What it means to be me in Corporate America?
Aisha Sarwari July 19, 2002
#190 Posted by roohi on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
YLH - and since we`re on the topic - you might want to add these reports by Time, Amnesty International, Dawn, Tehelka etc. to your ``Kashmir File`` - I feel sure you do not have them.
Political Limbo
The people of Pakistan`s Northern Areas want an end to alienation and statelessness
BY MICHAEL FATHERS
http://www.time.com/time/asia/news/daily/0,9754,167449,00.html
A simmering issue
By Ishtiaq Ali Mehkri
Though outwardly calm, the northern areas of Pakistan are simmering with a crisis that has all the ingredients of boiling over the rim: the over 2 million people of the northern areas spread over an area of 72,500 sq km are politically unrepresented in Pakistan and thus facing obvious neglect as all the governments have linked their fate to the resolution of the Kashmir dispute.
http://www.dawn.com/report/islamabad/northern2.htm
GBNA wants self-rule for Northern Areas
By Our Staff Reporter
ISLAMABAD, Feb 3: Gilgit Baltistan National Alliance (GBNA), has demanded of the government to give the people of Northern Areas self-rule on the lines of Azad Kashmir as well as according to the UNCIP resolutions.
http://www.dawn.com/2002/02/04/nat4.htm
Amnesty International today protested the arbitrary arrest of up to 200 peaceful demonstrators this week, on the eve of elections in Azad Jammu and Kashmir .......... On 22 June, peaceful demonstrations in Gilgit, protesting against domination by Pakistan and discriminatory recruitment practices which allegedly disadvantage Gilgitis, were broken up by Pakistani security forces. When police opened fire, more than a dozen people were injured. While the media reported one person shot dead, local sources have said that four people were killed in police firing. More than 800 people were reportedly arrested and taken to undisclosed detention centres. Gilgit has been placed under continuous curfew.
http://web.amnesty.org/802568F7005C4453/0/DD2ECAD7BD1C8252802569000068A30D?Open&Highlight=2,Kashmir
SEDITION SECTION 124 A
No political activities are allowed in the Pakistan occupied part of Gilgit Baltistan (Balawaristan) at all. The following are the few examples who are facing state treason cases, in spite of the fact that Balawaristan is not a part of Pakistan as per the UN resolutions.
http://www.balawaristan.net/human_rights.htm
`If we had a choice between India and Pakistan, we would not be
part of Pakistan` Abdul Hamid Khan, chairperson of the Balawaristan National Front, tells V K Shashikumar that the people of Balawaristan are fighting for freedom from Pakistani oppression, and expresses distress at the Indian government turning a deaf ear to their appeals for help
http://www.tehelka.com/channels/currentaffairs/2001/dec/3/ca120301abdul1.htm
Political Limbo
The people of Pakistan`s Northern Areas want an end to alienation and statelessness
BY MICHAEL FATHERS
http://www.time.com/time/asia/news/daily/0,9754,167449,00.html
A simmering issue
By Ishtiaq Ali Mehkri
Though outwardly calm, the northern areas of Pakistan are simmering with a crisis that has all the ingredients of boiling over the rim: the over 2 million people of the northern areas spread over an area of 72,500 sq km are politically unrepresented in Pakistan and thus facing obvious neglect as all the governments have linked their fate to the resolution of the Kashmir dispute.
http://www.dawn.com/report/islamabad/northern2.htm
GBNA wants self-rule for Northern Areas
By Our Staff Reporter
ISLAMABAD, Feb 3: Gilgit Baltistan National Alliance (GBNA), has demanded of the government to give the people of Northern Areas self-rule on the lines of Azad Kashmir as well as according to the UNCIP resolutions.
http://www.dawn.com/2002/02/04/nat4.htm
Amnesty International today protested the arbitrary arrest of up to 200 peaceful demonstrators this week, on the eve of elections in Azad Jammu and Kashmir .......... On 22 June, peaceful demonstrations in Gilgit, protesting against domination by Pakistan and discriminatory recruitment practices which allegedly disadvantage Gilgitis, were broken up by Pakistani security forces. When police opened fire, more than a dozen people were injured. While the media reported one person shot dead, local sources have said that four people were killed in police firing. More than 800 people were reportedly arrested and taken to undisclosed detention centres. Gilgit has been placed under continuous curfew.
http://web.amnesty.org/802568F7005C4453/0/DD2ECAD7BD1C8252802569000068A30D?Open&Highlight=2,Kashmir
SEDITION SECTION 124 A
No political activities are allowed in the Pakistan occupied part of Gilgit Baltistan (Balawaristan) at all. The following are the few examples who are facing state treason cases, in spite of the fact that Balawaristan is not a part of Pakistan as per the UN resolutions.
http://www.balawaristan.net/human_rights.htm
`If we had a choice between India and Pakistan, we would not be
part of Pakistan` Abdul Hamid Khan, chairperson of the Balawaristan National Front, tells V K Shashikumar that the people of Balawaristan are fighting for freedom from Pakistani oppression, and expresses distress at the Indian government turning a deaf ear to their appeals for help
http://www.tehelka.com/channels/currentaffairs/2001/dec/3/ca120301abdul1.htm
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#189 Posted by roohi on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
ylh #165
``I am sure the `Kashmir file` would have disturbed you... after all how could speaking up for the oppressed Kashmiri multitudes living under foreign occupation be as noble as `love peace and ending world`s hunger`.... Well done... I admire your objectivity...``
Thanks for a civil response - love, peace and ending world hunger necessitates looking beyond the party/establishment/national line which only the young and idealistic think of doing but certainly neither you nor Aisha can be accused of. Now if in this article below you can point out to me where it talks of ``Kashmiri Pandits`` or ``Civilian Victims`` or even the status and rights of the Northern Areas (is that part ``Pakistan`s land`` too ?) we can talk about objectivity. When I read ``I see a day when the sun will shine on Kashmir and people will awake, not with a voice in their head that questions their identity but with the call of early prayer.`` why is it clear to me that it does not include the prayers at Jammu`s Vaisho Devi Shrine, Srinagar`s 1000 year old Sankaracharya temple or the Buddhist Monasteries of Ladakh ? As far as I`m concerned this young person is feeding herself and others hate with no attempts at balance whatsoever.
