowk before…

Sadna,

Only a person with absolutely 0 knowledge of Economics will say attribute completely the huge near 7% annual Economic growth in the 1950s and 1960s to the ‘Western Aid’. On 18th January 1965 the New York Times commented: ‘Pakistan may be on its way toward another Economic Milestone that so far has been reached by only one populous country, the United States.’ Harvard Business Review commented similarly of that period… Harvard studied Pakistan as an efficient Economic growth model in the 1960s… don’t you think they would have said, if all of it was due to ‘Western Aid’?

Don’t try to make the same kind of strawman fallacies your distinguished compatriot (other alias perhaps) P-Mishra2 excels at…My quotes are always accurate to the point… About Emma Duncan let me make it clear… I just quoted her as saying that Pakistan was sort of a Local America for immigrants… I didn’t say she mentioned Indians… that is bad faith on her part I suppose for there are just so many of them in Karachi’s outskirts (in my estimate)… maybe it was because of that soft spot she had for India… maybe it was the strains in her relationship with a well known Pakistani celebrity which created that soft spot… maybe her funding was from India’s businessmen that she frequently mentions… in any event the book she wrote is extremely readable … and serves as a mirror for Pakistanis… but I am not going to speculate with certainty as to why she didn’t mention Indian immigrants when there are scores of them around Karachi I believe ( Perhaps some Karachite whom you trust can do a survey… or maybe you can visit Pakistan to see for yourself? In any event I don’t give a damn what you think or don’t think)

``You will need to provide some corroboration for your `hundreds of illegal Indian scum` remark before it can be accepted.``

For the record : I said `Immigrant scum`... another attempt at a strawman fallacy is it? this is how you Indians try to win arguments... Kindly take the silly notion out of your overinflated head that I need you to accept anything... it is a fact.. there have been several documentaries... I am informing you that a lot of them, especially the ones living around Karachi in shanti towns are Indians who have crossed over the Border from India... the horrible Indian movie ‘refugee’ shows how there is cross border activity of Bihari Immigrants into Sindh but what it doesn`t show is that some of those immigrants are Indians who go to Pakistan for a better life ... (while some are RAW trained terrorist sent into foment sectarian and ethnic trouble).. if you don`t want to accept any of this.. you have right too... (just like we have the right to claim that there was NEVER any cross border infiltration into Kashmir) ... your accepting or our claiming doesn`t make something true... Gandhian hog wash of truth being relative aint true.. truth is fact and facts are true...



Gandhi’s Statue : As for the statues, there were many ... but the Gandhi statue I was talking about was the one outside the Sindh High Court Karachi in 1947 ... it was sanctioned in the 1930s by the British Government.. it was threatened in 1947 and so the first Governor General of Pakistan, Mr.M A Jinnah, acted swiftly to protect it ordering it to be put at a safe place.. Later the statue was given to the Indian High commission in Karachi by the same government to put outside its compound... Today the statue stands in Islamabad .. in the lawn of the Indian High Commission ...As for your pathetic defence of Non-violent preachers who preach Nuclear Arms... here is some new information for you... India was the first country to go nuclear in 1974 ... Pakistan didn`t initiate the Nuclear Arms Race... its amazing even when India excretes ... it is noble for you...

Let me make something clear to you... You have no right to tell me anything unless you do it yourself.. If you shut up about Pakistan... I will shut up about India... don`t give me that nonsense about insurgency... it is quite apparent that anything happens in India it is blamed on Pakistan... as if India is totally innocent... You have fomented trouble in Pakistan for 55 years... Your utter Hypocrisy and Bigotry ... plus your predilection to fallacy never ceases to amaze me...

Answer the simple question: Why doesn`t India hold a plebiscite in Kashmir?

The answer to that is a very sad one.. and I am sure sanctimonious garbage that you utter has no place for truth does it? One could make a scapegoat out of the fact that `Pakistan didn`t withdraw its troops` ... but the fact is that India doesn`t even recognize Jammu and Kashmir as a disputed territory... when it explicitly promised otherwise some 50 years ago... If India were serious in holding a plebiscite in the valley... Pakistan would withdraw its troops... no one can deny that. It must be kept in mind that Pakistani held Kashmir retains its special status as Azad Jammu and Kashmir with an Elected Prime Minister and legislature within a sort of a Pakistani commonwealth... even when Pakistan itself is denied democracy...