The Kashmir File
by Aisha Sarwari
In my cupboard, amidst important files lies my most frequently visited file
``I am sure the `Kashmir file` would have disturbed you... after all how could speaking up for the oppressed Kashmiri multitudes living under foreign occupation be as noble as `love peace and ending world`s hunger`.... Well done... I admire your objectivity...``
Thanks for a civil response - love, peace and ending world hunger necessitates looking beyond the party/establishment/national line which only the young and idealistic think of doing but certainly neither you nor Aisha can be accused of. Now if in this article below you can point out to me where it talks of ``Kashmiri Pandits`` or ``Civilian Victims`` or even the status and rights of the Northern Areas (is that part ``Pakistan`s land`` too ?) we can talk about objectivity. When I read ``I see a day when the sun will shine on Kashmir and people will awake, not with a voice in their head that questions their identity but with the call of early prayer.`` why is it clear to me that it does not include the prayers at Jammu`s Vaisho Devi Shrine, Srinagar`s 1000 year old Sankaracharya temple or the Buddhist Monasteries of Ladakh ? As far as I`m concerned this young person is feeding herself and others hate with no attempts at balance whatsoever.
The Kashmir File
by Aisha Sarwari
In my cupboard, amidst important files lies my most frequently visited file
#188 Posted by Humsab on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
JINNAH AND DEMOCRACY
Did our Quaid make mistakes? M P Bhandara
General Musharraf is ill advised if he thinks the plethora of amendments proposed by the NRB can be simply pasted & scissored to the Constitution by means of an Ordinance
Our love for the Nation’s Father increases as time passes-by. Here is a man whose very name has become eponymous for integrity, honesty, dedication and straight talk; even his worst enemies would not deny him these qualities. As we read his speeches more than half a century later particularly his inaugural of 11 August 1947, one has a better measure of his wisdom. He was a reticent man; his words were spare and they will echo for ever in the corridor of our history.
But, as a human, he was subject to the same laws of frailty, as any one else. He was mortally ill, perhaps, after December 1947. He was by then 72 years old. His word was law by the unanimous consent of his people who he led to victory, self-respect and statehood. Yet, the measure of this great man would not be complete without taking into consideration two crucial mistakes or misjudgments after he assumed the office of the first Governor General of Pakistan.
Our political leaders seldom, if ever, write their memoirs. An exception to this rule is the Oxford educated Barrister, proud Pakhtun, Aslam Khattak, who has served his country as a bureaucrat, Ambassador extra-ordinary, Governor & senior Federal Minister. I have the good fortune of currently reading his unpublished memoirs, which commence with a fascinating insight into British rule in the Frontier and move onto the early days of Pakistan.
I record below an event, which I had no knowledge of, for it has cast long shadows in our political history. I quote from Mr. Aslam Khattak’s memoirs with his permission: -
“At my meeting with the Governor (Sir George Cunningham), I had asked him “Sir, what about our Ministry?” He said, “Aslam! Can you keep a secret?” I said, “ I hope so, Sir.” He said, “the Quaid-e-Azam is drafting a law as soon as that is done he will dismiss the Ministry.” I said, “sir, but they have the majority in the Assembly. Would such a step not be a negation of Democracy particularly when Doctor Khan Sahib and his cabinet have taken oath of loyalty to Pakistan?” He kept silent for a minute or so and then said this was the Quaid-e-Azam’s wish. It is he who lays the law of the land now. I said, “surely, sir, this would be a bad precedent for our future and you could have at least told him what you thought about such a decision. With his famous Chinese like grin (Sir George did have a very distant look like a Chinese) he said, “Aslam, learn one lesson; and that is that one does not argue with the Quaid-e-Azam.”
It may be said in the Quaid’s defense that the brothers, Ghaffar Khan and Dr. Khan Sahib, were before partition not only bitter opponents of Pakistan, but also there was a personal edge to the animosity.
But seen in the cool retrospect of time the dismissal of the Frontier assembly by the Quaid after an oath of allegiance to Pakistan was taken by Dr. Khan Sahib was wrong. It became consciously or unconsciously a precedent for Governor General Ghulam Mohammad’s dismissal of the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan in 1953. And thereafter there have been domino dismissals of popularly elected assemblies, falling like ninepins.
By 21 March 1948, the Quaid was a very sick man. He had less than six months to live. Notwithstanding, he undertook a visit to Dhaka, which totally exhausted him. In his last major public speech before a crowd of over 300,000 persons in Dhaka maidan he declared: -
“.... Any one who tries to mislead you is really the enemy of Pakistan.
Without one State Language, no Nation can remain tied up solidly together and function. Look at the history of other countries. Therefore, so far as the State Language is concerned, Pakistan’s language shall be URDU... I tell you once again, do not fall into the trap of those who are the enemies of Pakistan....”
The crowd went sullen on hearing these words. After all Bengali was the mother tongue of the then Pakistan’s majority. Urdu certainly was the cultural expression of Muslim India, but to inflict an alien language on a people, as we well know, is fraught with the gravest danger. The seed for East Pakistan’s alienation was thus planted. I am unable to discover if this speech was preplanned or extempore; I suspect it was the latter.
The greatness of a man can also be measured by the depth of his mistakes. The hagiography industry of the 20th century has tried to create immortals out of mere mortals. Our Quaid undoubtedly belongs to the ranks of some of the greatest leaders of the last century, to name a few: Lenin, Stalin, Churchill, Roosevelt, Gandhi and Mao Ze Dong. There is no harm in attempting a critical assessment of our heroes — and the Quaid is certainly mine — to appreciate them in truer perspective.
Is there any relevance of these past events to current issues? Yes, there is. All dismissals of popularly elected assemblies right from 1947 are now seen in retrospect as grave mistakes. The dismissal of the 1953 Constituent Assembly distorted our nascent political evolution almost without doubt. The 1958 dismissal of the National Assembly and the abrogation of the Constitution of 1956 — the only genuine compromise between the two wings of the country — sealed the fate of East Pakistan. The 1962 Constitution was eventually uprooted by its creator and the Assembly dissolved in 1969. The 1973 consensus Constitution was trashed in spirit if not de jure on the day it was passed and the Courts sanctioned its being held in “abeyance” on the dismissal of the Assembly in 1979. Between 1988 & 1999 the National & Provincial assemblies have been dismissed five times at least. Each ruler thinks his dismissal of the Assembly “saved the nation.” Is our nation so weak?
General Musharraf is ill advised if he thinks the plethora of amendments proposed by the NRB can be simply pasted & scissored to the Constitution by means of an “Ordinance” apropos the Supreme Court decision, giving sanction for the present “abeyance” of the Constitution. As far as I can read the Supreme Court sanction in the Zafar Ali Shah case constitutional deviation, if any, is only for the period of the “abeyance”.
Ill advised why? Most of the NRB proposed amendments make good sense. But President Musharraf, a courageous man, should not lack the political courage to have these passed by Parliament; if the amendments do not pass through the needle of Parliament’s wisdom, the amendments will be washed away more sooner than later. This will prove to be a greater setback.
Personally, I am a supporter of the National Security Council (NSC) concept, but with a non-military/executive nominated council majority. Its role should be constrained to matters of the gravest importance. War & peace; approval of our nuclear doctrine; imposition of Emergency; and dismissal of Parliament or Provincial assemblies. And no more. Council decisions by open vote.
To err is human. And even the greatest and the noblest of us are subject to the law of error. But why do our rulers repeat the same error, not once but exactly ten times since 1953? Do we suffer from amnesia? Power will corrupt anyone and is best checked by following the rules of civil society.
Did our Quaid make mistakes? M P Bhandara
General Musharraf is ill advised if he thinks the plethora of amendments proposed by the NRB can be simply pasted & scissored to the Constitution by means of an Ordinance
Our love for the Nation’s Father increases as time passes-by. Here is a man whose very name has become eponymous for integrity, honesty, dedication and straight talk; even his worst enemies would not deny him these qualities. As we read his speeches more than half a century later particularly his inaugural of 11 August 1947, one has a better measure of his wisdom. He was a reticent man; his words were spare and they will echo for ever in the corridor of our history.
But, as a human, he was subject to the same laws of frailty, as any one else. He was mortally ill, perhaps, after December 1947. He was by then 72 years old. His word was law by the unanimous consent of his people who he led to victory, self-respect and statehood. Yet, the measure of this great man would not be complete without taking into consideration two crucial mistakes or misjudgments after he assumed the office of the first Governor General of Pakistan.
Our political leaders seldom, if ever, write their memoirs. An exception to this rule is the Oxford educated Barrister, proud Pakhtun, Aslam Khattak, who has served his country as a bureaucrat, Ambassador extra-ordinary, Governor & senior Federal Minister. I have the good fortune of currently reading his unpublished memoirs, which commence with a fascinating insight into British rule in the Frontier and move onto the early days of Pakistan.
I record below an event, which I had no knowledge of, for it has cast long shadows in our political history. I quote from Mr. Aslam Khattak’s memoirs with his permission: -
“At my meeting with the Governor (Sir George Cunningham), I had asked him “Sir, what about our Ministry?” He said, “Aslam! Can you keep a secret?” I said, “ I hope so, Sir.” He said, “the Quaid-e-Azam is drafting a law as soon as that is done he will dismiss the Ministry.” I said, “sir, but they have the majority in the Assembly. Would such a step not be a negation of Democracy particularly when Doctor Khan Sahib and his cabinet have taken oath of loyalty to Pakistan?” He kept silent for a minute or so and then said this was the Quaid-e-Azam’s wish. It is he who lays the law of the land now. I said, “surely, sir, this would be a bad precedent for our future and you could have at least told him what you thought about such a decision. With his famous Chinese like grin (Sir George did have a very distant look like a Chinese) he said, “Aslam, learn one lesson; and that is that one does not argue with the Quaid-e-Azam.”
It may be said in the Quaid’s defense that the brothers, Ghaffar Khan and Dr. Khan Sahib, were before partition not only bitter opponents of Pakistan, but also there was a personal edge to the animosity.
But seen in the cool retrospect of time the dismissal of the Frontier assembly by the Quaid after an oath of allegiance to Pakistan was taken by Dr. Khan Sahib was wrong. It became consciously or unconsciously a precedent for Governor General Ghulam Mohammad’s dismissal of the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan in 1953. And thereafter there have been domino dismissals of popularly elected assemblies, falling like ninepins.
By 21 March 1948, the Quaid was a very sick man. He had less than six months to live. Notwithstanding, he undertook a visit to Dhaka, which totally exhausted him. In his last major public speech before a crowd of over 300,000 persons in Dhaka maidan he declared: -
“.... Any one who tries to mislead you is really the enemy of Pakistan.
Without one State Language, no Nation can remain tied up solidly together and function. Look at the history of other countries. Therefore, so far as the State Language is concerned, Pakistan’s language shall be URDU... I tell you once again, do not fall into the trap of those who are the enemies of Pakistan....”
The crowd went sullen on hearing these words. After all Bengali was the mother tongue of the then Pakistan’s majority. Urdu certainly was the cultural expression of Muslim India, but to inflict an alien language on a people, as we well know, is fraught with the gravest danger. The seed for East Pakistan’s alienation was thus planted. I am unable to discover if this speech was preplanned or extempore; I suspect it was the latter.
The greatness of a man can also be measured by the depth of his mistakes. The hagiography industry of the 20th century has tried to create immortals out of mere mortals. Our Quaid undoubtedly belongs to the ranks of some of the greatest leaders of the last century, to name a few: Lenin, Stalin, Churchill, Roosevelt, Gandhi and Mao Ze Dong. There is no harm in attempting a critical assessment of our heroes — and the Quaid is certainly mine — to appreciate them in truer perspective.
Is there any relevance of these past events to current issues? Yes, there is. All dismissals of popularly elected assemblies right from 1947 are now seen in retrospect as grave mistakes. The dismissal of the 1953 Constituent Assembly distorted our nascent political evolution almost without doubt. The 1958 dismissal of the National Assembly and the abrogation of the Constitution of 1956 — the only genuine compromise between the two wings of the country — sealed the fate of East Pakistan. The 1962 Constitution was eventually uprooted by its creator and the Assembly dissolved in 1969. The 1973 consensus Constitution was trashed in spirit if not de jure on the day it was passed and the Courts sanctioned its being held in “abeyance” on the dismissal of the Assembly in 1979. Between 1988 & 1999 the National & Provincial assemblies have been dismissed five times at least. Each ruler thinks his dismissal of the Assembly “saved the nation.” Is our nation so weak?