Roohi...

How is the call for prayer related to the issue of Kashmiris? Pakistan`s standard line may well be something else... and I don`t want to go into that... but is the Indian government even ready to talk on Kashmir???The basis of the problem is in the denial of the right of self determination... pointing fingers at Pakistan is not necessarily going to excuse India for that...

You have accused me of taking a one-sided stance on India and Pakistan... I have been more than willing, as many of your countrymen here know, to take a balanced approach... but none of it has been reciprocated... Instead of preaching to me, who has in the past made every effort to start a fruitful and productive dialogue... why don`t you try preaching to your own people...

As god is my witness I have hardened my stance over time... (I am well aware that Kashmir`s solution is not going to be on the lines Pakistani or Indian positions but a compromise) when I didn`t see even a kernel of hope of reciprocation amongst Indians... even people like you who claim to be moderates... Now you are accusing Aisha of all sorts of things... seems to me you didn`t even have the courtesy read the whole damn thing...

Read this part in Aisha`s Article:

``My solution to the Kashmir issue; cultivation of greater tolerance for other beliefs, yet never compromising on ones own, being a citizen of the world yet beginning with one’s own country. Working at grass root levels in Kashmir and believing that one day the world would meet God halfway, by being nice to its neighbors. This is not an over-simplification of the problem in Kashmir. I attempted to internalize the many details, so I’d be better equipped to step into the domain, but after lots of thought, I have created a new domain, the domain of “ fighting with peace”. Taking Pakistan’s land away doesn’t mean we’ll stupidly remain silent, but because the Kashmiris quality of life is much more important (and besides there has been too many rivers of blood) we’ll keep our feet firm on the ground, in peace not in arrogance``

You claimed that this person was spreading hate .. simply because her view didn`t correspond with your own view... So tell me whose view is balanced? Who is the Bigot?

About the other post let me assure you.. I am not in need of your praise.. whatever little I contribute to my country is done not for your praise... secondly you say:

``Also it is quite possible to want and work for the good of your country as well as that of mankind in general at the same time. One is a subset of the other.``

I believe that when I am working for the good of my country I am improving the world... I am not an idealist in the sense you want me to be... I don`t have pipe dreams... I will not volunteer in Africa to wipe out hunger war and famine there... that is their job... I personally don`t give a damn about the sufferings of Gujurati Muslims or Hindus.. I am more concerned with the plight of Pakistani Hindus, Christians.. My job is improving my own neighborhood.. my own little corner of the world.. if everyone was as selfish as me... the world would be a much better place...



The youth you talk about... the ones who are concerned about World peace, and world`s hunger more often than not end up working in the corporate sector in the United States, living cosy lives in their apartments in Manhattan or the Silicon Valley ... They haven`t wiped out the world`s hunger...

Please note that the bitter tone I am taking with you is the result of sustained erosion of good will on my part… I had gone to the US some 4 years ago as someone who really didn’t know what the hell Kashmir was about… who enjoyed a good Shah Rukh Khan/ Ashwariyah flick, whose favorite pop singer was Asha Bhonsle the Queen of Pop or so I thought..… whose only display of ‘Nationalism’ was when Pakistan played cricket against India… this was me… My earliest friends in the US were 5 Indians… one of them was Mr.Jignesh Gandhi, whom I had asked starry eyed on the first day if he was related to Mahatma Gandhi (he looked somewhat like him too)? Though on a personal level I got along well with them… but the bigotry I faced at the hands of Indians, their subtle sneers… their disapproval of my eating habits.. and then on a national level.. their constant attempts to veer me into political debates forced me read more and discover the truth… then after September 11th… all out lies about Pakistan by Indian intellectuals… all of this made me turn bitter… Some where along the way I made a conscious decision of returning to Pakistan after I was done with school despite my overwhelming love for all things American…When I returned from the US, my cousins told me that they found me considerably less religious, and more anti-Indian… isn’t that an ironic statement? One would imagine from the garbage Indians spout on these boards that anyone who is anti-Indian is an Islamic fundamentalist… I was the biggest fan of Indian Music in my extended family… now I don’t sit in the same room if someone turns on Indian Music…

We all have biases... but they usually have a reason.. and I have given you mine.. So whats yours?

-YLH

YLH # 198

Nice to see your passionate outburst here after a long time.

Now, just get back to the earlier post and tell me where did I make any comment on Jinnah except the Title of Jinnah and democracy.

I agree to your point of Jinnah having all those qualities but he had lots of faults also as all of us including Gandhi and Nehru have/had.

Now, a reality chaeck. A Pakistani friend once remaked about Jinnah, ``saara berha garq Jinnah da hi kitta hoya. Apne jinde ji koi second leadership develop nahi hon ditti kyonki khud dictator wang Party chalanda si te mar gaya taN mulq da kuchh nahi bacheya.``

And this friend is a journalist.

Best Wishes.

Have a good day!

Have some patience when you read and respond!

There are a few issues I want to tackle in this post…

FREEDOM STRUGGLE

First I want to speak of the Indian Arrogance… it seems to me that revisionism has led the Indian Nationalists to believe that no Muslim Leaguer was ever arrested for sedition… Nothing can be farthest from the truth… whereas it is true that Muslim League didn’t participate in the not very useful Quit India movement… Muslim Leaguers were arrested and tried for sedition especially in the closing stages of the Raj… (I personally don’t see what that proves though)…

Perhaps the most memorable act in the History of the ‘Freedom struggle’ was the raiding of the Punjab Secretariat in Feb 1947, when Muslim League women climbed atop the building, took off the British Flag and replaced it with the Muslim League flag… after that all of them were arrested… It is true that Jinnah was one unifying influence for them … but his statement that ‘I won Pakistan with my typewriter’ is an over-estimation of his own ability… No leader is strong without his people… and Jinnah’s strength with millions who rallied around him… the reason Jinnah wasn’t arrested in that critical last year of the Raj was not just because he carefuly remained inside the constitutional limits… One British official spoke of his prestige amongst the Muslims and likened it to that of the Mughal Emperors like Akbar-e-Azam … which the British naturally feared would cause a revolt in the whole of India if Jinnah was ever arrested.

… There were many Muslim League leaders in Punjab who were arrested … Infact the entire Leadership of the Punjab Muslim League spent many nights in Jail…Two major women leaders arrested in this period who later became famous as legislators and activists for Monogamy in Pakistan were:

Begum Jahan Ara Shahnawaz, 7 Months kaid ba mushaqat

Begum Tassadaq, 6 Months kaid ba mushaqat

Maybe there is some truth to the fact that British had during the war tried to use Muslim League’s differences with the Congress to its advantage… though it is also true that any anti-fascist worth his salt would have sided with the British during the war as the Muslim League did… but there is no disputing the fact that British considered Muslim League a potent threat after the war and did all it could to curb it…

Yet these sagas of ARRESTS doesn’t make the slightest difference… all leaders arrested in the 1930s were arrested to be propped up as leaders… (How could a seditious leader like Gandhi’s statues be sanctioned by the British Government in India ?? Have you given it some thought?) We have conclusive evidence of British strategy of creating demagogues in the Congress… and less successfully in the League… from 1937-1941 it was the league’s turn but the swelling up of League’s numbers through revitalization of it under Jinnah, made the British rethink their strategy… Congress’s miscalculation left the door open… Jinnah had played his hand very well… those like Bose in the Congress lost out their local gods… which eventually forced him to create that colossal failure the INA.



PAKISTAN’S ECONOMY

Secondly it seems that Indians are of the view that a few billion dollars of aid thrown our way in the 1980s was the only reason our country was relatively more prosperous than theirs… this is also a travesty of truth… yes Pakistan received aid… but Pakistan had concentrated, on advice of top Economists of the World, to the creation of a free market Economy from 1947-1972 and had done so very successfully… in the Economic Growth (not Economic development)… Then some of the illiberal policies of the Pseudo-Socialist Regime of Bhutto also favored such growth though the over all effect was negative… the Prosperity of the 1980s was not due to ‘Western Aid’… that aid should have helped us in the 1990s and not the 1980s… So Indians Please… give up this ill founded superiority complex that all of you seem to suffer from…

Pakistan is a country of tremendous Economic potential which is not yet tapped… We are also very rich in human resource sector… All this potential has been squandered… but that doesn’t mean we are able to… It is a fact that illegal immigrants from India of all religions are pouring into Pakistan… whether Emma Duncan specifically mentioned India in her book or not…