General Musharraf is ill advised if he thinks the plethora of amendments proposed by the NRB can be simply pasted & scissored to the Constitution by means of an “Ordinance” apropos the Supreme Court decision, giving sanction for the present “abeyance” of the Constitution. As far as I can read the Supreme Court sanction in the Zafar Ali Shah case constitutional deviation, if any, is only for the period of the “abeyance”.
Ill advised why? Most of the NRB proposed amendments make good sense. But President Musharraf, a courageous man, should not lack the political courage to have these passed by Parliament; if the amendments do not pass through the needle of Parliament’s wisdom, the amendments will be washed away more sooner than later. This will prove to be a greater setback.
Personally, I am a supporter of the National Security Council (NSC) concept, but with a non-military/executive nominated council majority. Its role should be constrained to matters of the gravest importance. War & peace; approval of our nuclear doctrine; imposition of Emergency; and dismissal of Parliament or Provincial assemblies. And no more. Council decisions by open vote.
To err is human. And even the greatest and the noblest of us are subject to the law of error. But why do our rulers repeat the same error, not once but exactly ten times since 1953? Do we suffer from amnesia? Power will corrupt anyone and is best checked by following the rules of civil society.
#187 Posted by Layman on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
ylh #166:
``I am sure he was a great man.. but can anyone explain how old Mr.Kant was when he started working for the freedom movement ... 12?? to become the `Stalwart` that is..? since he was only 20 when the British finally left?``
The following is a quote from the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4470471,00.html
``Kant was born into a family immersed in the freedom movement, led by Mahatma Gandhi, and thus in politics. After independence, his father served as Congress MP, one of several roles Kant was to take over later.
``Kant`s own political baptism was imprisonment during the 1942 Quit India movement, when he was only 15. He later went to Banaras Hindu University, where he took a degree in chemical engineering and briefly served in the government-sponsored council for scientific and industrial research. But politics was in his blood; he joined the Congress party and formed a group to interest party men in promoting science, a subject close to Jawaharlal Nehru`s heart.``
As others have said, there are freedom-fighters in every district of India, those alive today would have been in their teens or twenties when they went to jail in the 1940s.
Of course I dont expect you to understand this, given that your country won its freedom through Jinnah`s type-writer.
``I am sure he was a great man.. but can anyone explain how old Mr.Kant was when he started working for the freedom movement ... 12?? to become the `Stalwart` that is..? since he was only 20 when the British finally left?``
The following is a quote from the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4470471,00.html
``Kant was born into a family immersed in the freedom movement, led by Mahatma Gandhi, and thus in politics. After independence, his father served as Congress MP, one of several roles Kant was to take over later.
``Kant`s own political baptism was imprisonment during the 1942 Quit India movement, when he was only 15. He later went to Banaras Hindu University, where he took a degree in chemical engineering and briefly served in the government-sponsored council for scientific and industrial research. But politics was in his blood; he joined the Congress party and formed a group to interest party men in promoting science, a subject close to Jawaharlal Nehru`s heart.``
As others have said, there are freedom-fighters in every district of India, those alive today would have been in their teens or twenties when they went to jail in the 1940s.
Of course I dont expect you to understand this, given that your country won its freedom through Jinnah`s type-writer.
#186 Posted by ylh on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
Umer Bhai,
Please don`t bother with Mr.Harimau... this senile uncle was `educated in the time of Nehru` and everything he knows is the `Word of God and Gospel`...
You see... one just can`t fight against claimants of divine will...
Please don`t bother with Mr.Harimau... this senile uncle was `educated in the time of Nehru` and everything he knows is the `Word of God and Gospel`...
You see... one just can`t fight against claimants of divine will...
#185 Posted by ylh on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
Dearest P-Mishra,
``What is your point? Do you seriously think there is any connection between the democratic nation of Israel and the thuggish republic of Pakistan?``
To answer your question more specifically, I don`t think I have the patience... cuz anyone who can`t see anything wrong with Sumit Ganguly`s claim (I took the pin out of the grenade to make it safe) is really not very bright is he/she?
However allow me to say that the `connection` was not between Pakistan or Israel, but between the `Two Nation Theory` which is the source of your personal hatred for Pakistan, and the `Bi National principle= two state solution` which is the basis your loveable `Democratic Nation of Israel.`
Nevertheless.. I am sure you are right about the connection between Pakistan and Israel... after all what does the `Jeffe Institute of Strategic studies` Telaviv know? They are only living in Israel. This Jeffe`s Institute of Strategic Studies ISRAEL`s paper on `Pakistan and Israel`...
Beyond the Veil: Pakistan and Israel:
http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:uIFVW63cLfcC:www.tau.ac.il/jcss/memoranda/memo55.pdf+Pakistan+and+Israel+clandestine+relations&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
If that doesn`t work ... try this:
www.tau.ac.il/jcss/memoranda/memo55.pdf
Now... I really apologize if my quoting the papers of Jeffe Institute of Strategic studies amounts to Blasphemy for some Indians here...
-YLH
PS : P-Mishra, can I expect more personal insults from you? If so spare them... There is no point in talking to me if you can`t talk on facts.. and given that even a favorable view of Pakistan or Jinnah (Divine-Comedy Post) with absolutely no reference to Gandhi or India can offend you... won`t you say it is fair to call you a Bigot?
``What is your point? Do you seriously think there is any connection between the democratic nation of Israel and the thuggish republic of Pakistan?``
To answer your question more specifically, I don`t think I have the patience... cuz anyone who can`t see anything wrong with Sumit Ganguly`s claim (I took the pin out of the grenade to make it safe) is really not very bright is he/she?
However allow me to say that the `connection` was not between Pakistan or Israel, but between the `Two Nation Theory` which is the source of your personal hatred for Pakistan, and the `Bi National principle= two state solution` which is the basis your loveable `Democratic Nation of Israel.`
Nevertheless.. I am sure you are right about the connection between Pakistan and Israel... after all what does the `Jeffe Institute of Strategic studies` Telaviv know? They are only living in Israel. This Jeffe`s Institute of Strategic Studies ISRAEL`s paper on `Pakistan and Israel`...
Beyond the Veil: Pakistan and Israel:
http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:uIFVW63cLfcC:www.tau.ac.il/jcss/memoranda/memo55.pdf+Pakistan+and+Israel+clandestine+relations&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
If that doesn`t work ... try this:
www.tau.ac.il/jcss/memoranda/memo55.pdf
Now... I really apologize if my quoting the papers of Jeffe Institute of Strategic studies amounts to Blasphemy for some Indians here...