THE LANGUAGE ISSUE

This is not issue with Indians as such… but in general… when Pakistan was created, Urdu was as much spoken in West Pakistan as it was spoken in the East… It was not the language of Sindh, Baluchistan, Punjab or NWFP… as it was not the language of Bengal… It was chosen for its significance as a Muslim cultural language… remember Jinnah’s own mother tongue was Gujurati …

Bengalis had legitimate concerns in 1971… their treatment at the hands of west Pakistanis was horrific to say the least… the excesses committed against them are a sad chapter in the world’s history… their issues like their share in Economic development, were valid.. but the Language was a stupid issue… Now Punjabis are a majority… should Punjabis demand Punjabi as the National Language of Pakistan? It’s not like Jinnah told Bengalis that they couldn’t have Bengali as their provincial language… Infact he said ‘Bengali will be the Provincial Language of Bengal’ in that famous address that is castigated by the Bengalis… And its not like Bengali never became the state language… conceding to this obnoxious demand Bengali was made the official state language alongside Urdu in 1956 …

-YLH

TAhmed#

Kalma to accept Islam.

``La Ilaha Illallah

Mohammedur Rasul Allah.

Eeman Mujmil:

Amanto Billahe- Wa Malaikatehi, Wa Kutubehi, Wa Rusulehi, Wal Yaumil Aakhir.``

Ahmedi does not fit. As is Bahai and other sects.

I may agree with you that there are many wrong things done in the name of Islam. Bringing isolated Ayah, Fake Hadith.

I call that deviant Muslim.

But Ahmedi`s does not fulfil the definition of Muslim.

As Muslim do not fulfil the definition of Christianity although they believe in jesus as prophet. No they fulfil the definition of Judaism although they believe in Moses as prophet of God also.

Did Mirza Ahmed add upon something in Islam. Yes. Did he gave his own interpretation of Islam. Yes.

But so lot of other sects.

Why they are non Muslims.

Because you can argue with other people, and their wrong thoughts..

You cannot argue with word of prophet. Because according to belief Prophet speaks the word from God.

That is why you cannot consider them Muslims.

The problem is not that he gave some unusual interpretation of Quran. It has been done by many including Ibn-e-Timia and more recently Ghulam Ahmed Pervez. The problem with Mirza is that he claimed himself as Prophet of God.

Ref ylh #: 199

[It is amazing that a few Billion dollars of Aid over 7 years made Pakistan a `local america`.. How blind can Indians be?]

Absolutely right. Just like in America, there is a gun in every nightstand in Pakistan.

The comparison with The Great Satan stops right there.

Ref Humsab #: 190

[JINNAH AND DEMOCRACY]

Yasser Latif Hamdani, that dear boy educated at Rutgers, has informed me in a private communication that in ancient Greek ``Demos`` meant Jinnah.

Ref ylh #: 188

[Please don`t bother with Mr.Harimau... this senile uncle was `educated in the time of Nehru` and everything he knows is the `Word of God and Gospel`...]

Yasser, dear boy, not to worry. I shall soon move to the Desi ghetto aka New Jersey and enroll in that esteemed Ivy League institution called Rutgers University to deprogram myself.

Ref YLH #: 183

[My father`s business is the leasing of Vehicles (heavy and light)... to both privately and publicly owned firms...

You can see this actually taking place on ground the way my father`s business is booming again.. but that sadly will be lost on those who suffer from iodine deficiency.]

Yasser, dear boy, how about sending truckloads of iodine to India? Your father`s truck leasing business will be booming even more and Indians will finally qualify to study at Rutgers!

Ref Krash-Id #: 180

[TAhned#

Your statement on Sattar 2.

If he is not non-Muslim. He is Muslim.

There is no third option.

What is your minimum definition of Muslim.]

Don`t hold your breath.

I have given the learned Mullah till Hell freezes over to answer that question.

He fully intends to use all the time given to him.

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/aug01/imos.htm

``..With a view to disrupting the forthcoming assembly elections, militants today started targeting the tentatively listed candidates. The beginning was made with the killing of Fayaz Ahmad Bhat at Tral in south Kashmir. Though he was working as naib tehsildar in the revenue department, his name had recently figured in the tentative list of candidates of the National Conference from Tral constituency.

Fayaz was the third member of his family gunned down by militants during the last 12 years of militancy. His father, Mohammad Subhan Bhat, a former legislator, was shot dead in 1991. This was followed by the killing of his brother Showkat Ahmad Bhat in 1994...``

YLH - now just for fun guess which rally I support kiddo !

Groups at odds over answer to Kashmir crisis

Some think talk can lead to peace; others back Indian army`s buildup

By Christine Walsh (Aug 1 2002)

BOSTON — There were two rallies, held on separate June weekends in Copley Square, with very separate themes.

One was a cry for justice for all victims of violence in Kashmir, chastising Pakistan as a promoter and sponsor of terrorism.

The other was a call for peace in South Asia, urging more talk between the governments and citizens of India and Pakistan and fewer troops along the countries` borders.

Although they are thousands of miles away from the subcontinent, local South Asian organizations have strong, passionate views about the dispute over Kashmir. They don`t always agree on how — and whether — peace can be achieved.

Some say India and Pakistan must have a dialogue and work toward peacefully removing some of the million soldiers posted along their borders. Others are harsh critics of Pakistan and say the Indian army is the only way to stop terror attacks in Kashmir. Somewhere between 33,000 (according to India) and 80,000 (according to separatists) people have been killed in the violence in Kashmir since 1989.

Rajesh Kasturirangan, president of the South Asian Center, which organized the peace rally, believes the two countries should sit down and talk about a peace process that involves de-escalation of the military buildup on both sides of the border.

``War has never been a solution for peace,`` said Kasturirangan, a native of Delhi, India.

Chandrakant Panse, director of media watch for the Friends of India Society International, which organized the justice rally, said India`s army must remain massed the border until terrorism stops.

``De-escalation is not only incredibly naïve, but a very stupid thing to do — because de-escalation means an invitation to increase terrorism,`` he said. ``And these are innocent civilians who are being victimized because of the naivete bordering on stupidity in the demands for de-escalation.``

Panse expressed such sentiments when he criticized Asha-Boston for endorsing the peace rally and de-escalation. He began a back-and-forth of politically charged messages on a group e-mail list usually reserved for announcements of meetings and events.

In one e-mail, he threatened to file a complaint with the Internal Revenue Service about Asha`s tax-exempt status if the group did not ``pull out of this exercise in support of continued terrorism.``

Members of Asha bristled at the accusation that they support terrorism. The group works for socio-economic change in India through education of underprivileged children.

``The peace rally, which Asha endorsed and which I took part in, says nothing about terrorism,`` said Ananth Chikkatur, a leader of Asha-Boston. ``Clearly there is not a doubt that we are all against terrorism. Terror of any kind is not to be condoned. But peace is not mutually exclusive of supporting terrorism.``

While Asha, which is based at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, usually does not deal with India-Pakistan issues, it does discuss what it can and cannot endorse.

While some members believe that endorsing something like a peace rally dilutes the group`s focus, others believe peace is an important element of education, Chikkatur said.

``Asha`s objective is to support, wherever possible, elements which promote education, elements which promote social development, and peace certainly is a social-development issue,`` he said.

Asha was one of eight groups that supported the peace rally, which began with a walk from Cambridge City Hall to Copley Square.

Kasturirangan said one thing the peace rally accomplished was to bring South Asians together and show ``how strong a feeling of unity there is between the various groups.`` The rally also aimed to convey a message of peace to the governments of India and Pakistan, he said.

``All the organizations that were endorsing and sponsoring the rally are mostly organizations that represent poorer people in India and in Pakistan,`` he said.

About 100 people participated in the rally, he said.

A week earlier, the same number of people attended the justice rally, which listed 16 local organizations among its supporters, including the India Association of Greater Boston, the India Society of Worcester and several Hindu and Kashmiri groups.

Demonstrators held signs proclaiming India to be the largest and most vibrant democracy in the world and declaring Pakistan to be a sponsor of terror. They demanded justice for all victims of terrorism, particularly those in India.

The rally accused the media of spreading lies about India and not covering Pakistan`s role in terrorist activities. Panse said he was disappointed in the lack of coverage the rally received in the local press.