-YLH
PS : P-Mishra, can I expect more personal insults from you? If so spare them... There is no point in talking to me if you can`t talk on facts.. and given that even a favorable view of Pakistan or Jinnah (Divine-Comedy Post) with absolutely no reference to Gandhi or India can offend you... won`t you say it is fair to call you a Bigot?
#184 Posted by ylh on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
Dear Arjunm,
Has it occured to you why exactly you decided to attack me personally and lie about me, when I hadn`t said so much as a word against you... Has it occured you that why I, who returned to this board, after such an absence became a target of your misdirected wrath?
Is it really a crime to love one`s country, to be proud of it, and to call out people like Ganguly for what they are? Please tell me what else am I supposed to say about someone who claims to have taken `the pin out of the grenade to make it safe`? Won`t you call such a person a liar? and an obnoxious bigoted one at that ... for he is lying on the National Public Radio...
Please show me one instance where I have attacked someone simply for loving India? I always appreciated those who are patriotic to their country (which ever one) and really want to do well for it... It is amazing how I have managed to incur the wrath of you people just for my own beliefs and convictions... P-Mishra hates me because I don`t like Gandhi... You hate me because I admire Jinnah.. Rsaxena hates me because I am a Pakistani...
If `Divine-Comedy` wishes to put up a series of favorable comments about Jinnah from a website.. You object because `its some dude on a website`.. if someone quotes Wolpert, Hodson, RajMohan Gandhi, or Bernard Lewis on Jinnah... you say `so what... the common people don`t know about Jinnah`... so whats the standard? Why do you keep asking about the Movie... Haven`t I given you the Block buster website and Movie list atleast 10 times... ? Is it my fault that a certain group of thugs amongst Pakistanis decided to shelf the movie for their own reasons ? Coming to Divine Comedy (me) ... where in that post is there anything against India or Gandhi?
You people just attack for the sake of attacking.. what do you achieve? What deep rooted inferiority/superiority complex did calling me `Deported paki` fulfil? Had I not said since 1999 that I will leave the US once I am done with my studies? I didn`t fall out of status one day.. I was meticuluous in my legal requirement. My visa doesn`t expire till October... so if a bunch of illegal Pakistani aliens are deported from US does it mean everyone returning to his or her own country is a `deportee`...? Could it not be that some of us just came back because they wanted to be with their parents who are growing old? Or some of us sincerely thought that they could make a difference here in Pakistan?
You keep asking me if I read the article in the nation... so what can I do if Musharraf said this?
Are you going to hold me accountable for what Zia did in the 1980s? is it even your place? Besides Musharraf said a variety of different things to Variety of different magazines.. to Newsweek he said `i want to make a Modern secular state`... Does it mean Musharraf is a Hypocrite or a liar? Perhaps. Does it change my love for Pakistan? No.
You keep repeating the same old same old, about my father offering me a job etc etc... I have explained before and I have explained again in my previous post what I meant by it...
You are no exception. It seems that Indians have a problem with any Pakistani who wants his country to succeed or who can argue on facts. Take P-Mishra for instance... thinking he was Pankaj Mishra the famous writer, I treated him with the utmost respect... but then he showed me his ugly side... and for what ..Bipan Chandra, an indian writer, had called Jinnah one of the ten greatest Indians ... he had also said that Jinnah had organized the League after 1937 around an extreme ideology. But when I quoted him quite accurately as saying that Jinnah was one of the greatest Indians and gave the link with it, Mr.Mishra announced that I had somehow misled everyone... its amazing what a strawman fallacy can do...
Amazingly Mr.Mishra is such a master at this game, that when in response to his constant attacks on the Two Nation theory I point out that his favorite Israel was formed on the basis of `Bi-National principle: Two state solution`, he attacks Pakistan for not being perfect... and accuses me of trying to compare Pakistan with Israel... its amazing, because it is not I who is comparing Pakistan with Israel... it was the founding fathers of Israel who had presented the creation of Pakistan as a precedent in the UN in 1948.... My source of information is an Indian professor from Tel Aviv University. Please be aware... I have no desire to compare Pakistan with anything.. Pakistan is Pakistan...
As a matter of fact let me explicitly declare this the 100th time...
FOR THOSE WHO TAKE UMBRAGE OF COMPARISON BETWEEN LOWLY PAKISTAN AND THAT GREAT JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL... I WANT TO SET YOUR FEARS TO REST...
I for one have no Desire in comparing Pakistan to Israel... it was the founding fathers of Israel who had quoted the creation of Pakistan as a precedent for Israel.
Sincerely
Yasser Latif Hamdani
Has it occured to you why exactly you decided to attack me personally and lie about me, when I hadn`t said so much as a word against you... Has it occured you that why I, who returned to this board, after such an absence became a target of your misdirected wrath?
Is it really a crime to love one`s country, to be proud of it, and to call out people like Ganguly for what they are? Please tell me what else am I supposed to say about someone who claims to have taken `the pin out of the grenade to make it safe`? Won`t you call such a person a liar? and an obnoxious bigoted one at that ... for he is lying on the National Public Radio...
Please show me one instance where I have attacked someone simply for loving India? I always appreciated those who are patriotic to their country (which ever one) and really want to do well for it... It is amazing how I have managed to incur the wrath of you people just for my own beliefs and convictions... P-Mishra hates me because I don`t like Gandhi... You hate me because I admire Jinnah.. Rsaxena hates me because I am a Pakistani...
If `Divine-Comedy` wishes to put up a series of favorable comments about Jinnah from a website.. You object because `its some dude on a website`.. if someone quotes Wolpert, Hodson, RajMohan Gandhi, or Bernard Lewis on Jinnah... you say `so what... the common people don`t know about Jinnah`... so whats the standard? Why do you keep asking about the Movie... Haven`t I given you the Block buster website and Movie list atleast 10 times... ? Is it my fault that a certain group of thugs amongst Pakistanis decided to shelf the movie for their own reasons ? Coming to Divine Comedy (me) ... where in that post is there anything against India or Gandhi?
You people just attack for the sake of attacking.. what do you achieve? What deep rooted inferiority/superiority complex did calling me `Deported paki` fulfil? Had I not said since 1999 that I will leave the US once I am done with my studies? I didn`t fall out of status one day.. I was meticuluous in my legal requirement. My visa doesn`t expire till October... so if a bunch of illegal Pakistani aliens are deported from US does it mean everyone returning to his or her own country is a `deportee`...? Could it not be that some of us just came back because they wanted to be with their parents who are growing old? Or some of us sincerely thought that they could make a difference here in Pakistan?
You keep asking me if I read the article in the nation... so what can I do if Musharraf said this?
Are you going to hold me accountable for what Zia did in the 1980s? is it even your place? Besides Musharraf said a variety of different things to Variety of different magazines.. to Newsweek he said `i want to make a Modern secular state`... Does it mean Musharraf is a Hypocrite or a liar? Perhaps. Does it change my love for Pakistan? No.
You keep repeating the same old same old, about my father offering me a job etc etc... I have explained before and I have explained again in my previous post what I meant by it...
You are no exception. It seems that Indians have a problem with any Pakistani who wants his country to succeed or who can argue on facts. Take P-Mishra for instance... thinking he was Pankaj Mishra the famous writer, I treated him with the utmost respect... but then he showed me his ugly side... and for what ..Bipan Chandra, an indian writer, had called Jinnah one of the ten greatest Indians ... he had also said that Jinnah had organized the League after 1937 around an extreme ideology. But when I quoted him quite accurately as saying that Jinnah was one of the greatest Indians and gave the link with it, Mr.Mishra announced that I had somehow misled everyone... its amazing what a strawman fallacy can do...
Amazingly Mr.Mishra is such a master at this game, that when in response to his constant attacks on the Two Nation theory I point out that his favorite Israel was formed on the basis of `Bi-National principle: Two state solution`, he attacks Pakistan for not being perfect... and accuses me of trying to compare Pakistan with Israel... its amazing, because it is not I who is comparing Pakistan with Israel... it was the founding fathers of Israel who had presented the creation of Pakistan as a precedent in the UN in 1948.... My source of information is an Indian professor from Tel Aviv University. Please be aware... I have no desire to compare Pakistan with anything.. Pakistan is Pakistan...
As a matter of fact let me explicitly declare this the 100th time...
FOR THOSE WHO TAKE UMBRAGE OF COMPARISON BETWEEN LOWLY PAKISTAN AND THAT GREAT JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL... I WANT TO SET YOUR FEARS TO REST...
I for one have no Desire in comparing Pakistan to Israel... it was the founding fathers of Israel who had quoted the creation of Pakistan as a precedent for Israel.
Sincerely
Yasser Latif Hamdani
#183 Posted by shankar on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
saxena,
{{luckily, unlike shankar i`ve been paying my taxes and can prove my identity...}}
hey! its nice to know you give a recepit to your customers, everytime you sell a pretzel!
{{luckily, unlike shankar i`ve been paying my taxes and can prove my identity...}}
hey! its nice to know you give a recepit to your customers, everytime you sell a pretzel!
#182 Posted by ylh on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
A bit of News: Gary Ackerman, a well known anti Pakistan congressmen and known for his extremely pro-India stance, recently told the US President that Pakistan is a Moderate country where no Islamic Parties have ever won elections.. and that its citizens want a modern democratic and progressive state... I believe his exact words were `Whoever says Musharraf`s replacement will be worse hasn`t read Pakistan`s History. No Islamic Party has ever won any elections in Pakistan. The Pakistani People want a Moderate democratic state`.
Maybe we bought him too? What say you oh great P-mishra...
Ladies and gentlemen,
Much mockery has been made of my comment about my father offering me a job... as a background let me explain to those non-cynical people who are actually interested in not making a mockery. My father`s business is the leasing of Vehicles (heavy and light)... to both privately and publicly owned firms...
My father`s business had suffered huge blows since the ill advised 1998 nuclear tests... So to supplement that he would have asked me to work in a multinational.. but he didn`t. The demand is unusually high which indicates high CONSUMER SPENDING... perhaps the IVY LEAGUERERS like Mr. Saxena and Arjunm can`t really discern that logic... but that is how Economics works.. Perhaps it would help to realize that consumer goods often become the base for Economic indicators... for example (and this is an example only) `INFLATION` index is set according to basket of daily goods like soap and ata etc...
If a `technical evaluation` is what Mr.Saxena and his likes want (though it is a known fact that technical evaluation is based on a Macro assessment of Micro factors like the one I MENTIONED, or do they not teach that in IVY LEAGUE schools) ... Pakistan`s Forex reserves are above 6 billion, the Dollar has steadied at 59/60 to the Rupee which means a consistent gain of ground for the Pakistan rupee... infact had it not been for the selling of dollars by the state bank (done to preserve the EXPORTS) The dollar would have gone to 55 ... which is a huge gain for the Pak-Rupee which was at 67 a year ago...
The annual growth rate was steady at 3.6 (as opposed to 3.3 forecasted) jumping up from the all time low of 2. something last year... Projected Growth rate is at 4.6... though it is not like our all time high which was close to 7, it shows a long term growth...
You can see this actually taking place on ground the way my father`s business is booming again.. but that sadly will be lost on those who suffer from iodine deficiency.
-YLH
Maybe we bought him too? What say you oh great P-mishra...
Ladies and gentlemen,
Much mockery has been made of my comment about my father offering me a job... as a background let me explain to those non-cynical people who are actually interested in not making a mockery. My father`s business is the leasing of Vehicles (heavy and light)... to both privately and publicly owned firms...
My father`s business had suffered huge blows since the ill advised 1998 nuclear tests... So to supplement that he would have asked me to work in a multinational.. but he didn`t. The demand is unusually high which indicates high CONSUMER SPENDING... perhaps the IVY LEAGUERERS like Mr. Saxena and Arjunm can`t really discern that logic... but that is how Economics works.. Perhaps it would help to realize that consumer goods often become the base for Economic indicators... for example (and this is an example only) `INFLATION` index is set according to basket of daily goods like soap and ata etc...
If a `technical evaluation` is what Mr.Saxena and his likes want (though it is a known fact that technical evaluation is based on a Macro assessment of Micro factors like the one I MENTIONED, or do they not teach that in IVY LEAGUE schools) ... Pakistan`s Forex reserves are above 6 billion, the Dollar has steadied at 59/60 to the Rupee which means a consistent gain of ground for the Pakistan rupee... infact had it not been for the selling of dollars by the state bank (done to preserve the EXPORTS) The dollar would have gone to 55 ... which is a huge gain for the Pak-Rupee which was at 67 a year ago...