``We were hoping that the cause of the people who had been killed and who had been ethnically cleansed from Kashmir and had been living in refugee camps would at least receive some light,`` he said. ``That`s the first step in getting these people some justice.``

The rally was personal for Lalit Koul, a member of Pannun Kashmir, who said ``my whole family was thrown out of Kashmir because of Islamic fundamentalists.`` The Muslim separatist revolt began in 1989, the year his family left Kashmir.

``There`s only one way to achieve peace and that is for Pakistan to change its ways,`` he said.

Koul called Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf a ``dictator`` and said India`s only option is to keep troops lined on its border.

``I would even go so far to say that India should strike against those terrorist training camps in Pakistan,`` he said. ``The minimum they have to do is to keep the troops.``

Koul criticized the United States` foreign policy in Pakistan. ``The U.S. has to come out of its dream world and realize that Pakistan is not the ally to be trusted,`` he said.

Panse said no Pakistanis were involved in the justice rally.

``Obviously there probably don`t exist any Pakistanis who share my views, because they deny that there is any terrorism involved here, when the whole world knows that this is Pakistani terrorism,`` he said.

Tanvir Khan, a Pakistan native and member of the South Asian Center, said she ``absolutely condemns`` the ``senseless killing`` of innocent people.

``Even when I was in Pakistan people like me believed … these problems need to be discussed by talking to each other rather than starting a war every now and then,`` she said.

She said Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence has had ``unwise involvement`` in Kashmir in the past, but believes the government is now distancing itself from those actions.

``I hope that what they`re saying, they`re really doing it,`` she said. Pakistan has pledged to stop militants from crossing into Indian Kashmir.

Khan, whose father`s family comes from India, said there are many similarities between Indians and Pakistanis. She believes the conflict between the two countries can be solved peacefully.

``Fortunately there are a lot of people on both sides of the issues who are sensible and who are talking about sensible solutions,`` she said.

Chikkatur admits the issues between India and Pakistan are complicated and that there are no simple answers.

``It is precisely because there is no black-and-white answer that dialogue is the way to resolve their differences,`` he said. ``It is perfectly OK for people to have different opinions. It is why we should have dialogue. Coming to a consensus on these issues is not easy.``

Divine #204

Sorry to have given the article the wrong title. I believe YLH called it the ``Kashmir File`` too. I found it at this location where apart from the word ``BLODDY`` there appears to be no difference.

http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/

YLH

The work you are doing in Pakistan is admirable ! Please do not get worked up about this whole thing - I realize now it has probably been beaten to death on chowk previously.

What I do not like specifically is one-sided views on India-Pakistan issues while simultaniously complaining loudly about the lack of objectivity on the Indian side. In other words if you want objectivity, please start by showing some yourself.

Also it is quite possible to want and work for the good of your country as well as that of mankind in general at the same time. One is a subset of the other.

Regards

ylh #various
You are the one who quoted Emma Duncan on Pakistan`s prosperity, now you are denying the same prosperity and saying the aid wasn`t enough??

btw, Pakistan got aid in the 50s and the 60s too.

And where did I say you quote Emma Duncan on Indian immigrants?

Its curious, she says ``Because Pakistan`s relative prosperity makes it the local America, Karachi is stiff with illegal immigrants``. She mentions rich Iranians escaping draft, she mentions poorer Iranian Baluch, Afghans, Sri Lankans, Bangladeshis. NO INDIANS, even when she called Pakistan the local America.

You will need to provide some corroboration for your `hundreds of illegal Indian scum` remark before it can be accepted.

ASO #205 you write ``A grenade does not explode just by taking out the pin. The liver, which is held in the place by the pin, has to be removed. ``

I think you mean ``lever``. As for your liver, I hope that it is held in place inside your abdomen by more than just a pin.

Roohi YLH here... sorry to bother you again... Can you please show me where in her article `Kashmir File` does Aisha speak of `Muslims only`??? Doesn`t she speak of Kashmiris... or are Kashmiri Pundits not Kashmiris? I am baffled... people like you are beyond redemption... you know why we are where we are today because there are too many of you with pipe dreams giving the world a whole lot of idealism (if you can call it that) without pragmatism. Its amazing how `idealists` like you love to assume... the article you are quoting was published on Chowk under the name `Fighting in Peace`... I am reproducing the whole thing below.. : http://www.chowk.com/bin/showa.cgi?aisha_jun01 Fighting in Peace by Aisha In my cupboard, amidst important files lies my most frequently visited file