The annual growth rate was steady at 3.6 (as opposed to 3.3 forecasted) jumping up from the all time low of 2. something last year... Projected Growth rate is at 4.6... though it is not like our all time high which was close to 7, it shows a long term growth...
You can see this actually taking place on ground the way my father`s business is booming again.. but that sadly will be lost on those who suffer from iodine deficiency.
-YLH
#181 Posted by krashid on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
ylh#
Yes I have seen that interview of Sumit Ganguly.
He seems to be a very Badbudar covered by perfume.
You can smell that Badbu even behind T.V. screen.
Yes I have seen that interview of Sumit Ganguly.
He seems to be a very Badbudar covered by perfume.
You can smell that Badbu even behind T.V. screen.
#180 Posted by ylh on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
Once again for the `Feeble Minded` perplexed chowkies:
The man of integrity and honesty Sumit Ganguly said on NPR: `I TOOK THE PIN OUT OF THE GRENADE TO MAKE IT SAFE`
Ah poor P-Mishra...
I knew you were uneducated, but now I know you are a soft in the head as well ... anyone who has seen any `American War Movie` or any cheap Indian copy of an American War Movie knows that once you take the PIN out of the Grenade ... IT BLOWS UP.
Mr. Sumit Ganguly claimed that `I took the pin out to make it safe`... Think, or is it alien to Indians? If you still can`t understand how apparent Mr.Ganguly`s lie was... I can only pity you...
I am not going to respond to your `dhimmi` nonsense .. whereas Pakistan is not perfect, only an idiot from across the border would make such a claim... The Point my dear idiot was that people like you have spent so much time deconstructing the two nation theory... but you fail to realize that the Zionist Principle : The Bi-National principle = two state solution... is behind the creation of Israel... Infact as a well known Indian scholar wrote for the Tel Aviv University that the Zionists presented Pakistan as a precedent for the creation of Israel...
Now this is completely unconnected to what you think of Pakistan, because I am not talking about what Pakistan is or isn`t but your own obsession with debunking the already obselete two nation theory. Neither you nor your other unsophisticated friend Mr.Saxena can grasp such a simple point... oh I forgot.. you actually need an IQ to grasp something...
By the way you still haven`t answered the question: How has the author castigated Israel?
Or maybe this is keeping in a longline of baseless accusations that you level against other people (like the one against me earlier)
Rsaxena,
Do you really think any thing you think I said can even hold a candle to tremendously luminous stupidity that you and some of your countrymen (P-Mishra and Jay) possess???
Let me remind you of your (and Jay`s) own claim that Latitudes determine `Daylight savings time` and hence a Pakistan a geographically thin country can never have DST.... remember Bina`s article??
Or P-Mishra`s latest and most outrageous claim that there is nothing wrong with Mr.Ganguly`s integrity if he says : I TOOK THE PIN OUT OF THE GRENADE TO MAKE IT SAFE...
tsk tsk ...
Sadna,
I asked a simple question... you could have done with a simple answer... but I still find it amazing that the British put up statues of known dissidents and freedom fighters like the one true God `Mahatma` Gandhi in public squares... during the 1930s and 1940s, while the Mahatma was doing hard labor in his horrible jail at the Agha Khan palace.
In any event, why will you actually write more about Gujurat, then obsessing about Pakistan?
And about the late and great Dr.Kant... tell me something... are all `followers of Gandhi` big proponents of Nuclear weapons?
Dear ArjunM...
Good News! I just got 5 years multiple visit visas for the United states of America and United Kingdom... not bad for a `deported Paki` is it? Its amazing when I was in the US people like you kept claiming that I had no intention of returning to Pakistan... and when I finally did out of my own conviction, (and also because my F1 Visa was about to expire in October) I am `deported`... You Indians do wish a lot don`t you?
I appreciate your repeated concern for the release of the movie on DVD... owing to its controversial status it was delayed despite the fact that Block Buster had ordered it as early as 1999...
Please search Block Buster website:
http://www.blockbuster.com for `Jinnah`...
Try clicking on this link
http://www.blockbuster.com/bb/movie/details/0,7286,VID-V+++174178,00.html?
And you will find the details...
And this the 10th time you are repeating your questions, and the 10th time I am answering you...
Perhaps you will read it this time... I hope...
-YLH
The man of integrity and honesty Sumit Ganguly said on NPR: `I TOOK THE PIN OUT OF THE GRENADE TO MAKE IT SAFE`
Ah poor P-Mishra...
I knew you were uneducated, but now I know you are a soft in the head as well ... anyone who has seen any `American War Movie` or any cheap Indian copy of an American War Movie knows that once you take the PIN out of the Grenade ... IT BLOWS UP.
Mr. Sumit Ganguly claimed that `I took the pin out to make it safe`... Think, or is it alien to Indians? If you still can`t understand how apparent Mr.Ganguly`s lie was... I can only pity you...
I am not going to respond to your `dhimmi` nonsense .. whereas Pakistan is not perfect, only an idiot from across the border would make such a claim... The Point my dear idiot was that people like you have spent so much time deconstructing the two nation theory... but you fail to realize that the Zionist Principle : The Bi-National principle = two state solution... is behind the creation of Israel... Infact as a well known Indian scholar wrote for the Tel Aviv University that the Zionists presented Pakistan as a precedent for the creation of Israel...
Now this is completely unconnected to what you think of Pakistan, because I am not talking about what Pakistan is or isn`t but your own obsession with debunking the already obselete two nation theory. Neither you nor your other unsophisticated friend Mr.Saxena can grasp such a simple point... oh I forgot.. you actually need an IQ to grasp something...
By the way you still haven`t answered the question: How has the author castigated Israel?
Or maybe this is keeping in a longline of baseless accusations that you level against other people (like the one against me earlier)
Rsaxena,
Do you really think any thing you think I said can even hold a candle to tremendously luminous stupidity that you and some of your countrymen (P-Mishra and Jay) possess???
Let me remind you of your (and Jay`s) own claim that Latitudes determine `Daylight savings time` and hence a Pakistan a geographically thin country can never have DST.... remember Bina`s article??
Or P-Mishra`s latest and most outrageous claim that there is nothing wrong with Mr.Ganguly`s integrity if he says : I TOOK THE PIN OUT OF THE GRENADE TO MAKE IT SAFE...
tsk tsk ...
Sadna,
I asked a simple question... you could have done with a simple answer... but I still find it amazing that the British put up statues of known dissidents and freedom fighters like the one true God `Mahatma` Gandhi in public squares... during the 1930s and 1940s, while the Mahatma was doing hard labor in his horrible jail at the Agha Khan palace.
In any event, why will you actually write more about Gujurat, then obsessing about Pakistan?
And about the late and great Dr.Kant... tell me something... are all `followers of Gandhi` big proponents of Nuclear weapons?
Dear ArjunM...
Good News! I just got 5 years multiple visit visas for the United states of America and United Kingdom... not bad for a `deported Paki` is it? Its amazing when I was in the US people like you kept claiming that I had no intention of returning to Pakistan... and when I finally did out of my own conviction, (and also because my F1 Visa was about to expire in October) I am `deported`... You Indians do wish a lot don`t you?
I appreciate your repeated concern for the release of the movie on DVD... owing to its controversial status it was delayed despite the fact that Block Buster had ordered it as early as 1999...
Please search Block Buster website:
http://www.blockbuster.com for `Jinnah`...
Try clicking on this link
http://www.blockbuster.com/bb/movie/details/0,7286,VID-V+++174178,00.html?
And you will find the details...
And this the 10th time you are repeating your questions, and the 10th time I am answering you...
Perhaps you will read it this time... I hope...
-YLH
#179 Posted by krashid on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
TAhned#
Your statement on Sattar 2.
If he is not non-Muslim. He is Muslim.
There is no third option.
What is your minimum definition of Muslim.
Can I tell you that I am a prophet after prophet Muhammed PBUH.(Naoozobillah). Would you consider me a Muslim.
There are no two verdicts on this matter.
Your statement on Sattar 2.
If he is not non-Muslim. He is Muslim.
There is no third option.
What is your minimum definition of Muslim.
Can I tell you that I am a prophet after prophet Muhammed PBUH.(Naoozobillah). Would you consider me a Muslim.
There are no two verdicts on this matter.
#178 Posted by krashid on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
Welcome my friend YLH.
I came to know about your going back to Pakistan through this interacts.
May God succed you there. And there might be some good for you in this.
The interview of Aisha Sarwari with Christopher Lee is inciting me watch the film Jinnah.
Although I don`t agree with you on Gandhi. But his birth place is witnessing the worst form of communal violence. So far his legacy.
But I am in total agreement with you about Jinnah.
He single handedly with sheer will made possible the creation of Pakistan. There would be no Pakistan without Jinnah to put it simply.
I came to know about your going back to Pakistan through this interacts.
May God succed you there. And there might be some good for you in this.
The interview of Aisha Sarwari with Christopher Lee is inciting me watch the film Jinnah.
Although I don`t agree with you on Gandhi. But his birth place is witnessing the worst form of communal violence. So far his legacy.
But I am in total agreement with you about Jinnah.
He single handedly with sheer will made possible the creation of Pakistan. There would be no Pakistan without Jinnah to put it simply.
#177 Posted by harimau on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
Ref anNy #: 159
[Secondly meri pyaari behen, Pakistan is a living breathing country where people sleep, eat, bake brownies, plant flowers, fall in love, have cute babies with curly hair, give exams, dance, scream at the babies, grow and cook bhindi, cry, read books and sometimes burn those brownies- nobody can change that...]
And murder the Queen`s English!
Give exams? GIVE exams? Hello! The only ones to GIVE exams are the teachers and the students TAKE exams.
I thought GIVING exams was limited to North Indians to whom every language (including Hindi) is a second language and so they have difficulty with English. It has since been picked up by all those Madras IIT graduates who think speaking broken English like North Indians is cute (it isn`t; it merely shows your ignorance).
PS. Meri pyaari behen, you can send me some of those brownies you bake... so long as they aren`t burnt!
;)
[Secondly meri pyaari behen, Pakistan is a living breathing country where people sleep, eat, bake brownies, plant flowers, fall in love, have cute babies with curly hair, give exams, dance, scream at the babies, grow and cook bhindi, cry, read books and sometimes burn those brownies- nobody can change that...]
And murder the Queen`s English!
Give exams? GIVE exams? Hello! The only ones to GIVE exams are the teachers and the students TAKE exams.
I thought GIVING exams was limited to North Indians to whom every language (including Hindi) is a second language and so they have difficulty with English. It has since been picked up by all those Madras IIT graduates who think speaking broken English like North Indians is cute (it isn`t; it merely shows your ignorance).
PS. Meri pyaari behen, you can send me some of those brownies you bake... so long as they aren`t burnt!
;)
#176 Posted by harimau on July 31, 2002 10:25:25 am
Yasser, dear boy, whatever happened to you? Good to know that you haven`t traded in your Rutgers diploma for one from the local madrassah.
Guess what? I was reading the New Straits Times (this being the national newspaper of Malaysia) the other day and the front page news was that 120 women were arrested and fined between M$50 and M$100 for not wearing a scarf.
I remember distinctly you saying that you want Pakistan to become like Malaysia or Turkey.
How about becoming a turkey LIKE Malaysia?
You can take Islam out of Arabia but you can`t take the burqa out of Islam.
Guess what? I was reading the New Straits Times (this being the national newspaper of Malaysia) the other day and the front page news was that 120 women were arrested and fined between M$50 and M$100 for not wearing a scarf.
I remember distinctly you saying that you want Pakistan to become like Malaysia or Turkey.
How about becoming a turkey LIKE Malaysia?
You can take Islam out of Arabia but you can`t take the burqa out of Islam.
#174 Posted by rsaxena on July 29, 2002 4:33:30 pm
re: DRUMZ
{I am not a citizen of any of those countries and do not limit myself to red linez on a map.}
...since i lost my passport, i`ve been stateless too...luckily, unlike shankar i`ve been paying my taxes and can prove my identity...in any case, our genetic roots are in that gutter called south asia...i suppose those can be diluted in the future, but dude, we`re stuck...
{I am not a citizen of any of those countries and do not limit myself to red linez on a map.}
...since i lost my passport, i`ve been stateless too...luckily, unlike shankar i`ve been paying my taxes and can prove my identity...in any case, our genetic roots are in that gutter called south asia...i suppose those can be diluted in the future, but dude, we`re stuck...
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